(Topic ID: 356248)

Wow - Stern and Distributors in FULL PANIC mode with John Wick.

By delt31

68 days ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 3,166 posts
  • 425 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 17 days ago by Whistles
  • Topic is favorited by 58 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

yel (resized).jpg
IMG_1196 (resized).jpeg
IMG_1195 (resized).jpeg
pasted_image (resized).png
B708A0DF-B6A8-498C-9CB2-3FE213D9D5A7.gif
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
20240531_115711 (resized).jpg
IMG_1165 (resized).png
Screen Shot 2024-06-27 at 12.19.23 PM (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).png
IMG_1160 (resized).png
IMG_1159 (resized).png
IMG_1161 (resized).png

This topic is closed.

There are 3,166 posts in this topic. You are on page 23 of 64.
#1101 55 days ago
Quoted from Deez:

I like the idea as well as it gives them skin in the game to keep the quarters flowing. It might cause heartache for the home crowd as they will inevitably be subsidizing the location games.

They have spent and are spending a shit load of $$$ on IC.

They are gathering data and trying to figure out the different ways they can monetize it.

Every other successful company in the country has a subscription based model.

The amount of $$$ people blow to mod their games? IC subs will be a pittance by comparison.

#1102 55 days ago
Quoted from Medisinyl:

Lots of freshly printed cards cannot get a 10. Many cards fresh out of packs will just get an 8.
Has to be perfectly centered, flawless print beyond what most would notice, etc. to get a 10.
Multiple flaws in the reject cycling idea, and would devalue all of them of course.

PSA Graded Pinball Machine coming up next

#1103 55 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

They have spent and are spending a shit load of $$$ on IC.
They are gathering data and trying to figure out the different ways they can monetize it.
Every other successful company in the country has a subscription based model.
The amount of $$$ people blow to mod their games? IC subs will be a pittance by comparison.

Yup, IC (ie, recurring revenue) is the future. It's also why it wouldn't surprise me if they relaunch some of their popular older pins but upgraded to support IC.

#1104 55 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

What I truly want to know is where all the fucking money is coming from. The spending doesn't match the average wage numbers they keep producing. Groceries are up. Fuel is up. Interest rates are up. Debt at an all time high. Cars are insanely priced.
Yet here we are... Everything is still selling. My wife and I are professionals and have been managing our money, debt etc. very well and have been waiting for a slow down to cash in. What the fuck has to happen, ww3?

To an extent it's Boomers who have the $$$ to spend once retired. Their mortgages are paid off. Their 401ks are 7 figures plus, and even Social Security helps pays for the hobby, $70k+ per year is pretty typical.

#1105 55 days ago

Bring on Metallica

#1106 55 days ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

What I truly want to know is where all the fucking money is coming from. The spending doesn't match the average wage numbers they keep producing. Groceries are up. Fuel is up. Interest rates are up. Debt at an all time high. Cars are insanely priced.
Yet here we are... Everything is still selling. My wife and I are professionals and have been managing our money, debt etc. very well and have been waiting for a slow down to cash in. What the fuck has to happen, ww3?

"Everything is still selling", exactly where and what? Pins? Cause if anything that doesn't seem to be the case, look at other companies that are no longer selling out of their releases in days. Stern is not blowing out their LEs clearly.

Spending for most people is shifting, folks are spending, but they are being more selective and having to adjust, and cut corners here or there. More and more continue to cut cords on entertainment expenses. Lot of retail sales are down, lot of food industry sectors are down. Travel in many areas is also down. Car sales are also down right now.

For pinball community folks, most I've met are all well off individuals, the few who do play but don't got money basically depend on location play as they really can't afford pins, nor have space. They might have one pin at best, but most of the people i've met locally at tournaments and doing purchases/trades with, they all are pretty well off individuals. Pinball entry points now being around 7k, this is a luxury hobby at these price points.

#1107 55 days ago

Just played a John Wick today. Pro on location. I’m my opinion, it sucked. I love pinball and will give any game a try. But it felt like a dumbed down version of Venom (which I also dislike). Opinions are like a$$holes, we all got one, but there’s just nothing that pops out as original on this game. Just felt thrown together and shots didnt make sense

#1108 54 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

They have spent and are spending a shit load of $$$ on IC.
They are gathering data and trying to figure out the different ways they can monetize it.
Every other successful company in the country has a subscription based model.
The amount of $$$ people blow to mod their games? IC subs will be a pittance by comparison.

Yeah, the survey Stern sent out a few weeks ago was scary stuff. Really made it feel like they are moving to a pay to play model in the very near future…

#1109 54 days ago
Quoted from PinSpinner:

Yeah, the survey Stern sent out a few weeks ago was scary stuff. Really made it feel like they are moving to a pay to play model in the very near future…

They have a pay to play model. $1 for 1 or $2 for 3.

#1110 54 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Bingo. They have to figure out how to monetize that IC and they will.
It’s coming in some form of Big Buck style. Which I like a lot.

They want to subsidize their software department with subscriptions. Which will either give early code access, or special mode access.

I was totally against it at first, but I am starting to warm up to it if there is value. Has to be good value though.

#1111 54 days ago
Quoted from Sluggo39:

Bring on Metallica

Stern’s not dumb, they know the only way to solve the frustration of this thread and the disastrous Wick release is to fast forward to 4:34

#1112 54 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

Show me a couple of movie clips, that show me how funny pokemon is.
Since it's so awesome, that should be easy.

Wut? Nobody is trying to make this point but you. Are you purposely being this disingenuous or are really having this much of an issue understanding the simple to understand point we're making? How many times do I have to explain I'm not very into pokemon? How many younger folks would think whatever old timey stuff you like is dumb?

#1113 54 days ago

What if they port over Metallica to spike 2… bring over the dmd animations but also add in clips from concerts and make some code updates.. plus add songs. Would that be ok?

#1114 54 days ago


Quoted from LIPinballSociety:What if they port over Metallica to spike 2… bring over the dmd animations but also add in clips from concerts and make some code updates.. plus add songs. Would that be ok?

No. The game is perfect as it is. The new version will definitely be the lesser version.

#1116 54 days ago
Quoted from ASAC_Schrader:

I am excited to get John Wick. I got a killer deal on a LE

You still overpaid. But congrats.

#1117 54 days ago

For Pokemon, how haven't we noticed to use Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as a point of comparison? That's in the same ballpark, a cartoon and media and video game franchise mostly aimed at kids but also has a following of adults who grew up with it. TMNT wasn't gangbusters but sold at least decently for Stern. The absolute bottom end projection for Pokemon would be another TMNT, and it could easily do multiples of it.

#1118 54 days ago
Quoted from vikingerik:

For Pokemon, how haven't we noticed to use Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as a point of comparison? That's in the same ballpark, a cartoon and media and video game franchise mostly aimed at kids but also has a following of adults who grew up with it. TMNT wasn't gangbusters but sold at least decently for Stern. The absolute bottom end projection for Pokemon would be another TMNT, and it could easily do multiples of it.

Tmnt is nowhere near as popular as Pokemon in the last 20 years.

You guys are underestimating the popularity of pokemon very hard. I am in Japan currently, the amount of Pokemon shops are insane. The card collectors scene worldwide is big, people buy Charizard cards worth multiple NIB games etc. Pokemon spans all ages, ranging from 7 to 45-ish.

Pokemon retro games quadrupled in value in 10 years. A Gameboy advance title in box goes for $250+, and they are super easy to find. There is just insane demand.

-3
#1119 54 days ago

I went around to 35 yard sales today and saw a bunch of things that don't sell. Pinball is a very niche market quickly being oversaturated. Don't be surprised to see a John Wick or another game in someones driveway for just $100 about 25 years from now. I'm not kidding,old technology or software that is no longer compatible and no one wants to fool with. Thats how it is. Keep that in mind buying a new pinball machine.

#1120 54 days ago

hopeful it will have a card dispenser for Pokemon and player can earn a card for each game played or for a certain threshold. then younger demo would prob play more, esp if its a card per game no matter score. games that give something earns more than games that don't. redemption is king in the amusement world.

#1121 54 days ago
Quoted from vikingerik:

For Pokemon, how haven't we noticed to use Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as a point of comparison? That's in the same ballpark, a cartoon and media and video game franchise mostly aimed at kids but also has a following of adults who grew up with it. TMNT wasn't gangbusters but sold at least decently for Stern. The absolute bottom end projection for Pokemon would be another TMNT, and it could easily do multiples of it.

tmnt is no where near the current relevancy of pokemon. if you operated redemption, place tmnt merch vs poke merch in various games and see which earns better. i have at various locations. the answer is pokemon by a mile. in a few of my machines i rubber banded poke 3 card sample packs to plush or other prizes and the games earn more than double per the norm now.

-10
#1122 54 days ago
Quoted from CapeCodPin:

To an extent it's Boomers who have the $$$ to spend once retired. Their mortgages are paid off. Their 401ks are 7 figures plus, and even Social Security helps pays for the hobby, $70k+ per year is pretty typical.

Boomers are to old for 401ks, they have pensions

#1123 54 days ago
Quoted from Viggin900:

I went around to 35 yard sales today and saw a bunch of things that don't sell. Pinball is a very niche market quickly being oversaturated. Don't be surprised to see a John Wick or another game in someones driveway for just $100 about 25 years from now. I'm not kidding,old technology or software that is no longer compatible and no one wants to fool with. Thats how it is. Keep that in mind buying a new pinball machine.

25 years from now $100 won't buy lunch.

#1124 54 days ago
Quoted from PinCheese:

Boomers are to old for 401ks, they have pensions

…but “Boomer” means anybody over the age of 35 nowadays, right?

#1125 54 days ago
Quoted from CapeCodPin:

To an extent it's Boomers who have the $$$ to spend once retired. Their mortgages are paid off. Their 401ks are 7 figures plus, and even Social Security helps pays for the hobby, $70k+ per year is pretty typical.

Not all do, ask me how I know.

Super exclusive ad from the Pinside Marketplace!
16
#1127 54 days ago
Quoted from Strummy:

But they can spell.

and write in cursive.

#1128 54 days ago

lol they even call the great old school FPS games like Doom, Quake, and Duke Nukem “boomer shooters” nowadays!

10
#1129 54 days ago
Quoted from ROMM:

lol they even call the great old school FPS games like Doom, Quake, and Duke Nukem “boomer shooters” nowadays!

Quake and Doom, etc. are GenX shooters, we're the ones who grew up with them, but "boomer-shooter" has that nice ring to it.

Here's your actual boomer-shooter...

pasted_image1 (resized).jpegpasted_image1 (resized).jpeg
#1130 54 days ago
Quoted from metallik:

Quake and Doom, etc. are GenX shooters, we're the ones who grew up with them, but "boomer-shooter" has that nice ring to it.
Here's your actual boomer-shooter...[quoted image]

Yeah, the whole "boomer shooter" lingo was made up by Gen Z kids to make fun of Millennials and Gen X'ers who don't play Overwatch, COD, etc. The youngest Baby Boomers were in their 30's when Quake and Doom were the new hotness.

#1131 54 days ago
Quoted from PinCheese:

Boomers are to old for 401ks, they have pensions

ha, not a boomer but I have both

#1132 54 days ago

Probably been said multiple times, but I'm not reading 23 pages of this thread -- if you don't like the machine for the price, or the theme, or the gameplay, just don't buy it.

Companies, especially large companies, are pretty good at looking at their finances and will know whether or not they've set their price-point correctly. And, they re-adjust if needed.

#1133 54 days ago
Quoted from metallik:

Quake and Doom, etc. are GenX shooters, we're the ones who grew up with them, but "boomer-shooter" has that nice ring to it.
Here's your actual boomer-shooter...[quoted image]

Oh Man! I totally remember that. Radio Shack exclusive, I’m guessing. Loved going to the Shack before Xmas to see all of the new stuff, to put on my list for Santa! I wasn’t ever very successful with my ‘take’, but I was optimistic every year!

#1134 54 days ago

Duck hunt was my original shooter. Duck hunt would make a cool pin, except well, without the guns its just a bunch of boring ducks.

#1135 54 days ago
Quoted from Doctoroctos:

Duck hunt was my original shooter. Duck hunt would make a cool pin, except well, without the guns its just a bunch of boring ducks.

And a sassy dog!

#1136 54 days ago
Quoted from Sluggo39:

Bring on Metallica

I really want a Metallica. Usually when I look at the Pinside Market there's 2-5 for sale at any given time, all versions combined. There's currently 13. Could be a total coincidence, but I'm holding out for NIB.

#1137 53 days ago
Quoted from FamDocKevin:

Companies, especially large companies, are pretty good at looking at their finances and will know whether or not they've set their price-point correctly. And, they re-adjust if needed.

Not Stern. All games are the same price. Elliott Eisner’s first effort costs the same as Keith Elwin’s most recent design. Despite the public telling them (with their wallets) that the value isn’t there.

#1138 53 days ago
Quoted from silver_spinner:

tmnt is no where near the current relevancy of pokemon. if you operated redemption, place tmnt merch vs poke merch in various games and see which earns better. i have at various locations. the answer is pokemon by a mile. in a few of my machines i rubber banded poke 3 card sample packs to plush or other prizes and the games earn more than double per the norm now.

Right, that's my point, we're agreeing. Stern made TMNT work and Pokemon is miles above that.

#1139 53 days ago

Package deals coming to a distro near you very soon.

#1140 53 days ago

Speaking of Boomers, where do you find pinball auctions when they downsize and are too old to take care of 30 pins?

#1141 53 days ago
Quoted from PinCheese:

Boomers are to old for 401ks, they have pensions

Huh? I beg to differ. No pension here but plenty of IRA (converted from 401k)

#1142 53 days ago
Quoted from Kkoss24:

Speaking of Boomers, where do you find pinball auctions when they downsize and are too old to take care of 30 pins?

Make friends with a bunch of their wives. If any of the husbands drop dead, they’ll call you when the body’s still warm. “Get this shit outta here.”

#1143 53 days ago
Quoted from haveaniceswim:

Not Stern. All games are the same price. Elliott Eisner’s first effort costs the same as Keith Elwin’s most recent design. Despite the public telling them (with their wallets) that the value isn’t there.

Both LEs are $13K. Just looking at the playfield, I bet there is a huge margin difference between Jaws LE and Wick LE. There is probably some people on here that have access to BOM calculators based on features. License costs would be hard to estimate because of negotiation.

12
#1144 53 days ago

I'm a Stern game owner and have no ill will towards them, so I'm being fair when I say I've visited my local pinbar 3 times now since they got Wick, and I can say that I'm already bored of the layout and have lost interest in playing it. It's fast and difficult and since it's so fast you have zero time to glance at the screen, which appears to be what Stern is focusing on for me being into the Wick theme as nothing really feels "Wick" on the playfield. A bash car just doesn't do it for me and the case standup-up target is not exciting.

Sure I'll play it during tournaments and vs friends on occasion, but it's not a "seek it out" game to me, unfortunately.

What's next?

#1145 53 days ago
Quoted from Viggin900:

I went around to 35 yard sales today and saw a bunch of things that don't sell. Pinball is a very niche market quickly being oversaturated. Don't be surprised to see a John Wick or another game in someones driveway for just $100 about 25 years from now. I'm not kidding,old technology or software that is no longer compatible and no one wants to fool with. Thats how it is. Keep that in mind buying a new pinball machine.

Quoted from kciaccio:

25 years from now $100 won't buy lunch.

As to pinball on driveways in 35 years doubt current sterns will be in big numbers. The lead free solder,node board issues,etc. Sd cards will be like 16 rpm records now. The younger generation do not fix things. They just junk it and buy a newer one. I do see a few of them in 25 years. But the larger numbers of pinballs will be the 70's 80's and early 90's. I'll be a even older crab-ass Then you can tell me in 25 years that i was wrong.

As to 100$ for lunch at the pace things are going it will be in under 3 years.

#1146 53 days ago
Quoted from cp1610:

As to pinball on driveways in 35 years doubt current sterns will be in big numbers. The lead free solder,node board issues,etc. Sd cards will be like 16 rpm records now. The younger generation do not fix things. They just junk it and buy a newer one. I do see a few of them in 25 years. But the larger numbers of pinballs will be the 70's 80's and early 90's. I'll be a even older crab-ass Then you can tell me in 25 years that i was wrong.
As to 100$ for lunch at the pace things are going it will be in under 3 years.

Bally/Williams (and everyone else) probably said the same thing 40 years ago.

16
#1147 53 days ago
Quoted from Doctoroctos:

Both LEs are $13K. Just looking at the playfield, I bet there is a huge margin difference between Jaws LE and Wick LE. There is probably some people on here that have access to BOM calculators based on features. License costs would be hard to estimate because of negotiation.

License costs are not an issue for pinball manufacturers.

Generally, the rate of royalty is 10-12%, but with Stern usually doing larger numbers in sales, my guess is that they've negotiated down to about 7-8%, or roughly about $1000 on an LE.

There is also a Minimum Guarantee, but that's a non-issue when dealing with these sales figures.

People on Pinside are constantly making comments about the restrictions and limitations of licensing, but it's clearly comes from a place or misunderstanding and ignorance.

Working in licensing myself, I can assure you, it's very simple to navigate, and financially for Stern, it's barely a thought.

The TRUTH is, they've been using these excuses, along with other fables about their costs going up exponentially, so that they can jack up prices and enjoy insanely greedy profits.

As an LE buyer, I am now out.

I have a small collection of games that I love, and I'll be content with that.

If I decide to sell one of my games, I'll bring something in used, but the days of NIB are completely over!

I refuse to support greed.

#1148 53 days ago
Quoted from Kkoss24:

Speaking of Boomers, where do you find pinball auctions when they downsize and are too old to take care of 30 pins?

Don’t bother. They know what they got and ain’t a charity. Be gripping their shit even after death. Let em.

#1149 53 days ago
Quoted from underlord:

Don’t bother. They know what they got and ain’t a charity. Be gripping their shit even after death. Let em.

Has anyone ever been buried in one? I was thinking of getting laid to rest in my IMDN as long as I shrink a bit. I also want power run underground to it.

#1150 53 days ago
Quoted from La4s:

Just wait until our boomer parents start dying off, and we inherit their houses we can't afford.

Can you afford the property taxes, maintenance and utilities? Our son lives with us rent-free and still struggles to save money. We plan to sell our house in about 20 years, if not sooner. We’ll either live in an apartment (like my dad) or assisted living (like my mom).

Trust me…you don’t want to inherit a house. You want to inherit a Roth IRA. And you shouldn’t count on anything. Imagine being a 70-year old still waiting for your parents to die. That’s just sad.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 50.00
Playfield - Protection
Duke Pinball
 
$ 89.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
 
From: $ 60.00
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
arcade-cabinets.com
 
$ 17.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
 
Trade
Machine - For Trade
Suffield, CT
$ 77.50
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
 
From: $ 20.00
Playfield - Protection
arcade-cabinets.com
 
$ 20.00
Playfield - Other
FlipMods
 
$ 17.50
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
 
6,199 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Evansville, IN
$ 22.75
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Rocket City Pinball
 
From: $ 37.50
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 427.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
PinWoofer
 
$ 49.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 50.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
arcade-cabinets.com
 
$ 9,699.00
Pinball Machine
JOHN WICK PREMIUM Pre-order!
Quality Billiards
 
13,000
Machine - For Sale
West Chicago, IL
$ 100.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Duke Pinball
 
$ 185.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Sparky Pinball
 
$ 30.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
Trade
Machine - For Trade
Fort Wayne, IN
$ 9,499.99
Pinball Machine
Pinball Pro
 
$ 20.00
Lighting - Other
Dr Pinball
 
$ 12,999.00
Pinball Machine
Quality Billiards
 
From: $ 12.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
 
There are 3,166 posts in this topic. You are on page 23 of 64.

This topic is closed.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.