(Topic ID: 356248)

Wow - Stern and Distributors in FULL PANIC mode with John Wick.

By delt31

64 days ago


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#1 64 days ago

Well if it wasn’t clear already, stern is in full panic mode with John Wick. The recent Gomez “just happened to connect with Joel" update was obviously planned to help with this dumpster fire. Then the stream tonight - just have Tim say “firearms” are on the LCD screen as many times as possible so these dummies will just buy our super over priced game. Not working. I still don’t follow this BS about the license holder restrictions but the lack of guns in the art is not the major problem - although it's a clear example of how mindless stern thinks their base customers are to not even address it on day one - complete marketing fail.

The main problem is that John Wick is such a basic/stripped down game, with lackluster theme and they’re charging 13K for the LE and 9.7k for prem? Complete rip off. If the game ISN”T LOADED LIKE GODZILLA and it’s NOT a dream theme - next.

Then we have that TPN “flipping out” podcast in ultra shill mode with a cringy as f___ scripted john wick overview - it was so desperate and pathetic. Next will be the ultra positive streams of the game - shoots really well! Yes, the shills are in full panic mode trying to sell this game. Must be an absolute disaster for distributors and I respect those that are being transparent about their weak sales publicly.

13k for a Wick LE - only a FOOL would buy it now. Wait and it will be 9k LE and 7k prem in 6 months or less. Hold onto your money people - let stern and the distros take these loses.

I’m an LE guy and it’s at the point that if the theme isn’t dream, I’m out on LEs. Stern just priced themselves out as you’re going to take such a loss now. Shouldn’t work like that. And no, it’s not about just having fun Travis. It’s about not being a moron and immediately losing 25% of your value for no reason and until that changes, the price WILL BE the topic of discussion b/c no one should lose 3k in just 6 months.

Here's the reason we're here - TOO MUCH GREED from STERN and yes, JJP too and as a community we need to push back when it's stripped and support these manufacturers when it's loaded. Inflation? Gtfo Stern. If you believe that, maybe you believed Zach when he said Bond 60th was priced right at 20k. Greedy distros - never forget that one.

IMO, return LE supply to 500 and/or think about price fluctuating based on the title b/c this approach of LEs @13k/1k supply will not be successful for anyone.

.....And now I'm hearing about a stern shill pity party to try and resurrect this title amongst the community. What an embarrassment for stern - completely ignore your core community upon launch and now try to bring in as many stern shills as possible to rewrite the script. Don't be fooled folks - speak with your wallets if you think we deserve better.

#2 64 days ago

I do like the layout. I think the ball guides are going to let players “lean into” the tight shots a bit. Cointaker, San Diego Amusements, and Gameroom goodies have been great experiences IMHO. Look forward to playing it.

You still have that AFMR I sold ya?

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#3 64 days ago

I don’t understand this thread. You ok bro?

22
#4 64 days ago

On another note-I just received this from Matt today. Installed it while watching the (I thought it was enjoyable) Joel/Gomez interview. delt31 if you are frustrated, maybe unfollow and don’t watch. Then you can get on with your life positively. Summer is coming!

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#5 64 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

Well if it wasn’t clear already, stern is in full panic mode with John Wick. Gomez getting himself on with a “just happened to connect with Joel update” that was obviously so planned to get the word out b/c stern put their foot in their mouth. Stream of the game today - plug as many times that “firearms” are in the video so these dummies will just buy our super over priced game. Not working. I also don’t buy this BS about the license holder doesn’t allow it.
TPN “flipping out” podcast in ultra shill mode with a cringy as f___ scripted john wick overview that was so desperate it was pathetic. Wow - the shills are in full panic mode trying to sell this game. Must be an absolute disaster for distributors.
13k for a wick LE - only a fool would buy it now. 9k LE and 7k prem incoming. Hold onto your money people - let stern and the distros take these loses. “Edge flow” plastic is now something we’re pointing out as a “premium” feature? What a joke. And that dance floor pop bumper shot seems like a SDTM nightmare.
I’m an LE guy and it’s at the point that if the theme isn’t dream, I’m out on LEs. Stern just priced themselves out as you’re going to take such a loss now. Shouldn’t work like that. And no, it’s not about just having fun Travis. It’s about not being a moron and losing 3k for no reason. TOO MUCH GREED from STERN and yes, JJP too.

Really dude? Inflation is real. I think the game looks and plays great. I am looking forward to having a go on one.

28
#6 64 days ago

It's okay, Levi said distributors are just grumpy they have to work for a living now. I don't think for myself and just listen to Levi, those LE's sitting unsold are just an illusion.

15
#7 64 days ago

Can only polish a turd so much.

46
#8 64 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

Well if it wasn’t clear already, stern is in full panic mode with John Wick. Gomez getting himself on with a “just happened to connect with Joel update” that was obviously so planned to get the word out b/c stern put their foot in their mouth. Stream of the game today - plug as many times that “firearms” are in the video so these dummies will just buy our super over priced game. Not working. I also don’t buy this BS about the license holder doesn’t allow it.
TPN “flipping out” podcast in ultra shill mode with a cringy as f___ scripted john wick overview that was so desperate it was pathetic. Wow - the shills are in full panic mode trying to sell this game. Must be an absolute disaster for distributors.
13k for a wick LE - only a fool would buy it now. 9k LE and 7k prem incoming. Hold onto your money people - let stern and the distros take these loses. “Edge flow” plastic is now something we’re pointing out as a “premium” feature? What a joke. And that dance floor pop bumper shot seems like a SDTM nightmare.
I’m an LE guy and it’s at the point that if the theme isn’t dream, I’m out on LEs. Stern just priced themselves out as you’re going to take such a loss now. Shouldn’t work like that. And no, it’s not about just having fun Travis. It’s about not being a moron and losing 3k for no reason. TOO MUCH GREED from STERN and yes, JJP too.

The choice not to have guns was stupid and I don’t believe the IP thing at all. I’m willing to bet this was some goofy Disney-esque “kid-friendly” play that fell flat, think of how 2 games ago we had James Bond and guns. Stern just went dumb on this.

I’m hoping they don’t read this wrong. The layout seems decent. I’m glad they’re giving new/other guys a chance to design (HIRE JON NORRIS DAMMIT!!!!)

The real issue is the prices are still hitting the ceiling for games that pale in comparison to the loaded games Stern was pumping out in the mid 2000s.

You get a stripped down machine for $7k, with rules that are so deep you might as well be playing Dwarf Fortress or a Star Trek tabletop game. I don’t want to have a phone book of rules, give me fast and simple.
Easy to learn, hard to master! It’s getting ridiculously asinine. You can just buy some 90s machines for half the price and double the mechs.

16
#9 64 days ago

I've been behind on this subject. When did swords become such a thing in John Wick movies? Not sure if I've seen all the movies, admittedly. Pictures I saw today had swords all over the game.

#10 64 days ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

I've been behind on this subject. When did swords become such a thing in John Wick movies? Not sure if I've seen all the movies, admittedly. Pictures I saw today had swords all over the game.

I have only seen the first John Wick, and I’m starting to feel like perhaps it’s better that way?? Was 2 or 3 any good? Sounds like they got really shitty

#11 64 days ago

They were used in JW4 for a few seconds when he ran out of bullets.

Then he’d get a gun again…

But they managed to put the dumbest scene with the Horse on the PF, perhaps that’s fitting with This mess…
I’m convinced the designers hate the theme.

Quoted from RyanStl:

I've been behind on this subject. When did swords become such a thing in John Wick movies? Not sure if I've seen all the movies, admittedly. Pictures I saw today had swords all over the game.

#12 64 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

I have only seen the first John Wick, and I’m starting to feel like perhaps it’s better that way?? Was 2 or 3 any good? Sounds like they got really shitty

I was at a lake party and the movies were playing. The only one I really remember is I think 3 and because it was completelky stupid. There were assassins answering phones all over the place like a bunch of Agent Smith's in the Matrix, but was supposed to be real world.

16
#13 64 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I don’t understand this thread. You ok bro?

He's far from OK with these prices. Obviously. Can you blame him?

56
#14 64 days ago

Yes, it is. But so is greed.

#15 64 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

I’m glad they’re giving new/other guys a chance to design (HIRE JON NORRIS DAMMIT!!!!)

Jon did work for Stern for a while long ago, but they parted company on not-so-great terms. I'm not sure that Jon would want to go back.

#16 64 days ago
Quoted from Ty-Arnold:

He's far from OK with these prices. Obviously. Can you blame him?

Prices and other frustration

29
#17 64 days ago

Let’s all face it. JW is a swing and a miss.

-1
#18 64 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

The choice not to have guns was stupid and I don’t believe the IP thing at all. I’m willing to bet this was some goofy Disney-esque “kid-friendly” play that fell flat, think of how 2 games ago we had James Bond and guns. Stern just went dumb on this.
I’m hoping they don’t read this wrong. The layout seems decent. I’m glad they’re giving new/other guys a chance to design (HIRE JON NORRIS DAMMIT!!!!)
The real issue is the prices are still hitting the ceiling for games that pale in comparison to the loaded games Stern was pumping out in the mid 2000s.
You get a stripped down machine for $7k, with rules that are so deep you might as well be playing Dwarf Fortress or a Star Trek tabletop game. I don’t want to have a phone book of rules, give me fast and simple.
Easy to learn, hard to master! It’s getting ridiculously asinine. You can just buy some 90s machines for half the price and double the mechs.</blockquote

The choice not to have guns was stupid and I don’t believe the IP thing at all. I’m willing to bet this was some goofy Disney-esque “kid-friendly” play that fell flat, think of how 2 games ago we had James Bond and guns. Stern just went dumb on this.
I’m hoping they don’t read this wrong. The layout seems decent. I’m glad they’re giving new/other guys a chance to design (HIRE JON NORRIS DAMMIT!!!!)
The real issue is the prices are still hitting the ceiling for games that pale in comparison to the loaded games Stern was pumping out in the mid 2000s.
You get a stripped down machine for $7k, with rules that are so deep you might as well be playing Dwarf Fortress or a Star Trek tabletop game. I don’t want to have a phone book of rules, give me fast and simple.
Easy to learn, hard to master! It’s getting ridiculously asinine. You can just buy some 90s machines for half the price and double the mechs.

TLDR. Does Deadpool have guns bro? - yes, yes it does.. that a stern bro? - yes, yes it is. There ya go bro..

#19 64 days ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

Let’s all face it. JW is a swing and a miss.

Not argueing-but I need to figure out why. Rush pro (from FNO-along with my JP, I don’t hate FNO btw) and other games have less in them but are fantastic. I bet its a decent pin to play.

#20 64 days ago
Quoted from tilted81:

TLDR. Does Deadpool have guns bro? - yes, yes it does.. that a stern bro? - yes, yes it is. There ya go bro..

Good point bro but that games old AF!!……OH! Well shit does bond have guns bro? Yes, yes it does.. and that’s a stern too? Yes, yes it is.. well shit.

#21 64 days ago

So why not Wick? Dumb as shit.

#22 64 days ago

Is it true Stern is coming out with new plastics with guns on them because of the backlash?

-42
#23 64 days ago
Quoted from MattElder:

Yes, it is. But so is greed.

I do not think it is greed. Stern has a lot of staff and a lot of overhead. I do agree that the topper prices are high, but I think the game prices are not.

Do you want the company to survive or not?

#24 64 days ago

The game looks decent. The problem is there are too many decent new games these days and prices are high. I’m sure I would enjoy the game, but I have room for 10 pins and this isn’t enough to replace any of them. I’ll bet that Stern will start to slow down all these releases after Venom and now this. Loving my Jaws LE by the way.

48
#25 64 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

I do not think it is greed. Stern has a lot of staff and a lot of overhead. I do agree that the topper prices are high, but I think the game prices are not.
Do you want the company to survive or not?

I'm well aware of what they have. For 20 years I've watched the game prices grow more than they should, while having less and less in them. I don't *want* to see them fail, but I will no longer support them with these absurd prices. And a lot of people are starting to think the same way.

43
#26 64 days ago

I feel the Wick tantrums could really use a hug and a cookie...

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#27 64 days ago

Loser kid podcast had Gomez on as well.
Felt he shot straight with facts and that’s enough for me.
Look forward to playing Wick.

#28 64 days ago
Quoted from MattElder:

I'm well aware of what they have. For 20 years I've watched the game prices grow more than they should, while having less and less in them. I don't *want* to see them fail, but I will no longer support them with these absurd prices. And a lot of people are starting to think the same way.

Times are definitely getting tougher, pinball machines are a big spend, I get that. Stern have not put their prices up in over a year, so why the backlash at price now?

#29 64 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Times are definitely getting tougher, pinball machines are a big spend, I get that. Stern have not put their prices up in over a year, so why the backlash at price now?

It's not just now for me. I've been out for a few years now on Stern games.

#30 64 days ago

I’m sure they are panicking, all the way to the bank. People have been buying this overpriced shit for years now.

#31 64 days ago
Quoted from m00nmuppet:

I feel the Wick tantrums could really use a hug and a cookie...[quoted image]

It's not triggered, is just people taking a hard pass for a specific reason.

45
#32 64 days ago

Holy crap!!! we did not sell one JW day one period, worst sales day ever for a pin

Start listening at 1:30:48

29
#33 64 days ago

Is it possible to be triggered if a gun isn't present?

10
#34 64 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

I also don’t buy this BS about the license holder doesn’t allow it.

100%. The more it's rationally explained to me in exhaustive detail, the less I believe it.

The simple truth is that Stern Pinball hates guns.

Which makes it particularly weird that they had dozens of people spend a year making a game all about a guy who shoots millions of guns.

And yet, here we are.

15
#35 64 days ago
Quoted from manadams:

Holy crap!!! we did not sell one JW day one period, worst sales day ever for a pin
Start listening at 1:30:48

Wow that’s crazy. Travis hit the nail on the head. Smart commentary.

#36 63 days ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

Is it true Stern is coming out with new plastics with guns on them because of the backlash?

They are including an alternate sticker you can put inside the "weapons crate" on the mid-right side of the play field. Currently it has knives and nunchucks inside, I think GG said you can put a guns sticker in there.

#37 63 days ago

You had me at Wow!

#38 63 days ago
Quoted from manadams:

Holy crap!!! we did not sell one JW day one period, worst sales day ever for a pin
Start listening at 1:30:48

Whats crazy to me is, whoever has (or gets) the license for The Goonies and makes a quality shooter with a good BOM and good toys is going to murder sales.

#39 63 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

I have only seen the first John Wick, and I’m starting to feel like perhaps it’s better that way?? Was 2 or 3 any good? Sounds like they got really shitty

JW 2 was also good, then it sorta went downhill.
-Mike

#40 63 days ago

I still say that Stern will adjust either their pricing or number of LEs in 2025.

Just crazy that if one wanted too, they could can get any of the following from distributors: James Bond LE, James Bond 60, Jurassic Park 30th LE, Elvira LE and Venom LE.

LEs should be sold out right away….just shows there’s a huge imbalance in the market.

At $10k, I probably purchase John Wick LE….$13k? Pass.

28
#41 63 days ago

Guys - enough is enough. I was annoyed with the no guns in the art thing myself, I posted as much and was really expecting to be let down by the video footage and gameplay being equally neutered. But that clearly isn't the case now seeing the main reveal stream. And a lot of the new code/rule ideas look awesome, imo.

Now I think I'm a buyer and am pretty excited by what I saw. I think it looked petty awesome to shoot. Obviously make up your own mind there, but I'm considering my first Premium NIB purchase.

-

But to continue with the conspiracy theories now is just over the top. Gomez came across incredibly sincere I thought - to sit there after watching the interview with Joel and the Loserkid duo and say he's lying is not cool.

I get that we are all a bit jaded and divided by politics and a corrupt media, but the license restrictions and idiosyncrasies with managing that process is the only thing that even makes any sense at all at this point with JW. This is a super violent theme with some assinine restrictions that impacted the art. Gomez may be in damage control mode, but come on. He is a pinball icon who clearly loves the game, don't crap on the guy based on nonsense pulled out of thin air now that he has provided a lot of information on the situation.

Also I thought Tim did a great job leading the reveal stream - he clearly has a lot of passion for the game and was proud of their work.

Now pricing complaints in general I can totally see. The LE pricing in particular is just stupid now. But no offense to LE buyers - it always has been, though to a lesser extent with the previous price deltas between models being smaller...

14
#42 63 days ago

Exactly what we don't need: another thread on this topic.

#43 63 days ago

stern just keeps on triggering its consumers and it is not smart yet it has been pounded into us that if WE ran Stern they would be tits up in a week.
I Strongly disagree !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Between the greed/Price hikes/Hardware-Materials cheapness /WOKE policy / Crap Art time to time / Less features Not More / all just pisses me off .

also to clarify these games would be making money for stern still at 4500 for a pro 6500 for a premium and 8500 on limited editions , regardless of the amount of workers/buildings/parts costs ,stern would still make a ton of money ..

So all you defending Stern's greed , you are the problem with the current pin pricing model. !! If this don't sell well and the next doesn't . BE IT WELL KNOWN - Prices will fall / Already used jaws pro is for sale at 5899 with 50 plays SITTING ...lol
WAKE UP PEOPLE !!!! I currently would never buy a NIB ever again !!!

#44 63 days ago
Quoted from PinFever:

BE IT WELL KNOWN - Prices will fall / Already used jaws pro is for sale at 5899

Well shit, if this makes modern pinball more affordable... I'm all for it

10
#45 63 days ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

100%. The more it's rationally explained to me in exhaustive detail, the less I believe it.
The simple truth is that Stern Pinball hates guns.
Which makes it particularly weird that they had dozens of people spend a year making a game all about a guy who shoots millions of guns.
And yet, here we are.

There are a number of reasons I'm not buying even though I have seen the first John Wick 4 or 5 times, there really isn't one "big" reason.

1) Stern has made it clear they don't give a crap about the consumer in the last year or two. Rush prem's are popping node 10 boards like mad and Stern refuses to allocate the manpower to fix the problem and when you have enough and request them to take the pin back THEY BLAME THE DISTRIBUTOR. They have literally stated "You purchased it from a distributor not us, see them for a refund."

Problem with a playfield? Sorry, the majority of them are fine, no soup for you.

2) The gun thing is a "meh" but rather bizarre choice considering the "death by gun" in the average JW movie is up there with a small war. I suspect the former Disney executive has something to do with it but that is speculation. Gary Stern wasn't shy about slapping guns on a pin for art. Maybe this is a way to "broaden the audience" by having "R rated" video clips in adult mode but less spicy ones in "kid friendly" mode and a neutral cabinet.

But lets be realistic, it's John Flipping Wick! it's just the wrong title to attempt this stupid strategy should this be the case.

3) The "sound track" during the live stream left very much left to be desired, I actually turned down the volume at one point it was irritating.

4) Inflation makes me picky about purchases and it is an issue.

28
#46 63 days ago
Quoted from MattElder:

Yes, it is. But so is greed.

I think that Avitar was their first LE game in 2010; that game sold for $5499 and was truly limited to just 250 units. Adjusted for inflation that game would cost $7875 in 2024 dollars.

John wick LE will have 1000 games made (not that limited) and will cost $12999.

Now I’m not directly comparing the two games in gameplay and mechanics but I do have to ask if the updated technology in Wick is worth an additional $5000.

Is it inflation or greed? My guess is on the second

53
#47 63 days ago

2022:
Pinside: "Man, that James Bond artwork sucks. Stern is really phoning it in, they don't even care anymore."
Stern: "Licensor restrictions."
Pinside: "Ohhh. Okay, that makes more sense."

2024:
Pinside: "Man, that John Wick artwork sucks. Not even a single gun on the playfield."
Stern: "Again, Licensor. Restrictions."
Pinside: "BS!! I THINK THEY'RE LYING TO PUSH THEIR WOKE AGENDA ON ALL OF US! BOYCOTT!!"

#48 63 days ago

Show me something on that playfield that’s from JOHN WICK 1 or JW2 or even JW3.

EVERYTHING ON PF & ART is JW4

It’s missing huge chunks of the franchise.

Sure, I like pinball and absolutely get excited over new Sterns. I’m a Stern fan.

But JW fan part of me is not happy.
This is a horrendous take on JW. They’ve absolutely neutered the character and the franchise.

Yea I saw “video footage” from the stream.
To say I was disappointed would be a major understatement.

John Woke.

Layout looks decent. This is nothing against the layout as a pinball machine. But the theme, for anyone who has actually watched
JW… they massacred the theme with pool noodles and poodles. Brutally bad and hideous pin

10
#49 63 days ago
Quoted from Apollo18:

Show me something on that playfield that’s from JOHN WICK 1 or JW2 or even JW3.

Just at first glance...

Screenshot_20240507_135219_Samsung Internet (resized).jpgScreenshot_20240507_135219_Samsung Internet (resized).jpg
43
#50 63 days ago

It’s the economy, stupid! Many sacrifice other things to buy a game due to pricing. The economy sucks and this is released after the big ticket Elwin game. You can’t expect potential buyers to keep throwing money at pinball when they need to eat, house and fuel their cars.

Additionally, where people recently made money selling their used, newer games, they’re experiencing a loss now. How much money are you going to lose so that you can buy the most recent game? $2K on a STh Pre? $4K on a Venom LE? What if you paid $20K for Bond 60th? Maybe you have a Mandalorian in there somewhere? How many GZ premiums were made? It’s a small, over-saturated market on a specialized, high price item.

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