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(Topic ID: 87626)

Would you rent a fellow Pinsider your pin?


By pinster68

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 45 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by jlm33
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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    #1 6 years ago

    Simple theory ... I don't want to sell my pins, or don't have a pin you're willing to trade with. Would to rent a pin to a fellow Pinsider for say $100/month?

    Any title, as long as you want, maybe a cap of say 100 games a month. That's a buck a game ... more or less what you'd pay at an arcade ... but who cares. From a renters perspective you'd get to play a pin you'd otherwise not be able to (easily), and from a pin-landlord's perspective you'd earn money for a pin that perhaps is just sitting in your gameroom gathering dust. You'd set some basic ground rules for the care of you pin, and proper, timely return, but otherwise it's a mutual agreement: cash for play with proper care.

    So, would you?

    20
    #2 6 years ago

    No. If I trusted them well enough to lend them one of my games, I wouldn't charge them to borrow a game I wasn't playing.

    #3 6 years ago

    Probably not. But If I knew them well they could just bring over drinks or food and play with me.

    #4 6 years ago

    There was a thread about a month ago I posted in regarding switching games out with people on a temporary basis. I added that I had the idea to start what I called the "PEP" club, AKA The Pinball Exchange Program. The way it works is you and say 3 or 4 other people would each put up a game of equal value (more or less) and switch off with each other for a set amount of time.

    To explain, let's say I put up my TFLE, you put up and AVLE, another person an X-Men LE and the 4th person an Avatar. What you then do is rotate each game, say every 2 months. So, you'd have me TFLE for 2 months and then pass it along to the next guy while you got the Avatar next for 2 months. and so on till you got your game back.

    I'd be more inclined to do that than renting a machine out. What do you think?

    #5 6 years ago

    There was a time not very long ago. That I would loan a machine out to anyone that I knew. And for years I had no problems doing so. But then I had a few unfortunate incidents that hppened that were unentintional but soured me on pin swapping. I would loan a game even if the other party had nothing to swap. I just feel if you are comfortable go for it. But bad things could happen. I just don't think I would be comfortable charging.

    #6 6 years ago
    Quoted from Pinfidel:

    There was a thread about a month ago I posted in regarding switching games out with people on a temporary basis. I added that I had the idea to start what I called the "PEP" club, AKA The Pinball Exchange Program. The way it works is you and say 3 or 4 other people would each put up a game of equal value (more or less) and switch off with each other for a set amount of time.
    To explain, let's say I put up my TFLE, you put up and AVLE, another person an X-Men LE and the 4th person an Avatar. What you then do is rotate each game, say every 2 months. So, you'd have me TFLE for 2 months and then pass it along to the next guy while you got the Avatar next for 2 months. and so on till you got your game back.
    I'd be more inclined to do that than renting a machine out. What do you think?

    This is a unique idea.

    We do something similar between pinball pals here in the Dallas/Ft Worth Area of Texas.

    I currently have a Monster Bash on loan from a friend.
    I recently had a Gottlieb Atlantis at another friend's home.
    I have loaned a Tron LE to a friend in the past.
    I loaned a brand new WPT to a friend back in 2006.

    Loaning pinball machines to people you trust is a great way to share games in an area.

    I have been doing this for over 10 years and I have NEVER had any break the trust.

    So rather than rent it to a friend, loan it to a friend.

    Marcus

    #7 6 years ago
    Quoted from Street:

    There was a time not very long ago. That I would loan a machine out to anyone that I knew. And for years I had no problems doing so. But then I had a few unfortunate incidents that hppened that were unentintional but soured me on pin swapping. I would loan a game even if the other party had nothing to swap. I just feel if you are comfortable go for it. But bad things could happen. I just don't think I would be comfortable charging.

    That's unfortunate. Things break. That's life. Things break even more in pinball. That's the nature of the beast.

    That said, if you agree to borrow something from a friend and it breaks while in your possession, within reason, you should get the game fixed out of respect for your friend for loaning it to you. At least that's how I feel about it.

    #8 6 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    This is a unique idea.
    We do something similar between pinball pals here in the Dallas/Ft Worth Area of Texas.
    I currently have a Monster Bash on loan from a friend.
    I recently had a Gottlieb Atlantis at another friend's home.
    I have loaned a TRON LE to a friend in the past.
    I loaned a brand new WPT to a friend back in 2006.
    Loaning pinball machines to people you trust is a great way to share games in an area.
    I have been doing this for over 10 years and I have NEVER had any break the trust.
    So rather than rent it to a friend, loan it to a friend.
    Marcus

    I think it could be really cool. The only bad part is the pain of actually moving the machines. And hopefully there's never an unfortunate accident.

    That's great that you and your friends have already been doing stuff like that. Cool!

    #9 6 years ago

    Man, what a great idea!
    I think I would do it, as long as I met the person and felt confident in them, perhaps getting some feedback about the perspective borrower via other Pinside users and such. A spread sheet could also be built with info about borrowers, and any sort of issues that may have occurred during their rental and how it was resolved.
    Of course, some things would need to be made clear, and worked out to make sure all in agreement, such as who pays for repair if something breaks during rental (like a board goes, and was 100% okay when loaned).

    An addition to the original idea:
    I think I would also like to "swap" game, instead if just cash for rental. Since I would have the open a lot from loaning the game out, I would have the room to bring in a new one. To me, I think I would enjoy the ability to play a game not in my collection, without shelling out a penny!

    --Ed

    #10 6 years ago

    Depends on the person if I would swap or not. Rent, no.

    #11 6 years ago
    Quoted from SealClubber:

    Depends on the person if I would swap or not. Rent, no.

    i've never rented out a pin to a friend..... hell, i've never swapped pins with a friend... but i have swapped wives with friends

    #12 6 years ago

    If it wasn't for swapping machines and accepting loans I would not have 'owned' 80% of the machines that have passed through my house.
    I bought my first machine A13, and then did a permament swap for a DM, then swap/loaned that for NF. Have also borrowed on extended loan, F14, Corvette, Shadow, Aerobatics, Flash Gordon, HS2. Have also purchased TSPP and POTC.
    Having the loan of these machines has allowed me to host a competition meeting at my house, which would have been impossible without the generosity of friends, as well as giving them more space. I have even sold a couple of their machines for them.
    Never been charged, and would never consider charging a friend.
    The understanding is that while the machine is in my care it will be looked after and treated with respect. The first thing I usually do is give them a thorough clean, replace rubbers, balls and bulbs, check everything is working as should before setting to work on getting all of the high scores!

    #13 6 years ago
    Quoted from SealClubber:

    Depends on the person if I would swap or not. Rent, no.

    For clarity ... the question was if you would rent it, not swap. Not directed at you per se ... just most of the replies immediately gravitated to swapping, and that was explicitly excluded in the opening post.

    I know all of us with good friends and/or swaps to arrange have their opinions, and I too would likely just go for a swap with someone I trust. But let's say you trust the guy in general, he's known on Pinside and you either really want to play one of his pins or vice versa. You neither want to sell, or have a trade offer ... and you're not freely offering to loan out your pins.

    Okay, for more clarity, and a real-world example:

    I really want an Attack From Mars (among others). I'm largely out of space and not looking to pack more pins in my house for the long-term. Neither am I looking to spend yet more money on pins. So a purchase isn't likely. No one is going to lend me theirs, and I let's say the person really doesn't want to trade for anything I have. Would $100/month be enough to get an AFM owner's interest? I'll gladly pay. Assuming they know that their pin gets very well cared for, is guaranteed that if anything bad happens (roof falls in on it, cat dies inside it, etc..) that I would pay for it in full, etc... So, I know this is very specific, but I think the base need is their. People want to play certain pins, but for whatever reason can't get their hands on one.

    Think of it as a step above routing your pins. You get a small financial return and your pin is likely safer, and not likely to get the same amount of play in an arcade...

    #14 6 years ago

    Limiting the number of plays you can have per month seems counterproductive to the idea of renting the machine.

    #15 6 years ago

    So basicly, you're offering an owner of AFM $1.00 / game / month to set this game in your house to play, rather than go tame one in the wild. And you pay for repairs as needed, wish I had one.

    #16 6 years ago

    I would probably loan or trade my game for a little while.

    #17 6 years ago

    I would be more interested in renting than putting my games out to rent... I guess that's why I lease cars.. oh crap, I just made a cargument!

    #18 6 years ago

    I would swap games

    #19 6 years ago

    Tough one. I have actually had someone offer to rent me pins, but $100 just seems like such a nominal price that it's not really even worth it. I'd rather just lend a pin. When there is money involved without really changing in ownership it gets messy in my opinion. And I wouldn't ever consider doing this with anyone I didn't know very well.

    I do firmly believe that most of the people in this hobby are good people, but when you're talking about a high-end pin, the potential is there for things getting very ugly. "that scratch wasn't there before" or "a coil burned out and I replaced it, but now something else went" or "my hot water heater went and the pin was flooded" or "you had it somewhere with high humidity and the playfield started planking" or whatever. Or "my house was broken into and the pin was stolen or damaged" and you need to negotiate on what the actual replacement value is.
    Most people are good people, but all it takes is one bad experience.

    When money changes hands for any reason..well, there is a reason you rent a car and have to sign off on a mile long contract! It's a big can of worms. If you have a buddy, then swap.

    #20 6 years ago

    +1 for davewth

    As long as you know the pinsider and he/she will take care of the game, let them "borrow" the game and not "rent"

    When I "borrow" a game which 1 pinsider always asks if I want one of his games to borrow, I usually shop it out before I return it and fix minor issues if they occur (I wouldn't replace the DMD or board set, but I would replace bulbs, coils, etc)
    If you are trying to make money, I would look to allowing you game to be used on location in your area
    Just my thoughts
    njg

    #21 6 years ago

    When you frame your question as having someone who knows and trusts you "route" their game to you, I think it makes a lot of sense. In order for an op to net $100 a month on a routed game, he'd need to pay the local vending tax...in Atlanta it is $400 or $500 a year...so he'd have to have have $240 dropped into the game every month. Further, if he was an upstanding citizen, he'd have to pay another $10 a month or so for income tax, so that makes the drop have to be $260 on location to net $100. Add in that he will not have to spend a minute to free a stuck ball, avoids 99% of the abuse the game would take on location, doesn't have to pay insurance, and can sleep knowing that the game isn't going to walk away.

    Put another way, if an AFM costs, say, $6000, getting $1200 a year is a 20% return. Heck, if you were close to me, I'd buy an AFM and put it on your location

    Of course, the lender would have to approach objectively it as an investment, and I think the average collector is anything but an objective investor...to an op, a game is a tool to make money. To a collector, a game is a notch below his wife and kids, if he really loves his wife

    #22 6 years ago

    Noooooooooooooooooope!!

    #23 6 years ago

    When I loan a fellow pinsider my pin, it comes back substantially better than when it left. My fellow pinsider has not only the pinball disease, but suffers from pinball cosmetic perfectionism.

    So I am happy to loan this pinsider any pin I own. I hope he doesn't read this!

    #24 6 years ago

    I fellow pinsider was wanted to swap machine with me. he did not understand my hesitation . Well Colorado had horrible fires and floods last summer. And the home of the pinsider who wanted to swap almost lost his home to the fire. Luck was on his side and his home was saved.

    #25 6 years ago
    Quoted from ENDOFLINE:

    i've never rented out a pin to a friend..... hell, i've never swapped pins with a friend... but i have swapped wives with friends

    LMAO!!!

    I hope your wife NEVER see's this! LOL

    #26 6 years ago
    Quoted from Pinfidel:

    There was a thread about a month ago I posted in regarding switching games out with people on a temporary basis. I added that I had the idea to start what I called the "PEP" club, AKA The Pinball Exchange Program. The way it works is you and say 3 or 4 other people would each put up a game of equal value (more or less) and switch off with each other for a set amount of time.
    To explain, let's say I put up my TFLE, you put up and AVLE, another person an X-Men LE and the 4th person an Avatar. What you then do is rotate each game, say every 2 months. So, you'd have me TFLE for 2 months and then pass it along to the next guy while you got the Avatar next for 2 months. and so on till you got your game back.
    I'd be more inclined to do that than renting a machine out. What do you think?

    I was toying with this idea myself the other day. I have a couple games I really like and don't want to get rid of, but I wouldn't mind doing a lone/borrow of them for something else for a couple months. I'd never charge for it though and it'd only really be with people I know and/or really trust.

    #27 6 years ago
    Quoted from Pinfidel:

    To explain, let's say I put up my TFLE, you put up and AVLE, another person an X-Men LE and the 4th person an Avatar. What you then do is rotate each game, say every 2 months. So, you'd have me TFLE for 2 months and then pass it along to the next guy while you got the Avatar next for 2 months. and so on till you got your game back.
    I'd be more inclined to do that than renting a machine out. What do you think?

    Already trying to get rid of that TFLE!!!! Just kidding.

    #28 6 years ago
    Quoted from JoeGrenuk:

    When you frame your question as having someone who knows and trusts you "route" their game to you, I think it makes a lot of sense. In order for an op to net $100 a month on a routed game, he'd need to pay the local vending tax...in Atlanta it is $400 or $500 a year...so he'd have to have have $240 dropped into the game every month. Further, if he was an upstanding citizen, he'd have to pay another $10 a month or so for income tax, so that makes the drop have to be $260 on location to net $100. Add in that he will not have to spend a minute to free a stuck ball, avoids 99% of the abuse the game would take on location, doesn't have to pay insurance, and can sleep knowing that the game isn't going to walk away.
    Put another way, if an AFM costs, say, $6000, getting $1200 a year is a 20% return. Heck, if you were close to me, I'd buy an AFM and put it on your location
    Of course, the lender would have to approach objectively it as an investment, and I think the average collector is anything but an objective investor...to an op, a game is a tool to make money. To a collector, a game is a notch below his wife and kids, if he really loves his wife

    Yep, that's more or less the logic I was going with Joe. And I did the math as well. $1200/yr ain't bad at all.

    #29 6 years ago

    I don't know....I did loan my AFM to a good friend. He ended up tuning it up and doing some nice things for me while he had it, so it was a great experience. Here is where I knid of agree with others, and why I think you are getting conflicting comments that go against the intent of your post. If I know someone well enough to rent them a game, and I would never do that if I didn't already know the person, then I would not feel "right" about taking money. I would feel happy to loan it out. And if I wanted to rent my games, I agree with another person that $100 just isn't worth the hassle, or not having the game when I get the bug to play it....which we all know would happen if it were gone. At some point something is going to happen to a game, either in moving or during play, that will wipe out the income derived from loaning it. And if I did charge the $100, it would be because I kind of needed the dough, and then the repair and wear issue is even more of a consideration. No....if I wanted to do this just to try out other games, it would have to be a free loan. And if it cost much more than $100 a month, which would address the financial issue to some degree, then I don't think it would make finanacial sense to the renter. And limiting the number of plays? I wouldn't be in as a renter.

    Here is one twist though. How about renting to own? If you had a game you knew you didn't want, you could offer to rent it out for 30 or 60 days or whatever and apply it to a predetermined price. If the buyer didn't want it you just keep the rental fee. Thats the only way it makes sense to me, and then I wouldn't feel bad keeping their money.

    #30 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinster68:

    Yep, that's more or less the logic I was going with Joe. And I did the math as well. $1200/yr ain't bad at all.

    I operated for years so I concur with your excellent point. Of course, that is another way of stating part of my point which was made after your post. It would need to be approached as a business arrangement, not really a loan (sorry to the op...I know this isn't what you were asking, but it points to why renting probably won't work for most). When you look at it from a percentage point, I guess $100 makes more sense but for me personally, I wouldn't rent for so little. AFM at $100 isn't worth it. And as someone that sells pins for a living, I can tell you there is a definite downward trend going on with retail pricing, which is amazing though welcome to see. I would not want a high end expensive game tied up in a rental if I thought I might want to sell it. AFM were going for a retail price of $12k and some more depending on condition....if you could find one. I have seen three in the last 60 days for $8k or less. That would have more than wiped out any rental gains.

    #31 6 years ago
    Quoted from sinnisterjsb:

    Already trying to get rid of that TFLE!!!! Just kidding.

    LOL No way! Love TFLE. Got a lot more miles to through on that machine.

    #32 6 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball4life:

    Here is one twist though. How about renting to own? If you had a game you knew you didn't want, you could offer to rent it out for 30 or 60 days or whatever and apply it to a predetermined price. If the buyer didn't want it you just keep the rental fee. Thats the only way it makes sense to me, and then I wouldn't feel bad keeping their money.

    This is different though, no? That would imply you wouldn't want the game back where as the poster seems to be interested in getting the game back eventually. That is a great idea though if both parties agree to it... you may want some sort of damage clause signed though... if the person is renting to own and the machine took x amount of damage in their custody (Beyond typical wear and tear), then they cannot "back out of" the deal without paying whatever the damages cost.

    Hey Pinfidel, want to swap your TFLE with my ToM for a couple months

    #33 6 years ago
    Quoted from Linolium:

    This is different though, no? That would imply you wouldn't want the game back where as the poster seems to be interested in getting the game back eventually. That is a great idea though if both parties agree to it... you may want some sort of damage clause signed though... if the person is renting to own and the machine took x amount of damage in their custody (Beyond typical wear and tear), then they cannot "back out of" the deal without paying whatever the damages cost.

    True, it is different. It was simply the only way I could see where renting made some sense.

    #34 6 years ago

    fair enough

    #35 6 years ago

    If you did not get something in a legally binding contract, you could get screwed. If you are doing a swap or a rent based on a handshake you are not protected if that pinsider that you trust turns out to be untrustworthy person. Quite a few times that I lent out something expensive or a large sum of money, my "good" friends that I trusted skipped town and I was out either something expensive or a large sum of money. I would not want to risk a high end pin for $100 a month when it could be "stolen" (possibly sold by the renter,) and all I would get would be an "I'm sorry." There is way too much that could go wrong. I would not loan anything to anyone that I would not give away. Family members are a different story though. And if we swap Blu Ray discs for example, that is not on the same scale as a pinball machine that I might have spent countless hours restoring that comes with a much higher price tag.

    #36 6 years ago
    Quoted from Pinball4life:

    I operated for years so I concur with your excellent point. Of course, that is another way of stating part of my point which was made after your post. It would need to be approached as a business arrangement, not really a loan (sorry to the op...I know this isn't what you were asking, but it points to why renting probably won't work for most). When you look at it from a percentage point, I guess $100 makes more sense but for me personally, I wouldn't rent for so little. AFM at $100 isn't worth it. And as someone that sells pins for a living, I can tell you there is a definite downward trend going on with retail pricing, which is amazing though welcome to see. I would not want a high end expensive game tied up in a rental if I thought I might want to sell it. AFM were going for a retail price of $12k and some more depending on condition....if you could find one. I have seen three in the last 60 days for $8k or less. That would have more than wiped out any rental gains.

    Fair enough. So what would it take for a higher valued pin? $150? $200? Renting to the average Joe I would expect it to go higher, but for the Pinside case study I was keeping it low, just amongst us girls.

    #37 6 years ago

    A local operator rents pins by month for $300 no matter the value. I'd think your arrangement would be less than that, given its amount pinheads and not the general public.

    #38 6 years ago

    If you really want to get money out of it rather then a 1 swap then, imo, get a lawyer to write up some legal contract you both need to sign.

    #39 6 years ago
    Quoted from NJGecko:

    I'd rather just lend a pin.

    Can I borrow your Star Trek LE ?

    #40 6 years ago
    Quoted from spfxted:

    Can I borrow your Star Trek LE ?

    Me first! Me first!

    #41 6 years ago

    You can both borrow it permanently. With cash

    #42 6 years ago
    Quoted from mcclad:

    If you did not get something in a legally binding contract, you could get screwed. If you are doing a swap or a rent based on a handshake you are not protected if that pinsider that you trust turns out to be untrustworthy person. Quite a few times that I lent out something expensive or a large sum of money, my "good" friends that I trusted skipped town and I was out either something expensive or a large sum of money. I would not want to risk a high end pin for $100 a month when it could be "stolen" (possibly sold by the renter,) and all I would get would be an "I'm sorry." There is way too much that could go wrong. I would not loan anything to anyone that I would not give away. Family members are a different story though. And if we swap Blu Ray discs for example, that is not on the same scale as a pinball machine that I might have spent countless hours restoring that comes with a much higher price tag.

    Boy do I agree with that!

    #43 6 years ago
    Quoted from pinster68:

    Fair enough. So what would it take for a higher valued pin? $150? $200? Renting to the average Joe I would expect it to go higher, but for the Pinside case study I was keeping it low, just amongst us girls.

    But we are then back to my point....if I had a Pinside buddy I knew well enough to rent him a game, I couldn't take his money...we're friends. I would loan it to him, and I have done that before and was happy to. Me personally, I wouldn't rent to the average Joe I didn't know. I agree with all the risks that have been mentioned above. I think its great when two or three people live in the same area and can simply rotate their pins around just like you would on a game route. Then everyone will likely take care of the games, no money changes hands (friends and money....they don't mix well anyway) and everyone can just have a great time with the pins!

    #44 6 years ago

    I'd be willing to rent some top notch games at $100/mo. I would take great care of them and think idea to rent spare pins would work. Visit person's house to see whether their stuff is beat to sh!+ first, though. But if they appear normal, things should be fine and you'll probably make some new friends too. :-I

    #45 6 years ago

    We temporary swap games with friends. Without any contract. But we make sure everyone nearby knows to whom a game belongs.

    Still, I could sell a game that does not belong to me... once, and only once. After that I better move to Tahiti or some place very, very far away as I would be blacklisted forever...

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