I will try and get some good pictures of mine. I have the metallic flake.

Question to all the violet-version JGW Seawitch PF owners...

Did anyone receive a comprehensive service bulletin from John, explaining exactly what set of holes need to be changed/moved?

I did not.

With CPR, I'm used to the dimple-template being off on some holes which ends up being a non-issue as I just use wax paper to line things up from the original, but I am not accustomed to having to change any pre-drilled holes, that is another level of DIY surgery for a guy with just a hand-held drill. Are any of these changes NOT doable with a hand-held drill?

I'm trying to put together my own service bulletin, based on what erichill provided. Can anyone else add any changes they had to make over and beyond what Erichill posted?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/would-you-prepay-500-us-for-a-new-stern-seawitch-or-star-gazer-playfield/page/48#post-6209136
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/would-you-prepay-500-us-for-a-new-stern-seawitch-or-star-gazer-playfield/page/48#post-6227848
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/would-you-prepay-500-us-for-a-new-stern-seawitch-or-star-gazer-playfield/page/48#post-6232472
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/would-you-prepay-500-us-for-a-new-stern-seawitch-or-star-gazer-playfield/page/48#post-6302576

Are the fixes limited to these 6? What tool set is required?

1. top right hole unnecessary (so I presume we can just leave it if it's covered?)
2. top right hole off for star post (how did you gather the alignment for it, did u have to plug the old hole or is it covered?)
3. widen left flipper hole (yikes ! Is it centered properly, and just needs a tiny expansion?)
4. left apron hole needs new hole (sounds like this hides ok)
5. machine for wood hole
6. wood for machine hole (how did you fix this? machine is WIDER and is a through-hole, wood is narrower and is not a through hole. Did you repack it 100% then redrill the hole? My goodness.

thanks!

As an owner of one of these playfields (who waited 6 1/2 years before receiving it) this post absolutely sickens me.

My first question to you is: Do you know how to do a hole repair by drilling out the hole and installing some dowel rod?

1. top right hole unnecessary (so I presume we can just leave it if it's covered?).

If you are talking the hole way up in the right hand arch area, you can do a hole repair, or twist a screw into the hole. Or just leave it. The arch plastic is going to cover the area and hide all that is underneath.

If leaving a hole open bothers you then you should work to fill that 1.25" tooling hole up in that corner.

image (resized).jpeg

For the post that is in the incorrect position, do this: Remove the post, install the plastic, then run a drill bit down into the empty hole in the plastic and make a mark in the wood to where the screw and post are supposed to be. If you have room to drill your mark without entering the incorrect hole the drill the hole with a 1/16" bit; If the two holes will collide then you will need to do a hole repair first and then drill your new hole. You can fill by doing a hole repair or leave it open. It will not be seen.

This one is easy. Do a hole repair. Install the apron and lock it down with the screw on the other side. Assure you have your apron positioned correctly. Then run a drill bit down the open apron hole and drill a new hole.

image (resized).jpeg

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How precise do you want this flipper bushing hole to be? If you want it to be a mirror image location to the right flipper bushing hole you are going to need your 12" scale and make some measurements. I have had move a wire flipper ball guide before. With the right tool moving the wire guide is a snap to do.

I don't understand what you are asking in #5and #6.

Don't throw up. Relax. These problems are minor. Very minor.

If you are having the same problems, they are easily fixed with minor repairs. If you have the tools and some decent shop knowledge but don't know what to do, I can walk you through it easily enough.

I sold my Greatwich Seawitch play field because I was not happy with the color. But the play field was in great condition and nicely produced. Be glad you don't have the problems that have been happening with the Mirco play fields.

So, what problems are you having with your play field?

cottonm4, Thanks for jumping in.

To recap:

1. Do we know whether those 6 issues are the total or are there any more?
2. Can all the fixes be done freehand with a power drill and a steady hand?

That does not ring a bell. I have filled and redrilled many holes with super glue and bamboo toothpicks when I need to move screw holes a few 1/64"s here and there. But nothing more than that. Which fix is that for?

I wouldn't know. I was responding to your post.

Hole repairs can done freehand.

This is what I call a hole repair. Before you can move a hole 1/16" you have to fill the hole with toothpick, dowel, bamboo. Then drill a new hole.

So what do you want to do about your flipper colliding with the ball guide wire? Do you want to move the flipper? Or do you want to move the ball guide wire?

Me? I would want measure the left flipper for a matching position with the right flipper before I start moving the flipper around. Why? Because I don't know if it is the flipper incorrectly positioned or if the wire guide is out of position.

I installed one of the early production playfields and had to do some minor adjustments. No big deal and super happy with the outcome. If people on here can't use their noodle once in a while they don't need pinball machines to work on.

cottonm4 I haven't started my SeaWitch restore, but appreciate the light that you have cast on the production issues as I will most certainly be referring back to those posts when I commence that project.

My earlier post was rooted in the fact that we waited so long for these playfields only to have color issues and CNC errors requiring (what some would consider "significant") adjustments - the flipper return area CNC problems are most egregious. If there is ANY area where you need correct cuts it is around the flippers.

I actually took my field before John cleared it just to have the field in-hand and to avoid another opportunity for delays/mistakes. That was 6.5 years after making payment. My field went to kruzman for clear coating - who, as always did a phenomenal job.

I DO have experience with Mirco - and yeah, his registration issues alone will drive you mad, but you take what you can get if you are serious about restoring a game.

I DO have experience with Mirco - and yeah, his registration issues alone will drive you mad, but you take what you can get if you are serious about restoring a game.

Thats the attitude I like and take.. About 12 years ago or so the only reproduction pfs were made by gene at IPB. They had so many differences from originals and each other, he preferred to sell them face to face at shows. so not only were there only a couple titles available, but you had to get to a show to get one. We are talking about 4 or 5 titles, period over a 8 year spread. he would do one run, and that was it. when they were gone, they were gone

Part of the cool factor of restoring and having a restored game was that you couldnt buy them at wallmart. It was a treasure hunt and you had to communicate and make friends with people.

I have experience restoring historic buildings, 1960's american cars, tube hi fi equipment, pinball, tractors. I cant think of one situation where it was just bolt on new parts.

I am not being devils advocate. I like when things go together easy, for sure!!!
If you fully restore a game, and you make it the best you can (at that time, in that situation, all things being equal) I guarantee you are better person for it. Not just because you have the nice game, but its a test of resourcefulness, and a bunch of other things. Once you have done one, I bet you have learned so much that the next one is much better and much faster.
All aspects of pin resto are so labor intensive. Each person has their level of detail. In my case thats why I cant restore games for a living. I am way too slow, and sweat the little issues, but I am good with that, and I accept it. I think once pinball gets even more commercial and popular, and all of the parts are coming from china, I am going to loose a lot of interest in it.

I have an original used sea witch pf, as well as one of john's repros, if there are any measurements that are needed, I will be happy to help.

That other poster enlarged the hole so the could move the flipper away from the the ball wire guide. I don't know if he measured anything before he moved the flipper. It very well could be the wire guide hole is what is mis-located. I say this for two reasons.

1) This is a wild assumption but I think anybody doing this work knows how critical for flippers to be in the proper position.

and

2) The right wire ball guide on my Big Game was mis-located low from the factory. And I had huge ball hop on my right flipper---as in it was hard to hit the ball because it was "hanging" in the air as it passed the flipper.

And it fell into the "nobody gives a shit" category. The pin played and for the operator that was good enough. Take in the quarters and make me money, baby. The casual player would drop a quarter or two and then move on. And the drunk would have trouble finding the slot for his quarter.

The kid I bought the pin from was 4 years when his dad brought the pin home and 20 years he never changed the silver ball.

And then I came along and I like perfection. It took me about 30 minutes move the ball guide and fix the ball hop problem.

My money is on the wire ball guide is mis-located; Not the flipper.

Anyway, my replacement Seawitch play field is too arrive today. I'll get my tools out and measure the flipper bushing holes for uniformity. I'll take pics to show you how to do these measurements.

And just for fun I'll get a scrap of wood and show you how to move a wire ball guide.

Truer words have not been spoken.

I used to be a perfectionist but eventually learned that perfection is not very affordable.

Can someone shed some light on the current PF reproduction situation with Fantastic Pinball? I know they were to pick up the mantel from John but I looked and can't find any other threads, FB page, or their website with anything useful on it. I keep seeing posts here that seem to indicate he/they are making PFs, but it's like I'm missing half a conversation or something.

Search where? I found the website, but it's basically useless, no specific information on it for anything, really. I tried the Contact Us page and got no response so far (http://fantasticpinball.com). I don't understand why this is such a secret?

Maybe try the Facebook Page and messaging, it is updated more regularly...

https://www.facebook.com/FantasticPinball/

let me phrase this one a bit better. the problem is that you have a hole that is incorrect and it is off only slightly (meaning that if you were to drill the [correct] position, a portion of the [new, correct position] hole would overlap onto where the [existing, incorrect position] hole is

while the toothpick method (cramming as many glue-covered toothpicks into the existing hole as possible and letting it set up prior to cutting off the ends of the toothpicks) will allow you to use the same hole without any further modification, a stronger solution is as follows:

- drill out the existing hole using a bit size 2-3x or larger than the existing hole (this is usually only done where the hole is covered so that the repair is not evident).
- select a section of wooden dowel that is a tight fit in the drilled hole (pre-cut and finished on at least one end so that when pounded into position, the top surface is flush with the top of the playfield)
- line the inner wall of the hole with a coating of wood glue
- cover a wooden dowel with wood glue
- gently tap the wooden dowel into the hole so that it is completely though (and flush with the topside of the playfield)
- let dry, then sand the bottom of the playfield so that the dowel is flush on both the top and bottom
- run a drill bit through where the new, correct hole needs to be positioned (using a small drill bit so that the screw has enough material to "bite" into

Go here:

Send Fantasticpinball a PM. He will get back with you.

https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders?s=1&q=fantasticpinball&ad=0&sb=user_register_date&so=asc

Yeah, posting info and updates resulted in CPR releasing the same title on the same day. I am able to sell all the playfields I make without a big public presence.

I’d love to see some photos of my playfields with their new owners. Bonus points if the playfields are installed.

Fantastic!

C3B34B50-7FAA-4FD8-86B7-0DBBCD92AA93 (resized).jpeg

My new Seawitch play field arrive a couple of hours ago.

Here is the rundown:

Opening up the box is almost blinding. The colors are beautiful. Absolutely stunning. My iPhone camera cannot do it justice. It is eye candy.

The clear is as smooth as a baby's butt.

IMG_0719 (resized).JPG

IMG_0720 (resized).JPG

Now, let's talk about that flipper business.

I did some preliminary measuring. Because the left hand side of the play field is different than the right hand side, I limited my measurements mostly from the bottom of the play field.

The tool I used was a locking machinist's T-Square.

IMG_0713 (resized).JPG

I was wrong with my assumptions I stated earlier. The wire ball guide holes are a matched measurement in front to back to back measuring.

And the left flipper hole is off on its measurement when compared to the right flipper.

This is the left flipper bushing hole. I have indexed the T-Square scale matched to the front edge of the bushing hole.

IMG_0697 (resized).jpg

Here is the right bushing hole. You can see the scale is now inside the hole.

IMG_0698 (resized).jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------

The difference can be seen better by indexing the scale to the right bushing hole.

The right bushing hole. The scale is flush with the edge of the hole.

IMG_0705 (resized).jpg

Now, the left side. You can really see the difference now. This difference measures .10". In English, the left bushing hole is sitting one tenth of an inch farther back on the play field when compared to the right. This means I am going to have to move the bushing hole down, and more than likely I will have to move it inboard, as well, but I still need to measure more.

IMG_0706 (resized).jpg

Look at the differences with these 2 pics and you can see the 2 small wire guide holes are sitting in different relative positions to the bushing holes.

Screen Shot 2022-07-26 at 2.57.48 PM (resized).jpg

Next, I'll compare the above to my OG Witch play field.

Here is the OG right hand flipper bushing. What you can't see in the pic is that the bushing is sitting tight to the edge of the hole, so this will be a comparable measurement to the above.

IMG_0723 (resized).JPG

Now the left side. As you can see, the flipper bushing hole is sitting farther back on the play field, just as the repro play field.
With Stern's play field, this gap from the scale to the edge of the hole measure .050" as opposed to the hole in the repro play field that measures .100"

IMG_0724 (resized).JPG

The final analysis here is that the repro bushing hole is sitting .050" farther back on the play field when compared to the right flipper bushing hole at .100"

I am not sure how I will resolve this issue on this play field. I may leave the flipper bushing hole where it is at and just move the wire guide hole.
==========================================

Next up:

The aft/back wire guide holes.

This is the left side aft wire guide hole. Notice how the wire guide sits directly behind the lane post.

IMG_0725 (resized).JPG

Here is the right side. It is a mirror image. The wire is directly behind the lane post.

IMG_0726 (resized).JPG

Here are the two wire guide holes in the repro

The left side. Can you see the difference?

IMG_0707 (resized).jpg

The right side. A little bit of difference.

IMG_0708 (resized).jpg

So, what does this difference in how the back end of the ball guide sits in relation to the lane post mean to the player? Let me show you my Catacomb inlanes and outlanes.

The left side

IMG_0715 (resized).JPG

The right side

IMG_0717 (resized).JPG

Notice how both ball guides are sitting inboard of the outlane posts? When I get a hot game going, every once in awhile I will have a ball slam down into the left outlane, jump the flipper gap, and roll up the right side and out of the right inlane, and then roll down for a flipper hit. This action does not happen often; But it is a gas when is does this "boomerang" move.

With the guide holes in the Seawitch repro, you will not get this kind of action. Your ball will still drain OK and there will be no performance issues.

But I like that rare boomerang action on my Catacomb so I may consider moving these two guide holes to try and capture that kind of action on Seawitch. But I will have to think about this as I continue with my other tasks.
==========================================================
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I don't see anything else on the play field I received that needs talking about. In a quick look, all parts locating holes look to be where they need to be.

And of the issues that I have touched on I don't see much to worry about. In a few days I will work up a tool that can be used to get a perfect match on the left/right positions of the flipper bushing holes.

And a REAL big plus is that Fantastikpinball is shipping with clear inserts, just like Stern factory shipped, whereas Mirco is prepping his play fields differently and the clear inserts are opaque with the sanding marks Mirco leaves in.

Bottom line: I would buy this same play field again. I would not think twice about it.

However, more even positioning of the bushing holes would be appreciated. And while the back wire guide holes will not affect game play, it would be nice if they were more uniform, as well.

Nicely done, Mr. Fantasticpinball. Nicely done.

Got my new seawitch playfield, much happier than with my Greatwhich (sold it) but I haven't done a super close inspection yet. Only thing with this one is it seems like the keylines on the bonus inserts are huge but I can't tell if they match the old ones with a glance since mine are so blown out.

20220726_172025.jpg

Thanks for posting the detailed measurements. That new playfield looks great.

I was the one who originally posted about the position of the flipper bushing hole last year. Several folks have PM'd asking how I dealt with it, so sharing those details here with the wider group:

----

I enlarged the left bushing hole.

My process was I'd take a little material off with a small Dremel sanding drum, then take a flipper bracket with just the bushing installed and use thick masking tape to temporarily mount it. I'd put the playfield in the cabinet, install a flipper bat (the alignment pin holds it in the rest position), and roll a ball down the left inlane. If the ball hopped, I'd pull the mech and make the hole a little bigger. Took about 3 times back and forth til I got it smooth. I'd also recommend using a brand new bushing since there might be some slop in the holes of a used one. New one ensures it's properly centered in the bracket.

Photos of the results here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/would-you-prepay-500-us-for-a-new-stern-seawitch-or-star-gazer-playfield/page/48#post-6232472

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All in all, I was very pleased with how the swap turned out. It looks great and it PLAYS like a Seawitch.

great post!

One Seawitch playfield available from the latest batch. First come first serve.

Fantastic!

406C3C90-9BB6-4539-AF7B-726F5D1A7B94 (resized).jpeg

40 days later. You can see the aluminum sparkles.

82630757-5456-4CA1-8DC8-09363D8650CA (resized).jpeg

B4413262-B063-4132-9E83-831CADFD15C8 (resized).jpeg

that looks really nice and given how long I waited (and was the last person on the list to be made whole), I almost feel cheated that I didn't receive one of those from fantastic pinball

I need one of these. When is the next run?

i had that feeling but then i look at my old PF and it's a great improvement.

So what happened to FantasticPinball and making PFs? Was hoping to grab a Star Gazer but all seems quiet on the whole PF front

I think, I hope he is making more Star Gazers. I have an order in for one.

So... What is going on with the latest on Stargazer is that I had to cut more wood. I finished all the stock that I had bought from John and I had to cut more. Some of that wood is cut, and in fact there were adjustments and improvements made to the CNC cut file based on customer feedback.

The next step in the process is to install the inserts. I installed inserts until I ran out, and then I ordered more. That is a long and slow process, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. IF all goes well, I will have enough inserts for a batch of 50 more SG playfields.

From the stock of inserts that I bought from John, I had enough to populate 6 SG playfields. I did that, and brought them to a company with a drum sander. Sadly, the company was a bit too aggressive with the sanding and the result is some areas of burn through on the top layer of plywood. To account for that, I am clearcoating the playfields prior to printing. This results in a perfectly flat whitewood and is very good for printing. I will have these 6 playfields printed in a few weeks, and they will go back to clearcoat.

Meanwhile, I also cut the first Big Game playfield. This is the prototype and, sadly, was one of the playfields that was oversanded. That one too is being clearcoated prior to printing, and will be printed the same time as the batch of SG.

When the inserts arrive, I will populate more playfields and will carry on with production. While I was waiting for parts, I did a few small run projects including the League Of Legends playfield, which can be seen in other posts. I also did a few backglasses. The League of Legends was a good test platform for the new CNC equipment, and the results on that playfield are quite encouraging.

I know I haven't posted much about what I'm up to. The truth is that it is hard to trust people. As you may have seen, CPR released their Seawitch playfield on the same day that I released mine. That was not a coincidence. Not only do they read these posts, but they also get reports from mutual friends. As a result, I have to talk less about my activities. I know that sucks for the news hungry crowd, but I have to protect the business investment. I have not been able to sell a single Seawitch playfield since they flooded the market with inferior product. I would probably do better with a slick web page, but I have not been able to produce that on my own, and quotes to have it built for me have been cost prohibitive.

Well, that's the news. Photos added for your entertainment.

Fantastic!

Glb-AS-PF-W (resized).JPGImage - Copy (2) (resized).jpegImage - Copy (3) (resized).jpeg

Do you have SeaWitch playfields currently available?

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1352-fantastic-pinball-inc/05514-stern-seawitch-playfield

"No one got burned by my very slow 8 year playfield journey. Should of learned to jack up the prices from the start & only sell what I had. So for all those years of selling $500 US playfields shipped to the USA, along with a shitload of discounted playfields. I made sure that even when I had to close up shop, & go through real financial pain that people still owed a Seawitch playfield got a improved version! Lots of Star Gazer & Seawitch pinball machines got improved from my efforts mostly by myself & the contractors I used"

I guess waiting 8 years or getting inferior, wrong colored playfields is not being burned.

My Star Gazer play field color was off from original, I will allow. But it was not an inferior play field. It was good quality.

John, I agree, Fantastic Pinball needs to be supported. They are the one who bailed you out. If they had not, some people still would not have a playfield. Just because everyone eventually got their product , it doesn't mean they were not burned along the way. This is the concept you refuse to accept. It's as simple as that.

I am just going to leave it at that. I am done with this subject. What needed to be said has been said.

so is Fantastic Pinball the only folks doing stargazer playfields?

Neil.

Yes.

...any word on star gazer Playfields?