(Topic ID: 243826)

Would you pay for enhanced game code and/or media additions?

By harryhoudini

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 72 posts
  • 36 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by CVeRiTy
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Topic poll

“Would you pay for downloadable enhancements and how much? ”

  • Nope, not interested 85 votes
    55%
  • Yes, $0-$99 19 votes
    12%
  • Yes, $100-299 15 votes
    10%
  • Yes, $300-599 1 vote
    1%
  • Yes, $600-1200 2 votes
    1%
  • Yes, but I need to know more to determine 32 votes
    21%

(154 votes)

There are 72 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 4 years ago

My fear would be that companies would use this to put out weak code at launch then charge more later to fix it. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that this becomes the new business model. I have never bought new in box so this would likely not effect me. But since this is just hypothetical, what would one charge for updated code? Would it be a la carte ? To add another wizard mode, or add another multi ball. Or a complete set of rules?

#52 4 years ago
Quoted from RustyLizard:

I am not talking about mind control. Tipping is a poor argument. You are comparing giving money to an individual that served you and giving money to a company that asks you to pay to get more out of the experience you have already paid for. I am not against add-ons for video or phone games. I just think greed has taken over and don't want another form of that on pinball machines that are already too expensive for many to afford.
A better argument would be advertising. It must work because they don't just spend until you know about their product. They spend until you are over-saturated with it.
So, in conclusion, not mind control but offering low value extras that some people think they need to fully enjoy the experience. That does not equal people enjoying paying more.

Every entertainment product is too expensive for many to afford so not sure how that is relevant. Pretty much every product and service expects you to pay more to get more out of the experience. Why are we assuming it is automatically low value content? Your framing your argument to make it seem like people are being suckered into spending more money and getting nothing in return. The reality is a product or service is offered that people think is worth spending their money on and it makes them happy to buy what they enjoy. If they don't enjoy it they very quickly stop spending money on it. The only part people find negative is when other people shit on them about it. If people want to spend on mods all the power to them and if a pinball company wants a piece of that pie on a product they created all the power to them. I would never buy an LE but all the power to the people that do, it feels great for them to have that fancy limited edition.

1 month later
#53 4 years ago

The minute this kind of thing is enacted companies will start slicing and dicing features to inflate revenue. It’s a terrible idea.

Online isn’t a bad idea but paid DLC absolutely is.

-1
#54 4 years ago

Yeah, I mean I guess I didn't really think about that side of it. I've seen it done successfully but I guess those instances were predisposed to "buy as you go" content or new games versus continued additions to what should be a finished product. I was more thinking it would be nice if this enabled manufacturers to continue to develop code for a game, fix issues, etc. if they had a source of revenue from code development. What drives a company to continue to develop code after a game is released.

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

What drives a company to continue to develop code after a game is released

They want people to buy $9000 games, and they release them unfinished and untested. The second anyone feels like their game won’t be finished, they get a bad rep & lose customers.

I won’t buy any new game due to them being unfinished and untested, on principal. So - people like me waiting for a finished product is also a reason to support post-release.

-1
#56 4 years ago

Having not purchased new games before I was pretty surprised that manufacturers do this.

#57 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Having not purchased new games before I was pretty surprised that manufacturers do this.

As Gary Stern said, they’re in manufacturing, not a game company. They always need the line moving. USB updates allowed them to ship product before it’s finished, and while that’s bad for those of us who know games inside and out, location players and even many home buyers don’t know the difference between a finished/unfinished game...or even a good game vs. a bad game.

And as for the original premise, paid DLC for $9000 games is a horrible idea every time someone brings it up. A game should be complete and amazing for these prices. Pinball machines aren’t Fortnite.

#58 4 years ago

To be honest, I'm surprised that modern titles are NOT online. Maybe not for loading features, but absolutely for operator maintenance & adjustables. A connected machine would allow an operator to view/change all kinds of settings and get an alert if the machine detects a problem. Does this really not exist yet?

And for what it's worth, I think a world-wide scoreboard for certain games would be pretty cool.

#59 4 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

To be honest, I'm surprised that modern titles are NOT online. Maybe not for loading features, but absolutely for operator maintenance & adjustables. A connected machine would allow an operator to view/change all kinds of settings and get an alert if the machine detects a problem. Does this really not exist yet?
And for what it's worth, I think a world-wide scoreboard for certain games would be pretty cool.

Operator stuff would be useful. Online scoreboards are irrelevant. Every machine is set up differently & plays differently. Scores on different machines don’t mean anything for people who care about scoring, and there’s no added value for someone walking up to a game. Why do I care if a machine in Los Angeles shows a score from a game in Idaho? How does that benefit me to know that information compared to the high scores on the machine I’m walking up to?

#60 4 years ago

I can think of several examples of pins that people complain about due to the code. I don't know if most pins can be made either more enjoyable or fresh by just changing the code and not redesigning the playfield. I'm thinking BOP 2.0. But maybe some of the early modern sterns could become hits after ten years.

#61 4 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

To be honest, I'm surprised that modern titles are NOT online. Maybe not for loading features, but absolutely for operator maintenance & adjustables. A connected machine would allow an operator to view/change all kinds of settings and get an alert if the machine detects a problem. Does this really not exist yet?
And for what it's worth, I think a world-wide scoreboard for certain games would be pretty cool.

There are tonne of online functionality that could be added to pinball. I think it is honestly just awareness, I don't think a lot of people in pinball have the knowledge. If they understood what online connectivity and DLC could do for the business they would be all over it. There is a stigma to it in the vocal minority and they will always scream the same tired arguments. The reality is, it makes for a much deeper more enjoyable experience.

#62 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Yeah, I mean I guess I didn't really think about that side of it. I've seen it done successfully but I guess those instances were predisposed to "buy as you go" content or new games versus continued additions to what should be a finished product. I was more thinking it would be nice if this enabled manufacturers to continue to develop code for a game, fix issues, etc. if they had a source of revenue from code development. What drives a company to continue to develop code after a game is released.

If companies actually did what you’re suggesting it would be great. However what really would happen is what’s happened in video games. There are some rare devs that do it right and everyone else uses predatory tactics.

-1
#63 4 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

To be honest, I'm surprised that modern titles are NOT online. Maybe not for loading features, but absolutely for operator maintenance & adjustables. A connected machine would allow an operator to view/change all kinds of settings and get an alert if the machine detects a problem. Does this really not exist yet?
And for what it's worth, I think a world-wide scoreboard for certain games would be pretty cool.

I agree. And for those who say the scores are irrelevant, so be it. I still can see what others are scoring even with whatever changes they have made. The game could EASILY have a gyro to tell us the tilt, the game settings are easily known, the post locations could be easily set in the software by the owner. This could all be used to gauge "complexity" and give a relative rating/weight to all scores.

All of the arguments against are just holdouts. It can all be done, it's only if it is worth it to the manufacturers which I don't think it is. They have enough interest in current games (I'm speculating) that these kinds of involved R&D for skills they probably don't have are all probably unprofitable for them at this point.

Online backups... online updates.. remote tech support... live streaming assistance (remote screen display)... add ons, modules... customized firmware/software... owner adjustments and audits... know when the game is turned on and off.. phone alerts.. mobile apps, it can go on and on. DI did a bluetooth connection to the phone, although I've never experienced it and never knew anyone who has, but the concept is sort of there. CPUs are already there, ethernet connections, easy to add wifi. It's all just a matter of programming and will.

**AND WHO THE HELL IS GOING TO FINALLY COME OUT WITH AUTOMATIC LEVELING AND BUILT IN SENSORS TO HELP MANUALLY LEVEL!?!

#64 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I agree. And for those who say the scores are irrelevant, so be it. I still can see what others are scoring even with whatever changes they have made. The game could EASILY have a gyro to tell us the tilt, the game settings are easily known, the post locations could be easily set in the software by the owner. This could all be used to gauge "complexity" and give a relative rating/weight to all scores.
All of the arguments against are just holdouts. It can all be done, it's only if it is worth it to the manufacturers which I don't think it is. They have enough interest in current games (I'm speculating) that these kinds of involved R&D for skills they probably don't have are all probably unprofitable for them at this point.
Online backups... online updates.. remote tech support... live streaming assistance (remote screen display)... add ons, modules... customized firmware/software... owner adjustments and audits... know when the game is turned on and off.. phone alerts.. mobile apps, it can go on and on. DI did a bluetooth connection to the phone, although I've never experienced it and never knew anyone who has, but the concept is sort of there. CPUs are already there, ethernet connections, easy to add wifi. It's all just a matter of programming and will.
**AND WHO THE HELL IS GOING TO FINALLY COME OUT WITH AUTOMATIC LEVELING AND BUILT IN SENSORS TO HELP MANUALLY LEVEL!?!

How hard is it to pull the glass and use a digit level. Not sure building it in to each game is worth the cost...….

#65 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

**AND WHO THE HELL IS GOING TO FINALLY COME OUT WITH AUTOMATIC LEVELING AND BUILT IN SENSORS TO HELP MANUALLY LEVEL!?!

Jack Danger...currently getting flack aboot it in another thread

-1
#66 4 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Jack Danger...currently getting flack aboot it in another thread

Explain?

-1
#67 4 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

How hard is it to pull the glass and use a digit level. Not sure building it in to each game is worth the cost...….

BUT... how hard is it to build in? I suspect it's MAYBE $5 in parts in bulk. The CPU is there. The software is there. Throw a gryrolevelometer in there (whatever the heck it is) and read the output into the CPU, process, show, audio callouts, etc. I mean, common... in this day and age a freaking spirit level? And what a fucking awesome addon, advertisement point.. "BUILT IN DIGITAL LEVELING SYSTEM, NO OTHER MANUFACTURER HAS THIS"

The digital, audio, bluetooth level I bought was $40. That's a stand alone product with much R&D and manufacturing needed, processor, etc. All the pin needs is the micro leveling sensor device gyro thingy and some code.

Throw a few stepper motors on the leg levelers and boom, auto leveling game. I'm gonna make this product.

#70 4 years ago

Let’s not give anyone any stupid ideas. That would be a real kick in the teeth.

#71 4 years ago

For new and or newer games. I would not pay the company for upgraded code. Hell no!!!!
For older games, I would gladly pay for upgraded code. Just simple things like ball save, or better diagnoses improvements. Or even free play on older Ball games.

#72 4 years ago

Two sides of the same coin. The same tech that could allow you to add value to your existing investment for a small upcharge, could also be used to hold back what we have come to expect as included for our purchase price.

I would not mind at all paying a little extra to add additional functionality onto my existing games, but it does open a pandora's box of "how many features can we remove from the standard, and charge for later".

But we shouldn't focus 100% on the downside as some people seem to be doing. There are ways that this could be accepted by the community. Maybe if the additional features aren't released until the game has been on the market for a year or two, to ensure the functionality of the original game wasn't trimmed. Or maybe the community would only accept upgrades done by another company, again some time after the initial release.

We've already paid $6-12k for the hardware and initial R&D, it would be great to add some new life into an existing investment for a small percentage of the original price. But if pinball manufacturers think that they could benefit from the same model that games use, I think many people would revolt.

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