(Topic ID: 64437)

Would you have been a buyer of ST LE at $6600?

By rai

10 years ago


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  • Latest reply 10 years ago by John_I
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“Would you have been in at $6600?”

  • YES 76 votes
    57%
  • No 57 votes
    43%

(133 votes)

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#1 10 years ago

I suppose someone at Stern reads these forums, and I know there are number crunchers at Stern to see how much they can charge for a $2000 box of wires and artwork and sounds whatnot.

I would bet, the powers that be at Stern would like to sell more games (hence 799 LE) and that they'd rather not be sitting on 499 LEs or have them in storage somewhere a year from now, although its not the end of the world to have product to sell over time; if they could sell 500 ACDC premium a year for the next 5 years what the heck, good for them, good for the end buyers etc..

But talking about the LE it's more likely a good thing to mostly sell out stock soon rather than having them trickle out over years and years like would be TF LE etc.. Otherwise the incentive to buy or the pressure to buy is less if more LEs are unsold such as TF LE and Blue Avengers, then the whole LE mania is shown to be a farce.

We have seen some pics of ST LE and know that it's fairly stripped out game, I mean low BOM rather than a game like Woz, i'm not saying a low BOM pin is bad, look at IM or Tron and see they are heck of nice games.

But lets pretend Stern would rather sell 799 games at $6600 than to sell 199 games at $7900.

I picked $6600 because that's what XM LE was give or take.

I would much much more likely be on ST LE if it were $6600 delivered.

If ST LE was priced like a normal pin, not like a premature grand slam, remember they are not selling a Tron LE even tho people know what proven code Tron LE has, and even tho they appear to have the same BOM between Tron LE and ST LE. You can't charge top dollar for a total shot in the dark (remember XM had no code whatsoever for about 9 months).

I was a XM LE buyer at $6600 and a Tron Pro buyer at $4600 and I know Tron is a top 20 game or you can buy ACDC premium for $6600 and its a top 20 also. Why would you expect to pay more for an incomplete game that is not selling well at its high asking price?.

But if they priced it at a reasonable level like I said $6600 I am sure there would be quite a lot more buyers.

#2 10 years ago
Quoted from rai:

if it were $6600 delivered.

I'm IN!

#3 10 years ago

Nope, I would not be in. If it was still the days following Tron and the greatness that is the LE? Sure. But as we all know, Tron LE wasn't sold out that fast. But it ended up being a GREAT game. If Star Trek ID LE ends up being a great game, they will disappear fast. If TFLE was a GREAT game, it would do the same. METLE and AC/DC were the strange ones. It isn't that I can't afford the 6600 bucks, it is that I don't want to risk it on them putting out a bad game. I feel like it has to be special to earn a spot in my house.

And if you look at my machines that I own, you will see one that doesn't sound like it fits the whole "Try before you buy" thing. But it does. I played a prototype before I put a dime in. Having that rule may cause me to miss out on a fantastic LE that is the best game ever, but it also keeps me away from the ones that are not as much fun and consequently drop in value.

#4 10 years ago

I believe you can get premiums (same game) for $6500

#5 10 years ago

6K is my limit, there are just too many great titles out there I have never owned and if I can get a HUO STLE down the road for that or less I would get one otherwise it isn't the end of the world.

#6 10 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Nope, I would not be in. If it was still the days following Tron and the greatness that is the LE? Sure. But as we all know, TRON LE wasn't sold out that fast. But it ended up being a GREAT game. If Star Trek ID LE ends up being a great game, they will disappear fast. If TFLE was a GREAT game, it would do the same. METLE and AC/DC were the strange ones. It isn't that I can't afford the 6600 bucks, it is that I don't want to risk it on them putting out a bad game. I feel like it has to be special to earn a spot in my house.
And if you look at my machines that I own, you will see one that doesn't sound like it fits the whole "Try before you buy" thing. But it does. I played a prototype before I put a dime in. Having that rule may cause me to miss out on a fantastic LE that is the best game ever, but it also keeps me away from the ones that are not as much fun and consequently drop in value.

Well said, should be a discount to buy a pig in a poke, I lost that gamble on XM LE, but here there is a premium ST so it it turns out to be the bees knees well I could buy a Premium. But with XM LE I was more worried as with Tron that you didn't have a premium.

I am sure Stern is worried, I hope they don't think they are immune from outside forces, remember a company called Research in Motion, later Blackberry? In a few years they could be gone. Stern was great and made great games, but as I said before when I saw what they wanted for ST LE it's said in the Bible "pride goeth before the fall" Stern said: "here's a same old box of wires, now thank me for it".

But I'm more like: "first you have to give me a kiss because I like to be kissed when someone is f^cking me"

#7 10 years ago

Yes I would of kept my order at that price for sure. I would of likely gotten it if it was even $800 more than that. Once I heard they were going to be right around 8K I was out. Had the cash but that was just too much for what was being offered IMO.

#8 10 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

I believe you can get premiums (same game) for $6500

That's a whole other pile of fish, in my world it should go like this:

Pro $4400
Premium $6000
LE $6600

#9 10 years ago

I'm in @ 4500. for the pro. All you get extra with the premium is:

Model crash effect (kinda cool)
More tri-color led's (don't care)
GI led strings (kinda cool)
Warp ramp chasers (cool)
Back box flashers (don't care)
Starfield projector (might be real cool but would have to see it)
Stainless fire button cover (don't care)
Left kickback (don't care)
Lighted Enterprise (don't care)
2 Asteroids w/flashers (cool)
Wireform ball returns (should be on all models but don't care)
2-way ball exit (really cool)
Vengeance translite (don't care-like the pro version better anyway)
Hi Def cabinet art (don't know what that means so don't care)
Powder red armor (don't like anyways)
Powder coated metal arch (not plastic)-(should be on all but don't care)
Deluxe lock down (should be on all, dammit!)

So based on the above, personally I can't justify the extra $$ but I may regret it. Oh well.

#10 10 years ago

May jump in at $4500 for a Pro if the game play is good. Asked for some quotes today. Looking forward to playing the Pro this weekend at Mortimer's in Mpls.

#11 10 years ago

Ps any dealers PM me if you can sell for my price. I'll put my money where my mouth is.

#12 10 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I suppose someone at Stern reads these forums, and I know there are number crunchers at Stern to see how much they can charge for a $2000 box of wires and artwork and sounds whatnot.
I would bet, the powers that be at Stern would like to sell more games (hence 799 LE) and that they'd rather not be sitting on 499 LEs or have them in storage somewhere a year from now, although its not the end of the world to have product to sell over time; if they could sell 500 ACDC premium a year for the next 5 years what the heck, good for them, good for the end buyers etc..
But talking about the LE it's more likely a good thing to mostly sell out stock soon rather than having them trickle out over years and years like would be TF LE etc.. Otherwise the incentive to buy or the pressure to buy is less if more LEs are unsold such as TF LE and Blue Avengers, then the whole LE mania is shown to be a farce.
We have seen some pics of ST LE and know that it's fairly stripped out game, I mean low BOM rather than a game like Woz, i'm not saying a low BOM pin is bad, look at IM or Tron and see they are heck of nice games.
But lets pretend Stern would rather sell 799 games at $6600 than to sell 199 games at $7900.
I picked $6600 because that's what XM LE was give or take.
I would much much more likely be on ST LE if it were $6600 delivered.
If ST LE was priced like a normal pin, not like a premature grand slam, remember they are not selling a TRON LE even tho people know what proven code TRON LE has, and even tho they appear to have the same BOM between TRON LE and ST LE. You can't charge top dollar for a total shot in the dark (remember XM had no code whatsoever for about 9 months).
I was a XM LE buyer at $6600 and a Tron Pro buyer at $4600 and I know Tron is a top 20 game or you can buy ACDC premium for $6600 and its a top 20 also. Why would you expect to pay more for an incomplete game that is not selling well at its high asking price?.
But if they priced it at a reasonable level like I said $6600 I am sure there would be quite a lot more buyers.

You really think they are gonna be sitting on 500 LE's?

#13 10 years ago
Quoted from smokey_789:

I'm in @ 4500. for the pro. All you get extra with the premium is:
Model crash effect (kinda cool)
More tri-color led's (don't care)
GI led strings (kinda cool)
Warp ramp chasers (cool)
Back box flashers (don't care)
Starfield projector (might be real cool but would have to see it)
Stainless fire button cover (don't care)
Left kickback (don't care)
Lighted Enterprise (don't care)
2 Asteroids w/flashers (cool)
Wireform ball returns (should be on all models but don't care)
2-way ball exit (really cool)
Vengeance translite (don't care-like the pro version better anyway)
Hi Def cabinet art (don't know what that means so don't care)
Powder red armor (don't like anyways)
Powder coated metal arch (not plastic)-(should be on all but don't care)
Deluxe lock down (should be on all, dammit!)
So based on the above, personally I can't justify the extra $$ but I may regret it. Oh well.

A lot of stuff you list as pretty cool that seems like it may be worth the extra 2k.

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

You really think they are gonna be sitting on 500 LE's?

At these prices? Yes, this is the most expensive mass produced pin yet, more expensive than Woz or The Hobbit. Yet it as the same basic wires and boards and flippers etc.. as a pin such as Tron Pro. It does have more LEDs but other than that nothing stands out as it being more costly to produce.

How many 'The Pin' did Stern sell? That also was notoriously expensive for what you got.

#15 10 years ago

I ordered at the high price, but really the prices are too high. Stern won't build all 799 if there aren't enough orders, but I suspect that after the LE video hits, they are all gone.

#16 10 years ago

Smoker I went down that same list and decided at 4500 I have half of my next new game ready to go.
Plus I hope more sales on Pros drives a focus on a great product like mET was.

#17 10 years ago

Hmmm. I wonder if I will be able to pick and choose some of these mods and add them later, kinda like ala carte. ( If the prices make sense.)

#18 10 years ago
Quoted from MnHotRod:

May jump in at $4500 for a Pro if the game play is good. Asked for some quotes today. Looking forward to playing the Pro this weekend at Mortimer's in Mpls.

My quote was $4650.

-1
#19 10 years ago

I know these threads are entertaining, but Stern doesn't care what we (or it's distributors) think. Really.

#20 10 years ago

Looks like Pro is the best value @$4750 shipped.

#21 10 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I suppose someone at Stern reads these forums, and I know there are number crunchers at Stern to see how much they can charge for a $2000 box of wires and artwork and sounds whatnot.

I stopped reading your post after this line. $2,000, really? AFter they pay all their labor, their factory, their utilities, their shipping and boxing, the licensing costs, it's only $2,000?

There's no way the margin on a pinball machine is 50%+. Other manufacturing businesses that are highly automated like automobile manufacturing is only like 8-12% between what the dealer pays and what it costs the factory to make.

Stern's gotta make money in order to stay open. They almost didn't make it during the downturn and had to take investor cash if I understand correctly. That means raising prices on what essentially is a manufactured collectible. And collectibles/art/classic autos market is taking off because of all the money sloshing around out there. I don't blame them for raising prices on what are essentially giant toys in order to keep the business going.

Sorry for the rant.

#22 10 years ago

I likely would have bought an LE at $6,600 sight unseen. Right now I am waiting to see the "extra features" on the LE to decide if I want to consider it. But at the asking price it is at it will have to WOW me to buy at this point.

#23 10 years ago

the best price I saw on MEtallica LE's was $7200 shipped.
how could it have ever been $6600?
Also $2000 cost? are you serious? Maybe raw materials, but labor in USA is where the cost comes in. be serious.

D

#24 10 years ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

I stopped reading your post after this line. $2,000, really? AFter they pay all their labor, their factory, their utilities, their shipping and boxing, the licensing costs, it's only $2,000?
There's no way the margin on a pinball machine is 50%+. Other manufacturing businesses that are highly automated like automobile manufacturing is only like 8-12% between what the dealer pays and what it costs the factory to make.
Stern's gotta make money in order to stay open. They almost didn't make it during the downturn and had to take investor cash if I understand correctly. That means raising prices on what essentially is a manufactured collectible. And collectibles/art/classic autos market is taking off because of all the money sloshing around out there. I don't blame them for raising prices on what are essentially giant toys in order to keep the business going.
Sorry for the rant.

While I agree that the $2k estimate was low, I also think that if jjp can produce woz for same price with so much more, stern's 'buy it or shut up' approach is over. Stern can ignore these posts at ther own peril.

#25 10 years ago

+1 ^^^^

It was Metallica secondary market that helped craft the new prices. 1200 dollar bump over the previous 6400 LE runs with no color display, no LCD display, no shaker, no anti-glare glass seems very opportunistic and short sighted.

This will pump new life into the 2-4k used pin market.

MK

#26 10 years ago

Bought the LE for more than that. My dealer sold original allotment , actually had an opportunity
for additional because of a European dealer that couldn't pay, and sold them immediately. After
Speaking at length with what has been shared with them, I am very happy with my purchase.
For those who never intended to buy, just gripe, just wait. More bought than you think. I have actually asked for custom mirror blades to fit side LEDs. It will be great!

#27 10 years ago

I just want to see the frikkin' lasers in my eyes.

#28 10 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

While I agree that the $2k estimate was low, I also think that if jjp can produce woz for same price with so much more, stern's 'buy it or shut up' approach is over. Stern can ignore these posts at ther own peril.

Some might argue JJP is merely ponzi-ing their low prices by taking customer A's early deposit and using it to make customer B's game. It remains to be seen whether JJPs business model is sustainable.

#29 10 years ago

If they stopped making to many models they'd be able to keep prices down having plastic verses metal on some think of the money spent on molds and development just do it the same on all it looks cheap otherwise for high 4k you should still get wire ramps and all toys what's the big difference sometimes less is more make 1 or 2 models no more pro premium le

#30 10 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I would bet, the powers that be at Stern would like to sell more games (hence 799 LE) and that they'd rather not be sitting on 499 LEs or have them in storage somewhere a year from now

Stern won't be. Distributors will be. From what I've heard the LE's are still available but it doesn't sound like they aren't selling. I'm not sure why the assumption is that LE's are now supposed to sell in 20 minutes like MOPLE when back then everyone was pointing out what an anomaly that was. Limited Edition doesn't mean OMG SELL OUT. It means theres a finite number that is theoretically small enough to be exclusive.

We have seen some pics of ST LE and know that it's fairly stripped out game, I mean low BOM rather than a game like Woz, i'm not saying a low BOM pin is bad, look at IM or Tron and see they are heck of nice games.

The fight between JJP and Stern is irrelevant and is just fishing for arguments. Calling it 'stripped out' is silly because you are suggesting they are dialing back the original gameplan, which you do not know anything about (i presume?). From what i've seen STLE has just as much crap in/on it as MOPLE, and some stuff we haven't ever seen on a Stern - full RGB lighting and this lazer thingamajig. The pro model is the one that I'd buy being "stripped out" if you compare to Metallica pro.

But lets pretend Stern would rather sell 799 games at $6600 than to sell 199 games at $7900.

Ridiculous argument IMO. Of course they would want that, basic grade 4 (maybe highschool level now?) math tells you those numbers are wildly different. The problem with your argument is the third option you left out:

799 games at $7900. You have no proof this is unattainable, you're just saying it's so. If the game becomes as in-demand as Tron LE became, this 799 number will not be enough.

I would much much more likely be on ST LE if it were $6600 delivered.

No kidding.

If ST LE was priced like a normal pin not like a premature grand slam,

Umm what is a normal pin? I personally would be using Stern as the baseline for normal as they have been the entire market for what, over a decade? JJP is the new 'normal'? And every company everywhere sells their new products as "the next greatest thing". Thats the point of new products.

I was a XM LE buyer at $6600 and a Tron Pro buyer at $4600 and I know Tron is a top 20 game or you can buy ACDC premium for $6600 and its a top 20 also. Why would you expect to pay more for an incomplete game that is not selling well at its high asking price?.
But if they priced it at a reasonable level like I said $6600 I am sure there would be quite a lot more buyers.

WAIT AND PLAY THE GAME. Its not Stern taking this 'shot in the dark', its you. I'm sorry but your whole post reads like this:

"I want a STLE but it costs too much, therefore Stern should charge what I want to pay"

#31 10 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I know these threads are entertaining, but Stern doesn't care what we (or it's distributors) think. Really.

That's OK because I could not care less what Stern thinks.

Stern becomes less relevant by the minute with the emergence of new manufacturers.

#32 10 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Why would you expect to pay more for an incomplete game that is not selling well at its high asking price?.

1) "Not selling well" -but of course you don't have a SHRED of evidence as to how many sold right?
2) The game has not yet been released.
3) It's not a failure if they sell all the LEs "eventually" -even if it takes a month or two.

Seriously man, I don't get it. To me, this just sounds like you're whining because you don't want to pay more. None of us do. In Ontario, we pay an EXTRA 13% for taxes. Wish I don't have to pay those either.
None of us NEED new in box pinball machines. They're luxuries. None of us NEED LEs. They are the ultimate luxuries as far as pinball is concerned.

Here's my advice: wait for the game to be released. If it sucks, you might get a deal on an LE down the road. If the game is fantastic, then save some money and buy a Premium.

PEOPLE WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE PRICE OF AN LE SHOULDN'T BE BUYING LEs!

Now put on your big-boy pants and go play some pinball!

#33 10 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

That's OK because I could not care less what Stern thinks.
Stern becomes less relevant by the minute with the emergence of new manufacturers.

It's funny the hate for Stern. If the economy or even just pinball in general took a price nosedive like everyone seems to want, it would likely be JJP, not Stern who would be closing doors.

I'm far from a Stern lover, but they have built up a working business model, like it or not, and they have shown they can adapt to crisis like 2008.

#34 10 years ago

I imagine there are a decent number of people that will say "YES!" in your poll that wouldn't really cough up the money if Stern lowered the price to $6600.

#35 10 years ago
Quoted from dgoett:

the best price I saw on MEtallica LE's was $7200 shipped.
how could it have ever been $6600?
Also $2000 cost? are you serious? Maybe raw materials, but labor in USA is where the cost comes in. be serious.
D

You mean the poverty wages they already pay their employees? What are they deserving of? $5.00/hr.?

#36 10 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

It's funny the hate for Stern.

It's funny the hate for any company turning out new pinball machines. You might not like the new pin but you're free not to buy it. If Gary and Jack colluded to fix the price of pins in a specific range, then you'd have the right to complain.

#37 10 years ago

I can tell you that I paid under $7200 shipped for my MetLE....and so did a buddy of mine. It was closer to $6600 not shipped... than $7200 shipped. It was the first NIB pin bought since 2008 (FGY from Starburst in Cananda) so it's not like I had frequent flyer miles. I would guess a return customer that has bought numerous pins would have probably been right at $6600 before shipping.

Quoted from dgoett:

the best price I saw on MEtallica LE's was $7200 shipped.
how could it have ever been $6600?
Also $2000 cost? are you serious? Maybe raw materials, but labor in USA is where the cost comes in. be serious.
D

#38 10 years ago

Stern almost went out of business selling machines for the prices everyone today wants them for. Something had to give.

WOZ is a beautiful thing, but reports are it's a break-even venture for JJP, that is not sustainable, there has to be some meat on the bone.

#39 10 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Stern almost went out of business selling machines for the prices everyone today wants them for. Something had to give.
WOZ is a beautiful thing, but reports are it's a break-even venture for JJP, that is not sustainable, there has to be some meat on the bone.

I would like to read one of these reports. Can you post a link?

Thanks.

#40 10 years ago

I'm in for a STLE at 9k

#41 10 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I would like to read one of these reports. Can you post a link?
Thanks.

As soon as the report from the OP about stern unable to sell all 799 STLEs comes in I'm sure that report will materialize too

#42 10 years ago

I would be in, but we in Aus have been slogged with
Pro's - $6950
Premium's - $9000
LE - $10500

needless to say not many LE's coming to Aus

#43 10 years ago

What did you guys pay for your STLE's?

#44 10 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Nope, I would not be in. If it was still the days following Tron and the greatness that is the LE? Sure. But as we all know, TRON LE wasn't sold out that fast. But it ended up being a GREAT game. If Star Trek ID LE ends up being a great game, they will disappear fast. If TFLE was a GREAT game, it would do the same. METLE and AC/DC were the strange ones. It isn't that I can't afford the 6600 bucks, it is that I don't want to risk it on them putting out a bad game. I feel like it has to be special to earn a spot in my house.
And if you look at my machines that I own, you will see one that doesn't sound like it fits the whole "Try before you buy" thing. But it does. I played a prototype before I put a dime in. Having that rule may cause me to miss out on a fantastic LE that is the best game ever, but it also keeps me away from the ones that are not as much fun and consequently drop in value.

So... Now that I have played the PRO, I'm ready to change my answer. Yes, if the LE was $6600 I would be calling distributors right this moment shopping for one. I think the game has a ton of potential to be a great game. Sure, they will need to back it up with good software, but the table has the shots. And of course I know the game isn't being sold anywhere near 6600.

Stern has a winner if they finish it (I know, that tacked on bit is annoying, but the game isn't complete and this one needs complete software).

#45 10 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

So... Now that I have played the PRO, I'm ready to change my answer. Yes, if the LE was $6600 I would be calling distributors right this moment shopping for one. I think the game has a ton of potential to be a great game. Sure, they will need to back it up with good software, but the table has the shots. And of course I know the game isn't being sold anywhere near 6600.
Stern has a winner if they finish it (I know, that tacked on bit is annoying, but the game isn't complete and this one needs complete software).

Glad to hear the Pro left its mark on you. I'm in for an LE but haven't seen the Pro yet -though I've been pleased to see that it's making waves on Pinside.

#46 10 years ago

This is the backbox change (if this uploads from my phone)...

It is the bottom block of wood that changed. The one on the right is MET.

image.jpgimage.jpg

#47 10 years ago
Quoted from swinks:

I would be in, but we in Aus have been slogged with
Pro's - $6950
Premium's - $9000
LE - $10500

needless to say not many LE's coming to Aus

Don't know but I'm thinking Stern just priced themselves out of the overseas market at 10,500/9000....but hey, if people spend that kind of jack on every new release then kudos....

I would have paid the 7800 they want for the Le if it had the Lcd, end of story........now I'm in for the premium if anything down the road, what the heck, I just now picked up Ac/dc premium and am fired up about that one!.......I had done the pre order route and the disappointment factor on the Le price without the extras decided it for me......pretty clear they thought they could sell 799 of these and just pocket the "flipper" profits in the process....that's not gonna happen imho....

I think we will see Le's drift downward on ST like they have on TF, Xmen and TAV, time will tell!

I think the pro looks like it has great value!

#48 10 years ago

At these prices, whatever the pin and whomever the manufacturer, for me the product needs at least ONE of the following:

-a ton of hardware;
-significant innovation;
-(confidence in eventually) complete software.

In the absence of all three of these factors, the only thing that trumps the absence of above:

-fun.

Since that is subjective, it means that I need to play before I buy with STID. Given that this is SR, and I love the license, and that reports have been pretty positive for the Pro, I am hopeful. But at $8k, or even $6.6k, those rules I posted above apply for me.

#49 10 years ago

Don't you think the grill is the same texture at the star fleet uniform? I've got the movie in HD and that's the texture of the SF uniform. Yes I would buy at $6600 but I was in the mid $7500 range for mine.

#50 10 years ago

BTW I personally think the pro is a great option. If I didn't know there was a LE or Premium the Pro looks to be a great buy in the $4600 range.

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Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods
From: $ 8.00
Cabinet - Other
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
Other
$ 49.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
Toppers
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