Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:True story: I came this close to designing a Russell Crowe's Noah game.
That would have turned Heighway's fortunes around 
.
(Topic ID: 209912)
Fullerton, CA
Quoted from boustrophedonic:Over 70% of Americans self-identify as Christians. That's a pretty big market.
well shit by that logic a pinball themed around elbows would be even more popular, since 99%+ of us have elbows.
just because someone's a Christian, that doesn't mean they're interested in a bible-themed pinball machine.
I wonder more about bible pinballs now.
my beliefs are very different than most people's. But similar.
The polarization draws us to the theme. So when done "right". We have a crapload of eyes on this. It could be crazy for spreading pinball love.
Spreading pinball love. I like that.
Toronto, ON
Quoted from pezpunk:well shit by that logic a pinball themed around elbows would be even more popular
Rollerelbows
Elbow Station
Black Elbows 2000
I think you’re on to something here.
Merthyr Tydfil
It is true, this was when the movie was in pre-production; it seems Aranovsky wanted one and had his licensing people reach out. I don't know who else would have been contacted at the time but nobody wanted to touch it with a barge pole, until curiosity got the better of me and I started looking past the subject matter, the same way Ben is doing now, to see how it could function as an interesting game. Ultimately it fell through when, if I remember right, there was a turnover of staff in the studio licensing department and the director himself lost interest. Had it gone ahead I would have made it as the first split-level game in years; lower level the surface world, upper level the ark, a player-controlled movable top deck, and lighting that would have turned completely blue when the 'flood' took place.
Quoted from benheck:I know it would make a great pinball because it's filled with familiar stories that all revolve around numbers and repetition. The rules write themselves and there's great potential for depth....People need to stop thinking about Veggie Tales Sunday School type stuff - this would be "God of War in the Old Testament"....Religion is practically nostalgia at this point. As long as you make something "cool" and not "preachy" I think it would have wider appeal than you think.
I was having a really hard time envisioning that this would be something I would be interested in until I read this. I think I see where you’re coming from now and I agree it could make for a great pinball machine. You wouldn’t have to be a religious person at all to enjoy it. I hope you are able to make it and I get to play one some day.
I know of Ben from the video game world, where Bible Adventures is an infamously-unlicensed Nintendo/Genesis game. The thought of adapting it into an unlicensed pinball machine made me laugh out loud. I hope this is where the concept started, but I agree that it has potential as a well-known theme with lots of action. Tricky waters though.
So you are gonna take a theme that really only appeals to holy rollers, and defang it so it appeals to "everybody?"
I don't know. I kinda feel like if you are really gonna do this, you gotta go all the way with it and make it something your most churched up Sunday school teacher is gonna embrace. Or else why bother?
Quoted from Azmodeus:my beliefs are very different than most people's. But similar.
I know I'm going too regret this...but explain?
Levi, catering to "super holy rollers" would be a mistake. I don't want the "fire and brimstone" Southern Baptist "follow us or die" type of thing. This game isn't preaching a lifestyle.
Rather it's about EVENTS. Fighting lions and Philistines. Knocking down walls. Floods. Loads of Egyptians dying. Stuff falling out of the sky. Michael Bay meets the 10 Commandments.
There are things I would avoid - like Sodom and Gamorrah for obvious reasons. Oh and the entire New Testament.
You don't have to be a holy roller - just someone who doesn't hate religion, likes pinball, and has 7k to spend. I think more people would land inside than Venn diagram than you might think.
Quoted from benheck:You don't have to be a holy roller - just someone who doesn't hate religion, likes pinball, and has 7k to spend. I think more people would land inside than Venn diagram than you might think.
So close...
Quoted from benheck:Levi, catering to "super holy rollers" would be a mistake. I don't want the "fire and brimstone" Southern Baptist "follow us or die" type of thing. This game isn't preaching a lifestyle.
Rather it's about EVENTS. Fighting lions and Philistines. Knocking down walls. Floods. Loads of Egyptians dying. Stuff falling out of the sky. Michael Bay meets the 10 Commandments.
There are things I would avoid - like Sodom and Gamorrah for obvious reasons. Oh and the entire New Testament.
You don't have to be a holy roller - just someone who doesn't hate religion, likes pinball, and has 7k to spend. I think more people would land inside than Venn diagram than you might think.
It's an interesting proposition. People keep bringing up the church/youth group angle. Is a Bible-themed game that ISN'T preachy and contains zero Jesus gonna work for them? This game indeed does seem like won't appeal to the holy rollers.
Honestly I'm sure if this thing ever got made, SOMEBODY would buy it, if the market stays as it is. There's a whole bunch of themes - boutique and mainstream - that have been made recently that I never would have believed would get made.
Quoted from benheck:My leaving Spooky had nothing to do with Bible Adventures.
I know it would make a great pinball because it's filled with familiar stories that all revolve around numbers and repetition. The rules write themselves and there's great potential for depth.
Are you thinking tongue in cheek and humor... or 'christian bookstore' take on the stories?
Quoted from flynnibus:Are you thinking tongue in cheek and humor... or 'christian bookstore' take on the stories?
Probably depends on the 'christian bookstore' you are visiting. It sounds to me that he's talking about taking from the source material, the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible), but perhaps adding some humor that would not intentionally poke fun or contradict. I believe the example given was David saying, "Hmm...I thought you would be bigger." when meeting Goliath. Think of a game like Wrath of Olympus. I don't know anyone that follows Greek Mythology as a religion, but they could conceivably play the game without being offended. Likewise the rest of us can play a game based on a religion without being offended. It doesn't matter if you believe in either as religion or historically accurate; they are still interesting (sometimes violent) stories. I can see some thinking that's not a fair comparison, but the source material for both overlap historically.
Quoted from Astropin:I know I'm going too regret this...but explain?
I have a very strong background in religion on this planet. It is unique because of my whole life. I was a catholic school student when my mother got a divorce in 1976. I began to see the chinks.
I attended and paid attention at a megachurch for more than fifteen years. This was saddle back church.
It leaves pinball and becomes a taboo subject here now.
I am an open book, but I hate to close down a good thread. My input on religion in this world. Is a work in progress. Thanks for asking.
Mode example: Noah's Ark.
Mode starts, there's a hurry-up timer to collect "2 of every animal". All stand ups light, hit each one twice to collect animal pair.
Once you've collected enough, the Roto-Scoop lights to start Ark Multiball. "GET TO THE ARK!!!!!" BUT you can keep collecting animals until the animated water reaches the ark (on the display) using your leftover time. The extra pairs would work towards your MB multiplier.
When you shoot the scoop or time runs out to start MB, we see the Ark door close and some weird, clearly extinct animal "just misses the boat" - that's an example of humor that could more or less fits the theme.
Game goes dark, thunder and lightning. Four ball MB, a 40 second timer starts (40 days and nights of flood). Shaker goes off constantly. No music, just sound FX. Using RGB inserts, blue "leaks" appear on the playfield and start to spread. Make the shot to "patch" the leak, this acts as your MB Jackpot.
If you keep 2 balls or more after the 40 seconds you go into the next stage of the story.
Get caught cussing while you play and you need to insert a quarter before the scoring will continue.
Quoted from Rascal_H:How cool would a stained glass backglass be though?
I love that art style, period. That would be a cool way of tying together various modes on the playfield. Each mode lights a section of the window as you finish it.
Quoted from benheck:If you keep 2 balls or more after the 40 seconds you go into the next stage of the story.
Has to go into some type of "rainbow bonus" wouldn't it.
If you can promise me a good Charlton Heston impersonator does the bulk of the voiceover I'll certainly be interested.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:So you are gonna take a theme that really only appeals to holy rollers, and defang it so it appeals to "everybody?"
I don't know. I kinda feel like if you are really gonna do this, you gotta go all the way with it and make it something your most churched up Sunday school teacher is gonna embrace. Or else why bother?
Quoted from benheck:You don't have to be a holy roller - just someone who doesn't hate religion, likes pinball, and has 7k to spend. I think more people would land inside than Venn diagram than you might think.
The "doesn't hate religion" is probably too broad. Many of the stories of the Old Testament are so fantastical (to a non-believer) that only the hardcore haters are not entertained at least a little by the stories. For example, I don't see how anyone could not be entertained by the Charlton Heston "Ten Commandments" movie. It is akin to the movie "Clash of the Titans" to a non-religious person with the main difference being the Greek gods are no longer commonly worshipped in modern society.
Quoted from Azmodeus:I have a very strong background in religion on this planet. It is unique because of my whole life. I was a catholic school student when my mother got a divorce in 1976. I began to see the chinks.
I attended and paid attention at a megachurch for more than fifteen years. This was saddle back church.
It leaves pinball and becomes a taboo subject here now.
I am an open book, but I hate to close down a good thread. My input on religion in this world. Is a work in progress. Thanks for asking.
I also have a strong background in religion...but only as a child. Attended church every Sunday and even "Sunday School" in my younger days. By the time I reached High School I was already well on my way to becoming an atheist. Just the way my mind works I guess. I always had a heavy slant towards science...and unlike others I could never reconcile the two...one had to go and it wasn't going to be science.
Today I consider myself (If I must use a label) an "Evidentialist". More specifically William K Clifford's 1877 - "The Ethics of Belief" http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/Clifford_ethics.pdf
(Clifford's Principle) “It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone to believe anything on insufficient evidence.”
(Clifford's Other Principle) “It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone to ignore evidence that is relevant to his beliefs, or to dismiss relevant evidence in a facile way.”
Clifford's big controversy is that he attributes a "moral duty" to believing things only upon the weight of the evidence to support that belief. AKA...it is immoral to hold a belief without sufficient evidence.
Now one can always get into a debate on what constitutes sufficient evidence? Obviously I personally follow the rules of evidence as governed by science.
Actually, narrating the whole thing with the Church Lady would be hilarious.
THAT is the angle, and I bet Dana Carvey would not be too expensive.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Get caught cussing while you play and you need to insert a quarter before the scoring will continue.
How about a "Pass the Plate" mode -- ball gets held in the scoop 'til you cough up another quarter.
Then again, I guess this is "Bible Adventures" not "Church: The Pinball."
The modes for this pin absolutely lend themselves well to pinball. I would love to see how the playfield layout would bring it all together.
On a side note it could be a fun/interactive way for kids to generate interest in learning more about the stories of the old testament. Thats where I see potential buyers from church groups. Although that's most likely not Ben's angle I could see this as a bonus for sales.
In any event if it was a fun shooting pin I would definitely be a buyer at 7K.
Quoted from acedanger:How about a Hitler Pin instead?
Not to question your instincts, but maybe this is why Ben Heck’s the game designer and you’re just some dude from Rhode Island ...
Quoted from pezpunk:well shit by that logic a pinball themed around elbows would be even more popular, since 99%+ of us have elbows.
I doubt that the 1% in this case would even care about pinball.
Quoted from benheck:There are things I would avoid - like Sodom and Gamorrah for obvious reasons. Oh and the entire New Testament.
Quoted from benheck:goes right to Revelations for End Times Wizard Mode.
So, which is it chief? Inquiring minds want to know.
Quoted from benheck:Mode example: Noah's Ark.
Mode starts, there's a hurry-up timer to collect "2 of every animal". All stand ups light, hit each one twice to collect animal pair.
Once you've collected enough, the Roto-Scoop lights to start Ark Multiball. "GET TO THE ARK!!!!!" BUT you can keep collecting animals until the animated water reaches the ark (on the display) using your leftover time. The extra pairs would work towards your MB multiplier.
When you shoot the scoop or time runs out to start MB, we see the Ark door close and some weird, clearly extinct animal "just misses the boat" - that's an example of humor that could more or less fits the theme.
Game goes dark, thunder and lightning. Four ball MB, a 40 second timer starts (40 days and nights of flood). Shaker goes off constantly. No music, just sound FX. Using RGB inserts, blue "leaks" appear on the playfield and start to spread. Make the shot to "patch" the leak, this acts as your MB Jackpot.
If you keep 2 balls or more after the 40 seconds you go into the next stage of the story.
Ha...doesn't sound like your done with pinball yet...knew it!
Quoted from benheck:Mode example: Noah's Ark.
Mode starts, there's a hurry-up timer to collect "2 of every animal". All stand ups light, hit each one twice to collect animal pair.
Once you've collected enough, the Roto-Scoop lights to start Ark Multiball. "GET TO THE ARK!!!!!" BUT you can keep collecting animals until the animated water reaches the ark (on the display) using your leftover time. The extra pairs would work towards your MB multiplier.
When you shoot the scoop or time runs out to start MB, we see the Ark door close and some weird, clearly extinct animal "just misses the boat" - that's an example of humor that could more or less fits the theme.
Game goes dark, thunder and lightning. Four ball MB, a 40 second timer starts (40 days and nights of flood). Shaker goes off constantly. No music, just sound FX. Using RGB inserts, blue "leaks" appear on the playfield and start to spread. Make the shot to "patch" the leak, this acts as your MB Jackpot.
If you keep 2 balls or more after the 40 seconds you go into the next stage of the story.
Quoted from kidchrisso:Ha...doesn't sound like your done with pinball yet...knew it!
With ideas and creativity like this, and the ability to execute them, let's hope he's not done.
Quoted from benheck:Mode example: Noah's Ark. (...) Game goes dark, thunder and lightning. Four ball MB, a 40 second timer starts (40 days and nights of flood). Shaker goes off constantly. No music, just sound FX. Using RGB inserts, blue "leaks" appear on the playfield and start to spread. Make the shot to "patch" the leak, this acts as your MB Jackpot.
If you keep 2 balls or more after the 40 seconds you go into the next stage of the story.
If you can keep 2 balls or more in play while the motion base rolls the cabinet side to side...
... and the actuators in the legs double as an auto-leveling system! (I think I've been following Josef Průša too long...)
Quoted from RCA1:Ben seems like a trustworthy, well respected, honest, above board, brilliant, motivated guy.
Jpop also did.
Quoted from Astropin:I also have a strong background in religion...but only as a child. Attended church every Sunday and even "Sunday School" in my younger days. By the time I reached High School I was already well on my way to becoming an atheist. Just the way my mind works I guess. I always had a heavy slant towards science...and unlike others I could never reconcile the two...one had to go and it wasn't going to be science.
Today I consider myself (If I must use a label) an "Evidentialist". More specifically William K Clifford's 1877 - "The Ethics of Belief" http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/Clifford_ethics.pdf
(Clifford's Principle) “It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone to believe anything on insufficient evidence.”
(Clifford's Other Principle) “It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone to ignore evidence that is relevant to his beliefs, or to dismiss relevant evidence in a facile way.”
Clifford's big controversy is that he attributes a "moral duty" to believing things only upon the weight of the evidence to support that belief. AKA...it is immoral to hold a belief without sufficient evidence.
Now one can always get into a debate on what constitutes sufficient evidence? Obviously I personally follow the rules of evidence as governed by science.
I hope we will talk about this again. I am extremely skeptical. That is why it is going to be so much fun moving forward. I now see things I never saw before. I am very heavily influenced by Rick warren and his thinking. But.
Because of my background, I am no one persons pupil, anymore. Heavily influenced. By a couple people.
I struggled and struggled with belief. I still do. Like all of us, on this planet.
But one of the things I have noticed about humanity is that we always think the best things will happen to us, specifically us.
We are so self centered. But how else can we be?
We neglect to realize, equally bad things can happen to all of us too. In our self centered world this seems to escape many people I know.
I simply prepare for the worst and hope for the best, now.
It is not simple.
All of my background is coming into play now. And my motivations. Both New and old.
On this planet we are all in this together. I think the whole of this world needs to act that way. It doesn't matter if we believe in God. We need to believe in "us".
We are very good at predicting success in ourselves. Can we now apply that faith in ourselves onto our race as a whole?
I say our potential is limitless. As a species. Almost limitless. (Death limits us on this planet, for instance. Without exception.)
I ramble. I hope we talk about this again. I'm going to link a video. It's because I have a song for everything.
Changes- yes.
Quoted from benheck:There are things I would avoid - like Sodom and Gamorrah for obvious reasons.
I'm out.
Quoted from Azmodeus:I struggled and struggled with belief. I still do. Like all of us, on this planet.
Being an "evidentialist" I really don't struggle with belief. I believe things to the degree that there is scientific evidence to hold that belief. Which means my belifs are never set in stone. As new evidence arises my beliefs adjust. It also means that I believe nothing 100% (falsifiability). So my range is roughly 0-99% (God to Gravity).
Quoted from Azmodeus:I simply prepare for the worst and hope for the best, now.
It is not simple
I've heard this a lot. I do not do this. Preparing for the worst is too much stress / work. Just bring it... and I'll do my best to handle it. But I'm not going to worry about it ahead of time.
Quoted from GotAQuestion:Bible? No, sorry. Not interested, even if it's incredibly satirical.
People don't get it. Look, this theme does not have to pick sides. It doesn't have to be reverential OR satirical. Watch, Ben just described Noah's mode: Alright, at the end of the mode, regardless of how well you've done, the dinosaurs miss the boat and kangaroos are shown hopping their way from Mt. Ararat across SE Asia and off to Australia. This is an, "Ahh... Poor dinosaurs. Go you plucky marsupials!" faith affirming mystery moment for the devout, and a hilarious joke to atheists. All in one. It doesn't have to mock anyone.
The stories that affirm the faith of appolgetics are the same exact things that atheists find ridiculous, even if you just treat the material literally.
Quoted from navajas:People don't get it. Look, this theme does not have to pick sides. It doesn't have to be reverential OR satirical. Watch, Ben just described Noah's mode: Alright, at the end of the mode, regardless of how well you've done, the dinosaurs miss the boat and kangaroos are shown hopping their way from Mt. Ararat across SE Asia and off to Australia. This is an, "Ahh... Poor dinosaurs. Go you plucky marsupials!" faith affirming mystery moment for the devout, and a hilarious joke to atheists. All in one. It doesn't have to mock anyone.
The stories that affirm the faith of appolgetics are the same exact things that atheists find ridiculous, even if you just treat the material literally.
Oh I get it... I'm just not interested. Not saying I wouldn't play it...I would, I just wouldn't own it.
Quoted from Astropin:Oh I get it... I'm just not interested. Not saying I wouldn't play it...I would, I just wouldn't own it.
That's where I'm at on it also, I'd gladly play it but not own it. Ironically, I also wouldn't have a Playboy machine in my collection and for similar reasons.
Benny? Hell yeah. Bible Adventures? No. Book was boring and outdated. Too many remakes done already for movies.
Quoted from Mr68:That's where I'm at on it also, I'd gladly play it but not own it. Ironically, I also wouldn't have a Playboy machine in my collection and for similar reasons.
I guess I’m weird, I’d gladly own both Bible Adventures and Playboy. 
. Though I wouldn’t risk placing them side by side.
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