(Topic ID: 256088)

Would you expect a seller to actively disclose this damage?


By spblat

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 64 posts
  • 44 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by Cozmos001
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic poll

    “Your thoughts?”

    • Wow. Really not ok. Seller needs to make it right somehow. 40 votes
      41%
    • Ehh. If everything else is fine with the game(s), let it go. 40 votes
      41%
    • This thread is dumb 17 votes
      18%

    (97 votes)

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 4 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    9C16D317-CFDA-467C-9167-153032450BE2 (resized).jpeg
    82EC0265-4A95-497D-A1A6-8D557C23CC43 (resized).jpeg
    EBC83225-DC0D-4CEB-8D2C-28461579BC32 (resized).jpeg
    88303E36-B2D5-4704-9FE4-6F76CA9E71FB (resized).jpeg

    There are 64 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 7 months ago

    I’m not disclosing the seller’s name because we haven’t yet discussed this. How would you approach this?
    82EC0265-4A95-497D-A1A6-8D557C23CC43 (resized).jpeg88303E36-B2D5-4704-9FE4-6F76CA9E71FB (resized).jpeg9C16D317-CFDA-467C-9167-153032450BE2 (resized).jpegEBC83225-DC0D-4CEB-8D2C-28461579BC32 (resized).jpeg

    ETA: the games were beautifully packed. This didn’t happen during shipping.

    10
    #2 7 months ago

    That's the kind of thing, if I was aware, I would mention. I also think it's not a big deal. Judging by the rust on the hinge it wasn't a restored game.

    #3 7 months ago

    Yep. I feel like I paid a premium price but it wasn’t offered as a restored machine.

    #4 7 months ago

    It appears the seller put the bolt in the other place to keep it from getting lost so would have been aware of this damage. Also based on the wood I would say this happened while the seller was prepping for sale. I would have said something about it sorry x happened because of Y. but this is a ton of speculation.

    #5 7 months ago

    I would expect a seller to disclose any and all damage via description and/or photos. That has not always been the case unfortunately when I've bought games.

    I personally provide a ton of pics and list any defects that I'm aware of whenever I sell a game as I don't want a buyer to have any surprises, regrets, or excuse to cancel a deal.

    19
    #6 7 months ago

    Never buy a game that you cant see in person unless you 100% trust the person who is selling it to you.

    #7 7 months ago

    Experienced seller, 100% positive feedback

    19
    #8 7 months ago
    Quoted from spblat:

    I’m not disclosing the seller’s name because we haven’t yet discussed this.

    Quoted from spblat:

    Experienced seller, 100% positive feedback

    Why not message the seller first and see if the two of you can resolve it first instead of starting a thread about it.

    Doesnt matter what others think if your not happy contact the seller.

    #9 7 months ago
    Quoted from spblat:

    Experienced seller, 100% positive feedback

    Hopefully not for long. If you're not happy, at least warn the next potential buyer so they know to specifically ask questions about condition, even if it cannot be seen when the game is setup.

    21
    #10 7 months ago

    Honestly, no. That damage is the type of thing I would have completely forgotten about once the machine was set up as I'm sure the seller did. Personally, I wouldn't sweat it. Just play pinball.

    #11 7 months ago

    I would expect it to be disclosed and I would if I was the seller, but it's also fairly minor. Based on the wood putty on the corner it looks like it happened a while ago. An honest seller might forget about it since it is out of sight when the machine is set up.

    How big of a deal is it for you? How much less do you value the machine because of this?

    Also, how was the machine described/advertised?

    EDIT: ^^^ he beat me to it

    #12 7 months ago

    Ideally, all damage should be mentioned. If they know about it. However, that is minor and I wouldn't let it cost me a moments rest.

    10
    #13 7 months ago

    If it was a newer machine (1-5 years old), or a home use only/low play machine (from say 5-10 years old), I would expect hard to find damage to be disclosed if the seller knows about it.

    On a machine 20+ years old like a System 11, unrestored, nah...most games that old have been moved around and set up so many times, there will be some degree of damage done and getting into every little detail is unnecessary in my opinion.

    #14 7 months ago
    Quoted from ReplayRyan:

    ... On a machine 20+ years old like a System 11, unrestored, nah...most games that old have been moved around and set up so many times, there will be some degree of damage done and getting into every little detail is unnecessary in my opinion.

    Thus the beauty of complete photos. ESPECIALLY on a game that you're willing to ship and therefore may have a buyer that won't see it in person until afterwards.

    #15 7 months ago
    Quoted from Mitch:

    Why not message the seller first and see if the two of you can resolve it first instead of starting a thread about it.

    Because I didn’t want to go off half-cocked and actually wanted folks’ opinions. I’ll mention it to the seller and then let it go. Thanks to all for the input

    #16 7 months ago

    Is is pretty obvious from the rust on the hinges this is not a collector quality game, and if it was advertised as such, I might be a little bent. Otherwise I would look for the easiest way to fix it so it could perform as it was meant to.

    Like others said, if you don't go inspect the game in person, it is up to you to ask for pictures of every part of the machine that might concern you. I as a seller would have pointed it out though.

    -1
    #17 7 months ago

    Normally I would say yes, but the game looks pretty rough....

    #18 7 months ago

    Is this something that should have been talked about yes. My guess is past owner got it that way and just blew if off as a minor issue that doesn't effect game play. Now not being able to see discussion in sale or ad that was seen can't say it is all bad unless it was billed as nice/mint game aka 10k by x-mas unicorn type. As others in thread have said new game 5 yrs or less i be fussing. But over 10 years old probably routed at one time you can figure some cabinet damage.

    I haven't had many games sold to me hiding major damage yet. But then again i'm buying nice /players or worse games sold in the as is or semi working so i can't expect top shelf stuff.

    #19 7 months ago

    I've said (and been flamed) that I as a buyer always request HIGH RES photos of every angle. Apparently sellers feel it's too much to ask and will wait for another buyer because I'm automatically difficult to work with. If you had HIGH RES photos from every angle you would've seen it before you bought it been able to confirm if this happened before he shipped it

    #20 7 months ago

    I can imagine a seller having the game set up in their home for a few years, cleaning it up, taking photos of it and not remembering there was some non-visible damage. You don't normally put the head down when taking photos or selling the game, the only time I take the head down on my games is if they are being broken down for a show or to sell. But, upon noticing it when packing it up, it would have been cool if they said something and offered to knock $100 off the agreed upon price. Luckily it's inside where you will never see it.

    #21 7 months ago

    Absolutely should’ve been disclosed. It’s a structural issue and would’ve/should’ve been noticed by seller when transporting.

    #22 7 months ago

    It needed to be disclosed, premium price or not. If seller forgot it was there, they HAD to see it when packing it up. Everything should have stopped at that point and buyer should have been contacted if he still wanted it or if agreement can be made as-is.

    #23 7 months ago

    Who was it? Let’s get this shit in the pinside fight club thread

    #24 7 months ago

    A little wood glue, good as new!

    #25 7 months ago

    Meh. If they were aware of it, definitely should have been mentioned, but those hinges tell a tale and it doesn't start with the words "collector quality."

    Head over to the HEP thread for lots of tips on how to fix it right up:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-this-week-9-17-18#index-list-more

    #26 7 months ago
    Quoted from nwpinball:

    I can imagine a seller having the game set up in their home for a few years, cleaning it up, taking photos of it and not remembering there was some non-visible damage. You don't normally put the head down when taking photos or selling the game, the only time I take the head down on my games is if they are being broken down for a show or to sell. But, upon noticing it when packing it up, it would have been cool if they said something and offered to knock $100 off the agreed upon price. Luckily it's inside where you will never see it.

    Yep - gotta call bullshit for not giving the buyer a heads up regarding this damage - if that was truly the case. There's no way the seller shouldn't have noticed this in time before packing and shipping it and to just leave it as a surprise for a buyer, who hasn't seen the game in person, is unacceptable. PERIOD.

    #27 7 months ago

    I asked about the condition of the cabinet and received two exterior photos taken while the backbox was up. I’ve made my disappointment known and received an apology and I am moving on with my life.

    I am so sorry about that I totally forgot about that screw hole inside the head being damaged. I usually only use one screw hole to hold the head down. Glad to hear you got the machines safely. Enjoy your new games!

    This incident won’t be mentioned in the seller’s feedback because the listings are now archived.

    #28 7 months ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    Absolutely should’ve been disclosed. It’s a structural issue and would’ve/should’ve been noticed by seller when transporting.

    The top layer of veneer has delaminated is all. I would not consider this structural.

    #29 7 months ago

    I would have disclosed this . I assume somebody tried to fold it up with the bolts still installed. That would have needed alot of force. Hopefully nothing else is buggered up. Good info tho. I never look in there until after a price is negotiated ,bought and ready to fold up. Now I will be sure to look into that.

    #30 7 months ago

    How was it sold to you.... this surly does not look like a high end piece. If the seller used words like mint, huo, collector quality then absolutely call him out.

    If it was sold as needs work, or unshopped thats a totally different story. If he is a trusted seller give him the benefit of the doubt and talk to him before smearing his name. Maybe he did not even know it was there .

    Not sure what the exact situation is.

    #31 7 months ago

    Also what game is it? Is ot a $500 dollar game or a $7000 dollar game?
    I would have mentioned it as a seller unless it was a cheap as is deal and I didnt notice it till after it was paid for.

    #32 7 months ago

    I am shocked that 45% of the people that took the poll think this is acceptable. I would like to hear more about the situation. Was this shipped?? At some point that head was folded down and there is no excuse for anyone not to be aware of the damage.

    #33 7 months ago

    first of all, tell us what game, how much, and how was the condition described to you. These points will determine how I would go on about this matter.

    #34 7 months ago
    Quoted from spblat:

    I feel like I paid a premium price

    Looks like a really rough players condition game. I am curious what you paid for it and what is considered a premium?

    #35 7 months ago
    Quoted from yellowghost:

    I assume somebody tried to fold it up with the bolts still installed. That would have needed alot of force.

    That’s what it looks like to me as well.
    I was thinking somebody forced the head down with the bolts still in and they ripped right through.

    #36 7 months ago

    On a 30+ year old players condition pin it's not a big deal. The seller probably forgot about it since it's not something you even see when the game is setup. I wouldn't worry about it. Enjoy your new games and don't sweat the small stuff!

    #37 7 months ago
    Quoted from MikeS:

    On a 30+ year old players condition pin it's not a big deal. The seller probably forgot about it since it's not something you even see when the game is setup. I wouldn't worry about it. Enjoy your new games and don't sweat the small stuff!

    Well ...... I would not say that either. A players condition Addams would be 30 years old.

    #38 7 months ago
    Quoted from hoby1:

    Well ...... I would not say that either. A players condition Addams would be 30 years old.

    Well not quite 30 years but even so if I was buying a players quality TAF it wouldn't really bother me as long as the playfield and the parts of the game that you see look good. I've bought a number of WPC era games with cabinet issues such as corners separating, screws in cabinet, etc. These games are old and I don't expect them to be perfect unless they were represented that way.

    I think I'd have to see the description and ad for me to judge on this one but if it was just represented as a players quality game and priced as such I wouldn't get bent out of shape.

    #39 7 months ago
    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    I am shocked that 45% of the people that took the poll think this is acceptable. I would like to hear more about the situation. Was this shipped?? At some point that head was folded down and there is no excuse for anyone not to be aware of the damage.

    I would be really pissed. To not disclose damage like that and show it in a picture when selling a game is deceptive, Even if it was sold as players condition.

    I guess if it was sold as a beat up game for an amazing low price, you expect damage like that.

    #40 7 months ago
    Quoted from MikeS:

    if it was just represented as a players quality game and priced as such I wouldn't get bent out of shape.

    It was represented as a players quality game. I don’t think he even said “shopped.” Probably he said “plays well” and it does. Photos showed a playfield and exterior cabinet in good shape, and they are. It’s a well-liked game that’s older than TAF, and I wanted it, so I accepted his price which I thought was too high. I don’t think we fault a seller for getting the best price he can.

    If he had disclosed the damage I would have asked for a discount. He would have refused. And I would have bought it anyway. I was disappointed that I didn’t have that opportunity and I think he should have noticed and disclosed it while preparing to ship but it wouldn’t have changed the outcome.

    #41 7 months ago

    MEH....

    As many have said, minor invisible issue. You yourself just said you would have bought anyway. If you have more than a few games its honestly possible to forget this in a sale.

    Move on and enjoy!!! It sounds like you got it for a price your ok with and have a game you wanted!! Enjoy and dont let this enter your mind again.

    #42 7 months ago
    Quoted from rufessor:

    Enjoy and dont let this enter your mind again.

    /thread

    #44 7 months ago

    The only way I would not disclose it is if there were multiple areas like this and I took pictures of the entire machine stating it has overall damage. You might miss one specific area of damage, but the buyer would be aware that there are multiple damaged areas.

    #45 7 months ago

    I would say yes, seems like a bit more that surface de-lamination since it looks like the bolt ripped thru that whole structure. They tell you, maybe offer to knock off another $50, you say "nah, forget it - not a big deal" or take the discount and both parties are still making an informed decision.

    #46 7 months ago

    What’s title of pin?

    Did you pick it up or shipped?

    #47 7 months ago
    Quoted from Madmax541:

    What’s title of pin?
    Did you pick it up or shipped?

    Looks like Pinbot.

    #48 7 months ago

    I think a lot of the responses are confusing "should seller have disclosed the damage" with their opinion that "the damage doesn't bother me."

    If seller knew about it, he absolutely should have disclosed it and allow a fully informed buyer to negotiate or walk away.

    He's not asking for opinions on the actual damage.

    #49 7 months ago

    Whether I'm selling a pinball machine or a toaster I'm going to make sure that I have explained to the buyer every single possible issue I may have with it. I bought from two separate pinsiders on here I consider greasy slime balls . But the problem is I feel as though if I dime them out my chances of buying another pinball machine from an honest seller here are going to be slim because I'm going to look like a problem. So I understand how you feel. All I can say is I have learned my lesson and next time I go and purchase a pinball machine I am going to inspect the entire machine from the foot to the Head. It makes no sense to buy a machine that you can't see or feel I'm only taking somebody else's word regardless of their hundred percent feedback. Believe me they're getting 100% feedback because they probably fear the same thing I do and that's repercussions from the other members and looking like a complainer and hurting your chances of getting another machine. I had to drive 300 miles and spend $350 to pick up a machine that I brought home and found out the left flipper didn't work. It worked when I tested it there but then when I brought it home it didn't work. I got the bulshit sometimes when you move a pinball machine wires jiggle around answer. Anyway good luck to you and hopefully you learn a lesson like I did and many others on here that are afraid to speak up

    #50 7 months ago

    Seller should reveal 100% of the issues with anything they sell.

    Full. Stop.

    Anything less is dishonesty.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 90.00
    Lighting - Under Cabinet
    Rock Custom Pinball
    $ 60.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Mods for your pinballs
    $ 20.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    UpKick Pinball
    $ 149.00
    $ 69.99
    Lighting - Led
    PinballBulbs
    From: $ 220.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    CzTV Mods
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 35.99
    $ 4.95
    Apparel - Unisex
    ULEKstore
    $ 60.00
    $ 65.00
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    Texas Pinball
    $ 79.99
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    PinGraffix Pinside Shop
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 150.00
    Various Other Swag
    Test item Pre-order!
    Pinside Shop
    $ 7.50
    $ 7,599.00
    Pinball Machine
    Little Shop Of Games
    $ 16.95
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 44.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lermods
    $ 50.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Just 3D Mods
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 18.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 48.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    PinWorlds
    There are 64 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside