Dude seriously... Stop posting this.

Spam!

It's happened to me. You think the first one didn't go through so you try again, and again...then they ALL show up!

I voted on all of your posts differently because I have a multiple-personality disorder...

Hah!...How to pick which one to keep...

If they stopped sending out comic book character pins and other over the hill themes, I would buy more

More Tron's and ACDC's

Down with future released games Metallica and WoZ

KEEP THIS ONE

Neo - you may want to put "KEEP" in the title of this one. (or something to that effect)

Would someone please do a poll to see if we need MORE POLLS???

Here's my response from one of the others....looks like this one will win out:

I have never considered NIB just because of price and not knowing exactly if I would like the pin or not, but in the $4300-4500 range for full version of the game, I would at least consider it for the right title, theme or design. Where it's at now, I just can't justify it. My 7 game varied collection of titles cost me way less than a WOZLE and NIB Stern combined.

Yes!...

If the NIB prices were lower, that would probably reflect lower prices for used machines. I would buy more used machines at the lower prices instead of NIB.

It didn't SEEM to be a slow rise in prices. They were NIB $3,500 and now $6,500.

You can thank JJP for that.
Once WOZ was announced Stern figured, what the hell... if Jack can ask those prices, so can I. Here's an LE for ya!

On the bright side, it has also opened up the market for smaller boutique producers like JPOP and SKITB. I don't think that, without this new benchmark pricing, smaller companies could make mini runs and still be viable.

This is THE thread to be!

The answer probably would be yes because at that price they would seem like a bargain...

If the themes and designs were right for me, I'd buy NIB almost regardless of the price.
I think it is more the recent let-downs from Stern and even JJP that sour me... more than price.

I am choosing to support lower cost projects like SkitB's predator based on their business model and end user focus, as well as higher-end games like Zombie Adventureland due to their willingness to develop an unlicensed theme.

I can see where price would play into the decision to buy, but for me there are a lot more variables at play these days. Will Stern let this game wither on the vine with bad code? Will it have proper QC before leaving the plant? etc. etc...

Yeah, but weren't the JJP prices higher because he was starting a new company. Stern didn't HAVE to raise prices as their company is in place and running.

but the question is what does everyone expect in a $4300. game? What is the minimum? Jpop

What are the main components in a machine that made the price rise? Materials? Labor?

What's normal? The same price as 10 years ago?
The world has changed since then.
Weird question.

I would definitely drop that kind of money on a new machine if it was a theme I enjoy. However there are a few things that bother me with 'modern' pins being released lately. 1) The art work looks phoned in most of the time. I cant stand new art work that looks like a photoshop students project. I prefer the old look of screen printed art on the playfields. 2) the playfield parts look cheap compared to older machines. One that sticks out in my mind is The Avengers.

Regardless of his reasons, he has set the market price. Stern would be stupid not to capitalize... and they do still make a sub $5K game... just not the LE.

If JJP's cost increases were purely related to being a startup, I would have to ask "why am I as a buyer floating the bill for your startup costs?" Where will all this extra cost be evidient in the game itself? In reality JJP is attempting to make a "better" product and that is a huge reason for the price increase. Stern is also offering more for the extra cost. The real question is, is it enough? Are you getting enough value from the additional features?

I see quality and innovation in the JJP machine. The Stern machines seem to be the same. (to me)

Profit is the key unknown here. For argument's sake, let's say at a $4300 price point, Stern would make $1000.00 pure profit on a machine. If they sold two to someone, they make $2000.00. If they sell that same machine for $6000.00, they make $2700.00. Selling one machine makes them more profit than selling two.

If they only make $500.00 pure proft at the 4300 price point, then it is $1000.00 profit from selling two machines vs $2200.00 from selling one.

Moving more volume at a reduced price does not necessarily mean making more profit. Depending on profit per machine, they might need to sell triple the volume just to break even.

SkitB and the boutique manufacturers are a whole different ballgame. Their overhead is *way* less than Sterns. They don't have big factories to pay for along with all the utilities, don't have the same staffing costs (in some cases probably no staffing costs), don't have third party investors clamoring for profit, etc.

As much as I don't like the new pricing, I do agree with the methodology. People were complaining that Stern games were being stripped down, such as IM and Avatar, and Stern was still charging their $4000 price tag. People wanted more toys in the game, but Stern had to cut something out due to rising costs of material and I assume labor too. Sorry, but you can't have all the toys and the cheap price too. If you think that's possible, then start making pinball machines and let us know how it goes. So, now you can still get Stern's standard pinball machine (stripped) in their Pro models, which is what the game would have been anyways before all these price increases, or you can spend the extra cash to get the game that everybody really wanted Stern to make, which is loaded up Premium or LE. The extra bells and whistles that go in these games cost Stern money, so that means higher prices. If you don't like it, don't buy them, or just buy the Pro, and everything will seem like it's "back to normal."

I thought there were plenty of toys on the Stern machines at $4,500.

Prices on the LE/Premium will NEVER go down. Sorry to break the news to you, but unless their inventory doesn't sell, you won't see a price break EVER.

Fortunately or Unfortunately this will attract a certain buyer, but not the populous. For the rest of us there is still the PRO, though not sure for how much longer this will even be "affordable".

It is what it is. I'm glad I was able to get the games when I did and I enjoy them immensely.

If we are comparing apples to apples, you will have to compare Stern's LE models to JJP's... since Jack is really only creating LEs.

I would have to say that Stern has certainly stepped up their game on the LE models in terms of rich features. However, execution, code and QC have really let them down.

Well, here I will say that good design and code trumps all.
Tron has 1 toy and, in my opinion, it is the best all around game Stern has released in a very, very long time.
Everything in that game just comes together and that is a result of great design from Borg, Lyman and the entire team... plus a great license/theme.

True!

Nib prices are going sky high never bought a nib but will eventually but might be Star Trek le (still saving up)
I only wish but will never happen if stern goes back to its normal ways going with one model as if a game which there's no premium everyone goes le if there is a game with a premium model everyone will most probably buy it as there is not much difference between prem and le but that means the pro will drop in price

You keep talking about multiple Sterns....maybe if they consolidate into just one singular Stern, prices would come down a bit.

Unfortunately it doesn't appear this is ever going to happen again.
They need a model around 4K to sell to OPS and they make a large profit from the LE/Premium sales. If they made just one model again, they'd have to increase it to over 5K to make up the difference and would lose the OPS.

You are ignoring quantity buying. Parts would drastically reduce in price for stern thus having a positive affect on profitability. Not to mention they would have more games out there and a better hold on the market than they do now. They are slipping.......

They were in a great position with market share, you would think that rather than linning thier pockets with fast cash they would have shut the door to any competition

It will be cheaper for stern since they are making multiple models it will cost more to produce but with one model it will be quicker to design as the designer will be designing the game faster as he won't be designing 3-4 games think back with bally Williams they had no le or premium and they produced in 1992 6 games a year but now with stern 3 a year that would mean more games to the public

boom, right there!

opportunity.

My suggestion:
Cut all the versions down to one, around the premium level, get the price as low as you can reasonably get it and still make a nice profit without overly compromising quality. Also, lose the license themes and that will save a few bucks per unit. Stop trying to wring every last red cent out of the hobby in a short of time possible.

If they keep this pricing model up, eventually most folks will be tapped out and burnt out and this whole things falls like a house of cards.

i was gonna say that.

now we have blue, red, le, premium, pro, home version.
just one game like they used too, thats it.

Its very hard to move completely away from the liscensed themes. There is a reason that B/W and other manufacturers didn't. It provides immediate recognition for the public who would normally care less about pinball machines. Liscenses are attractive to everyone and not just pin heads, however I do feel a 50/50 mix would be much more appropriate. Or here is a crazy idea, Stern approach B/W and consider keeping their LE line and redo some of the huge titles, MM, TZ, MB etc. to keep the high end collectors happy and their profit margins huge.

^ This! +1 (I'll even let you keep your licensed themes at ~$200 per unit)

Curious where everyone stands on this?

Pretty simple: everyone wishes that they were cheaper.

Thread can now be closed.