(Topic ID: 248450)

Would you buy Back to the Future or Jaws IF...


By pin2d

8 months ago



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  • 57 posts
  • 36 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by o-din
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    Topic poll

    “would you consider buying a pinball machine themed on BACK TO THE FUTURE or JAWS if it followed the story of the movie, there were no movie scenes included, the movie scenes were recreated with animations, and original voice work was included?”

    • Yes 60 votes
      47%
    • No 42 votes
      33%
    • Maybe 25 votes
      20%

    (127 votes)

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    There are 57 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 8 months ago

    Coffee and Contemplation:

    Now that we have seen Stern's Jurassic Park, would you consider buying a pinball machine themed on BACK TO THE FUTURE or JAWS or [insert title], if it didn't have full assets, but had the following:

    - it followed the story of the movie
    - there were no movie scenes included
    - the movie scenes were recreated with animations
    - original voice work was included

    Yes, no, maybe?

    #2 8 months ago

    I voted maybe, mainly because yes on Jaws and No on Back to the future. My thinking is that it would be easy to create another world around Jaws with animation like they have done with Jurassic Park. But with Back to the Future, you would need some of the assets. Even if it was just Doc Brown and some movie clips.

    #3 8 months ago

    For Back to the Future I think movie assets are a must with actor audio, and from all 3 films. The game needs to cover the entire trilogy from start to finish with a deep objective based ruleset in my opinion. If for some reason movie assets are not possible then Stern or whoever makes it needs to still cover all 3 films. Covering only the first film would be a major mistake. A combination of custom animations and movie assets with actor would be ideal.

    Jurassic Park Pinball by Stern can pull off no movie assets as Jurassic Park can come across as a generic theme about dinosaurs. The same cannot be said for Back to the Future in my opinion, there's isn't anything generic about it. The story of Back to the Future is what makes the films great and that story needs to be told in a pinball machine using licensed assets including movie clips, soundtrack, Power of Love by Huey Lewis, etc.

    #4 8 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    For Back to the Future I think movie assets are a must with actor audio, and from all 3 films. The game needs to cover the entire trilogy from start to finish. If for some reason movie assets are not possible then Stern or whoever makes it needs to still cover all 3 films. Covering only the first film would be a major mistake. A combination of custom animations and movie assets with actor would be ideal.

    I have to disagree first movie only would be the best way to go as for Jaws

    #5 8 months ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    I have to disagree first movie only would be the best way to go as for Jaws

    Would be a major mistake for a BTTF pin to only cover the first film, it's a trilogy. Imagine Star Wars pinball only being about A New Hope? That would be boring and the game wouldn't feel like a journey. There's a Jurassic Park trilogy but the second and third films are not widely praised and do not keep the main cast unlike all 3 Back to the Future films.

    Stern could go ahead and create a BTTF pin that covers just the first film with 6 modes and a couple wizard modes. I personally don't want and I don't believe fans of the movies would want that either out of a pin. That would be dull. It needs to be like Star Wars with say 4-6 modes for each movie along with a wizard mode per movie plus a super wizard mode. Allow the player to travel forward and back in time to enter 1 of the 3 films and play modes from it.

    #6 8 months ago

    Absolutely! As great as it would be to have official movie clips, voices, and sound, not having all that is fine. With how good animations are getting I would have no problem with animated sequences instead of direct clips. I think it would be smart to make animations that were not recreations of direct scenes from the movies, but ones that would tell the same stories through different actions.

    Getting the Original Soundtrack would be imperative for either title. John Williams and Alal Silvestri are absolute masters of setting the tone and feelings for these stories so not having the soundtrack would be a big loss for the games. Not having original voice lines from the film would definitely take away from the experience but I am never against having other talented voice actors voicing characters.

    I think the themes alone are heavy enough with titles like Jaws and Back to the Future that even without assets like movie clips would have no problem selling units. I for one would have zero hesitations buying a BttF (Assuming I had the money of course!) even if it did not include certain assets.

    #7 8 months ago

    Maybe a poor analogy, but here goes. Baywatch is just a generic shark and lifeguard rescue game to me. But it's great! Jaws can be a generic shark game for all I care, as long as the layout, art & code are all good.

    #8 8 months ago

    Maybe for me, certain themes just need clips. SWs for example. I think Jaws would fine without it but BTTF kinda needs it alhough it would depend on how good the game was and what they do with the animations.

    #9 8 months ago

    Pinball companies need to stop skimping on assets. When we pay $6000 to $12,500 for a game, it's hard for me to believe there isn't room in there for more IP. If they're going to keep declining to get movie clips then they might as well go back to the dmd.

    #10 8 months ago
    Quoted from seenev:

    If they're going to keep declining to get movie clips then they might as well go back to the dmd.

    What? Animations are way better on a LCD compared to DMD.

    #11 8 months ago
    Quoted from seenev:

    Pinball companies need to stop skimping on assets. When we pay $6000 to $12,500 for a game, it's hard for me to believe there isn't room in there for more IP. If they're going to keep declining to get movie clips then they might as well go back to the dmd.

    For this situation, it is not possible to get additional assets no matter how much a manufacturer is willing to pay, additional assets are simply not available.

    So it is more of get the theme with the assets listed above, or not get it at all, is it still worth doing without movie clips?

    #12 8 months ago
    Quoted from Hazoff:

    What? Animations are way better on a LCD compared to DMD.

    On a somewhat related note, the guy on the special when lit podcast this week was saying that jurassic Park was filmed so long ago that the video quality would be too poor for the lcd screen. I couldn't believe he didn't know the difference between film and video...

    #13 8 months ago
    Quoted from pin2d:

    For this situation, it is not possible to get additional assets no matter how much a manufacturer is willing to pay, additional assets are simply not available.
    So it is more of get the theme with the assets listed above, or not get it at all, is it still worth doing without movie clips?

    BTTF and Jaws are licensed all the time for tons of things, especially BTTF, so it's hard to imagine this scenario in reality. You could make a great game with zero IP assets, but I don't think I'd pay current prices for these games if I felt like they cheaped out in certain areas. When you have such a well known IP and there are obvious pieces missing, you can't help but think "what if..." when you look at it. JP2 seems like a mixed bag to me. Lots of cool stuff. Looks fun... But then I see that car with the comically large wheels and I can't help but think it looks out of place and was made to look unreal to avoid copyright infringement. I don't ever want to look at something in a game and feel like it exists to avoid copyright issues.

    #14 8 months ago
    Quoted from seenev:

    But then I see that car with the comically large wheels and I can't help but think it looks out of place and was made to look unreal to avoid copyright infringement.

    how are dreamthemers going to react when gomez motorworks redesign of the delorean looks like an AMC pacer?

    bttfdelorean (resized).jpg
    #15 8 months ago

    Jaws yes on BTTF I'm not sure because that movie is driven by Doc and Marty if you get those two characters yes.

    #16 8 months ago

    If it was good enough

    #17 8 months ago
    Quoted from greenhornet:

    how are dreamthemers going to react when gomez motorworks redesign of the delorean looks like an AMC pacer?[quoted image]

    Make the wheels 3x bigger and put it in the game. Just say it's an artistic decision.

    #18 8 months ago

    after making a money shot on BTTF, this is a must have.

    "where'd you learn to shoot like that?"

    some of us lived the answer... "7-eleven".

    #19 8 months ago

    I imagine "Comic" style adaptations of both movies could be fun.

    For some reason, I struggle with games like GOTG and TWD having bad voice actors doing the call outs when there are visual references to the movie/tv-show. Kind of like going to a concert only to find out it's a cover band instead of the real thing. And with GOTG, the cover band is really awful

    A comic adaptation allows some artistic freedom and lessens the expectation that voices and call-outs will be the same from the movie. Deadpool was a great example of that. Great game and the call outs are fantastic.

    #20 8 months ago
    Quoted from greenhornet:

    after making a money shot on BTTF, this is a must have.
    "where'd you learn to shoot like that?"
    some of us lived the answer... "7-eleven".

    I mastered Fish Tales at my local 7-11!
    BTTF has to have assets! Jaws has to have assets and all 3 major characters.
    So pony up on asset license, or dont bother.

    #21 8 months ago

    You decide to make BTTF pinball? You design BTTF pinball? You don't make BTTF with licensed assets? Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies.

    #22 8 months ago

    A modern BTTF would be my first NIB, period

    #23 8 months ago

    I didn't vote, but I think my opinion seems to mirror the rest. Jaws yes, BTTF no.

    I think you just need to look at where the meat is. On Jurassic Park the meat is literally in the dinosaurs. The characters, the humans, are fine, but they're just not essential. We're here for the dinosaur movie.

    Jaws, same thing. The humans matter, but when people want the game they're asking for a big ass shark toy, they want the music, they want the shark eating motherfuckers. If anything a Jaws game that didn't use the movie at all would probably be better. It's honestly a slow film really, very few genuine action scenes. Skip all that and make a cool shark game with the Jaws name to sell it and you're gold. The Jurassic Park animation team (I think Keith shouted out like 6 people) has clearly demonstrated they could animate a shark.

    BTTF has the car, and that's cool, but the story is really about people. No people, nothing compelling. I don't know that it's a great pin license, probably, but only if you really had all that access. All the scenes, all the lines, all the faces, nothing held back. We got away on Alien without Ripley, I think we totally pulled it off. But BTTF without Doc? Please.

    My feeling is there a million license ideas out there. Or thousands at the very least. Pick one that either gives you a great hook for an original thought (Jurassic Park, Jaws) or only pick one like BTTF if they're giving you the whole cake, and letting you bring your own ice cream. If you're limited? Pass. Like, Wonka, if you're stuck with the slot machine art package and a family that won't let you use the word brats? Just walk, make something else. Why compromise?

    #24 8 months ago

    As I've said elsewhere, I think Jaws lends itself very well for a new original story told in that universe. It's a shark attacking a beach. It's simple. But maybe too simple?

    Back to the Future might actually benefit more from an original story. The idea of traveling around time, recharging the car to go somewhere else has limitless potential. Plus I think a lot of creative ideas could be included, like if you go back in time for one mode it could make a later mode different because of what you previously did. As far as characters, I think Doc is way more necessary than Marty. The ball can be "Marty". Have a multiball with multiple Marties running around at the same time.

    #25 8 months ago

    Every movie that has tried to tell a shark attack story has failed miserably when compared to the original Jaws. Why would anyone want an animated shark adventure game titled Jaws...they have all sucked and failed. I can't stand the Zen virtual tables and if Stern is moving towards that direction, then it doesn't matter what property they do, I'm out. I'd rather just have an original theme. Watching the Stern JP stream, I cringed every time the Mr. Hammond voice spoke. Either go completely original or do the property assets, but halfway just feels...off.

    #26 8 months ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Jaws, same thing. The humans matter, but when people want the game they're asking for a big ass shark toy, they want the music, they want the shark eating motherfuckers. If anything a Jaws game that didn't use the movie at all would probably be better. It's honestly a slow film really, very few genuine action scenes. Skip all that and make a cool shark game with the Jaws name to sell it and you're gold.

    I honeslty couldn’t disagree more.
    Jaws is an iconic movie and forever will be. A generic shark game will most certainly do very poorly for stern and that’s just my opinion.

    Jaws will be special if they use the voice actors from the original movie. A unique layout and interactive toys/mechs would only be icing on the cake. They’d sell a boat load!

    #27 8 months ago

    I hope for Jaws. I hope Bruce is in it. And I hope Bruce is tastefully done/used.

    LTG : )

    #28 8 months ago

    Wouldn’t buy either one.

    Best part of jaws movie is about 15 minutes of material. Have at it, would be a flop. It’s more of a boutique license.

    BTTF, yeah but would need complete assets. Doc and Marty are the license.

    #29 8 months ago

    Current voting says BTTF is the preferred choice of these two

    But who is to say either gets made?

    Stranger Things I would think would be the current ideal theme, it's checks alot of boxes

    Very successful, popular, plenty to work with, retro back to the 80's sci fi...

    #30 8 months ago

    Hell yes, IF the game is good. POTC uses almost nothing recognizable of the films, other than the actors’ faces, and it is OUTSTANDING.

    #31 8 months ago

    I think all 3 mentioned are incredible themes. I am just curious as to what the different licenses cost. I mean...why not get the "whole" license? Why would they break up several types of licenses? Money grab?

    Couldnt they just pay for rights to the movie(s) and use any voice clips/sounds from there?

    #32 8 months ago
    Quoted from Bowlingpin:

    Jaws is an iconic movie and forever will be.

    That's fine, but "iconic movie" doesn't mean "great pinball". Just because you have an LCD screen, and can play a scene from a movie on it, doesn't mean it's a good fit.

    When we did all the work on Alien's LCD we were combing through two movies to find enough material. And if you watch the screen (I realize a lot of people will not get the chance to play this game) one thing you'll notice is how everything on the screen is heavily edited. Chop chop chop, a lot of fast cuts, keeping the pace up. There are no talking head scenes. No actors standing around, chit chatting. We kept everything snappy and moving. Acid dripping through a deck, done. Shotgun to the face of a xeno, done. Vehicle crashing through an area, ship crashing, all high paced stuff.

    Jaws is mostly just those talking heads. One film, not multiple, and mostly people hanging around. The actual action scenes are very sparse. Everyone thinks about the couple obvious ones with the shark, and forgets how much of the film is the town people arguing and talking and looking at chalkboards etc. Terrible pinball material really.

    What makes for a good, emotional, and satisfying movie is not the same thing as what makes for a good pinball display.

    #33 8 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Imagine Star Wars pinball only being about A New Hope? That would be boring and the game wouldn't feel like a journey.

    I would be perfectly fine with that, the first movie is a well contained story start to finish.

    #34 8 months ago

    I only clicked on this thread to read Levi's smart-ass comment.

    #35 8 months ago
    Quoted from Daditude:

    I mean...why not get the "whole" license? Why would they break up several types of licenses? Money grab?

    Couldnt they just pay for rights to the movie(s) and use any voice clips/sounds from there?

    You may be surprised how expensive, difficult, or downright impossible it can be to obtain certain assets. Ever noticed there's a faceless helmet in the middle of the Apollo 13 translite? Tom Hanks said no. Try changing his mind with pinball money.

    #36 8 months ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    That's fine, but "iconic movie" doesn't mean "great pinball". Just because you have an LCD screen, and can play a scene from a movie on it, doesn't mean it's a good fit. The actual action scenes are very sparse.
    What makes for a good, emotional, and satisfying movie is not the same thing as what makes for a good pinball display.

    An iconic movie is your foot in the door, the rest is up to the company building it.

    Most movies aren’t just action, action, action- you need a build up... And neither is Pinball action, action, action, in the sense of certain things/shots need to come together to get you somewhere in the story/moment-multiball, etc.

    Thinking out loud... Quint saying “we’ve got a barrel on him”(and a clip from the movie) wouldn’t coincide with a ball lock for Jaws?

    Jaws has plenty of material to make a very memorable and fun pinball machine, I think the proper licensing would only make it better.

    And I was just emphasizing the fact that a “generic Shark game” like you said, simply named “Jaws” would do poorly.

    #37 8 months ago

    I'd be fine with either without movie clips. Well done comic art in the style of Zombie Yeti or Zornow Must Be Destroyed would actually be my preference. I'm not one of those dying for either theme, but of the two, Back to the Future would be my choice. If they could get sound clips from the movies, plus Christopher Lloyd doing some custom callouts that would be pretty amazing. I picture shooting shots to build a counter up to 88 mile per hour in order to start the modes.

    #38 8 months ago

    I voted "yes".

    Theme integration is important of course, but given that everything is designed to a price-point I'd rather them spend more of the pie on cool mechs, shots, and other pinball goodies and less on licensing specific imagery, assets, or individuals. Having the assets is nice but not essential to incorporating the plot/story-line meaningfully into the game, and the creative team at Stern has more than enough talent to pull this off. Besides, as someone who places a high value on the artistic aspects of a game I actually prefer stylized art and animations to photos and film clips. (I mean, does ANYONE prefer the ACDC translite with the photoshopped band members over the Met one which features Donnie's hand-drawn images?)

    The basic question boils down to:

    JP: packed with more mechanisms, shots, and stuff for the ball to do than any Stern game in a long time, but skimps a bit on licensing assets and relies on creativity to do so in a way that is not detrimental to gameplay or the game's identity. This approach is my strong preference, and it appears Stern has possibly achieved a nearly perfect balance with this title.

    versus

    Beatles: save $$$ with a recycled/reworked layout which requires fewer and less complicated electromechanical assemblies and spend big licensing all the right assets (down to the level of Ludwig drums). The resulting product feels more like a playable piece of Beatles memorabilia intended to adorn an upscale "rumpus room" (alongside the $14k Sgt. Pepper's themed jukebox) than a world-class pinball experience. It IS a fun, beautiful game, but the "value" just isn't there for someone with my priorities.

    No "right" or "wrong" answer here, fortunately Stern offers games to satisfy a broad spectrum of preferences.

    #39 8 months ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    I didn't vote, but I think my opinion seems to mirror the rest. Jaws yes, BTTF no.
    I think you just need to look at where the meat is. On Jurassic Park the meat is literally in the dinosaurs. The characters, the humans, are fine, but they're just not essential. We're here for the dinosaur movie.
    Jaws, same thing. The humans matter, but when people want the game they're asking for a big ass shark toy, they want the music, they want the shark eating motherfuckers. If anything a Jaws game that didn't use the movie at all would probably be better. It's honestly a slow film really, very few genuine action scenes. Skip all that and make a cool shark game with the Jaws name to sell it and you're gold. The Jurassic Park animation team (I think Keith shouted out like 6 people) has clearly demonstrated they could animate a shark.
    BTTF has the car, and that's cool, but the story is really about people. No people, nothing compelling. I don't know that it's a great pin license, probably, but only if you really had all that access. All the scenes, all the lines, all the faces, nothing held back. We got away on Alien without Ripley, I think we totally pulled it off. But BTTF without Doc? Please.
    My feeling is there a million license ideas out there. Or thousands at the very least. Pick one that either gives you a great hook for an original thought (Jurassic Park, Jaws) or only pick one like BTTF if they're giving you the whole cake, and letting you bring your own ice cream. If you're limited? Pass. Like, Wonka, if you're stuck with the slot machine art package and a family that won't let you use the word brats? Just walk, make something else. Why compromise?

    JAWS for sure. All you need is the shark, the music and you are golden. Now a few clips along the lines of "I think we're going to need a bigger boat" would help the experience, but as Aurich stated, the movie is based around the shark. This pin could be done without a single voice...just ocean sounds, and screams....maybe an explosion or two. In fact, that might just be the ticket. Done correctly, this would be a HUGE seller.

    #40 8 months ago

    This is the obvious choice

    p9996687_v_v8_af (resized).jpg
    #41 8 months ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    That's fine, but "iconic movie" doesn't mean "great pinball". Just because you have an LCD screen, and can play a scene from a movie on it, doesn't mean it's a good fit.
    When we did all the work on Alien's LCD we were combing through two movies to find enough material. And if you watch the screen (I realize a lot of people will not get the chance to play this game) one thing you'll notice is how everything on the screen is heavily edited. Chop chop chop, a lot of fast cuts, keeping the pace up. There are no talking head scenes. No actors standing around, chit chatting. We kept everything snappy and moving. Acid dripping through a deck, done. Shotgun to the face of a xeno, done. Vehicle crashing through an area, ship crashing, all high paced stuff.
    Jaws is mostly just those talking heads. One film, not multiple, and mostly people hanging around. The actual action scenes are very sparse. Everyone thinks about the couple obvious ones with the shark, and forgets how much of the film is the town people arguing and talking and looking at chalkboards etc. Terrible pinball material really.
    What makes for a good, emotional, and satisfying movie is not the same thing as what makes for a good pinball display.

    I don’t exactly disagree, but After seeing and playing POTC, I guarantee I could cut together enough material from jaws to make it work. The key to making that material work is to imply the shark and not show it until absolutely critical. The opening scene, the chomping of Chrissy and Alex Kintner, the tiger shark all do not require the actual shark. the Ted Grossman scene, yes. Quint? Of course. Hooper in the cage? Duh. Smile-you-son-of-a-bitch absolutely. But there are tons of scenes that require no shark.

    #42 8 months ago

    Does it have an Elwin playfield or a Ritchie playfield?

    #43 8 months ago

    Definitely no. Back to the Future isn’t just a movie about time travel....it’s a movie about THESE characters time traveling. The lauded ride at Universal Studios back in the day got that right and made sure that the actors were involved.

    Jaws is more of a character-driven film than most people realize. The terrible sequels should have made that abundantly clear. You have to have assets from that movie if you’re trying to do anything with that property.

    That said, Jurassic Park can sustain its own world a lot better than those movies because it is a world that a variety of different characters visit over the years.

    Just my take as a filmmaker.

    -1
    #44 8 months ago

    Yes with JAWS as you could make a more exciting pin going the same route as JP2 proving you had the icon theme/music and you could create a lot more action/mode scenes using custom animations with JAWS.

    However with BTTF it’s got to have movie clips or at the very least all the music and the original voice actor whether it be custom callouts or lines ripped from the films, ideally with BTTF full movie and audio assets would make a it must buy for me!

    Oh and if both where Elwin designs sign me up! But if I had to pick one I’d love to see Elwin do BTTF over JAWS.

    #45 8 months ago
    Quoted from life_boy:

    That said, Jurassic Park can sustain its own world a lot better than those movies because it is a world that a variety of different characters visit over the years.

    This.

    And people go crazy over anything with a dinosaur in it, which I don't get.

    The first JP is pretty memorable though.

    #46 8 months ago

    Jaws does nothing for me, but Back The Future would be awesome!

    #47 8 months ago
    Quoted from life_boy:

    Jurassic Park can sustain its own world a lot better than those movies because it is a world that a variety of different characters visit over the years.

    here is another franchise where, over the years, planes delivered a variety of different characters to a tropical paradise and traveled around in jeeps, but it wouldnt be the same without ricardo montalban and herve villechaize.

    #48 8 months ago
    Quoted from mnpinball:

    Doc and Marty are the license.

    Starring Gary Stern and Joe Kaminkow

    13000101 (resized).jpg
    #49 8 months ago
    Quoted from life_boy:

    Definitely no. Back to the Future isn’t just a movie about time travel....it’s a movie about THESE characters time traveling. The lauded ride at Universal Studios back in the day got that right and made sure that the actors were involved.

    While I agree with you that "Back to the Future isn't just about time travel," I feel as if that is the part that translates the best to pinball. A lot of the rest of the plot is, well...weird. The most important things for me would be things like the DeLorean, flux capacitor, OUTATIME, 88 mph, 1.21 gigawats, and the clock tower. I could see having some modes with skateboard / hoverboard, guitar, and the sports almanac. Give me that plus Christopher Lloyd narrating and I feel like it would work pretty well.

    Capture (resized).PNG

    #50 8 months ago

    Some movies just don't need to be pinball machines.

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