(Topic ID: 120239)

Would you allow Hercules in an IFPA-sanctioned league?


By Law

4 years ago



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  • 47 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by LesManley
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#1 4 years ago

So, this season of the Pinballz Arcade league is about to wrap up, and the players that have qualified for finals get to select machines from a "bank" consisting of anything available at Pinballz that's in good working order.

A couple people joked tonight how they'd pick Hercules since no one ever practices on it so they could sneak in a couple late-night sessions and rock it during finals. I don't think anyone's serious about picking it, but should it be allowed if someone did?

The one at Pinballz is in fine shape and technically pinball... anyways, thoughts? Has anyone seen a Hercules used in a tournament or league before?

#2 4 years ago

Does it have tournament friendly rules? Because I honestly have no idea. I would allow it as long as it's a fair game, meaning it doesn't have like weird random jackpots or things that just unbalance it from game to game. Why not? A little variety is good for players.

#3 4 years ago

Not me, no.

#4 4 years ago

As long as the rules for the league were clear and Hercules is one of the eligible games, then choosing Hercules is perfectly fine in my book.

Marcus

#5 4 years ago

you absolutely have to be joking.

#6 4 years ago

Cincy and Ohio league rules on 'odd' games - they can be used, but only if all people in the group agree. Generally the oddballs don't get used, but I think there's at least one big ball bowler match on record somewhere..

Oddball games include:

Safecracker (time based, not number of balls)
Hyperball (gun game)
2 or 1 player EMs (must be played in stages)
Joust/AG Football (if you really want to rank two 2-player vs games)
Bowlers / Gott. SnS
Spinball Jolly Park (software has issues)

I'd put Hercules on the list as well, it's pretty odd.

#7 4 years ago

I would allow it yes . But if you don't want to hear people bitching about it being in (and they will ) don't allow it and then a different set of people will be bitching that it's not allowed .

#8 4 years ago

come on thomas, those guys have been playing ball for two and a half months, working hard and focusing all their efforts on serious ball. after all that time and energy, dont force them to settle it on a machine that is a novelty. this league had to rise from the ashes to even get started, it almost failed to even start, more than half of the people have dropped out. after all this league has been through, dont end it on a game you already know no one wants to play and costs a whole dollar fifty per game. whats your next choice... pac-man?

the dudes joke about it because its just that, a joke. in the name of all that is holy, dont let anyone pick hercules.

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from trilogybeer:

I would allow it yes . But if you don't want to hear people bitching about it being in (and they will ) don't allow it and then a different set of people will be bitching that it's not allowed .

correct-answer-hi.png

#10 4 years ago

Tom,
Hercules actually was used in a finals match in a tournament in Hockley at Dan's pinball museum. Brian D and Sven battled it out. They actually both killed it and it was a highly competitive and fun match. However, I think that Hercules was a bit faster and more "pinbally" than the one at Pinballz. Brian might chime in.

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Cincy and Ohio league rules on 'odd' games - they can be used, but only if all people in the group agree. Generally the oddballs don't get used, but I think there's at least one big ball bowler match on record somewhere..
Oddball games include:
Safecracker (time based, not number of balls)
Hyperball (gun game)
2 or 1 player EMs (must be played in stages)
Joust/AG Football (if you really want to rank two 2-player vs games)
Bowlers / Gott. SnS
Spinball Jolly Park (software has issues)
I'd put Hercules on the list as well, it's pretty odd.

We don't consider wedgeheads or 2-player EMs 'odd' games anymore, but the rest would fall on the odd list for OPL.

Was the bowler match at Kyle's?

#12 4 years ago

I mean, I picked Varkon a few times in my local league's finals and had fun with it, so yeah, I'd give Hercules a shot in a league final as well.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from stainedundies:

the dudes joke about it because its just that, a joke. in the name of all that is holy, dont let anyone pick hercules.

Joke or not, if the rules of the league allow for Hercules to be chosen, then as a player of the league, you cannot complain if someone chooses the game.

It's a known option. So the best approach is to learn a little about the game just in case someone else decides to select it.

A player does not have to choose Hercules. But if it is a legal selection, the smart player will do enough research to be ready in case someone else chooses it.

Winning is the ultimate goal, so a player may use Hercules as a curve ball for an opponent to throw him off his game.

If you don't want to select it, then don't. But be prepared in case someone else does.

Marcus

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

We don't consider wedgeheads or 2-player EMs 'odd' games anymore, but the rest would fall on the odd list for OPL.
Was the bowler match at Kyle's?

I think so (Kyle)

Do you just play 1-2 then 3-4 on the EMs? Guess that's reasonable enough. P1 picks and is the most disadvantaged.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from Xerico:

Joke or not, if the rules of the league allow for Hercules to be chosen, then as a player of the league, you cannot complain if someone chooses the game.
It's a known option. So the best approach is to learn a little about the game just in case someone else decides to select it.
A player does not have to choose Hercules. But if it is a legal selection, the smart player will do enough research to be ready in case someone else chooses it.
Winning is the ultimate goal, so a player may use Hercules as a curve ball for an opponent to throw him off his game.
If you don't want to select it, then don't. But be prepared in case someone else does.
Marcus

i know that if its chosen it has to be played. im just trying to make the point that it should not even be on the list because its a novelty. oh well, if you were familiar with pinballz and the way their leagues are ran, you'd probably agree that it is too far gone to be taken serious anyhow...

#16 4 years ago

It depends on how serious you want the league to be

If the finals were determined on only one game, then I would not allow Hercules to be picked as it could be disputed whether it is "real pinball". but if there were more than one game in the finals, and an odd number of games such that it could one of the tiebreakers, I'd allow it.

Quoted from batcitypinball:

Tom,
Hercules actually was used in a finals match in a tournament in Hockley at Dan's pinball museum. Brian D and Sven battled it out. They actually both killed it and it was a highly competitive and fun match. However, I think that Hercules was a bit faster and more "pinbally" than the one at Pinballz. Brian might chime in.

Hey that's me. It was interesting. One of the players earlier in the tournament couldn't help but show off how you could save the cue ball when it went down the left outlane by repeatedly flipping the left flipper as if you were dribbling a basketball and you could bounce the ball off of the bottom rail onto enough of the right flipper to save the ball.

Did I do that on ball 1 in the finals? Yes, I did. And then I heard people in the background go "was that a death save?" So that was funny. On ball 5, Sven did the same thing and won the match.

If you buy me a few games on Hercules, perhaps I can demonstrate the move for you.

#17 4 years ago

I can't thinking of anything more fun than using Hercules in a finals game... I would be totally for it. It's totally a classic pinball game. If you look at pinball machines over the years, they've varied dramatically in terms of features, size and functionality. That's the nature of pinball. Unless there's a flaw in the game design that makes it tedious or problematic to use in competition, by all means, allow it.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from briandols:

If you buy me a few games on Hercules, perhaps I can demonstrate the move for you.

haha, i was doin this the other day!!! call it the death bounce pass lazarus bang back.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

I think so (Kyle)
Do you just play 1-2 then 3-4 on the EMs? Guess that's reasonable enough. P1 picks and is the most disadvantaged.

Yep! One and two play together, and three plays alone in three player groups.

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from stainedundies:

haha, i was doin this the other day!!! call it the death bounce pass lazarus bang back.

Sven tried to get FunWithBonus to call the move the "Magic Johnson", maybe(?), for the new pinball dictionary. I guess Steve wanted to see video proof, first.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from Law:

So, this season of the Pinballz Arcade league is about to wrap up, and the players that have qualified for finals get to select machines from a "bank" consisting of anything available at Pinballz that's in good working order.
A couple people joked tonight how they'd pick Hercules since no one ever practices on it so they could sneak in a couple late-night sessions and rock it during finals. I don't think anyone's serious about picking it, but should it be allowed if someone did?
The one at Pinballz is in fine shape and technically pinball... anyways, thoughts? Has anyone seen a Hercules used in a tournament or league before?

I'm not a serious tournament player, but am active in a couple leagues. I would say allow it. I would not allow the maneuver described a couple posts back, though, as it sounds like it would constitute a death save for tournament purposes.

#23 4 years ago

Thanks to everyone for the input. At this point, since it's not specifically excluded according to the rules I'd allow it if chosen. I'm mostly curious about what people think.

@batcity -Definitely good to know there's precedent! Thanks!

For reference, Pinballz advanced league finals are four player four-game PAPA-esque. Due to lack of machine access as well as reserving the machines for league, each player selects a machine and a backup ahead of time.

I realize that there are quite a few machines that people don't like playing in league for one reason or another. As far as I'm concerned, as long as the machine is in good working order and the rules are suitable for competition play it's fair game.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

I would not allow the maneuver described a couple posts back, though, as it sounds like it would constitute a death save for tournament purposes.

I disagree as it is purely a flipper move.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from stainedundies:

you absolutely have to be joking.

it's austin

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from briandols:

I disagree as it is purely a flipper move.

But it's recovering a ball that has gone down an outlane, correct? It's a cool party trick, but I can't imagine any reasonable tournament director letting that fly. I believe it would constitute a death save, even though it isn't a "bang back."

#27 4 years ago

Sorry. Herc is nothing more than a newbie quarter magnet. Too damn slow and boring for anything I'd consider league-ish.

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from briandols:

I disagree as it is purely a flipper move.

The problem is where you draw the line. It's likely that there will be very slight movement of the machine while attempting this (even on a Hercules). At what point does the manoeuvre turn into a death save/bangback? I can only see this leading to an argument about whether the machine was nudged or not. Making any save illegal after the ball has gone down the outlane is much more clear-cut.

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Cincy and Ohio league rules on 'odd' games - they can be used, but only if all people in the group agree. Generally the oddballs don't get used, but I think there's at least one big ball bowler match on record somewhere..

Oddball games include:

Safecracker (time based, not number of balls)
Hyperball (gun game)
2 or 1 player EMs (must be played in stages)
Joust/AG Football (if you really want to rank two 2-player vs games)
Bowlers / Gott. SnS
Spinball Jolly Park (software has issues)

I'd put Hercules on the list as well, it's pretty odd.

I would Orbitor 1 to this list !

#30 4 years ago

Heh, we had a tournament use O1 in a side tournament. Was a LOT of fun, and it was a good pick too, because the main tournament was on Space Shuttle.

Newer tourney player won on O1, but had nothing to do with luck at all, he was playing that thing like he owned it.

#31 4 years ago

100% YES

Herc IS pinball and it also takes a unique skillset to play it well. Herc has no scoring issues and even then I honestly am fine with things like the ability to steal locked balls. That is pinball. For example, if a game allows locked balls to be stolen then play a smarter game and find your points in other ways or play better and make sure you collect multi after you lock and leave the locks empty for the nect person.

I honestly can't think of a single game I would outright exclude unless it has unbalance random awards that are 100% luck or based on player position only. If there is greater than 50% skill for any reward then it counts in my book.

Herc similar to O1 takes skill.

#32 4 years ago

Here in Colorado at Lyons Classic Pinball we do not use Herc in league or tourn. It can be a fun side or after tournament but we stick to real pinballs that use a real steel pinball(most of the time,power ball is exception). We also dont use Joust or Baby pacman for real tournament but we include them in the consolation tourn that we dont take to seriously .

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

I would Orbitor 1 to this list !

It's good enough for PAPA A Division!

#34 4 years ago

Keepin' it weird.

Quoted from Zitt:

Sorry. Herc is nothing more than a newbie quarter magnet. Too damn slow and boring for anything I'd consider league-ish.

That's the thing- it's player's choice in finals. They can pick whatever they feel gives them an advantage. You should come out to one of the leagues sometime!

#35 4 years ago

I'd have less of an issue with Hercules than with some of the games with no tilt or to a lesser extent, games with progressive jackpots and steal-able locks.

#36 4 years ago

Pinball is pinball, take the good with the bad. These odd game can be great equalizers.

I would not care but there are a lot of others that will complain, but if you leave it out they find something else.

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from batcitypinball:

I'd have less of an issue with Hercules than with some of the games with no tilt or to a lesser extent, games with progressive jackpots and steal-able locks.

Stop leaving your balls behind Pinbot on Taxi, and I will quit stealing them.

(Not that I even know who is in control of this account...)

#38 4 years ago

why wouldn't it be considered? it's a pinball machine... it has flippers and a ball, and various "pinbally-things" on the pf...

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from DarthXaos:

SUPERBEE said:

I would Orbitor 1 to this list !

It's good enough for PAPA A Division!

Ok, for what its worth if PAPA is good with Orbitor 1 then all bets are off because while fun, that machine has to be the most random machine i have ever played!

#40 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Ok, for what its worth if PAPA is good with Orbitor 1 then all bets are off because while fun, that machine has to be the most random machine i have ever played!

Lern 2 bezier curve calculate.

#41 4 years ago

My kid and I played it (neither of us tournament caliber players), and my concern would be that its too easy. I think the two of us had it going for half an hour. Its so slow and predictable.

#42 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Ok, for what its worth if PAPA is good with Orbitor 1 then all bets are off because while fun, that machine has to be the most random machine i have ever played!

Orbitor 1 was a placeholder joke on the A Div list. It has -- as communicated -- been replaced.

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

Orbitor 1 was a placeholder joke on the A Div list. It has -- as communicated -- been replaced.

Sadly.

#44 4 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

Orbitor 1 was a placeholder joke on the A Div list. It has -- as communicated -- been replaced.

Really a shame that it was a joke. Orbitor1 takes some serious skill to master and would have been great fun to see in A division.

3 months later
#46 3 years ago

The Pinball is a CUE BALL!!!

#47 3 years ago
Quoted from policano:

its a pinball.

We had to play it for qualifying in monthly tournaments at Blainbrook. It's not a popular choice. Coincidently enough, they also used to have an Orbitor 1.

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