Charlottetown, PE
Would either of these be suitable for rivetting ramp flaps into place?
(Topic ID: 304953)
Toms River, NJ
Quoted from EvanDickson:Would either of these be suitable for rivetting ramp flaps into place?
amazon.com link »
amazon.com link »
those aren't the correct dies for tubular rivets...like the ones used in pinball machines...but if you can find the correct dies, no reason its should not work...
You can also consider a hand squeezer like https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/topages/handrivetsqueezer.php
I got my dies from https://vintagetrailersupply.com/squeezer-tool-dies-vts-689/
Quoted from dr_nybble:You can also consider a hand squeezer like https://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/topages/handrivetsqueezer.php
I got my dies from https://vintagetrailersupply.com/squeezer-tool-dies-vts-689/
That might be what the doctor ordered. 3" is probably best eh?
The tool you listed isn't going to work unless you can find squeezer inserts to fit it....which I doubt exist. I've put many flaps on with one of these: HT-174 Hand Rivet Clincher for 1/8" Diameter Tubular Rivets. Designed to BE Used in Conjunction with A Hammer to Clinch/ROLL Tubular Rivets. (Pack of 1) amazon.com link »
Just make sure you support the rivet head with a block of metal or a piece of hardwood, and use a backup washer behind it.
https://www.mcmaster.com/6667A4/
A press is way overkill unless you are doing high volume. Hammer and set tool work great.
Made my own following this:
https://www.instructables.com/Cheap-Tubular-Rivet-Press-From-an-Arbor-Press/
Quoted from JodyG:The tool you listed isn't going to work unless you can find squeezer inserts to fit it....which I doubt exist. I've put many flaps on with one of these: HT-174 Hand Rivet Clincher for 1/8" Diameter Tubular Rivets. Designed to BE Used in Conjunction with A Hammer to Clinch/ROLL Tubular Rivets. (Pack of 1) amazon.com link »
Just make sure you support the rivet head with a block of metal or a piece of hardwood, and use a backup washer behind it.
Perfect, I ordered one of these. The squeeze tools seem slicker, but I'm not high volume and this one won't take as much space on the shelf, so definitely willing to give it a try. Thanks! (and thanks to all who replied!)
1 month later
Quoted from EvanDickson:Perfect, I ordered one of these. The squeeze tools seem slicker, but I'm not high volume and this one won't take as much space on the shelf, so definitely willing to give it a try. Thanks! (and thanks to all who replied!)
How did that tool work out for you? I'm in the same boat you were in and just want to make sure the tool made for an easy install.
Quoted from explosiveegg:How did that tool work out for you? I'm in the same boat you were in and just want to make sure the tool made for an easy install.
The Hanson tool is the definitive solution for casual riveting.
Perfect results.
Quoted from zerbam:i have the older version of this..........works great
http://www.arbortime.com/
Thanks for the suggestion, I'm a little scared bringing a hammer near the new ramps, so this solution looks promising. I'll definitely reach out to them and try this product first.
Quoted from explosiveegg:How did that tool work out for you? I'm in the same boat you were in and just want to make sure the tool made for an easy install.
It worked ok on the first ramp. Someone mentioned that you could use a wood block to back the rivet, but that is not my experience. I found the rivet hammered into my wooden desk before expanding even a little. I then put a thin steel plate (actually a drill hole size gauge) on the desk and found I really messed it up before getting the rivet installed.
That was for the easy ramp that went on to a flat section. The other three will be trickier. I've bought and cut some angle iron that I will put over wood as a backer. I'll wrap that in an old t-shirt or something so I don't scratch up the rivet or ramp.
I also think it would help to have a very heavy work bench over a concrete floor rather than a desk over a wood floor, the latter (which is my setup) probably allows more of the hammer energy to go into bouncing the floor, which means less energy going into deforming the rivet
IMG_20220121_110834198~2 (resized).jpgQuoted from zerbam:i have the older version of this..........works great
http://www.arbortime.com/
I have something like this, but mine really sucks. Everything slips sideways long before the rivet deforms.
16427776419057369175767589147113 (resized).jpgQuoted from EvanDickson:It worked ok on the first ramp. Someone mentioned that you could use a wood block to back the rivet, but that is not my experience. I found the rivet hammered into my wooden desk before expanding even a little. I then put a thin steel plate (actually a drill hole size gauge) on the desk and found I really messed it up before getting the rivet installed.
That was for the easy ramp that went on to a flat section. The other three will be trickier. I've bought and cut some angle iron that I will put over wood as a backer. I'll wrap that in an old t-shirt or something so I don't scratch up the rivet or ramp.
I also think it would help to have a very heavy work bench over a concrete floor rather than a desk over a wood floor, the latter (which is my setup) probably allows more of the hammer energy to go into bouncing the floor, which means less energy going into deforming the rivet[quoted image]
Thanks for your response. I ordered the amazon one you picked up before someone mentioned the arbortime/pintonka tool. I did end up buying both the amazon riveter and the arbortime rivet press. I figured if the arbortime press doesn't work well, I'll have the amazon as a backup, and will just return it if the arbortime press works fine. If the arbortime tool fails me, I'll be sure to use the hammer tool on a concrete floor to prevent what you were experiencing.
The twisty rivet presses are meant for softer metals. Which might be why your seeing it deform, if you're using hard steel rivets. I know the Pintonka one comes with mild steel rivets.
Avoid steel rivets if you can. Nickel plated brass is the way to go, and far easier to clinch. As for the block of wood...it needs to be a very hard wood. I have a block of steel with adhesive felt on it, and they works well. You need a solid surface to work from as well. I usually just do it in my concrete garage floor.
Quoted from EvanDickson:It worked ok on the first ramp. Someone mentioned that you could use a wood block to back the rivet, but that is not my experience. I found the rivet hammered into my wooden desk before expanding even a little. I then put a thin steel plate (actually a drill hole size gauge) on the desk and found I really messed it up before getting the rivet installed.
That was for the easy ramp that went on to a flat section. The other three will be trickier. I've bought and cut some angle iron that I will put over wood as a backer. I'll wrap that in an old t-shirt or something so I don't scratch up the rivet or ramp.
I also think it would help to have a very heavy work bench over a concrete floor rather than a desk over a wood floor, the latter (which is my setup) probably allows more of the hammer energy to go into bouncing the floor, which means less energy going into deforming the rivet[quoted image]
Riveting is not too difficult but you do need a firm smooth surface to get a clean result:
Use only nickel plated brass rivets.
They dont need much pressure to clinch them.
They should only protrude 1/16" or less before pressing. Use backup washers to fill in the length or use smaller rivets. The "rule of thumb" is that the protruding part should not exceed 1/2 the diameter of the rivet.
In our case of using 1/8" rivets, 1/16" works well enough. But I find that I get less splitting if the rivet protrudes a bit less, something like just a tiny bit more than the thickness of a backing washer.
I generally set the rivet up and place a washer over the end to see how it looks. I dont measure anything.
If the rivet is slightly higher than the washer, Im good to go.
If the part is plastic and needs a washer, I place 2 washers, see how it looks, then remove the 2nd washer.
Using washers to get the right length works beautifully for me.
Its handy to have a helper hold bulky or wobbly items while you setup and press rivets.
Quoted from JodyG:As for the block of wood..
Maple Hardwood floor samples (without foam cushioning) from Home Depot work wonderfully for riveting or clamping protectors.
They are cut into nice 4" squares and they are free.
Quoted from pinballinreno:Riveting is not too difficult but you do need a firm smooth surface to get a clean result:
Use only nickel plated brass rivets.
They dont need much pressure to clinch them.
They should only protrude 1/16" or less before pressing. Use backup washers to fill in the length or use smaller rivets. The "rule of thumb" is that the protruding part should not exceed 1/2 the diameter of the rivet.
In our case of using 1/8" rivets, 1/16" works well enough. But I find that I get less splitting if the rivet protrudes a bit less, something like just a tiny bit more than the thickness of a backing washer.
I generally set the rivet up and place a washer over the end to see how it looks. I dont measure anything.
If the rivet is slightly higher than the washer, Im good to go.
If the part is plastic and needs a washer, I place 2 washers, see how it looks, then remove the 2nd washer.
Using washers to get the right length works beautifully for me.
Its handy to have a helper hold bulky or wobbly items while you setup and press rivets.
Holy crap. Maybe those are the magic words ("nickel plated brass"). I've been working with the ones I got with the pinbits pressless rivet kit, and the ones I got with the c-clamp pictured above. They're very tough so must be pure steel. I'll have a look for nickel plated brass and try again, thanks for the pro tip!
Quoted from EvanDickson:Holy crap. Maybe those are the magic words ("nickel plated brass"). I've been working with the ones I got with the pinbits pressless rivet kit, and the ones I got with the c-clamp pictured above. They're very tough so must be pure steel. I'll have a look for nickel plated brass and try again, thanks for the pro tip!
Shipping might be costly to Canada but I have them. I am waiting for some sizes which are currently backordered, but the most common sizes I am well stocked in. https://rampomatic.com/collections/hardware
Quoted from zerbam:i have the older version of this..........works great
http://www.arbortime.com/
This product is amazing. Thank you for the suggestion.
This swords of fury ramp has some awkward rivet locations that the traditional hammer approach would've been difficult. It's also is not giving me any problems with the steel rivets I bought on pinball life.
20220124_010430 (resized).jpg20220124_010440 (resized).jpg
Melbourne
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:Is there a typical rivet size used on pinballs? Specifically Sys11's? I'll restore my Whirlwind sometime soon which has a number of rivets needing replacing.
Couldn't find them in Australia when I was looking , but I see some now at PSPA. I went through this in 2015 when I could not find them here. Got them from Hanson Rivet in the US, diameters are 1/8" with various lengths in 1/32" increments. I purchased 6/32,7/32,8/32,11/32 and the squezeer dies to go with them.
Cost me $50 in parts and $55 to ship.
Don't know if you can find squeezer dies in Australia.
https://www.hansonrivet.com/rivets/tubular-rivets/
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:Is there a typical rivet size used on pinballs? Specifically Sys11's? I'll restore my Whirlwind sometime soon which has a number of rivets needing replacing.
On my Swords of Fury ramps and plastics I'm mainly using 3/16" and 5/32" lengths.
If you have a manual you could look up the size by part number here (https://www.pinballlife.com/semi-tubular-rivet.html):
Williams/Bally reference numbers:
1/8" - 07-6688-16, 07-6688-16N, & 07-6697-2
5/32" - 07-6688-17, 07-6688-17N, & 07-6697-3
3/16" - 07-6688-18, 07-6688-18N, & 07-6697-4
7/32" - 07-6688-19, 07-6688-19A, & 07-6688-19N
1/4" - 07-6688-20 & 07-6688-20N
9/32" - 07-6688-21 & 07-6688-21N
1/2" - 07-6688-26
9/16" - 07-6688-27
Quoted from zerbam:i have the older version of this..........works great
http://www.arbortime.com/
This looks like better quality than what I have, and has great reviews. I just ordered one, hopefully it will help me be a riveting fool (instead of just a fool).
2 weeks later
Update: the pintonka clamp/press from arbortime arrived and it's awesome! They provide a guarantee with a test piece, a penny with a hole and an appropriately sized rivet. It works so well! The alignment is great, and there's hardly any play. Clinching was a cinch!
IMG_20220209_085750459 (resized).jpgIMG_20220209_085801337 (resized).jpgIMG_20220209_085840394 (resized).jpgQuoted from zerbam:i have the older version of this..........works great
http://www.arbortime.com/
Just ordered one for my self.
Thanks,
Complete rivet noob here. I want to replace a stand up target face on my Joker Poker. I don't foresee having to rivet often so I want to get away with the most inexpensive method as possible and the rollover punch that pinballinreno posted about seems to be the way. What will I need to get to accomplish this?
Also, what is the best way to remove the old rivet/target face. Drill it out?
Quoted from FatPanda:Complete rivet noob here. I want to replace a stand up target face on my Joker Poker. I don't foresee having to rivet often so I want to get away with the most inexpensive method as possible and the rollover punch that pinballinreno posted about seems to be the way. What will I need to get to accomplish this?
Also, what is the best way to remove the old rivet/target face. Drill it out?
Using that method you'll need the rollover punch, an appropriately sized rivet (ideally made of nickel plated brass), and a hammer.
You'll need to use a 1/8 in drill bit to drill out the old rivet.
Quoted from explosiveegg:Using that method you'll need the rollover punch, an appropriately sized rivet (ideally made of nickel plated brass), and a hammer.
You'll need to use a 1/8 in drill bit to drill out the old rivet.
Im using a 3/16" drill bit, either in a drill motor if a hand vice (bit holder). It doesnt take much, or many turns at all.
I no longer drill thru the rivets.
Instead I just thin down the rivet flange to paper thinness.
If you use a brand new bit 3/16" or 1/4", you can use it to carve the flange down a bit by hand even.
Then push the rivet out with a 1/16" harbor freight pin pinch over a 1/4" socket on an extention in my vice as a "catcher".
Generally you need just a light tap with a hammer to get them to push out.
The thinned down flange of soft brass, "folds" around the tool and pushes thru the hole.
A 1/4" hole in a piece of hard wood would accomplish the same think I think.
This avoids the spinning rivet problem which melts plastics etc.
In metal parts you need very little thinning down to pop the rivet thru, sometimes none at all.
This method is 10 times faster and easier on the parts.
Quoted from FatPanda:Ok, so a set like this would work
amazon.com link »
Those are for roll pins.
You're trying to do a tubular rivet. amazon.com link »
Quoted from explosiveegg:Those are for roll pins.
You're trying to do a tubular rivet. amazon.com link »
Ok glad I asked. Will this work? $6 vs $30
amazon.com link »
Quoted from FatPanda:Ok glad I asked. Will this work? $6 vs $30
amazon.com link »
The bottom of the rivet should roll around and make a curve. This tools appears to be flat and would just flatten the bottom.
It's definitely not the right tool for the job, but you might be able to get it to work for you.
People in the comments said they made it work for a 1/8 in rivet.
Quoted from FatPanda:Ok glad I asked. Will this work? $6 vs $30
amazon.com link »
Most people buy the hanson hand clincher. It works reliably.
the gunsmith punches look pretty good for roll pins and rivet removal. My preference is the flat ended "pin punch" though, you can use then for a lot of things, even pounding out dents etc.
To set a rivet, you can widen the end of the tube with a fat center punch:
Then strike it down with a flat hammer. A dull drill bit would probably work. Brass is pretty forgiving.
This method works pretty good if you can get the rivet flange past 45 degrees with a fat punch.
You dont really need a lot of exotic tools if its only a couple rivets.
Quoted from pinballinreno:You dont really need a lot of exotic tools if its only a couple rivets.
Yeah, that's why I'm trying to find something cheap or something that will work. I'm sure I'll use it more if I have it, but for right now, it'll only be the one standup target face that I'll be replacing.
Quoted from FatPanda:Yeah, that's why I'm trying to find something cheap or something that will work. I'm sure I'll use it more if I have it, but for right now, it'll only be the one standup target face that I'll be replacing.
I would just use the fat old center punch and a hammer.
Its been done this way for years on casual repairs.
Nickel plated brass rivets are more forgiving than steel ones.
Quoted from pinballinreno:I would just use the fat old center punch and a hammer.
Its been done this way for years on casual repairs.
Nickel plated brass rivets are more forgiving than steel ones.
That will work for me!
PBR says the target face will come with 1 rivet...so if I muck it up, I'll be SOL.
Would these rivets work for extras?
amazon.com link »
thanks again for answering. From someone that only knows the existence of rivets but has never actually had to fasten anything, there's a lot of stuff out there to make it confusing.
Quoted from FatPanda:That will work for me!
PBR says the target face will come with 1 rivet...so if I muck it up, I'll be SOL.
Would these rivets work for extras?
amazon.com link »
thanks again for answering. From someone that only knows the existence of rivets but has never actually had to fasten anything, there's a lot of stuff out there to make it confusing.
PBR sells extras. I had them throw 20 extra in last time I ordered faces.
Quoted from BorgDog:PBR sells extras. I had them throw 20 extra in last time I ordered faces.
Awesome. I'll have to add that into my order.
That link is going to all kinds of various hardware for me. What you're looking for are "tubular" rivets. They look like a short stubby shiny nail with a hollow shaft. 1/8" are what you'll use for pinball stuff. The correct length will vary, depending on the thickness of what you're working with. Probably somewhere between 5/32 and 7/32 for ramps, plastics, and things like that. I'd get an assortment of sizes just to be safe, they're pretty cheap.
totally tubular (resized).pngAfter 23 years of rivet intimidation i bought the pintonka. I cant believe how easy it is to use. I am revisiting all my games with partially installed new plastic sets.
Quoted from Astill:After 23 years of rivet intimidation i bought the pintonka. I cant believe how easy it is to use. I am revisiting all my games with partially installed new plastic sets.
The new rev 2, pintonka is rock solid.
The older one works well enough, but flexes a bit if you have to tighten down it a lot.
2 months later
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