No gut wrenching emotional comparisons required to run this routine.

Would I spend $x on pin A? if yes,
Am I ready to buy pin A? if yes,
Do I have $x? if no,
Do I have pins B and C to sell for $x? if yes,
Am I ready to sell pins B and C? if yes,
Trade B and C for A = yes

Would I buy JJPPOTC or TBL or Alien or BBBr or (insert dream theme) for $12k? yes

JJPOTC > Alien > TBL > BBBr

BTW - what do these pins have in common? They were all produced in low quantities that fell short of demand. They subsequently enjoy strong demand and high prices today.

No sir. I would not.

That sounds like a terrible trade. JJPPOTC not worth 2 games.

No game (even my favorites) are worth 12 grand to me. I'd sell any game if it ever got to that value and buy some less expensive ones. 2 games all day!

Pinheads are basically paying the equivalent for them - just look at the market sales.

JJP Pirates is a truly unique and fantastic playing game! And like other JJP games, it is more suited for home collectors who have the opportunity to set it up properly, take the time to learn its rules, and fully experience its gameplay in a proper environment. Those who haven't, or don't, are unlikely to ever appreciate more than a portion of all that it offers.

POTC stays. I wouldn't buy it for 12k but I wouldn't sell it for 12k either.
Potc and DI are never leaving. Only question I have is why I dont have more JJP games.

As much as I would like a potc, it’s simply not worth giving up my AC/DC premium and Metallica pro for. I’m a big jjp fan, but those prices on potc are stupid ridiculous.

How many JJP POTC's do we think are out there?

What’s a CE in mint condition worth?

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1000 units: 650 LEs, 200 CEs, 150 Standards. These threads remind me of Android vs iOS. Walk into an Apple store and ask if the iPhone is any good. Then go to Best Buy and ask the Android guy what is better. I owned POTC, and while it is an excellent game, it takes forever to play, and isn't instantly fun to play, even after getting pretty good at it, well not for me anyhow... You really have to work at it, and keep working at it. I found myself gravitating to my other games after a while. But it is great for a certain type of owner. If I could sell the $6k games, I wouldn't trade two for a POTC. Just my opinion, I know some feel really passionately about this game. I'd definitely buy another for the original price, but that seems unlikely even if they remake them.

The same thing has happened to all the good classics. A Quicksilver and a Stargazer would fit into 12k if you got good prices. It’s a bummer because I’ll never own a Stargazer because the prices went so bonkers. Hey, who wants to lend me a Stargazer for 6 months?

This thread would be more interesting if the people responding actually and currently have a POTC in their collection.
I won't trade my POTC for multiple games.

I would not also. I have a SE.

I also don’t think I would, though depending on the games I might have to think about it. It’s the most played in my collection.

Take a look at Hobbit. Cheap because it is the least favorite JJP. Best video/sound choreography of any pin made x 10. Cool rules allow you to stage 1-3 balls before starting a mode for 2-4 ball multiball on every mode. My favorite part is each of the miniwizards has 3 stages. I could go on and on but you get the idea. Might be the best $6-$6.5k your ever spend.

Yep - a great pin as well. Love those JJP widebodies!

I have had over 25 pins in my lifetime including many expensive pins but I have never paid for $6k for any of them, or even $5k for any of them...hell barely $4k for any of them...except for the JJP Pirates I bought. So it's funny that I would have been able to choose that option of I've never spent $6k on a game, but the game we are talking about is the sole reason I couldn't. Games to me were never worth and still aren't worth $6k plus, but JJP Pirates was the exception for me and I took the plunge. The game is amazing and had me hooked since the first time I played it on route. I love deep rulesets, unique layouts and challenging games, so it's like this game was made for me. I consider myself extremely lucky to have picked one up like I did for what I did because I know even if they are re-run in the future they will be $11k plus at a minimum and that is out of my league...even for an amazing game like JJP Pirates. I wouldn't sell my JJP Pirates standard for $10k and I got lucky and paid a lot less than that. Nor would I trade it for 2 Sterns because I know I couldn't get one back for that price.

I'm with ya. If someone offered me a Star Wars pro and Munsters pro I would say hell no. Deadpool pro and Stranger Things pro? No way. It's not about quantity but rather having a single high quality loaded widebody pin with multiple interactive mechs, amazing audio, and an incredibly deep ruleset that can change every games thanks to the 20+ characters.

I wouldn't want a couple of those Stern games either. But if it was JP2 Premium and Maiden Pro I would bet that the vast majority would rather have those 2 games vs. a single JPOTC.

No, but I would have to consider a WOZ and a TBL for my JJPOTCSE, it is that good.

I don't think I'd trade or sell my Pirates for $15K, nevermind $12K. Indiana Jones, Twilight Zone, and Wizard of Oz are up there in terms of gorgeous wide bodies that look and play twice as big as anything next to them, but Pirates usually floors me whether I bomb out in 3 minutes or fight for 30. Funny, too, as the playfield art is kinda lousy in a Stern 2010's (eg. Star Trek, Guardians, GOT, etc) cut-and-paste sort of way. But the lights, the two boats, the tall ramps, spinning disc, spinning pops, star map, etc.-- no one has made a nicer looking machine in terms of lights and mechanics. Every game has a range of easy to hard shots, but this really runs the gamut from eyes closed easy (star map) to get the fuck out of here hard (extra ball), and every little step in between. The game's pretty damn great.

I am thinking this ad was the reason the thread started

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/90559

I’ll sell my TZ and IJ for ‘97 prices. How’s that.

Gotcha, yeah, I’d prefer two good ones over one amazing pin. We keep 10 and can flex to 12 with no issue I just try to keep somewhat of a budget in mind for the total amount. I think if I was more limited to only having 2-4 pin i could see choosing something like JJP potc.

If I had no budget then this would be a completely different story

This probably not really answering the OPs question, but in terms of fairness of a deal, market value is the only thing that matters.

This is how I feel about many of Keith's games. They are fun, but they can feel like a chore.

Seems like code can be too deep sometimes, and if the modes are too similar, they can get boring, even with 20 or so characters. Or the multiballs can become excessive. The modes on my TZ are very distinctive and more fun imo, although an easier game, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. How many people have made it all the way through JJPOTC? I wanted to give it another try and was looking, but ended up passing recently on 4 NIB LEs in Australia and Germany for around $10,800 to $11,500 shipped and 3 NIB CEs in Germany and Australia for between $14,600 and $15,500 shipped. For the cost of a CE, I’ve got R&M BS edition and JP2LE nib coming, which are more fun for me.

No, you are not crazy. I purchased both machines around 2009-10 for less than $5000. Both were routed and needed much TLC.

Sorry about that. I had jumped off the JJP train after my WOZ. Was it the clearcoat blowing out after 1 month? Nah, that happens due to modern regulations about what they can use now. It was the 6 months of them not being able to diagnose my game crashing every game (caused by a defect in the way they wired my crystal ball that was shorting out the I/O board). So I guess I shouldn’t speak in threads involving their games anymore.

Oh, no, I wouldn’t trade 2 games for it.

Guess I'm the opposite. I sold my TZ after years of owning one as the ruleset is rather repetitive and lacks modern rules design. Hearing that pop goes the weasel song 500x drove me nuts lol. Pirates rules on the otherhand change with every game thanks to the character abilities. The point of a game as deep as Pirates is that it offers enough depth and variety to keep players coming back for years. That's the type of ruleset I want if I'm going to pay big money for a modern pin.

Also, Keith Johnson himself has described his mini wizard modes as something players can reach on a great game (Destroy the Ring) and his super wizard modes as a mode you can reach on a game of lifetime (Valinor). I personally love that aspect of his ruleset design as there's always something to go after.

I’d definitely try another if they run more. Missed the NIB CE boat at $12.5k just a year ago...that’s ok, I prefer fast flow games.

Having to do a lot of reading and decision making before plunging turns me off right away. Then, if you just full plunge to start the game it usually results in drain sdtm. Bah. Even past all that, I don't find any of the shots too rewarding. Rocking boat is a cool idea but just don't find it fun to play over and over. It does have some cool features, sounds great, and plays pretty good overall. If you have deep pockets I can see getting one but not if you have to trade out 2 really good games. Even a $6000 game is pretty expensive for me. Even if I like Pirates more, I still would rather have two great games than just one.