Poorly set up games are prone to cheap drains. My Walking Dead rarely drains direct from the pop bumpers.

It's been a while since we've had a good EM thread. I'm excited to see where this goes.

GB.

I find the most games that drain bad are the newest ones (DMD Kiss deserves its own mention)

Flip Flop is a game I remember being super drainy... You have to skillfully nudge the so called "in lanes" to get the ball to the flipper. Haven't played one since I was 12, but I sure remember that goddamn quarter muncher! That's a wish list game for me.

-Steve

- CFTBL can be brutal with SDTM due to increased gap and weak flippers, try it with lightning bats!
- STTNG is another one with the outlanes based on the size and orientation of the slingshots.
- EM Fireball can be infuriating with the zipper flippers and spinner sending balls both SDTM and outlanes.
- F-14 Tomcat with the Yagov target, but that was completely done on design purpose to $!@# with people.
"You can't win! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha..."

Did the TWD code update fix the barn magnet drain? It sucked big time.

GB because it taunts you as being almost playable.

Most EMs never give you such hope to begin with

Might be a wax issue. My playfield is super shiny waxed with Gerlitz guitar wax. The almost always exits the pops onto the left flipper.

If you're not good at them It's an acquired skill

not on my pro, goes SDTM most times, tried the double flip at various times does jack shit,
Yer has the cheap ass drains from the pops also no matter what pitch it is, still my most played game tho,
thank you Lyman

F14. The ball launches straight toward the drain, if your not ready for it, it's gone before you know what's happened.

I find my NGG has a lot of them. The launch ramp to the hole in one often sends the ball airborne, and it's nice if it comes down in the hole in one shot, but often times I find it ricochets or bounces somewhere unintended, hoping and dropping off the upper playfield haphazardly onto the plastics below, and it's sometimes it's hard to regain control.

In addition to launching the ball airborne with the launch ramp, you have the spinning wheel close to the flippers, the pop bumper pit down low on the left (that makes some pop bumper pit exits sketchy), a saucer on the left that launches the ball at some low stand-ups on the right that instantly puts the ball in danger, and a captive ball that is not too far from the flippers. The gopher bash toys are far back, but can send the ball back at you in unpredictable directions, and there are posts galore, including the posts on either side of the launch ramp that are located midfield.

I find my NGG to be pretty brutal with cheap drains, and playing it can be quite a battle. Maybe it's just me.

Agreed with GB...especially the premium. I lose at 1-2 balls a game with the slings '180 spin SDTM' followed by the hop over the outlane. The game is just so poorly designed =(

I would not say cheap drains, I would say games with a difficult layout, that tend to result in abnormally high drains.

WOF
IM with out lanes wide open
STTNG without lane (lame) extenders
AC/DC set at 8.5
WD
GB-flipper gap and low rails for out lane guides

Ghostbusters
ACDC (every location game I played)
CFTBL

Dr. Who
STTNG (without extenders)
BSD

Yeah...when I think of 'cheap drains' I think of completely un-savable. Even a SDTM from TWD magnet 'could' be nudged and saved...or out lanes etc. The stuff that happens on GB is just darn near impossible. It just blows my mind that people played the game during testing..and thought the stuff that was happening was OK

I scoff at all of your wimpy SDTM's - try Old Chicago with the two lower pop bumpers 2" directly above the outlanes.
Now that's a power drain, makes a man out of you.

My sttng outlanes are brutal. Seems like 90% of the time it goes down the outlane.
Walking dead. Sdtm all the time.

My Firepower seems to have a lot of very quick drains just off the plunge where you never get to flip the ball.
Two most common scenarios involve plunging the ball and having it drop down through one of the top rollovers and then either: 1) the ball bounces left off a jet bumper and takes a small hop off the long rubber that lines the outside surface of the left orbit channel and then heads SDTM, or 2) the ball rockets back and forth between the 4 jet bumpers a few times and then hits off the inside posts of the standup-target banks and trickles SDTM.

You want power drains, FP can accommodate that too as the slings and jet bumpers can throw the ball out the side drains quicker than an Aroldis Chapman fastball.

No timed ball save feature on that era (assuming you haven't had a single shot at activating the left-side shield).

I've had games where I didn't get to flip all 3 balls and just barely managed to top 10,000 points.

Ok here is where we agree to disagree. Yes I think GB is difficult and not a friendly game to play for a novice player but it is not impossible. I have told several friends that are interested in one for their family that it is a very difficult game and not everyone likes that. The flipper gap is one of Trudeau's signature designs and the magnets/out lanes really make this game unique in the fact that it makes GB extremely un-predictable. Often times the speed of the ball is so fast that nudging and ball control are difficult. I personally think the game has gotten easier and easier as you learn to control your shots and progress further and further into the game. One example of learning the game play is when the left scoop eject rockets the ball towards the flippers. I have found it does not drain if I have it dead bounce off right flipper first, then get control. Now it has become a habit while playing. The high scores people are posting indicates that yes GB is difficult but if you learn the layout you can conquer the objectives and progress further. I really like difficult games that are un-predictable, have good flow, are fast, and kick you in the balls every once and awhile. Difficult pinball machines and cheap drains go hand in hand.

Congo... out of the pops then STDM way too often

There are cheap drains and there are complete BS drains. The pinball jumping over the in lane guide is complete and total BS. Gb is one of my favorites but that is some horse sh!t.

Wow really? Had mine for year's and maybe have had it happened a hand full of times...

Yea all the gb ive played had some crap drains that even the best players wldnt be able to save....

Congo should almost always go to left flipper, dead bounce to right flipper. I vote for:
GB
Avatar
TWD
Aztec
Paragon

Then adjust the gd thing until it doesn't stdm from the pops as noted in the club thread. Most machines don't have stdm pops issues, and those that did have adjusted the level slightly to remove it. It is rarely discussed any more. The prison magnet is not an issue for most as well, and also has a few adjustments noted.

No stdm drain issues on the prem/le here.

Side drains can be a pita at times, but I can say that for a bunch of pins.

Ghostbusters - all day, every day and Sunday too.

Anything with Ousler Outlanes™

It's a design flaw/feature. People don't set up TWD any different than other pins, yet there are far more reports of cheap drains. That's a design issue.

Sure it can be fixed with a special setup. But it's an issue that shouldn't be there.

For me, skillful nudging while in the pops usually avoids SDtM. If the ball just barely misses the post at the exit from the pops I have to slide save or it's gone.

Without a doubt ......Ghostbusters. Guaranteed to always happens.

I don't know that I would call it "cheap drains", but definitely BSD. In all honesty, that's one of the reasons I love the game. To the contrary, some people don't like it at all for that reason. One of the fastest and difficult pins to master shots, at least gracefully, IMO. You try to stay away from the stand ups directly in front of the flips, but when you ricochet off of those, the ball comes back at you like a damn bullet.

Fish Tales will piss you off on occasion.

TZ pops to left drain.

Anything that is avoidable by not missing shots shouldn't be considered a cheap drain. You don't get house balls on most modern games. Pretty much every game in the DMD era allows for a certain level of control from the initial plunge or has a ball saver to safeguard against a very fast drain. If you miss a shot and it drains, that's not cheap, it's just hard. A drain from a sling shouldn't ever be considered cheap, because proper play should have you avoiding the slings at all costs unless the initial plunge directs the ball to the slings.

EMs are notorious for house balls, and so are many early SS games. To me, the house ball is the only real "BS cheap drain" in pinball, even including games that often punish you from made shots (because you can avoid them).

Ghostbusters,Ghostbusters,Ghostbusters, Ghostbusters Ghostbusters, and while I am at it Ghostbusters.

FYI, I talked to Steve Ritchie about 10 years ago and he said he would have added lane extenders if he had more time. Add them with his blessing.

The Expressway at the Houston Arcade Expo was kicking SDtM from the right saucer every time. That was annoying.

WOZ outer lanes. oh but wait, there are rollovers to extend your ball time....lmao

In my experience, GB and TWD.

I have TWD on location and turned the magnet off. Got tired of seeing people have to slide save just to save the ball off the magnet.

I guess you could call these cheap drains, as I only paid $600 for it.

TradeWinds (resized).jpg

I know this is probably more of a setup issue, but I just played a Flintstones for the first time the other day. The geometry of the plunge had me scratching my head. Ball went around the orbit, and then across the PF straight into the right outlane. Ball Saved. Then it plunges it again... right into the damn right outlane. This happened on 2 of my 3 balls and I was able to nudge 1 ball in play. Then I went back later to see if that was just a fluke and it happened on ANOTHER 2 out of 3 balls. That was enough Flintstones for me.

Anecdotal crap not worthy of any more brief attention. But by all means though, keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

TWD right out of the pops kills me. SDTM way too often.

I don't mind a challenge at all, I never adjust outlanes or add bigger rubbers, but when it goes SDTM like 60%+, it takes some fun out of the game for me.

I'm far from a great player, but this is more than a "play better" situation IMO.