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I think "design flaw" is a bit of an overstatement for some of the issues mentioned in this thread. Pinball is a game of mm. A slightly bent ball guide can make a big difference in how a ball reacts. No game is designed to have the ball go STDM from the pops 60% of the time. In any sort of hand assembled product like a pinball machine there may be variances and the machine has to be adjusted.

I get on location these things would be more frustrating than not, because you cannot adjust them yourselves, but it doesn't mean the overall design of the machine is flawed.

Ever play Spy Hunter? Hahaha. Well, technically it hits the unobstructed outlane off the pop a little more than SDTM.

Aren't all pinball machines supposed to be easy?

If they aren't, you better call it flawed!

Yup, might as well just rename this thread: "Ghostbusters is the most unfair fun-sucking game ever made". Every single one I've played has SOME problem of SOME sort to fuck the player.

Gotta agree with all the comments in GB. I enjoy playing it but there always seems to be some kind of problem that spoils it from being great.

I don't know if all Shadows are like mine but mine drains like crazy. Hitting the sanctum or battlefield targets often send the ball sdtm. Same for any missed ramp shots. Outlane drains are also very common.

Most annoying for me is STTNG without the extended guides. With the canons blocking the view, you have no chance to save the ball.

STTNG - the outlanes and slingshot shape make this game one that I refuse to put quarters into. Pure evil.

TWD - for all of you who are like "my game doesn't drain out of the pops..." Good for you. Every single TWD I have played does. Bad design that again, makes me resolved to not put cash into them on location.

Those two are my main complaints due to the game design being the cause of the drains. Effing quarter thieves these two.

This was my selection as well. The black hole is KILLER! Now my other game, Xenon, rarely drains, and usually a well timed nudge can keep that from happening. Only the "straight down" are the ones you cannot stop.

I haven't played a lot of newer games but one of the establishments I frequent has a Kiss Pro, and that stupid demon lock spits the ball right down the middle almost every time. Its so frustrating!

You have to pay attention on this game. Watch the ball as it's exiting the pop area. Usually it will catch the post on the right and deflect to the left flipper. If you can see it's not going to catch the post, you need to shove the game to the left to bump the ball a bit and help it out.

Congo out of the pops

Tell that establishment to update the code. A ball save was added with one of the code revisions.

Great games are approachable to novices, but reward expert players with special modes or scoring opportunities. Ghostbusters is exclusively for excellent players and is impossible for novices. I can't understand the business case for a machine that is made exclusively for expert players - that's a small sub-market of a small market.

I think its BSD by a mile. Never get 3 balls in a row without feeling a screwed.

For me, it's Pinbot.

It's such a shame. I love -everything- about that game except how ripped off I feel 2 out of 3 balls.

Its waa broken then bc its supposed to go in to the pops after launch....there's 2 controlled gates that's were probably broken

STTNG no question. Mine doesn't have lane extenders but I'm damn interested in learning more about these Where?

thx!

http://www.pinbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=306

A good tip for STTNG - if the ball is coming toward the top of the right sling, give the game a "forward nudge"...the ball will almost always bounce up and ricochet off the yellow targets, avoiding the outlane completely.

That's what made me trade TWD for XMLE. We have so much more fun with XMLE. TWD was just so frustrating because the ball spends most of the time in pops area that even 30% STDM drains were way too much to endure.

I've got to echo Pinbot. I've played an entire game with out touching a ball....

Had the game for 10 years and I don't think I've ever tried a forward nudge on it there. I usually close my eyes, squeal like a girl and shake side to side

Thanks for the tip, will try that out.

KISS, ball saver doesn't always cover it. Played it in league over the summer, where we didn't have ability to tweak gene Simmons on location. Saw a few people have their turns end prematurely by locking balls.

They shouldn't stand so close together.

The Dark Knight's clunky ramp that often will send shots not sent all the way up right down the middle. That's one that annoyed me enough to sell it.

Of the B/W titles I've owned, STTNG was the most punishing, followed by TZ (balls in the jets to the left outlane was vicious on my example).
For Stern, GB and TWD (even with the posts moved in all the way in), can be very drainy on the outlanes. Now in saying this, I enjoy all 4 titles.

Data East Star Trek.... sometimes the subway popper just drains straight down the center.

machines ive owned... Ghostbusters. The Shadow

machines ive played on location... AC/DC (and the tilt was set so sensitive if you leaned on the damn thing it tilted!!)

have an F-14, and can save the yakov kicker everytime on the left flipper!!

p.s. did I mention I sold my damn ghostbusters? F that machine!! LOL

My Taxi sends the ball straight between the flippers all the time. It happens so fast and there is just enough space that neither flipper can hit it.

I always thought ACDC was brutal, especially from the cannon.

True. But GB is one of the "other" modern games. Not only are many shots hard, and you're severely punished if you miss, but there really is no way of progressing without taking risky shots. (Im still on 1.05)

Left loop shot, essential in many modes, feeds in to the pops and from there it's a lottery - left exit can often result in a cheap SDTM, right exit also, or into the slings.

Left captive ball is very important, but super risky with almost no way to guarantee where the ball will end up.

Scoleri Bros - you could try to avoid them all together, but they are often awarded from pop awards or Tobins.

Gozer shot into the pops - again risky exit.

And then you've got the Ghost target.

I like the difficulty as it keeps me coming back for more punishment until that one perfect game (combined with lots of luck) when you blow it up. That's why I'm still on 1.05 - because its hard. But I do feel cheated sometimes on GB (and sometimes TWD, but less so). Almost every other game when I drain I can look at the stupid or poorly judged shot I made and think "I deserved that". My GB on the other hand is lucky its still in one piece.

Yeah! I was thinking of this thread in terms of STDM, but man, the thrill of hitting a huge jackpot followed by the agony of bouncing straight over to the outlane.

I didn't really know what cheap BS drains were until GB. All other games mentioned I would just call punishing. GB is full of cheap, BS drains as mentioned in the title.

Road Kings right outlane....gobbles everything up

Thats why I sold it to you Randy
I'm sure I would have smashed the glass by now,lol

Maybe you need a RZ instead.

LOL... brutal.

A full plunge on some poorly tuned white waters will send the ball straight up, around behind Bigfoot, down the spine chiller ramp, and down the drain. Every time.

Luckily, the game will give your ball back to you since you didn't score a point, but damn, it's funny to watch someone lose 4/5 balls in 2 seconds that way.

AC/DC on location is pure savagery!

AC/DC Pro was the worst I ever owned. Perfectly hit your shot and get rewarded with a SDTM (Bell shot). It's the reason I sold it.

GB is pretty bad. I hear TWD a lot but so far I've had decent luck playing that one.

I'm glad I don't see a lot of IM. It's a brutal game but it punishes you for missed shots.....no cheap drains (love that game).

So I'm interpreting your title "BS Drains" are games that might be drainy in a more sneaky fashion as opposed to something like GB that's just designed to be evil.

Metallica's left outlane comes to mind. The right outlane/inlane area on skateball is goofy on some machines. The worst offender of all to me is future spa. Even with the gate open where you have 3 of the 4 lanes on the left that are safe, the ball still finds a way to find that one lane that'll drain you.

A bit of a forgotten title here, but Space Station is downright evil at times. The pops are a required interface and although most of the time they're generous enough to rack points, multipliers and rollovers... OTOH they can (and do) rocket the ball directly to that wide right outlane, or STDM, in a nanosecond. Add that to the lack of inlanes, with brutal punishment for missed shots, and you have a recipe for some infuriating rounds.

Even PAPA's video of this game perfectly captures this: Ball one deceptively blows up, while 2 and 3 are essentially scratched.

I hear what you mean, happens to me on that game too. But I put that drain on me, not the game. If you don't hit a smooth ramp shot, it's not the game's fault. That's just bad shot making.

When "The Power" is on in TAF, give up all hope. It can take a perfectly good ball and shove it out of reach.

Surprised no one mentioned this.

I have that game and can attest to the fact that it seems to be a cheap drain when the ball comes out of the weapons van, hits the pop bumper and drains out the left outlane immediately. I still keep the game around for because of that odd layout, however.

Yea we are liking that one right now to.
IM was horrible for drains down the middle to.
Totally agree with GB having brutal drains.

At the same time, it can take a ball that's going straight down the middle, and whip it over to one of your flippers!

It's a love, hate relationship for sure. One of my favorite features.

Has anybody mentioned GB yet?