(Topic ID: 321818)

Worst playfield design decision in modern pinball?

By westofrome

26 days ago


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  • 251 posts
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  • Latest reply 9 days ago by DropGems
  • Topic is favorited by 11 Pinsiders

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    There are 251 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 6.
    #201 22 days ago
    Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

    Ghostbusters is the only modern-ish Stern I actively and strongly dislike because of the playfield design. And even only counting since its release, that's a lot of games.

    Frankly I'm surprised for the hate for the game, obviously a lot of people love it.

    I have one and not a particularly skilled player, enjoy playing it time to time and it doesn't make me feel like I just got punched in the face like Black Hole does.

    Black Hole is just brutal, I still have not broken the default high score of 780,000.

    #202 21 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Amusing that people complain about the pops in Ghostbusters when on Trek there is only one exit.
    Down to the right upper flipper, shoot the warp ramp.

    I saw a picture of the ST whitewood and it looked like there was also an exit to the left. I wish it had been left that way, but maybe it didn't play as well?

    Rob

    #203 21 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Frankly I'm surprised for the hate for the game, obviously a lot of people love it.
    I have one and not a particularly skilled player, enjoy playing it time to time and it doesn't make me feel like I just got punched in the face like Black Hole does.
    Black Hole is just brutal, I still have not broken the default high score of 780,000.

    I agree, Ghostbusters is one of the few modern Stern games I actually enjoy.
    Cftbl is a game I’ve been struggling with for 15 (!) years. I’ve only recently started reaching the replay limit but I’m nowhere close to even reaching the lowest high score. Brutal game with no clear way of earning big points…

    #204 21 days ago
    Quoted from Rob_G:

    I saw a picture of the ST whitewood and it looked like there was also an exit to the left. I wish it had been left that way, but maybe it didn't play as well?
    Rob

    Pretty sure that is where the Black Hole switch is, which I always thought was oddly placed. Too many SDTM drains? At any rate I don't mind the design, fun game in my lineup.

    #205 21 days ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    The Hobbit's third flipper makes this one look like a masterpiece.

    IMG_20220912_220546 (resized).jpg
    #206 21 days ago

    Scream - I guess you weren't around when the Hobbit came out. The 3rd flipper was it's own meme at the time.

    But upper flippers always have shots you can't make from the lower. A ramp, a set of drop targets, an orbit, something, it's their entire purpose.

    None of the shots you listed are exclusive to the 3rd flipper on the Hobbit, they can all be made from the bottom of the playfield so what's the point of it?

    #207 21 days ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Scream - I guess you weren't around when the Hobbit came out. The 3rd flipper was it's own meme at the time.
    But upper flippers always have shots you can't make from the lower. A ramp, a set of drop targets, an orbit, something, it's their entire purpose.
    None of the shots you listed are exclusive to the 3rd flipper on the Hobbit, they can all be made from the bottom of the playfield so what's the point of it?

    Yes.

    #208 21 days ago
    Quoted from Boxedbeef:

    Clearly it is Fish Tales for me .. could have been great a Great game , I could have been a
    Spinners Club member ! Wonderful Toys , Cross Loops and Fishing Rod and Reel .. when the ball isn’t always draining straight down the middle , you can try an impossible shot to the extra ball or the casting reel .. no luck there either . A masterpiece that got too greedy ! By far I have always had the shortest ball times of anything I have played since early EM Games

    Fish Tales - an impossible shot for extra ball or the Casters Club
    Both of those are standard shots . I usually lock a ball from a plunge and like jaybird says , the easiest way to get extra ball is to backhand it from the left flipper .
    The most dangerous shot is The Captive ball , but they're not gonna make it easy to give you the good stuff like video mode , Rock the Boat or Super Jackpots .
    Fishtales is a brilliant , hard , fast game which keeps you coming back for more .
    That's why I've had it for 22 years and counting , and it's not leaving .

    #209 21 days ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Scream - I guess you weren't around when the Hobbit came out. The 3rd flipper was it's own meme at the time.
    But upper flippers always have shots you can't make from the lower. A ramp, a set of drop targets, an orbit, something, it's their entire purpose.
    None of the shots you listed are exclusive to the 3rd flipper on the Hobbit, they can all be made from the bottom of the playfield so what's the point of it?

    I get the point you're saying but the fact you can hit all those shots with the upper Flipper makes it useful .
    It's a lot easier to go for the drop target that is down to kill Smaug than it is with the lower flippers .

    #210 21 days ago

    Freddy NOES - The glove flipper is pretty much useless. There is only one shot tied to it, otherwise it's a pointless extra. But that is more of just an optional thing that was pointless, what was awful was the placement of the freddy spitting ball head, as the spitting mechanism is very unreliable and the balls can end up dribbling straight down the middle.

    #211 21 days ago
    Quoted from screaminr:

    I get the point you're saying but the fact you can hit all those shots with the upper Flipper makes it useful .
    It's a lot easier to go for the drop target that is down to kill Smaug than it is with the lower flippers .

    And it's also very handy in multiball to get the shots you need .

    #212 21 days ago
    Quoted from screaminr:

    I get the point you're saying but the fact you can hit all those shots with the upper Flipper makes it useful .
    It's a lot easier to go for the drop target that is down to kill Smaug than it is with the lower flippers .

    It sets up the Smaug kill. That’s enough for the flipper to be worth it. That moment is incredible.

    #213 21 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Frankly I'm surprised for the hate for the game, obviously a lot of people love it.
    I have one and not a particularly skilled player, enjoy playing it time to time and it doesn't make me feel like I just got punched in the face like Black Hole does.
    Black Hole is just brutal, I still have not broken the default high score of 780,000.

    Yeah but Black Hole is actually super fun unlike ghostbusters which is the opposite of fun

    #214 21 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Yeah but Black Hole is actually super fun unlike ghostbusters which is the opposite of fun

    I'm 180 on that opinion.

    Black Hole is an exercise in frustration at times, when you actually get multi-ball it feels like an accomplishment.

    -1
    #216 21 days ago

    It would have to be placing the outkick hole hidden underneath plastic 6 inches from the flipper like Halloween.
    Hey look up at the screen to figure out whats going on after it went into a scoop, Surprise, your ball just went down the drain! Whah whah whah.

    #217 21 days ago

    Why is the flipper Gap such a big deal on Ghostbusters but is not on games with lightning flippers ?

    #218 21 days ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    It would have to be placing the outkick hole hidden underneath plastic 6 inches from the flipper like Halloween.
    Hey look up at the screen to figure out whats going on after it went into a scoop, Surprise, your ball just went down the drain! Whah whah whah.

    Halloween does have a flashing lamp under the plastic to let you know where the ball is coming out.

    I actually like the stealthy nature, fits the theme.

    #219 21 days ago
    Quoted from screaminr:

    Fish Tales - an impossible shot for extra ball or the Casters Club
    Both of those are standard shots . I usually lock a ball from a plunge and like jaybird says , the easiest way to get extra ball is to backhand it from the left flipper .
    The most dangerous shot is The Captive ball , but they're not gonna make it easy to give you the good stuff like video mode , Rock the Boat or Super Jackpots .
    Fishtales is a brilliant , hard , fast game which keeps you coming back for more .
    That's why I've had it for 22 years and counting , and it's not leaving .

    I think you mean backhand from right flipper which is what I do. Easy shot. Whitewater has the most difficult extra ball shot that I can think of. Almost guaranteed to drain if you shoot for it on purpose.

    #220 21 days ago
    Quoted from screaminr:

    Why is the flipper Gap such a big deal on Ghostbusters but is not on games with lightning flippers ?

    Because it’s larger than the gap created by lightning flippers.

    #221 21 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    I'm 180 on that opinion.
    Black Hole is an exercise in frustration at times, when you actually get multi-ball it feels like an accomplishment.

    Because it is an accomplishment! I've had my black hole for....sheesh I don't even know...7 years now maybe? Anyway, I think I've had multiball 3 times. Love that game! At least its fair in its brutality. OK maybe the drain from the lower playfield is a bit too much on the harsh side, but at least the ball didn't fly over the top of the flippers because you hit a target you were supposed to hit.

    #222 21 days ago

    Some people don't like how the ball can drain from the lower playfield on Black Hole, while I think that's an excellent feature. Light your re-entry before going down or complete the lower playfield goals for re-entry. I think it's a good way to deal with a player spending too much time "out of danger" in a lower or upper playfield.

    Different strokes for different folks

    #223 21 days ago
    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    Some people don't like how the ball can drain from the lower playfield on Black Hole, while I think that's an excellent feature.
    Different strokes for different folks

    Reentry attempt FAILED

    #224 21 days ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Because it’s larger than the gap created by lightning flippers.

    Compared to some 60s EM... ha.

    #225 21 days ago

    For me, "modern" would be Halloween most likely. Shots frustrate me. Second would be JJP GnR. No matter how many times I play this game it just never feels like it has flow and isn't that fun. Its a good game for sure, but it has many faults that make me not want to play it. Lastly, no matter how many times I play it I simply cannot have fun on Stranger Things. Love the show/theme, but I just walk past the pin every time.

    #226 21 days ago
    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    Some people don't like how the ball can drain from the lower playfield on Black Hole, while I think that's an excellent feature. Light your re-entry before going down or complete the lower playfield goals for re-entry. I think it's a good way to deal with a player spending too much time "out of danger" in a lower or upper playfield.
    Different strokes for different folks

    It doesn't bother me either, I like it, but it is brutal lol. It makes sense though too since the lower playfield is basically where you score all your points.

    #227 21 days ago
    Quoted from superNoid:

    For me, "modern" would be Halloween most likely. Shots frustrate me. Second would be JJP GnR. No matter how many times I play this game it just never feels like it has flow and isn't that fun. Its a good game for sure, but it has many faults that make me not want to play it. Lastly, no matter how many times I play it I simply cannot have fun on Stranger Things. Love the show/theme, but I just walk past the pin every time.

    See I take the view there is something for everyone. GnR isn't for me, other people love it.

    Some guys like blonds, other brunettes. Neither one is bad.

    'cept my ex, she was a lunatic.

    #228 21 days ago
    Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

    Ghostbusters is the only modern-ish Stern I actively and strongly dislike because of the playfield design. And even only counting since its release, that's a lot of games.

    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Frankly I'm surprised for the hate for the game, obviously a lot of people love it.

    For me it was the flipper gap + preposterous airballs + somehow-worse-than-Borg Borging double left inlanes + not registering/dropping Scolari targets.

    Many games have cheap/unfair drains. This game collects them like stamps.

    Throw in repetitive rules and callouts, and without even considering the infamy of the designer you get the worst Stern since Indiana Jones (in my opinion, of course).

    #229 21 days ago
    Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

    For me it was the flipper gap + preposterous airballs + somehow-worse-than-Borg Borging double left inlanes + not registering/dropping Scolari targets.
    Many games have cheap/unfair drains. This game collects them like stamps.
    Throw in repetitive rules and callouts, and without even considering the infamy of the designer you get the worst Stern since Indiana Jones (in my opinion, of course).

    OK, who brought the dog?

    #230 21 days ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    It would have to be placing the outkick hole hidden underneath plastic 6 inches from the flipper like Halloween.
    Hey look up at the screen to figure out whats going on after it went into a scoop, Surprise, your ball just went down the drain! Whah whah whah.

    The game flashes the inlane before the ball comes out and also it plays a unique noise also when it does this. Shouldn't surprise anyone.

    #231 21 days ago
    Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

    For me it was the flipper gap + preposterous airballs + somehow-worse-than-Borg Borging double left inlanes + not registering/dropping Scolari targets.
    Many games have cheap/unfair drains. This game collects them like stamps.
    Throw in repetitive rules and callouts, and without even considering the infamy of the designer you get the worst Stern since Indiana Jones (in my opinion, of course).

    I'm just not seeing it.

    SDTM off the drops are no worse or worse then making the wrong shot at the center targets on Firepower.

    Perhaps you just have not played a "good one" or don't like the theme. Pro does play different than Prem so is that a factor? Can't say.

    -1
    #232 21 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    I'm just not seeing it.
    SDTM off the drops are no worse or worse then making the wrong shot at the center targets on Firepower.
    Perhaps you just have not played a "good one" or don't like the theme. Pro does play different than Prem so is that a factor? Can't say.

    Its way different than firepower. The Scolari bros are half the distance to the flippers than the targets in firepower, the flippers are like half as strong in firepower as well, so the ball is moving like twice as slow giving and going twice as far giving you infinity more years to react than what you get in Ghostbusters then you add in the gargantuan flipper gap on top of it its not even a comparison. Thats not even mentioning how if it doesn't go stdm it can easily catch an airball (one of many places) and fly right over the top of the flippers or the lane guides. Garbage design and well documented problem. Scolari bros isn't the only place on the game that causes this to happen either. It can hop over the lanes with ease just from a normal ball coming at them.

    Not liking the theme? Who tf doesn't like GB as a theme? Its probably the best theme ever in pinball. The fact they made such a horrible game around the best theme is one of the biggest travesties of all.

    #233 21 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Its way different than firepower. The Scolari bros are half the distance to the flippers than the targets in firepower, the flippers are like half as strong in firepower as well, so the ball is moving like twice as slow giving and going twice as far giving you infinity more years to react than what you get in Ghostbusters then you add in the gargantuan flipper gap on top of it its not even a comparison. Thats not even mentioning how if it doesn't go stdm it can easily catch an airball (one of many places) and fly right over the top of the flippers or the lane guides. Garbage design and well documented problem. Scolari bros isn't the only place on the game that causes this to happen either. It can hop over the lanes with ease just from a normal ball coming at them.
    Not liking the theme? Who tf doesn't like GB as a theme? Its probably the best theme ever in pinball. The fact they made such a horrible game around the best theme is one of the biggest travesties of all.

    [EDIT] Sorry, misread your post saying firepowers flippers are half as powerful.. lol.. thought you were saying GB flippers were half. [/EDIT]

    Anyway, carry-on.

    Wha? Sys6 Flippers are pretty sluggish even for that era. 24v or something? If you played a Ghostbusters where the flippers felt even remotely close to that, then that Ghostbusters definitely had issues.

    Not trying to trash on Firepower, one of my favourite classics.. just trying to figure out where half the power comment would be coming from.

    #234 21 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Its way different than firepower. The Scolari bros are half the distance to the flippers than the targets in firepower, the flippers are like half as strong in firepower as well, so the ball is moving like twice as slow giving and going twice as far giving you infinity more years to react than what you get in Ghostbusters then you add in the gargantuan flipper gap on top of it its not even a comparison.

    If you use the wrong flipper in Firepower at the center L/R targets you are going SDTM.

    No ifs, ands or buts.

    How is that any different than Ghostbusters? You shoot the drop targets taking care not to smack them face on, simple as that.

    If I can pick off the ORBS drops in order playing Centaur, making an edge shot off the GB drops is very doable and doesn't require some magical skill. Because frankly I have none!

    #235 21 days ago
    Quoted from koji:

    Not trying to trash on Firepower, one of my favourite classics.. just trying to figure out where half the power comment would be coming from.

    Not trashing Firepower, its just part of playing the game! You learn right quick which bank needs to be hit with which flipper or die a lot!

    #236 21 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Not trashing Firepower, its just part of playing the game! You learn right quick which bank needs to be hit with witch flipper or die a lot!

    Yeah, what would become a staple function of all SR titles after as well.

    #237 21 days ago

    I love BM66 - but both the left ramp (balls flying off or jumping over the end) and the slow speed of the turntable drive me crazy.

    -4
    #238 21 days ago

    rick and morty and led zeppelin are the worst designs in a decade

    #239 21 days ago

    .

    #240 21 days ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    I think you mean backhand from right flipper which is what I do. Easy shot.

    Yep right flipper

    #241 20 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerKraken:

    The game flashes the inlane before the ball comes out and also it plays a unique noise also when it does this. Shouldn't surprise anyone.

    I am well aware of the light flashing but it still gets me and not a fix. In a well lit room it is not very noticable. Also you are distracted by looking at the screen choosing a mode during this time. If you are an owner your used to it, not if you play it ever so often. It happened to me last week and I've played it over 20 times since it came out. How would I know to listen for a unique noise if I don't play it regularly? Yes, I think it surprises everyone and a major design flaw. Just sit at a bar for an hour and watch people play it who are not pinheads and watch there reaction to this.

    #242 20 days ago

    I also think Ghostbusters is one of Sterns best ever games - I've had it for 4 years and I just love playing it. However I'll be the first to admit that it has a few interesting design "features". It absolutely does require mods to cut down on airballs and to stop the ball jumping over lane guides. Also the right ramp on the premium is a super, super tight shot, not really very satisfying to hit and isn't used much in the gameplay (except for PKE you never really have to hit it). Flipper gap is fine don't mind it at all, and the magna slings are a brilliant feature. Yeah sometimes you get unlucky, just the same as with slings on every single pinball machine.

    I have to agree with XMen too - another game I absolutely love, but the newton ball mod is such a vast improvement over the factory Wolverine.

    As for Rick and Morty - you guys that hate it are crazy! That machine is amazingly well designed (hard as nails though).

    1 week later
    #243 11 days ago

    Did someone already mention Woah Nellie/Primus/PBR Can Crusher?

    I really want to like it, but it is horrible. Very limited number of shots, like maybe 5 shots?

    ZERO spinner. Lanes do not toggle with flipper buttons.

    100% the worst layout I have ever seen/owned.

    I have owned Two Primus due to theme and art.

    #244 11 days ago

    I hate Whoa Nellie because it probably poisoned Stern on the idea of simpler single level gameplay for years. Between the art, sounds, and meh playfield design...no surprise that layout didn't sell too many copies.

    Beatles though? Excellent. Next Elwin as a single level? I'm super hyped

    #245 11 days ago
    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    I hate Whoa Nellie because it probably poisoned Stern on the idea of simpler single level gameplay for years. Between the art, sounds, and meh playfield design...no surprise that layout didn't sell too many copies.
    Beatles though? Excellent. Next Elwin as a single level? I'm super hyped

    I didn't hate Woah Nellie, but it really felt more like a novelty than a serious pinball.

    The art package and song selection on Beatles was weak. No idea how many games that sold but I agree gameplay shines on that one.

    #246 10 days ago

    Alice Coopers nightmare castle

    #247 9 days ago

    For a main stream game (not a boutique game like Whoa Nellie or Primus), I’d have to go with Led Zep Pro. It may be fun to play, but it is a lazy barren design.

    #248 9 days ago

    Indy500 lock shot is poorly designed. It is so frustrating to set up that shot, and have it brick over and over, even after making adjustments to it. Then again, when a lock is successfully made, it feels like a major accomplishment.

    #249 9 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Halloween does have a flashing lamp under the plastic to let you know where the ball is coming out.
    I actually like the stealthy nature, fits the theme.

    And a loud audio cue. If the ball drai s more than a few times you're probably drunk.

    #250 9 days ago
    Quoted from xsonics2k2:

    Indy500 lock shot is poorly designed. It is so frustrating to set up that shot, and have it brick over and over, even after making adjustments to it. Then again, when a lock is successfully made, it feels like a major accomplishment.

    I’ve played plenty of examples where it plugs it every time. Definitely a setup issue.

    There are 251 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 6.

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