(Topic ID: 321818)

Worst playfield design decision in modern pinball?

By westofrome

1 year ago


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    There are 252 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 6.
    #101 1 year ago

    Rick and Morty, blah.

    #102 1 year ago
    Quoted from IdahoRealtor:

    Not a playfield issue per se, but what's with the the horrible ratcheting sound when the drop targets reset on Hobbit?

    Those drops are bi directional right? I just assumed whatever enables that to happen causes the weird sound

    #103 1 year ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Well I guess you should buy a lotto ticket because these are extremely well documented problems with the game and somehow you've beaten the odds and literal physics. Thats why they even make mods to fix that problem.

    I changed out the stand up target brackets to Bally/Williams bracket I want to say swinks? Definitely some missteps in there I got a washer under the right ramp and a airball protector over the left ramp similar to what comes on JP's. Say what you want once you get this old girl rolling you're gona be hanging on for mercy!!!

    #104 1 year ago

    It's not the worst, but I dislike when spinners block an insert from view.

    Rob

    #105 1 year ago

    I was not impressed with Houdini.

    #106 1 year ago
    Quoted from gandamack:

    I was not impressed with Houdini.

    Yeah, it never made sense to me until I played it at a friends where they basically explained everything as I was playing. Started to make sense and become fun.. but now I'm sure I've forgotten everything. lol.

    #107 1 year ago

    Anything with a spinning disc or magnets throwing balls around (drains).
    Looking at Dialed In, Fireball, NBA etc.
    Freaking awful.

    #108 1 year ago

    Houdini rules. Shots are cut-throat but give it plenty of time and it all makes perfect sense.

    #109 1 year ago

    WWE…

    #110 1 year ago
    Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

    Games that have a pop cluster, only to feed reliably to an orbit/single exit. Pop clusters SHOULD cause randomness

    I love Ghostbusters overall, but this is my main gripe with it. All that bouncing around at the top just leads to the same two possible dribbles every time. Oh, and the right ramp geometry on the Prem/LE just feels off somehow.

    #111 1 year ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    Ghostbusters is one of Stern's best. Just short of a masterpiece.

    Except for the supposed design flaw that doubled the width of the extra flipper gap and altered the intended geometry of the whole pin. It's a big miss and such a shame since the pin would otherwise be close to perfection.

    #112 1 year ago
    Quoted from jonesjb:

    Except for the supposed design flaw that doubled the width of the extra flipper gap and altered the intended geometry of the whole pin. It's a big miss and such a shame since the pin would otherwise be close to perfection.

    Agreed, though it’s pretty easily fixed with the slightly longer “carrot” flippers.

    #113 1 year ago
    Quoted from turbo2nr:

    you just suck at pinball then?
    I found that game excellent, and kinda easy.
    My brother beat the game within a few weeks of owning it.
    I came close.

    Owned it for two years and it’s among the few games I’ve sold because the playfield is poorly designed. Clunky, even when you make the shots. I don’t suck at pinball. Congrats to your brother.

    #114 1 year ago
    Quoted from jonesjb:

    Except for the supposed design flaw that doubled the width of the extra flipper gap and altered the intended geometry of the whole pin. It's a big miss and such a shame since the pin would otherwise be close to perfection.

    This isn’t a design flaw - it’s present in every one of Trudeau’s games. Creature, for example.

    #115 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    This isn’t a design flaw - it’s present in every one of Trudeau’s games. Creature, for example.

    The extra gap is twice the size of his other ones, supposedly. The flaw isn't that it's there, the flaw is that it's larger than planned.

    #116 1 year ago

    I love seeing all the different opinions here. The hate for Ghostbusters is surprising to me. I love how difficult it is and that flipper gap is amazing. I also love the unconventional layout on Halloween. Seems like most mediocre players on here just want easy layouts with wide repeatable shots. I personally hate that is the games last forever. Give me a brick fest to keep me dialed in.

    #117 1 year ago

    Stern Star Wars skill shot......mic drop!

    #118 1 year ago
    Quoted from jonesjb:

    The extra gap is twice the size of his other ones, supposedly. The flaw isn't that it's there, the flaw is that it's larger than planned.

    No kidding? I hadn't heard that. Ok, that sucks!

    #119 1 year ago

    Another vote for Rick & Morty. Terrible playfield. Poorly placed left ramp. Right ramp is weak and weird. Loop shot is OK if you can ever hit it. Worthless side targets. Orbits rattle. Everything else bricks. Even the horseshoe lock is meh. Guess it goes to show how great the R & M content is that it can make so many believe it's a passable game.

    And Ghostbusters is awesome. Yall are nuts.

    #120 1 year ago
    Quoted from MacGruber:

    I changed out the stand up target brackets to Bally/Williams bracket I want to say swinks? Definitely some missteps in there I got a washer under the right ramp and a airball protector over the left ramp similar to what comes on JP's. Say what you want once you get this old girl rolling you're gona be hanging on for mercy!!!

    Sounds like a great design. Just change out all these parts and then its a good game!

    Quoted from Spelunk71:

    Agreed, though it’s pretty easily fixed with the slightly longer “carrot” flippers.

    See above

    Quoted from jonesjb:

    Except for the supposed design flaw that doubled the width of the extra flipper gap and altered the intended geometry of the whole pin. It's a big miss and such a shame since the pin would otherwise be close to perfection.

    Exactly. Admitted by Stern themselves that it was a mistake. The name of this thread is worst playfield design. I think the playfield that was made with a huge error as admitted by the manufacturer and needs tons of work to make somewhat playable would be a good candidate whether you like the game or not.

    #121 1 year ago

    Magic Girl

    #122 1 year ago

    Admittable, I've never played it, but I always thought Magic Girl looked like a pretty decently designed game from a playfield design standpoint. Obviously, its production was riddled with issues.

    Why is that your go to in terms of bad design?

    #123 1 year ago
    Quoted from explosiveegg:

    Admittable, I've never played it, but I always thought Magic Girl looked like a pretty design game from a playfield design standpoint. Why is that your go to in terms of bad design?

    No shooter lane groove
    Shots that go to nowhere
    Areas of the playfield that a ball can't get too
    The game is unplayable, for the most part, when it was first shipped.

    I'm sure there are more, but the fact it doesn't have a shooter lane groove is one of the most obvious issues.

    #124 1 year ago
    Quoted from Jokerman:

    Genuinely not sure you can generalize on most people’s views (and I could well be wrong here), but appreciate and respect your right to opinion.

    I was just trying to figure out why people pay a premium for it now. It was not worth 4500 back when it was new... Why is it suddenly worth almost twice that now? It's exactly the reason I gave above. A similar comparison is Mustang, WWE, T3, Nascar, BBH. None of them are commanding twice what they did when new and in my silly opinion, they are all better games than Ghostbusters Pro.

    It's just the new reality. With the new pinball market mentality, it does not matter how good a game is when people play it. The going PRICE DOES NOT INDICATE A GOOD GAME LIKE IT DID 10 YEARS AGO. So now good games are worth a stupid amount and good themes are worth close to that same stupid amount. It's really quite silly. I have zero complaints and am actually happy about all this because there are always great games people just don't like because they have "an unpopular or dated theme".

    #125 1 year ago
    Quoted from westofrome:

    Heh, me neither - why on earth isn't this called out on the screen? That's a coding issue, I suppose. Looking forward to trying it.

    I thought I heard about this but forgot to try it out. Just tested it on my LE and it works every time! Mind blown, totally changed my strategy going forward on approaching the game. Much prefer the 3 ball multiball gets than the 2...Why did I forget to try this out.. Kicks self

    #126 1 year ago

    Transformers drop target airball machine

    IJ4–the targets that score zero points and the orbit which dumps into the scoop

    GB corkscrew ramp

    BatmanTDK—all the modes are identical

    BM66 wobbly ramps

    #127 1 year ago

    At this point most modern games have been mentioned in one way or another, so I'll go with something a bit older:

    Gladiators is up there with all time worst playfield designs.

    I really like the idea of the shots on the playfield. But anyone who has played one eventually realizes the physical exploit. Hold the upper left flipper up, and endlessly shoot the upper u turn with the upper right flipper. Very easy shot. It will always safely come back to the upper right flipper while holding up the left flipper.

    Literally breaks the game and ruins an otherwise very imaginative layout.

    #128 1 year ago

    The 2 "X" targets on the upper right hand side Rob Zombie are pretty difficult to hit without divine intervention. Makes it tough in some of the modes.

    #129 1 year ago
    Quoted from canea:

    Another vote for Rick & Morty. Terrible playfield. Poorly placed left ramp. Right ramp is weak and weird. Loop shot is OK if you can ever hit it. Worthless side targets. Orbits rattle. Everything else bricks. Even the horseshoe lock is meh. Guess it goes to show how great the R & M content is that it can make so many believe it's a passable game.
    And Ghostbusters is awesome. Yall are nuts.

    I look at it this way. If you notice there's all this 'oh this person makes the best designs'. What this reads to me is this is what people are used to. They get mad if something is 'difficult' or doesnt' fit their idea of how geometry or flow goes. They want something they can walk up to and feel like they know what they are doing. This isn't for me most of the time.

    Since I gravitate towards different playfields, I have a different opinion. Yes, R&M out of the box has many issues with the shots. However, the actual design of the game is fine. The shots are not like Stern shots, and yes they are difficult, however you can learn the shots and then none of what you say above holds true. Whether you find it fun or not is a different story.

    Also, I like Ghostbusters too and never understood the hate for it.

    #130 1 year ago

    Been said on here already but I have to agree that the addition of monotargets to any design is the worst decision that can be made for a pinball machine.

    #131 1 year ago
    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    At this point most modern games have been mentioned in one way or another, so I'll go with something a bit older:
    Gladiators is up there with all time worst playfield designs.
    I really like the idea of the shots on the playfield. But anyone who has played one eventually realizes the physical exploit. Hold the upper left flipper up, and endlessly shoot the upper u turn with the upper right flipper. Very easy shot. It will always safely come back to the upper right flipper while holding up the left flipper.
    Literally breaks the game and ruins an otherwise very imaginative layout.

    I view that as more of a coding issue.

    Just make it so that the 'L' shot only rewards points once in a row. Essentially, make it pointless to continually spam the 'L' shot and the game is fixed. Sure you could make the shot, over and over again, but it's just as valuable as keeping the ball cradled.

    In fact, most modes are setup in a way that it is not worth continually hitting that 'L' shot. It's really the mode, Calm Before The Storm, that really breaks the game.

    The playfield itself is really fun and satisfying to shoot. Imo, it's a well designed game, with a code exploit. Similar to games like Johnny Mnemonic.

    #132 1 year ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Admitted by Stern themselves that it was a mistake. The name of this thread is worst playfield design. I think the playfield that was made with a huge error as admitted by the manufacturer and needs tons of work to make somewhat playable would be a good candidate whether you like the game or not.

    Jesus I can never get a straight story on this one. Last time it was "factory shipped the flippers to low hanging which casued the extra gap issue."
    Anyway, I never thought that was the games biggest issue.

    #133 1 year ago
    Quoted from Deez:

    I love seeing all the different opinions here. The hate for Ghostbusters is surprising to me. I love how difficult it is and that flipper gap is amazing. I also love the unconventional layout on Halloween. Seems like most mediocre players on here just want easy layouts with wide repeatable shots. I personally hate that is the games last forever. Give me a brick fest to keep me dialed in.

    I really don't find the Halloween layout to be THAT unconventional. It's not *terribly* different from a fan layout, but it has the extra benefit of the Hedge shots up the left and all the craziness with the multi-level playfields. I'm enjoying it way more than I expected to.

    #134 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Jesus I can never get a straight story on this one. Last time it was "factory shipped the flippers to low hanging which casued the extra gap issue."
    Anyway, I never thought that was the games biggest issue.

    Yeah.. there is a big difference between releasing guides to adjust things / providing a new part to customers, and actually admitting that a product has a specific design flaw.

    Only thing to happen with these flippers is something actually different to the default italian bottom stern template... Nope.. people complained so back to the usual.

    #135 1 year ago
    Quoted from vikingerik:

    Nobody mentioned the entire playfield on Houdini yet? Every single shot is both impossibly narrow and at a weird off-kilter angle somehow.

    It’s a modern hidden gem!

    #136 1 year ago
    Quoted from koji:

    Only thing to happen with these flippers is something actually different to the default italian bottom stern template... Nope.. people complained so back to the usual.

    There is a lot more subtle variations in the Italian bottom than people realize if you start overlaying playfield layouts on top of one another. Like I've noticed Elwin sets his slingshots much further to the side than most other designers.

    Here is an example of Godzilla overlain on Led Zeppelin

    unknown (resized).pngunknown (resized).png
    #137 1 year ago
    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    There is a lot more subtle variations in the Italian bottom than people realize if you start overlaying playfield layouts on top of one another. Like I've noticed Elwin sets his slingshots much further to the side than most other designers.
    Here is an example of Godzilla overlain on Led Zeppelin[quoted image]

    That's pretty fascinating! Where did you find those layout graphics?

    #138 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    That's pretty fascinating! Where did you find those layout graphics?

    those are in the manuals. led charts i believe

    #139 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    That's pretty fascinating! Where did you find those layout graphics?

    Just download the Stern manuals, load up photoshop, put the layouts on top of each other on separate layers, and tweak the opacity for the layer.

    #140 1 year ago

    Big Hurt pinball.

    The art design of the playfield. The playfield art is too dark because it is depicting a night time baseball game, like that's a big deal. Game play is terrific, but the playfield needs to be bright and depicting a daytime game being played.

    #141 1 year ago
    Quoted from TreyBo69:

    Just download the Stern manuals, load up photoshop, put the layouts on top of each other on separate layers, and tweak the opacity for the layer.

    This would be a really cool app to be able to switch out and compare all different playfields!

    #142 1 year ago
    Quoted from vikingerik:

    Nobody mentioned the entire playfield on Houdini yet? Every single shot is both impossibly narrow and at a weird off-kilter angle somehow.

    Worst playfield decision twofer: no whitewood created as part of design and should have been a widebody game!

    #143 1 year ago

    AC/DC pro having all standups. I think this was mentioned but makes it the only stern Pro that can’t hold its own to premium after 500 plays.

    Or was it brilliant and why they sold so many Premiums

    #144 1 year ago
    Quoted from Jokerman:

    Re your list.
    Flipper Gap - never bothered me. It is what it is. You can play the machine to minimise those risks, or put carrots on. Maybe.

    Only game I ever had a problem with the flipper gap was on a 60s GTB Crosstown, you could drive a truck thru it. I was just beyond what I could stomach but tons of folks still love that game. I think everyone has their own limit depending on what you are used to playing.

    #145 1 year ago
    Quoted from koji:

    Seems like a lot of owners have the PF level metal protector. This is the problem.. I have played one where it was adjusted and the metal protector removed and it plays great. Such a key shot, so for sure when it isn't working, it's one of the most frustrating experiences.

    Exactly. I removed that darn protector on mine and the shot instantly went from infuriating to enjoyable

    #146 1 year ago
    Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

    Worst playfield decision twofer: no whitewood created as part of design and should have been a widebody game!

    Naah - it wouldn't have been fun as a widebody. The shots can take some getting used to, but it's like any other game - spend some time dialing in the shots and you can nail them

    #147 1 year ago
    Quoted from Medisinyl:

    Pressing both flippers allows you to fight the prison zombie there and control the magnet (similar to Battling the Power on TZ)...properly timed flips can get one or two hits on the zombie with the magnet and stop a SDTM throw...sit idle, and the zombie can attack you with the SDTM attempt.
    It's a good feature IMO, not a flaw.

    I just tested this for an hour and have determined it to be false. The only thing the flippers do is release the ball early. It pulses the magnet after release without regard to flipper input. It will basically clear the animation and release the ball early.

    #148 1 year ago
    Quoted from Deez:

    I just tested this for an hour and have determined it to be false. The only thing the flippers do is release the ball early. It pulses the magnet after release without regard to flipper input. It will basically clear the animation and release the ball early.

    LOL.. He got you.

    #149 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    Naah - it wouldn't have been fun as a widebody. The shots can take some getting used to, but it's like any other game - spend some time dialing in the shots and you can nail them

    I owned a Houdini, played it a bunch, and enjoyed it overall actually. It still would have been more fun as a widebody though.

    American Pinball developed the game and brought it to market amazingly fast. Too fast I think in retrospect. Ideally, they should have analyzed and refined the layout and shots more.

    #150 1 year ago
    Quoted from Deez:

    I just tested this for an hour and have determined it to be false. The only thing the flippers do is release the ball early. It pulses the magnet after release without regard to flipper input. It will basically clear the animation and release the ball early.

    Works consistently on my game, and seems confirmed by another above, so there must be some way to set it up for it to happen if not working (someone noted that perhaps the magnet is in a different orientation).

    If you spent an hour, I imagine it isn't inaccurate timing on yours if you never got it to work, but as noted, it's nearly a 100% success on mine when timed on the count of 3 with 1 and 2 being the first two crowbar hits during the Borg scene (equal time between 2 and 3 as 1 and 2 [too early, and it will often drop as you say on mine]). Can get up to two strong hits on the zombie, enough to trigger the switch.

    It's a fun feature, so it would be a shame if it's not working more universally in the same fashion for others.

    Could find time to take a video if interested.

    There are 252 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 6.

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