(Topic ID: 321818)

Worst playfield design decision in modern pinball?

By westofrome

1 year ago


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    There are 252 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 6.
    #51 1 year ago
    Quoted from javagrind888:

    Individual shot:
    -Mandalorian, that every shot is easier to backhand than to forward shoot is so very odd.
    Mech design:
    -That Elvira HoH gives every opportunity to plow the ball straight into the house ramp diverter, damaging the metal flap and nicking the ball.

    I agree completely about the Mandolorian (much easier to backhand shots). Why?

    Also, let's not forget on Elvira HOH, if you do not have enough momentum to get your shot to the diverter (on the house ramp) it is draining back at you, SDTM.

    #52 1 year ago
    Quoted from gliebig:

    I have zero airballs and never have had a ball jump a lane guide. Never happens. Flipper gap is what it is. Doesn't bother me.

    Well I guess you should buy a lotto ticket because these are extremely well documented problems with the game and somehow you've beaten the odds and literal physics. Thats why they even make mods to fix that problem.

    #53 1 year ago

    I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Rush, and the scoop that didn't have side protectors in the initial product run.

    A powerful flipper on the right side BAM into the side of the unprotected scoop hole was a guaranteed problem. It's really surprising they didn't catch this earlier in the design cycle.

    I agree that the X-Men Wolverine was bad design.

    I would also agree with others that Houdini's extremely narrow ramp entrances making the game extremely hard, even for the best of players, is a design decision that they won't make again.

    -15
    #54 1 year ago

    Clearly it is Fish Tales for me .. could have been great a Great game , I could have been a
    Spinners Club member ! Wonderful Toys , Cross Loops and Fishing Rod and Reel .. when the ball isn’t always draining straight down the middle , you can try an impossible shot to the extra ball or the casting reel .. no luck there either . A masterpiece that got too greedy ! By far I have always had the shortest ball times of anything I have played since early EM Games

    #55 1 year ago

    Family Guy mini pinball. It’s just a very boring pinball game.

    #56 1 year ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Well I guess you should buy a lotto ticket because these are extremely well documented problems with the game and somehow you've beaten the odds and literal physics. Thats why they even make mods to fix that problem.

    elmo-shrug.gifelmo-shrug.gif
    #57 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRetail:

    I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Rush, and the scoop that didn't have side protectors in the initial product run.

    I see what you are saying. However, I think the design was solid but the decision for Stern to contract with a cheaper scoop supplier bit them in the ass in the long run. Live and learn.

    #58 1 year ago

    Alice Cooper left ramp is a rattle-fest awfulness. There's a balance between a hard shot (left ramp on Godzilla) and a shot that just is all over the place like ACNC's left ramp. From a trap, almost impossible. Full roll off the inlane is a nightmare too. Actually can I just vote for all the shots on ACNC?

    #59 1 year ago
    Quoted from Richthofen:

    Alice Cooper left ramp is a rattle-fest awfulness. There's a balance between a hard shot (left ramp on Godzilla) and a shot that just is all over the place like ACNC's left ramp. From a trap, almost impossible. Full roll off the inlane is a nightmare too. Actually can I just vote for all the shots on ACNC?

    The secret passage shot isn't too bad.

    #60 1 year ago
    Quoted from Boxedbeef:

    Clearly it is Fish Tales for me .. could have been great a Great game , I could have been a
    Spinners Club member ! Wonderful Toys , Cross Loops and Fishing Rod and Reel .. when the ball isn’t always draining straight down the middle , you can try an impossible shot to the extra ball or the casting reel .. no luck there either . A masterpiece that got too greedy ! By far I have always had the shortest ball times of anything I have played since early EM Games

    Extra ball shot is fairly easy using a backhand

    #61 1 year ago

    None so far, all my machines (only ones I have really played) are all unique and I dont have a single criticism except for that damn Alien facehugger shot.

    #62 1 year ago

    the deadend shot on Rush pro is one of the most boring, repetitive things in modern pinball

    #63 1 year ago

    Led Zeppelin just boring to me as wide open and nothing to do. Runner up and I know you all have started to like Stranger Things but bored as well and very dark to see playfield.

    #64 1 year ago

    i think stranger things has great flow (i'm biased)

    #65 1 year ago

    I had a Ghostbusters and I didn't have near as many issues as a lot of people seemed to have, but I have to agree that the right side spiral ramp is basically unmakable out of the box. Also, the Black Widow ramp on Avengers was terrible as designed.

    #66 1 year ago

    I think the stand up targets that are one big plate instead of smaller individual ones are a poor design. I understand it saves money and reinforces to me a poor design.

    BTW, I consider Houdini to be one of my favorite pins...

    -8
    #67 1 year ago
    Quoted from Oneangrymo:

    None so far, all my machines (only ones I have really played) are all unique and I dont have a single criticism except for that damn Alien facehugger shot.

    Don't you own Halloween or Ultraman?

    You can hit the Right orbit and the shot to the Right of that? The drop that is sometimes a ball lock?

    What about the Left bottom scoop? Those shots suck!

    #68 1 year ago
    Quoted from SonOfaDiddly:

    i think stranger things has great flow (i'm biased)

    Love stranger things but if you don't make the TK lock you better bump that rejection while its headed back at u.. or SDTM.

    #69 1 year ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Ghostbusters apologists are insane. Yes, what a masterpiece, with its grand canyon flipper gap (that is an admitted screw up by stern), right corkscrew ramp thats horrific to try and make, magnaslings that shoot the balls directly into the outlanes, poorly designed lane guides that allow the ball to just fling right over the top of them. Airballs all over the freakin place that will launch from the back of the game all the way over the top of the flippers. Drop targets that you are forced to hit when they pop out of the playfield and rocket your ball directly down the middle. Great design guys. Look its one thing to say you like the game, but theres no way to objectively say its a good design. It isn't. Enjoy your trash but don't lie about it. Maybe the pro is better, never played it, zero desire to either and obviously the pro would only fix a handful of the issues. When there has to be mods created to try and fix the poor playfield, you know the design is bad.
    Oh and before you say GeT GoOd, I have been through every mode in the game including are you a god, was GC for months and months on the local one, ect. I play the game just fine. Its a bad game.

    Re your list.

    Flipper Gap - never bothered me. It is what it is. You can play the machine to minimise those risks, or put carrots on.
    Right corkscrew - yep, needs the hex post adjust.
    Lane guides - yep, ball can jump but not a serial problem and is reparable.
    Magnaslings into the outlanes - nope, never been a problem. Sometimes SDTM but with decent time on the machine you know when they are likely to power up or not
    Airballs - again not a serial problem with that and never seen a launch from the back of the game over the flippers in my 6 years of ownership
    Drop targets - do not hit them square on as SDTM can happen, or disable them in the service menu if you struggle with being able to do that and they bother you.

    Insane? IDK. Maybe.

    #70 1 year ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Ghostbusters apologists are insane. Yes, what a masterpiece, with its grand canyon flipper gap (that is an admitted screw up by stern), right corkscrew ramp thats horrific to try and make, magnaslings that shoot the balls directly into the outlanes, poorly designed lane guides that allow the ball to just fling right over the top of them. Airballs all over the freakin place that will launch from the back of the game all the way over the top of the flippers. Drop targets that you are forced to hit when they pop out of the playfield and rocket your ball directly down the middle. Great design guys. Look its one thing to say you like the game, but theres no way to objectively say its a good design. It isn't. Enjoy your trash but don't lie about it. Maybe the pro is better, never played it, zero desire to either and obviously the pro would only fix a handful of the issues. When there has to be mods created to try and fix the poor playfield, you know the design is bad.
    Oh and before you say GeT GoOd, I have been through every mode in the game including are you a god, was GC for months and months on the local one, ect. I play the game just fine. Its a bad game.

    I'll give you that the air ball issue should have been detected and corrected prior to manufacturing, but it can be corrected with a couple of adjustments. I can make the corkscrew ramp quite easily, and I love the big flipper gap. Makes it more challenging.

    Get good.

    #71 1 year ago

    Rounded metal for out/inlanes on GB are pretty bad, but the worst for me is easily the Sim Card shot on DI.

    Quoted from turbo2nr:

    Don't you own Halloween or Ultraman?
    You can hit the Right orbit and the shot to the Right of that? The drop that is sometimes a ball lock?

    Right Orbit is VERY tough in that game. The drop lock shot isn't hard at all; left flipper catch to skill shot lock happens quite often.

    #72 1 year ago
    Quoted from DudeRegular:

    I-N-T-E-R-N-A-T-I-O-N-A-L R-E-S-C-U-E

    What is this in reference to? Is it something to do with Rob Zombie?

    ACNC would have been incredible if they would have just taken out the hurry up target and coded a shot to the scoop as the hurry up award. Then they could have used that space to widen every other shot on the playfield. So close to greatness.

    #73 1 year ago
    Quoted from Alamo_Pin:

    What is this in reference to? Is it something to do with Rob Zombie?

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    #74 1 year ago

    ^^^ that's the worst right there.

    #75 1 year ago
    Quoted from Alamo_Pin:

    What is this in reference to? Is it something to do with Rob Zombie?
    ACNC would have been incredible if they would have just taken out the hurry up target and coded a shot to the scoop as the hurry up award. Then they could have used that space to widen every other shot on the playfield. So close to greatness.

    Or only use 2 targets for change monster instead of 3..but I do still enjoy my Alice Cooper

    #76 1 year ago

    Weird to read all the comments with regard to SDTM after not making it up a ramp.. As far as I'm concerned this is a staple of good pinball design, assuming the flipper power is in good order, and the ball is not getting caught up etc.

    This is even articulated somewhat in many classics examples.. to mind atm, EATPM (.. "oh yeah.. OH noooo").. or Demolition man.. "Oh Sh!t, no!".. lol. 100% the SDTM risk is intentional, and not a poor design.

    Most comments might also be just adjustment issues. I've played TWD where the magnet drops it SDTM.. it sucks for sure.. but I know it's an adjustment, as I've played them where it does not behave this way. Exact same scenario with MET / Sparky.

    #78 1 year ago

    Too many ramps and orbit shots. I am anti-flow. I like games with a lot of ricocheting ball action. I like to have scoring to be partially based on the random movement of the ball as it returns to the player..not just shoot ramp, then shoot orbit, then shoot ramp...etc. A little more balance in game play between when the ball is coming to the player and away from the player is my request.

    #79 1 year ago

    Using screws with round heads on BOTH inverted ramp entrances of Stern JP. Get Cliffy carbon fiber entrances on them ASAP.

    I cannot begin to emphasize the near 1 to 1 ratio of the ball not making it up the left inverted ramp resulting in a drain to the right outline. I almost thought there were magnets pulling the ball to the right outline it happened with such consistent frequency.....

    #80 1 year ago

    I don't think WWE is well-loved -- is that design, rules or both?

    #81 1 year ago
    Quoted from dr_nybble:

    I don't think WWE is well-loved -- is that design, rules or both?

    Rules. The layout is decent and the upper playfield is a pretty fun gimmick, but code got this game. This review from an owner pretty much sums up the rules problems. Also in local events, everyone uses the same character to maximize points, so there's no variation on character choice.

    "The music and call-outs were better than I expected, however the lack of code updates destroyed this machine. Actual progression seems pointless, and it seems most of it happens in a confusing manner. It's almost like the rule sheets don't match up with what is going on the playfield. I know how to start matches, and how the rules say they're supposed to progress, but at times it's almost like things happen without any reason as to why. You could just be wrestling a match, then all of a sudden it turns into a tag team or championship belt match. Who knows. I know the theme isn't for everyone, no gripes with that, but it's a shame that Stern didn't give at least one more code update on it. A little extra attention could have went a long way on this title. Still glad to have given it a home in my collection for the time it was here."

    #82 1 year ago
    Quoted from LesManley:

    I had a Ghostbusters and I didn't have near as many issues as a lot of people seemed to have, but I have to agree that the right side spiral ramp is basically unhittable out of the box. Also, the Black Widow ramp on Avengers was terrible as designed.

    I had Avengers for years and it took me hours of work before I could finally dialed the black widow ramp so it could be smooth as butter. The fact that it was also where the Hulk lifting bridge was did not help at all. But I have to agree with you, right out of the box it was a nightmare.

    Ghostbusters seems to be the same but the first time I saw that ramp I thought to myself : okay maybe since the ball comes from above and stick on the ramp the gravity will allow it to be smoother versus climbing it like the black widow ramp. From what I hearing it doesn’t seems to be the case.

    Looks like Gomez finally figured it out with DeadPool : the ramp needs to be stable and further so the ball can take momentum because I had a blast doing that shot every time I played DeadPool. Better late than never lol

    #83 1 year ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    Ghostbusters is one of Stern's best. Just short of a masterpiece.

    That game is an absolute pile of dogshit. People buy it and love it only because of the theme. Most people figure out that they even screwed that part up... some never see it. It's the modern BTTF pinball.

    #84 1 year ago

    R&M side orbit garage shot some machines worse than others but on my machine the side orbit was like a 5% chance. I actually got rid of the pin because of that shot.

    #85 1 year ago
    Quoted from rai:

    R&M side orbit garage shot some machines worse than others but on my machine the side orbit was like a 5% chance. I actually got rid of the pin because of that shot.

    Sounds exactly like the Dialed In scoop shot. Game flowed like butter except for that one stupid shot.

    #86 1 year ago
    Quoted from smokinhos:

    Love stranger things but if you don't make the TK lock you better bump that rejection while its headed back at u.. or SDTM.

    a tweak to the coil stop on the TK lock mech puts a stop to that

    #87 1 year ago

    Maybe not the worst, but cutting an entire ramp from a game to keep the BOM low on a Pro really chaps me. I get that the Marvel ramp on AIQ is pricey, but wish it was more than just a horseshoe shot on the Pro.

    #88 1 year ago
    Quoted from rai:

    R&M side orbit garage shot some machines worse than others but on my machine the side orbit was like a 5% chance. I actually got rid of the pin because of that shot.

    This shot especially out of the factory was just not good as they either cheaped out on the length of the rail making it purposely too short or the people assembling just didn't understand how it should be shaped. It did require tinkering to reshape the path so the rail actually followed the art and the ball actually smoothly traveled it. And for whatever reason, they never appeared to make an attempt to correct this in later games after it was widely talked about. Once you got it dialed in, the game is much less annoying. (along with the right garage shot as well)

    #89 1 year ago
    Quoted from javagrind888:

    Sounds exactly like the Dialed In scoop shot. Game flowed like butter except for that one stupid shot.

    I was going to say about DI it’s about as bad however you can slam the ball around and it can ricochet in.

    Also on DI to me it almost adds to the excitement when you can make it or agony when you can’t make it.

    Especially when the SIM is not going to carry over to the next ball. I can’t explain but on RnM it was more frustrating than DI for me, maybe it was that SIM when lit doesn’t time out do you can work around and get a few nice wacks at it or start a MB and just spam the area, but on R&M often you want to hit the shot and not fumble around for 10 tries.

    #90 1 year ago

    WWE Pro's lack of controlled upper gates. Had they made the game so shots didn't always go into the ring it would have been a lot more fun.
    Star Wars standup targets by the LCD. What a waste those are.

    #91 1 year ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    The Hobbit's third flipper makes this one look like a masterpiece.

    So strange. Love the game while I've only had it a couple of months....I am such a goof I still use it because I just want to. I'm like let's shoot the drop targets by smaug! Lol. Or if a beast is popped up in top right I may just take a close crack at them. But yeah just didn't need it.

    #92 1 year ago
    Quoted from javagrind888:

    Sounds exactly like the Dialed In scoop shot. Game flowed like butter except for that one stupid shot.

    Seems like a lot of owners have the PF level metal protector. This is the problem.. I have played one where it was adjusted and the metal protector removed and it plays great. Such a key shot, so for sure when it isn't working, it's one of the most frustrating experiences.

    #93 1 year ago
    Quoted from cait001:

    Star Wars standup targets by the LCD. What a waste those are.

    Arguably the most important targets in game since they increase/maintain your multiplier. Doesn't seem like a waste to me.

    14
    #94 1 year ago

    Man, I love Ghostbusters... apparently I'm an idiot.

    #95 1 year ago
    Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

    There are several pins with poorly designed ramps where if the ball doesn't go quite all the way up the ramp it is an auto drain, and certain games where if a shot is rejected it is an automatic SDTM when it shouldn't be.
    For example, STTNG is my favorite game, and the longest in my collection. if you just miss the Neutral Zone shot, the ball will fall down, catch the tail of one of the ramps, and go SDTM every time.

    I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

    If you fail a shot, I don't think it is bad thing if the game punishes you for that.

    #96 1 year ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    That game is an absolute pile of dogshit. People buy it and love it only because of the theme. Most people figure out that they even screwed that part up... some never see it. It's the modern BTTF pinball.

    Sounds like the Pro and Prem are different playing games.

    Have a GBPro and the only bitch I have about it is the point blank drop targets. They are a bitch to get down without draining so you have to take your shots with great care.

    No different than the Firepower I had here for several weeks frankly. Use the wrong flipper to take out one of the six standups and you ARE GOING TO DRAIN no questions asked. So why the hate for one but not the other?

    Flipper gap.. please! Have you seen the flipper gap on some 60's EMs? GB is a walk in the park in comparison.

    #97 1 year ago

    On this note...especially the SDTM complaints, knowing that back in the day the idea was to limit play time, would you say todays games are tougher in that aspect, or different aspects are tougher? I know rules are deeper, and that much of the consumer base has moved from arcade to home use.

    #98 1 year ago

    Not a playfield issue per se, but what's with the the horrible ratcheting sound when the drop targets reset on Hobbit?

    #99 1 year ago
    Quoted from javagrind888:

    Sounds exactly like the Dialed In scoop shot. Game flowed like butter except for that one stupid shot.

    My friend was over he’s a novice player, we were playing DI he’d make the SIM shot and get all excited and say I hit the SIM shot. But too bad I told him it’s not lit for anything so it doesn’t matter for anything. It almost seems to go in more often when you’re not trying.

    #100 1 year ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    That game is an absolute pile of dogshit. People buy it and love it only because of the theme. Most people figure out that they even screwed that part up... some never see it. It's the modern BTTF pinball.

    Genuinely not sure you can generalize on most people’s views (and I could well be wrong here), but appreciate and respect your right to opinion.

    There are 252 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 6.

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