(Topic ID: 321818)

Worst playfield design decision in modern pinball?

By westofrome

26 days ago


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  • 251 posts
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  • Latest reply 9 days ago by DropGems
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    There are 251 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 6.
    #1 26 days ago

    What design decision makes you shake your head?

    Mine is the magnet in front of the barn on Walking Dead. On most games I've played it drops the ball SDTM and only a vigorous shake might save it. That this happens without a multiball start/ball save is a coding decision, but the magnet itself is a real head-shaker as designed. Why punish a player for a successful shot?

    -10
    #2 26 days ago

    Ghostbusters. Everything about it is awful.

    28
    #3 26 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Ghostbusters. Everything about it is awful.

    Absolutely love GB. Permanent spot in the collection.

    50
    #4 26 days ago

    I-N-T-E-R-N-A-T-I-O-N-A-L R-E-S-C-U-E

    #5 26 days ago

    There are several pins with poorly designed ramps where if the ball doesn't go quite all the way up the ramp it is an auto drain, and certain games where if a shot is rejected it is an automatic SDTM when it shouldn't be.

    For example, STTNG is my favorite game, and the longest in my collection. if you just miss the Neutral Zone shot, the ball will fall down, catch the tail of one of the ramps, and go SDTM every time.

    32
    #6 26 days ago

    I'll say it...

    Toy Story 4. Nothing about it is fun.

    11
    #7 26 days ago

    Some plunges are questionable. GNR just dribbles out, I just don’t like it.
    But Star Wars plunges, well the auto plunges. Just gross.

    #8 26 days ago

    In with a I love your avatar post. Just discovered Big Star and that album is fantastic.

    28
    #9 26 days ago
    Quoted from westofrome:

    What design decision makes you shake your head?
    Mine is the magnet in front of the barn on Walking Dead. On most games I've played it drops the ball SDTM and only a vigorous shake might save it. That this happens without a multiball start/ball save is a coding decision, but the magnet itself is a real head-shaker as designed. Why punish a player for a successful shot?

    Pressing both flippers allows you to fight the prison zombie there and control the magnet (similar to Battling the Power on TZ)...properly timed flips can get one or two hits on the zombie with the magnet and stop a SDTM throw...sit idle, and the zombie can attack you with the SDTM attempt.

    It's a good feature IMO, not a flaw.

    #10 26 days ago
    Quoted from Medisinyl:

    Perhaps you're not aware, but pressing both flippers allows you to fight the prison zombie there and control the magnet (similar to Battling the Power on TZ)...properly timed flips can get one or two hits on the zombie with the magnet and stop a SDTM throw...sit idle, and the zombie can attack you with the SDTM attempt.
    It's a good feature IMO, not a flaw.

    I've owned TWD for many years and have never heard of this....thanks for the headsup.

    #11 26 days ago
    Quoted from Taygeta:

    I've owned TWD for many years and have never heard of this....thanks for the headsup.

    Heh, me neither - why on earth isn't this called out on the screen? That's a coding issue, I suppose. Looking forward to trying it.

    #12 26 days ago

    It's not the worst, but the third flipper to right ramp shot in Godzilla is a frequent reminder of a shot that wasn't meant to be.

    #13 26 days ago
    Quoted from Medisinyl:

    Pressing both flippers allows you to fight the prison zombie there and control the magnet (similar to Battling the Power on TZ)...properly timed flips can get one or two hits on the zombie with the magnet and stop a SDTM throw...sit idle, and the zombie can attack you with the SDTM attempt.
    It's a good feature IMO, not a flaw.

    Put me down on the list of people who didn’t know this either.
    Sounds awesome though and I’m gonna try it first chance I get.

    #14 26 days ago
    Quoted from Coindork:

    Put me down on the list of people who didn’t know this either.
    Sounds awesome though and I’m gonna try it first chance I get.

    Just talked to a top 200 player who regularly competes on WD and didn't know this.

    #15 26 days ago

    Individual shot: The Colossus shot on Deadpool that just clunks right back out if you hit it dead on is pretty bad.

    Whole design:
    -Every shot on Alice Cooper is so extremely tight it's not fun for most people, they could have just taken a single shot out and widened the rest to make it more fun and not such a brick fest.
    -Mandalorian, that every shot is easier to backhand than to forward shoot is so very odd.

    Mech design:
    -That Elvira HoH gives every opportunity to plow the ball straight into the house ramp diverter, damaging the metal flap and nicking the ball.
    -Halloween servos to the inlanes that you can't see.

    #16 26 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Ghostbusters. Everything about it is awful.

    Ghostbusters is one of Stern's best. Just short of a masterpiece.

    23
    #17 26 days ago

    Playfield support pegs on Stern pro games. Thankfully that was addressed.

    Rob

    #18 26 days ago
    Quoted from westofrome:

    Just talked to a top 200 player who regularly competes on WD and didn't know this.

    I don't think it is necessarily coded into the game. When the SDTM from the magnet conversation comes up there are a few people that believe hitting the flippers changes how the magnet reacts and moves the ball in different directions. People have also said rotating the magnet changes the direction the ball will be thrown to eliminate the SDTM. When I owned the game I tried them all and sometimes it would work and sometimes it wouldn't. I really liked the game, but there were 2 or 3 things that frustrated me so much (3 drop targets on the left that wouldn't always go down when hit) I had to get rid of it before I took a sledge hammer to it.

    #19 26 days ago

    Nobody mentioned the entire playfield on Houdini yet? Every single shot is both impossibly narrow and at a weird off-kilter angle somehow.

    #20 26 days ago
    Quoted from vikingerik:

    Nobody mentioned the entire playfield on Houdini yet? Every single shot is both impossibly narrow and at a weird off-kilter angle somehow.

    I thought about it, but Alice Cooper has the same problem and is much worse at it.

    #21 26 days ago
    Quoted from Monk:

    I don't think it is necessarily coded into the game. When the SDTM from the magnet conversation comes up there are a few people that believe hitting the flippers changes how the magnet reacts and moves the ball in different directions. People have also said rotating the magnet changes the direction the ball will be thrown to eliminate the SDTM. When I owned the game I tried them all and sometimes it would work and sometimes it wouldn't. I really liked the game, but there were 2 or 3 things that frustrated me so much (3 drop targets on the left that wouldn't always go down when hit) I had to get rid of it before I took a sledge hammer to it.

    My usual approach is a well-timed hard nudge (plus cursing John Borg) but I'll try the flippers too!

    #22 26 days ago

    Worst? the 2-3 tier model.

    #23 26 days ago
    Quoted from Ribs:

    It's not the worst, but the third flipper to right ramp shot in Godzilla is a frequent reminder of a shot that wasn't meant to be.

    I get so mad at myself when I flip for an orbit but I flip too early, the ball goes halfway up the right ramp, and right down the middle. F&^K!!!!

    I do something similar the Jurassic park. Upper flipper right to the damn out lane. Looking at the audits that outlane is more of a monster than TREX.

    #24 26 days ago

    Lyman added a pulse to the magnet at a certain time if you double flip during the scene when the borg lookalike zombie is hit with the crow bar. It is not our imagination, its definately coded to prevent the SDTM if you don't do anything.

    Quoted from Monk:

    I don't think it is necessarily coded into the game. When the SDTM from the magnet conversation comes up there are a few people that believe hitting the flippers changes how the magnet reacts and moves the ball in different directions. People have also said rotating the magnet changes the direction the ball will be thrown to eliminate the SDTM. When I owned the game I tried them all and sometimes it would work and sometimes it wouldn't. I really liked the game, but there were 2 or 3 things that frustrated me so much (3 drop targets on the left that wouldn't always go down when hit) I had to get rid of it before I took a sledge hammer to it.

    #25 26 days ago

    The other bad design decisions that come to mind are those that require a ball save to be coded in to compensate for it (Gene's head on KISS, autoplunge on Star Wars, etc).

    12
    #26 26 days ago
    Quoted from Ribs:

    It's not the worst, but the third flipper to right ramp shot in Godzilla is a frequent reminder of a shot that wasn't meant to be.

    The Hobbit's third flipper makes this one look like a masterpiece.

    #27 26 days ago

    Everything associated with the GWJ pin

    24
    #28 26 days ago

    Games that have a pop cluster, only to feed reliably to an orbit/single exit. Pop clusters SHOULD cause randomness

    #29 26 days ago

    Halloween. Shots are clunky. Street Fighter 2 has better stop and go play.

    No wonder the designer isn't credited.

    #30 26 days ago
    Quoted from Monk:

    I don't think it is necessarily coded into the game. When the SDTM from the magnet conversation comes up there are a few people that believe hitting the flippers changes how the magnet reacts and moves the ball in different directions. People have also said rotating the magnet changes the direction the ball will be thrown to eliminate the SDTM. When I owned the game I tried them all and sometimes it would work and sometimes it wouldn't. I really liked the game, but there were 2 or 3 things that frustrated me so much (3 drop targets on the left that wouldn't always go down when hit) I had to get rid of it before I took a sledge hammer to it.

    FWIW, on my game, it's nearly a 100% success (to shoot the zombie) on the crowbar/Borg scene IF timed after the second crowbar strike, with a delay of the same time between the 1st and 2nd strike (as if making a phantom 3rd strike with the timing cue given from the first two). And a poorly timed flip can cause it to drop SDTM instead as well.

    If lucky on the return, a second strike can be made, or at times this will wrap it around to make the Riot shot.

    Makes sense other games may be a bit different, and tournament games often have the magnet off, but I've experienced it on more than just mine, so perhaps skewed personal results to the whole, but the flippers will definitely control the magnet to help against a SDTM, and seem to react differently, in a predictable manner based on timing.

    #31 26 days ago

    I only have played Halloween 10 times but I hated how it throws the ball right to the center. That center motorized ramp in thunderbirds is so bad I had to force myself not to walk away the 3 times I played it.

    #32 26 days ago

    I think your skill level has a big factor on what you consider a bad layout. Some games that have tight shots or designed to be on the harder side are embraced by more skilled players when the majority may tap out and label it a bad layout.

    #33 26 days ago
    Quoted from manadams:

    I think your skill level has a big factor on what you consider a bad layout. Some games that have tight shots or designed to be on the harder side are embraced by more skilled players when the majority may tap out and label it a bad layout.

    Possibly, but when you have 20+ pinball fans at a party and 3/4 of them refuse to play a game, I'd consider it objectively 'not fun' and therefore flawed. This was owning Alice and Mando for me.

    #34 26 days ago

    The Wolverine on X-Men.

    Let's have a custom figured made......but let's have him made in a pose so we have to grind his elbow off so it doesn't catch the ball. Let's also make him out of a softish plastic so his adjustment will slowly change so the user also has to remove him and grind on his elbow more or readjust him constantly. Let's see....there is a ramp that swings over toward him on the LE, so let's make sure we have his other claw pointing straight out so if it's not adjusted right, it will hit the ramp. Now let's position him completely different on the Pro and LE for no apparent reason so the two games shoot different. Of course, that makes little difference, because of the soft plastic mentioned before.....the figure can be positioned differently from game to game and also continually slip out of position to make it so things are never quite right. Now go!

    #35 26 days ago
    Quoted from vikingerik:

    Nobody mentioned the entire playfield on Houdini yet? Every single shot is both impossibly narrow and at a weird off-kilter angle somehow.

    you just suck at pinball then?

    I found that game excellent, and kinda easy.
    My brother beat the game within a few weeks of owning it.
    I came close.

    #36 26 days ago
    Quoted from DugFreez:

    The Wolverine on X-Men.
    Let's have a custom figured made......but let's have him made in a pose so we have to grind his elbow off so it doesn't catch the ball. Let's also make him out of a softish plastic so his adjustment will slowly change so the user also has to remove him and grind on his elbow more or readjust him constantly. Let's see....there is a ramp that swings over toward him on the LE, so let's make sure we have his other claw pointing straight out so if it's not adjusted right, it will hit the ramp. Now let's position him completely different on the Pro and LE for no apparent reason so the two games shoot different. Of course, that makes little difference, because of the soft plastic mentioned before.....the figure can be positioned differently from game to game and also continually slip out of position to make it so things are never quite right. Now go!

    My X-Men came with the Newton ball mod, so I never experienced this. I didn't realize it was so bad!

    #37 26 days ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    Ghostbusters is one of Stern's best. Just short of a masterpiece.

    Quoted from gliebig:

    Absolutely love GB. Permanent spot in the collection.

    Ghostbusters apologists are insane. Yes, what a masterpiece, with its grand canyon flipper gap (that is an admitted screw up by stern), right corkscrew ramp thats horrific to try and make, magnaslings that shoot the balls directly into the outlanes, poorly designed lane guides that allow the ball to just fling right over the top of them. Airballs all over the freakin place that will launch from the back of the game all the way over the top of the flippers. Drop targets that you are forced to hit when they pop out of the playfield and rocket your ball directly down the middle. Great design guys. Look its one thing to say you like the game, but theres no way to objectively say its a good design. It isn't. Enjoy your trash but don't lie about it. Maybe the pro is better, never played it, zero desire to either and obviously the pro would only fix a handful of the issues. When there has to be mods created to try and fix the poor playfield, you know the design is bad.

    Oh and before you say GeT GoOd, I have been through every mode in the game including are you a god, was GC for months and months on the local one, ect. I play the game just fine. Its a bad game.

    12
    #38 26 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Ghostbusters apologists are insane.

    Just because I like the game, I am insane? Well that's settled then....

    What happened to opinions instead of 'it IS like this'. I think you're mistaken your opinion for a fact.

    #39 26 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Ghostbusters apologists are insane. Yes, what a masterpiece, with its grand canyon flipper gap (that is an admitted screw up by stern), right corkscrew ramp thats horrific to try and make, magnaslings that shoot the balls directly into the outlanes, poorly designed lane guides that allow the ball to just fling right over the top of them. Airballs all over the freakin place that will launch from the back of the game all the way over the top of the flippers. Drop targets that you are forced to hit when they pop out of the playfield and rocket your ball directly down the middle. Great design guys. Look its one thing to say you like the game, but theres no way to objectively say its a good design. It isn't. Enjoy your trash but don't lie about it. Maybe the pro is better, never played it, zero desire to either and obviously the pro would only fix a handful of the issues. When there has to be mods created to try and fix the poor playfield, you know the design is bad.
    Oh and before you say GeT GoOd, I have been through every mode in the game including are you a god, was GC for months and months on the local one, ect. I play the game just fine. Its a bad game.

    A well loved GB has most if not all of these issues fixed. I've never played one stock, but out of 11 games it is my most played game when I host a party. Even when I got the new Godzilla there is always a group of people on Ghostbusters (premium).

    12
    #40 26 days ago

    Using stand-ups everywhere instead of drops.

    #41 26 days ago

    Gomez Avengers: The black widow ramp/spinner combination. Not only was the ramp hard to hit, but you got rejected 4/5 times by the spinner. Just an awful design decision that contributed to that being one of Stern's worst titles imo.

    #42 26 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Ghostbusters apologists are insane. Yes, what a masterpiece, with its grand canyon flipper gap (that is an admitted screw up by stern), right corkscrew ramp thats horrific to try and make, magnaslings that shoot the balls directly into the outlanes, poorly designed lane guides that allow the ball to just fling right over the top of them. Airballs all over the freakin place that will launch from the back of the game all the way over the top of the flippers. Drop targets that you are forced to hit when they pop out of the playfield and rocket your ball directly down the middle. Great design guys. Look its one thing to say you like the game, but theres no way to objectively say its a good design. It isn't. Enjoy your trash but don't lie about it. Maybe the pro is better, never played it, zero desire to either and obviously the pro would only fix a handful of the issues. When there has to be mods created to try and fix the poor playfield, you know the design is bad.
    Oh and before you say GeT GoOd, I have been through every mode in the game including are you a god, was GC for months and months on the local one, ect. I play the game just fine. Its a bad game.

    My game has zero of those issues.

    #43 26 days ago

    SF pinball. This deep ramp is almost impossible to hit and the spinning flipper in the middle is so annoying.

    29D6501D-AEB9-4D67-AD11-9CDDD0442059 (resized).jpeg

    #44 26 days ago
    Quoted from sven:

    Just because I like the game, I am insane? Well that's settled then....
    What happened to opinions instead of 'it IS like this'. I think you're mistaken your opinion for a fact.

    No you are more than welcome to like it (although it is insane imo) but to say its not a bad layout is simply false.

    Quoted from javagrind888:

    A well loved GB has most if not all of these issues fixed. I've never played one stock, but out of 11 games it is my most played game when I host a party. Even when I got the new Godzilla there is always a group of people on Ghostbusters (premium).

    Quoted from gliebig:

    My game has zero of those issues.

    Quite literally this is impossible. Your game magically closed the flipper gap, raised and changed the lane guide designs and got rid of stand up target placement that causes airballs? See my point about insanity. As for it being the most played game at parties, I have no doubt thats true. It looks awesome and it says ghostbusters on it. If you had a south park it would get a lot of attention at parties too.

    #45 26 days ago
    Quoted from turbo2nr:

    you just suck at pinball then?

    I've scored a million on the one at the Richmond collective (you're from Richmond) and won my games on it in tournaments, so I can play Houdini. At least it doesn't give many dangerous rebounds, so every time I'm trying to hit the narrow shots is a matter of missing and catching and trying again four or five times.

    #46 26 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    No you are more than welcome to like it (although it is insane imo) but to say its not a bad layout is simply false.

    Quite literally this is impossible. See my point about insanity. As for it being the most played game at parties, I have no doubt. It looks awesome and it says ghostbusters on it. If you had a south park it would get a lot of attention at parties too.

    I do have a South Park. It's my least played after Mando because we're all pinball fans. Once again, your opinion isn't a fact. Subjective vs Objective is something they drill into you in college.

    #47 26 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    No you are more than welcome to like it (although it is insane imo) but to say its not a bad layout is simply false.

    Quite literally this is impossible. Your game magically closed the flipper gap, raised and changed the lane guide designs and got rid of stand up target placement that causes airballs? See my point about insanity. As for it being the most played game at parties, I have no doubt thats true. It looks awesome and it says ghostbusters on it. If you had a south park it would get a lot of attention at parties too.

    I have zero airballs and never have had a ball jump a lane guide. Never happens. Flipper gap is what it is. Doesn't bother me.

    #48 26 days ago
    Quoted from javagrind888:

    I do have a South Park. It's my least played after Mando because we're all pinball fans. Once again, your opinion isn't a fact. Subjective vs Objective is something they drill into you in college.

    Yes, I've touched on subjective vs objective already. Are you purposely missing my point or are you that obtuse?

    #49 26 days ago

    Most GBs in the DMV on location have had carrot flippers.

    #50 26 days ago
    Quoted from javagrind888:

    I thought about it, but Alice Cooper has the same problem and is much worse at it.

    . . . and Rob Zombie is worse than that again.

    There are 251 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 6.

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