You're waaaay too polite!

If you price a pin right and aren't trying to F the buyer you will have a list of people to choose from. Don't even need to pay attention to the dicks. Simple as that.

Cabinet Fade, minor scrapes.

You play pinball on the playfield, not the side of the machine.

Keep trying Kim, maybe one of these days you will get there. Never personal to me.

Yep, several times been asked for a discount because it was going to cost them $200 to put LED's in it. My answer is always, but it didn't come with LED's so that is YOUR choice, your cost.

That is like asking for $500 bucks off of a used vehicle because it has black sidewall tires and you want raised white letters.

i am careful to be really clear about final price before I arrive to pick up a pin, and would not ever show up and try to talk a price down further as long as the game was correctly represented.

But I did give a seller a real scare accidently one time. Agreed to buy a pin for $6500. We had to move the pin down 2 flights of stairs with 2 turns so I brought another mover since the seller lived alone. After it was in my vehicle I handed him the envelope and said "it's all there, count it if you would like, all $3500".

His face turned absolutely white, I'm sure he was thinking I was confused and how the hell was he going to get that game out of my vehicle and back up all those stairs to his game room! I did not realize at first what I had said so it took me several seconds before I said, "oh sorry, I meant $6500"

...... That don't confront me.

That's why I always ask for the money before the pin gets moved. Also, in case they drop it and don't want it after that...

Dealt with this one a few times. !

"I don't mean to insult you, but would you take $900 for that game you have listed for $2400?"

There are plenty of games listed for $2,400 that are only worth $900.

If it was a screaming deal at $2,400 you wouldn't still have it, would you?

If I agree to a price, get there and the machine is completely misrepresented, I speak my issues and just say I am going to pass. If they then want to reopen negotiations, then I may or may not be game. Usually I am pissed off enough that I don't even want to bother.

Had once made a deal on a Bally KISS from pictures only. It was in Ft.Wayne. The guy was very good with his camera angles that I could not see that the front of the cabinet had been kicked in at one point and he had fixed it with bondo and/or wood filler. The coin door frame wasn't even sitting correctly. I get there , see this, and just say sorry, this isn't the machine as you described. His jaw hit the floor and questioned that I was just going to walk away after driving 4 hours. He then asked "what's it worth to you? " I said $500 as I was walking away. He laughed and said not a chance. 3 weeks later he called and asked if I was still interested at $500. I said nope, I offered $500 right then and there.

agree with the posts about "hey I have a 4hr drive to get it, that's 8hrs round trip...yada yada" OKAYYYYYYYYY time is $$ - pay to ship it? whatever.

similarly: "i'll pay your asking price if you deliver it"..... I always take the high road but really feel like saying: "COME ON MAN"

sigh

I may be in the minority, but before a deal is struck I don't think this is a horrible ask in negotiations.

Sometimes you ask "Any chance your coming to X anytime soon, like for a show" Many times I've had people say A) I am but in 2 months. If you pay up front I can bring it with me if willing to wait that long or B)No but my buddy is. Maybe for $100 he might bring it up for you. Also if a game has been up for sale for awhile I may ask would you be willing to come down $300-400? Shipping is making this just out of my price range.

You don't ask, you don't know. I've bought a handful of games after working with the seller and also sold some games doing the same.

By the way - sometimes you guys price your games way too high knowing that there is wiggle room in the price. Others, firm means firm. All good either way. But you never ask, you never get.

Reality check - this is actually a pretty sound reason for not paying a particular price. As soon as MMr was announced MM pricing took a good 4K hit. Prices have already dropped on AFM and MB because of the PPS remake(s). IMO the original will always be the true collectible with a higher value, but it definitely affected the originals prices.

Here is a much lamer reason: There is a better condition version of this same game for sale locally that is $400 less - match their price and I'll buy yours. Response - if it's cheaper and in better condition, you should just buy that one! The funny thing is, they still bought the one I was selling.

Here's another one: Calculating price reductions like a body shop even though it's already priced correctly:
- $3800 STTNG nice 20+ year old game, but not a HEP restore
- sides have some fade, head has some scratches - $300 for stickers + $250 for install (half install price)
- both ramps have at least 1 small crack - $300 for new ramps
- game doesn't have LEDs yet - $200 for leds
- translite has a small scratch in the lower left corner - $200 for new translite
--- Result: $3800 - $1250 = $2550 for a very nice STTNG that you wouldn't even notice the flaws
--- What the buyer is likely intentionally missing is that if all this was already done, the price would have been higher in the first place

CAVEAT - if this STTNG example was priced at $6500 instead of $3800, then this logic would be fair.

It all comes down to if the buyer is trying to knock the price below what is standard for the condition, OR does the seller have a price that is starting too high for the condition.

I once had a potential buyer ask me to reduce price because he got a speeding ticket coming to get the game. The speeding ticket was 50% of the game's price and he wanted me to reduced the price by the amount of the speeding ticket.

He did not get the discount he sought and he still bought the game for the original price.

Marcus

Meh.

There is no "standard for the condition."

In any negotiation for any specific piece of property there is only a buyer and a seller, and if they meet in an agreeable place for funds to change hands for property, then it does. You can point to "standard" all you want but if this claim was anything other than smoke you wouldn't have a machine for sale, you'd have a wad of cash in your hand "on demand" and wouldn't have a machine to sell any more. That you don't is proof that what is claimed as "standard" is in fact no such thing; it is simply an offer, looking for a matching bid.

Sales of single items are almost never ongoing relationships; they're one-time transactional negotiations. If either side loses sight of this fact they're doing *themselves* a disservice.

Here is a real example: Seller has pin for sale on craigslist. His sale has been up for two months. He has an excellent cabinet, nice coin door, door decal, new plastics, new drop targets, new Alltek solenoid driver board, new flipper coils, new flipper buttons, nearly new play field glass (I assume it is tempered glass), and he has a new CPR play field. None of these parts have been installed, so for a top flight pin there is going to be some labor involved. Plus a clear coat for the new CPR play field.

He is asking $1900.00 OBO. As I stated, he has been for sale for 2 months on craigslist. I live 1000 miles away.

It is enough of a machine and parts that I would make the drive for the right price.

I value like this:

CPR play field: $700.00
new plastics: 125.00
new drop tgts: 45.00
new pair of coils 20.00
flipper buttons......10.00
door decal............ 5.00
new PF glass 70.00
alltek board 150.00
--------------------------
sub- total $1125.00

value of pin in current condition

$500.00
-------------------------------
Total: $1625.00

If his ad would have said he was firm on his $1900 price I would not have bothered to make contact. Since he is OBO, I make contact and leave my phone number. He calls.

We talk. He backs off to $1700 and then $1600. Said that is as low as he will go or he will be taking a loss.

I have to consider a 2000 mile round trip and $200.00 worth of gas plus a couple of motel bills. So if I give $1600.00 then I will be the one who is buried in this pin that still needs restored. With transportation costs, I need to be in for around $1300 or $1400. I tell him I will think about it but do not bother to tell him what I would give. 1) He didn't ask what I would give and 2) It is less than he will sell for.

If I was a couple of hours away, then I would already own it for his $1600.00, but 1000 miles and transport costs just kill the deal. And since he has been for sale for two months, I figure $1600.00 is probably a bit generous and a bit over priced for this pin or it would be gone already. But, still, he does have that new CPR play field so I may give him another call.

Now, some of you can take umbrage if you are trying to sell a pin and you get a buyer who is hitting you with hard questions and thoughts on the phone about his costs of transport, but transport is a fact of life. But you might count your self lucky that you own a pin that someone would even bother to call about. And if you paid too much when you bought it, or the market moved against you, that is not my concern.

I had someone try that with a collector car I was selling. I had plenty of room in the garage, so I said that he could take a reading of the mileage to prove I wasn't driving it, and it wouldn't move until it was paid in full, at which time I would sign the title over to him.

He got in his beater and left.

I've had two people off of Craig's list voluntarily knock $100 off an already decent price when they found out how far away I was. Maybe that's something that happens more on CL?

I try not to commit to a price before seeing the game. What I say is that I'm interested in buying it but I would like to see it first. At that point if I like the price for the condition, I buy... Otherwise make an offer. I'm usually willing to negotiate up somewhat from my offer but also willing to walk.

I have never had a bit of drama with a sale. I price fairly (probably too low) and they sell quickly with little fuss. But there were a couple of laughable exceptions:

One time I had a well known flipper try to talk me down on my beautiful restored Whirlwind because he wasn't sure about the unrestored coil brackets!! I had the game priced at 3k with a new CPR playfield, new plastics, etc, etc. I had "Firm" written in the ad. What a douche. I'm glad that I sent him packing with his low balling BS.

One dude was "very concerned" about a wear spot under the apron of another game. WTF? Do people really care about that? You had to pull the apron to see it!! GTFO with that crap.

This action is what leads to the other issue of people driving "X" miles to buy a pin only to find the pin has been sold. You are in "the might buy it when I get there, but I might not" category. When you arrive you find the seller had a local buyer who was a sure thing and you are left with empty miles as the pin is sold out from under you.

This is my favorite. It's not my fault you overpaid. You overpaying doesn't make the game worth more.

I never get upset about someone making offers. Heck? Catch me on the right day and I have practically given things away....What does get ridiculous is when the buyer gets angry or almost pushy.The guys that think they are slick or are going to bully the deal.

"I have to ask my wife" one always cracks me up and I have heard it a lot. You guys that have to ask your wife? Why don't you just send her to make the deal!

I have one listed now, really have no clue what it's worth. I know what I want. And for that item? It's the price I want today it doesn't matter what the buyers issues or costs are. Eventually when I lose interest I may drop to a buyers offer, but for now I look at what it would cost me to replace the item.

I don't get angry when sellers over price their stuff either, It's theirs! I've made lowball offers on stuff I really didn't care if I bought it or not. It's just a game and everyone wants a deal..It's all in fun!

Some of the excuses are funny Though!

I don't have the money...
But I have a fancy chair or boat or car to trade you...

Agree. I have no problem walking away.

Yep.

But the idea of the "market moving against someone" is balderdash. This isn't a stock, where every share is identical to every other and there's a daily auction for hours of every weekday with settlement on defined rules. If you had a "market price" on it you wouldn't own it any more.

Pins are more akin to boats. There's no "market price" for a particular boat either because most were made in quite-limited quantity, nearly ALL were made by hand, and all have seen varied lives. Like a pinball machine.

They are bought and sold every day, but that you got $X for one does not mean that the same make, model and year will sell for $X tomorrow.

It almost-certainly will not.

Had a guy tell me once he was buying a pin for his autistic daughter. Said pinball brought her out of her shell. BUT, because of their medical bills he needed a sizeable discount. I told him to bring her over to play and we would talk. He never showed up.
We all know roughly what a machine is worth. If someone hits me with a fair offer I'll talk. It's the guys that are looking to F me hoping I don't know anything that really get under my skin.

Using your logic, wouldn't the Pinside Marketplace be misnamed? What about Flea Markets? Just because we are not talking about listed securities or pink sheet stuff doesn't mean these is no market for pinball machines, IMO. Actually, I think I could argue that pinball machines are close cousins to the pink sheet stocks--thinly traded with with wide spreads

https://pinside.com/pinball/market?page=12

That's some low sh#t on that guy.

So be it... I'm the local buyer.

I deplore parents who use their children like this. Fair play if they actually had a child and this was the case, but I'm betting they didn't and it was total BS, which is why he never showed and was trying to get you to drop the price. You made the right move and called his bluff.

Also that one where the dude got a speeding ticket and asked to discount the cost of his ticket for the machine? You take a hit because he got caught speeding? In what world does that work? That would be like saying 'Boss I got a speeding fine on the way to work, can you pay it for me because if I didn't have to drive to work, I'd have never have been speeding and then got caught, so really it's your fault!" I think they would laugh you out of the building!

I always ask if they are firm on the price...never hurts. But I don't push the issue and give excuses. I had a guy work on me for an hour because he "had to rent a truck" to come and get the pin. I explained that was his cost, not mine, and if he didn't take the pin, he would be in the same hole for the rental.

Now with that said, the one thing I don't figure into the cost is the travel. I see a lot of folks do, and if I were doing this for a business, then I would probably think differently. But to me the travel is just part of the experience. I get something out of seeing different places....even if it is Ohio! lol Shipping is a different story to me....I figure that into the cost, because I get nothing from it other than the pin delivered to my door. I realize I am in the minority here, but I am always willing to drive a decent distance to pick something up, unless it is a place I really don't want to go......

I sold a Rescue 911 to a gentleman who never owned a pinball. He was pondering over the game before committing and he says.."you know it's set to play for free. I was hoping to use it as a bank to save quarters; can we knock a little off for that?"
I replied "I can do better", flipped off the tournament switch, restarted the game. "Here's your bank". Mechs were in there and worked perfectly.
He was a bit dumbfounded.

Naw, not any more than Yachtworld's kissing cousin "soldboats" is evidence of a "market price" for boats.

Like a boat pins are bespoke when you get down to it, even (in many cases) right out of the box. I happen to own two prototype machines which are certainly not "production run" ones, along with others that *are* production-run machines. I also own both NIB-purchased machines that have never left my possession as well as those that have been in commercial use. But even discounting that they're all individual devices whether it be whether this one was mylar'd and that one wasn't, this one has ghosting issues with inserts, they're hand-assembled (which has its own set of issues) etc, and that's before you account for where it's been and how it's been treated.

The last decade or so has been an amusing time to be a collector of these things. The insanity that has surrounded the so-called "market" for them makes me crack a wry smile were I to ever decide I like the money more than the pins, but it also makes me chuckle on the other side of the table. IMHO its madness and it makes for interesting conversations, but at least for me, far fewer transactions than would otherwise be the case. There's a butt for every seat and capitalism is an interesting phenomena to observe but from where I sit transacting in a machine at several times its original NIB price on the premise of a "market price" instead of at a discount for depreciation since every component in same in fact deteriorates over time (like pretty-much anything else) is much like paying 1000x earnings for a stock; the only reason it transacts there is that some other fool will give you 1001x, and the day he doesn't show up you've got a pile of wood, wire and plastic. It is my sincere hope you enjoy playing it enough to justify your own personal bit of insanity because when (not if) that comes to pass you're gonna be keeping it for a long time.

"The price of these have peaked. I see them being worth (subtract $1000) by next year."

I have about 200 LEDS I keep handy that were pulled out of games for just this situation.

"I only brought x number of dollars with me, so its that or no deal" - said after the price was agreed to on the phone and before the drive out to look at the machine.

I have heard a few times "I don't like the game too much, I am really saving up for X"... seriously?

OK. I see your point(s). For certain, many here seem to be banking on Greater Fool Theory for a bailout and all are hoping to own the next '59 Gibson Les Paul or mid-20th century Selmer saxophone and fear being stuck with the next Avon bottle, Jim Beam bottle, Hummel figurine, or Cabbage Patch Kid or Beanie Baby.

When my friends and I were at VFW last year, there was a T2 for sale. My buddy had cash burning a hole in his pocket and wanted to buy it, we were $100 short of the $1900 asking price so we were trying to find "reasons" to knock the price down. The best we could come up with was a small crack in one of the flipper bats. So we're texting this poor guy at about midnight, trying to talk him down on price based on the condition of this flipper bat. Beer may have been involved in this decision-making process. We still make fun of each other, and laugh about how stupid we were. If you're out there, T2 guy, we're sorry!

I love the one ask my wife, I tell them bring her over and I'll dicker.

Also love the lowball offer, sight un-seen!

If your best offer was $100 short of his ask and he didn't have a full-price offer (and if it wasn't already gone he didn't) then either he didn't really want to sell it or he was a fool not to take your money.

Or he was selling it for a friend or had another reason not to haggle, happens often. Some people set a firm price and are happy to sit there on it.

It is always interesting though to work with Pinsiders compared to Mr. Pinball or wherever. Pinsiders (for the most part) know what the "wholesale" value of a machine is. I've seen retail prices and they obviously are a lot more (due to brick and mortar stores, salaries, etc.). The opposite side of this coin is when a clueless buyer tries to lowball you, you say, "I've seen this pin for sale at (insert store name here) for 40% more than I'm asking. You can check them out and then come back and we'll talk). Worked once for me anyways.

I've sold a number of pins on Pinside Marketplace and try to be fair with all. Most of the machines I've had for a number of years and am still not taking a loss on because the market has been strong. I try not to be greedy. A few years ago, I decided to put my MM up for sale. I had had it a few years and played a lot of games on it. I liked the game, but thought it was time to let someone else enjoy it (and I had a lot invested in it and the CC sitting beside it). They were selling for (what I considered) stupid money at the time ($10K ones were going in a hurry and up). I had purchased it for $6900 years before and put some parts and work into it. I listed it at $7900 on RGP and had 16 full price offers within an hour. Many "I'll take it, don't sell it to somebody else, I can have a truck there in one day" etc. I ended up selling to a buyer about three hours away after we vetted the situation out on the phone and I knew it was going to a good home (not a flipper). He came down the next day and ended up buying the MM, a Megatouch, and a 6M$M backglass from me as well. I haven't regretted the sale at all, since I got my money out of it and he was absolutely THRILLED to get it. I actually got a post from a potential buyer (after it was already sold) saying that he appreciated me not trying to gouge people with the sale. Made me feel good about it.

I know I went a bit off topic, but wanted to share.

Later.

Hogey

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