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(Topic ID: 131395)

World Series by Gottlieb, "runs scored" problem


By njPinWiz

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by njPinWiz
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There have been 7 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

DSCN5510.jpg
3rd.jpg
DSCN5244.jpg
4grandslam.jpg
3594559388_19f40f6095_oedit.jpg
72GSscoringandsettingBases.jpg
DSCN5200.jpg

#1 5 years ago

Anyone have experience with World Series by Gottlieb. Am having a few issues with "Runs Scored" being counted correctly. And, the "C" interlock relay for "man on 3rd base" is problematic. Will ask detailed questions if anyone is familiar with the mechanics of this pin. Thanks.

#2 5 years ago

Hi njPinWiz
I am not familiar with World Series. About Interlock-Relais: http://rwatts.cdyn.com/download/intro%20to%20bally%20flipper%20games.pdf -> page-22. Also: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm -> http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#axrelayvideo -> he shows how to adjust an Interlock-Relay.
The http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2813 is a Gottlieb-1972, do You have a schema ? Do you have a manual ? Greetings Rolf

#3 5 years ago

Thanks Rolf, will look at those links...those interlock relays are tricky to set properly from what I heard. Gottlieb didn't produce manuals for add-a-balls, so unfortunately don't have that, but I do have a schematic. Not sure it can be read, but here it is...DSCN5200.JPG

#4 5 years ago

Hi njPinWiz,

I worked on one of these a few months back, plus PinHead52 is a real guru on these types of machines.

The interlocks were a pain for me too. I had to clean all of them, lightly sanding any residue on the coil and/or the plate. Then lots of testing to see if the hold and release correctly.

I can try and help where I canā€¦fire away

Danny

#5 5 years ago

Hi njPinWiz +
the video (pinrepair) shows AX-Relays - InterlockĀ¬-Type-Relays. The AX-Relay in my "Surf Champ" is HARD to adjust. When the relay is in place (mounted as it should): It works. If I take it away and lay it on the bottom of the cabinet, turned around 90 degrees to one side: It does not work, puuh.
In the video 1:33 to 1:45 You see a working Interlock-Relay. From 3:20 to 4:10 the faulty mechanical travel. From 4:10 to 4:35 he is bending the moving blades (the ones sticking through the Nylon-Ladder) to get more tension (we could thing of "adding a spring to pull"). Afterwards the switch gap (stationary blades).

It is sad - ipdb is not allowed to show schematics of Gottlieb pins. I can look up in the schema of my "Surf Champ" trying to help -> would be nice, if I can help.
"4Max" and "Pinhead52": Please "take-over" - I have never worked on a Gottlieb-Add-A-Ball and I do not have a schema of Gtb-Add-A-Ball. I am looking forward to read about "Few issues with Runs Scored". Greetings Rolf

#6 5 years ago

Ty Rolf and 4max. Narrowed problem to C interlock, sometimes doesn't pull in. Cleaned and gapped again today. Most times puts man on 3rd (triple, single +double), but not when single+single+single scored. ? HR scores one run properly, one man on base + HR scores two runs properly. But, two men on bases (either) or bases loaded + HR only still only scores two runs incorrectly. ? Am baffled. Any ideas? Will try and upload video of that action between interlock relays, unit hit stepper and score motor.

#7 5 years ago

Hi,

Unfort I passed on my schematic when I sold the game, and yours is too small to read. From memory there is a runs scored stepper unit - you should ensure all the contacts are clean on this as this controls a lot of the action you describe.

I would also send a PM to PinHead52, he has had lot of these machines and is a font of knowledge.

Danny

#8 5 years ago

Thanks 4Max...I don't see a runs scored stepper unit..? there are only two steppers...one in the backbox for the "ball count", the other in the cabinet for "Hit Unit". Both seem to work fine. I'll reach out to PinHead52, if I can figure out how...lol. Appreciate the comments.

#9 5 years ago

I is here...explain your issues I have figured out the bases logic...

72GSscoringandsettingBases.JPG

#10 5 years ago

This is a GrandSlam but the base logic should be the same

#11 5 years ago

I had a wacky issue with one base/interlock, coming on when it shouldnt. Turned out I was missing the insulating pad on the contact fingures, making a closed circuit thru the armature. You'll see it circled in the pic.
3594559388_19f40f6095_oedit.jpg

#12 5 years ago

and a classic picture I have to share, a grand slam of GrandSlams at TPF a couple of years ago. Arranged in order of cab fade 4grandslam.jpg

#13 5 years ago

Thanks pinhead52 for jumping in. That is a cool array of WS machines in the photo! Let me try and recap the issues:
1. when single scores, 1st base lights up as it should. Another single, 1st & second light up as they should. Another single, 3rd base doesn't light up as it should. I checked/double-checked "C" relay, cleaned, replaced a spring, etc. Still nothing. Will look at the insulators too now.
2. when Home Run target or rollover scored, "Run" score reels advances 1 run as it should. When a man on base (any base) and HR target or rollover scored the "Run" score reel advances 2 runs, as it should. When there are 2 or 3 men on any bases, and HR target or rollover scored, the "Run" score reel advances on 2 runs...instead of 3 or 4 respectively.
3. when single + single + single scored ( as mentioned above, 3rd man on base hole doesn't light up) I can place a man on third by either triggering the 3rd base KO hole or manually adding the man by triggering the "C" relay. When bases loaded, the "star" rollover in middle of field lights up & scores 1,000 points properly. If a single is scored in this situation, no "Runs" score.
4. However, when a man is on 1st base, and triple rollover/target triggered, the "Runs" do score. Same with a double, man on 2nd base, and a double or triple triggered, the "Runs" does score. But, in no scenario does the "Runs" score more than 2.

Some things I tried: removed, cleaned, polished rivets, replaced sleeve, cleaned coil/plunger, checked wiring connections etc. on the "Hit Unit" stepper. Hit Unit stepper rivets are worn down considerably, I did a continuity check on each & they seem good. Cleaned, checked/gapped switches on "A", "B", "C" interlock relays and the "Q" alternate relay. Inspected, cleaned, gapped all score reels including the "Runs" score reels...points all scoring correctly, "Runs" are not as mentioned above - but manually it seems like the "Runs" score reel moves nicely & goes from "9" to "10" runs smoothly.

Sorry for the length of this post, but wanted to get all the issues out there.

#14 5 years ago

Thanks pinhead52 also for the comments on the section of schematic you posted. that will be of big help as I continue digging into how to resolve all of these problems!

#15 5 years ago

pinhead52, on the photo of the interlock switch with the insulator problem, is that a second spring that I see below the armature plate? My interlocks only have one spring...see photo.DSCN5244.JPG

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from njPinWiz:

pinhead52, on the photo of the interlock switch with the insulator problem, is that a second spring that I see below the armature plate? My interlocks only have one spring...see photo.DSCN5244.JPG

Nah, just a reflection

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from njPinWiz:

Thanks pinhead52 for jumping in. That is a cool array of WS machines in the photo! Let me try and recap the issues:
1. when single scores, 1st base lights up as it should. Another single, 1st & second light up as they should. Another single, 3rd base doesn't light up as it should.
.

look at the diagram I posted for this tidbit, a contact on the 2nd base B interlock, which will set 3rd for a single. clean and gap and check for loose pads (we hates loose pads)

3rd.JPG

#18 5 years ago

Very helpful, looking at that later today or tomorrow... more to come. ty

#19 5 years ago

Update. Man on 3rd working either single+single+single, or triple, or man on 1st + double. All good there.
Two men on base + HR now scores three runs, also good.
Not working: single+single+single+ any additional single/double/triple...no rus score.
Getting closer!

1 month later
#20 5 years ago

Update: I finally got the WS up & running & scoring properly. It was truly a challenge, and in the end was a combination of getting the score motor relays, Hit stepper cleaned/adjusted, and those pesky "A", "B" and "C" interlock relays all coordinated & working in synch. A major issue was that one of the "C" relay leafs was missing a pad...so no amount of adjustment would have solved the problem. A friend provided an idea & a tiny nut/bolt to use in it's place. That seemed to solve the problem! Thanks everyone for your advice.DSCN5510.JPG

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