(Topic ID: 244884)

World Fair #2 Ferris wheel light only works for a few games.

By phillyfan64

1 year ago

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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by phillyfan64
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#1 1 year ago

Ok, this one has been driving me crazy for a few weeks now. When I hit #2 rollover on my World Fair, it is supposed to turn off the playfield insert and light the corresponding #2 light on the backglass. What happens is the backglass #2 light doesn’t always light up or it will just briefly flicker and turn off. It will work fine for 2 or 3 games but the problem always comes back. I thought I had it fixed. It seems to be tied to the #2 make break switch on the reset bank. I’ve cleaned the contacts with one of those ignition files several times. I’ve adjusted the contacts to no end. Made the contacts as close as possible. It will work fine for a few games and then come back. If I just touch the switch very lightly the #2 light will come on. I don’t know if the relay is maybe not pulling in tight enough sometimes to cause it to not make good enough contact. What would cause that? By hand it seems to move fine. The contacts themselves had a white film on it but look better now since I filed them. Replacing these switches would not be easy. I’d probably have to make up a whole new one from parts from PBR or something.

At first I thought it was the bulb or the socket in the backglass. I replaced both. Obviously that wasn’t the issue.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

#2 1 year ago

Switch stack screws tight? "Floating contacts," (ie-contacts not real tight on blades, which you can fix by squeezing with needlenose pliers)? How about the switch(s) under the RO?

Can you post a snippet from the 6v. side that shows the lite? I don't have the schematic.

#3 1 year ago

I did just check the screws. They are tight. Here’s a picture of the rollover switch. Looks ok. I’m trying to get a good picture of the switch in question. I think “floating contacts” is the issue. If I press the contacts just a tiny bit, I can make the light toggle off and on. So why isn’t it tight enough? Maybe new springs on the relay would give it more snap and make it tighter.

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#4 1 year ago

The switch with my finger on the roller is the #2 switch. The contacts in the middle is the make break switch that I think is causing the issue.

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#5 1 year ago

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The gap looks looks a little wide in this picture but I’ve tried making it closer or wider. Problem comes back regardless. As you can see the contacts are not the greatest.

#6 1 year ago

I even adjusted the rollover wire to make it stick up higher because it seemed to be lower than the rest of the rollovers. No change.

#7 1 year ago

What about the solders, etc? Give the wires a good tug.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from currieddog:

What about the solders, etc? Give the wires a good tug.

Thanks. I have tried that also.

I think I may have fixed it. I removed the spring and took out the armature plate for the #2 relay. It was pretty gummed up on the side that faces the coil. There’s a rivet in the center of it. I went over that rivet with a file a couple times to shine it up. Then I wiped it down with Simple Green and put everything back. It seems to be working now. I think that rivet is making better contact now when the coil fires and that may be giving it more snap and pulling it in tighter. That tighter pull in is making tighter contact of the make /break switch. I’m hopeful but time will tell if that’s really the cause.

#9 1 year ago

I spoke too soon. It’s back. It doesn’t matter if the # 2 is hit with the rollover or with the spinning wheel landing on #2. Either way has the same issue. I don’t know what else to try at this point.

#10 1 year ago

Could the coil itself be going bad?

#11 1 year ago

Is it only the #2 light that is coming on randomly ? If so the first thing you want to do is compare it with one of the other numbers that lights up properly. Cleaning with Simple green and a file on the rivet may not be the best idea. Better to use Isopropyl alcohol. Make sure the end of the coil has no rust on it. If so use CLR or anything else that removes rust and then wipe with the alcohol. My assumption is that when the relay trips the light comes on. If it is not or does randomly then it has to be a couple of things. Keep the bank closed and trip the #2 and see if the light comes on. If not try a jumper on the pair of wires that relate to the closed contacts. If that doesn’t work start looking at the light socket for number 2. Possible corrosion on the socket. Try moving the bulb around in the socket to see if you can make it flicker or light up. Could be a bad light bulb socket. If that still doesn’t work try looking at the #2 on the playfield and trace the wire from it back to the bank#2 position

#12 1 year ago

Thanks. It’s not that it’s turning on randomly. It’s that it won’t turn on when it should. All other lights work correctly. The first thing I did was replace that light socket in the back box because I thought for sure that was the problem. It wasn’t. I also put a new bulb in there with no change either. If I manually push the number 2 rollover blades from underneath the playfield, the lights seem to work correctly every time. I can see the # 2 relay pull in correctly. It seems in game play, that # 2 relay is just not working reliably. Works sometimes, doesn’t work other times. It pulls in, but maybe it’s not pulling in all the way. I know when I took the armature plate off, the coil looked kind of strange to me. Like it was kind of gunked up. It may be rust. I will take a picture tonight and post it here. I need to pull another plate off to compare. If I put just a tiny bit of pressure on the yellow roller with my finger, the #2 backbox light will turn on like it should. This is after the relay has been pulled in by hitting the rollover or the spinning wheel landing on #2.

#13 1 year ago

Just had another thought. If you take the plate off tonight have a look where the coil is and make sure that there is a spring attached to the bank frame and also to the metal piece that has the yellow piece on it ( sorry the name of the piece escapes me ) If there is no spring or it is broken that metal piece won’t pull in enough

#14 1 year ago

It sure looks like rust on the end of the coil. I don’t have any CLR in the house. I can get some in the next day or 2. I did clean it off with isopropyl alcohol. Quite a bit came off. Can I file the end of the coil or use something else to shine that up or is that a bad idea? Maybe a scotch bright pad? The springs are all there.

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#15 1 year ago

I wouldn’t clean the coil end with anything other than CLR or alcohol ( basically anything liquid) Don’t file it or the plate has to work harder. You are showing pictures of the spring and the plate but I am referring to the other spring that is at the bottom ( solder tab end) that attaches to the bank frame. Maybe you are showing it to me but just don’t see it in the picture. While you have the plate out try moving the piece with the yellow forward like the rest and then let go. Does it bend back almost / touch the coil? That will tell you if the spring is there

#16 1 year ago

The spring is there. Here’s a better picture.

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#17 1 year ago

Okay the spring is there. Does the metal piece with the yellow move back and forth easily. Can you compare how that piece moves against another one that isn’t having issues. If that all appears fine then you need to test the coil to make sure it is okay. All those coils will be the same for the numbers, probably A-1118 or A-1119 can’t remember which . Take a reading on the coil and compare it to another to make sure they are comparable. If that passes then you have to start looking at the switches and contacts. I think you said that if you put some pressure on the blades the number 2 will light in the Ferris wheel. Are you doing this with the bank open or closed? If closed then make sure you have the bank pushed forward all the way and the wing nuts tightened down. If still not working then your problem has to be in the make/ break switch. Figure out which two blades make contact when the #2 trips and then determine which wires they are. Then run a jumper between those 2 wires. It should then light the 2 in the Ferris wheel. Let me know

#18 1 year ago

It does seem to move back and forth easily. One thing I read last night about make/break switches that I was not aware of. It says that the one contact should open before the other one closes. If that’s true, then I may not have had this switch adjusted correctly. It appeared to be that the one contact was closing before the other contact closed. That second (middle) closed contact is the one that controls the backglass light in question. I compared this to other make/ break switches on the bank. They were correct. This one definitely was not. Does the make/ break opening /closing sequence make a difference? If it does, that could very well be the problem here. I will take resistance readings of the coil and compare to others on the bank. As far as putting pressure on the roller, I have done that when the bank is in it’s normal position. I think I’ve also tried it in the up position also but I will confirm by tomorrow. I may not get back to this until tomorrow but I will report back. Thank you for your help.

#19 1 year ago

From what you are saying the middle contact/ blade controls the 6v. In one position it turns on the light on the playfield and once tripped it turns it on in the back glass. The blade closest to the yellow and the middle blade light the playfield. The middle blade should be longer than the front blade and when the coil causes it to trip that middle blade opens from the front blade and makes contact with the back blade. As you say pushing on the yellow piece once it has tripped works the light so I would check the contact on that back blade and make sure it is making good contact with the middle one. Possibly it is gapped too far apart. It should be no more than a 32nd to a 1/16th apart. I have seen on rare occasions where the blade itself within the stack is broken and doesn’t make good contact.

#20 1 year ago

I think I got it this time. First, the coil reads 3.7 ohms. It's the same as the other coils. I cleaned up the rust some more. I don't think I'm going to get it any cleaner. Re-ajusted the make/break switch to match the other make break switches. Open the front or top blades first, then close the middle blade when it's activated. Gapped about a 32nd. I've played about 15 games. It worked correctly every time.

I may have one other little issue that I may post a new thread on. Center wheel may be slipping or grinding a little even though everything seems tight. Thank you very much for your help.

#21 1 year ago

I had a World Fair that I sold last year. Nice game. I found the disc was moving kind of slow so I took it out and rebuilt it. What a huge difference it made.

#22 1 year ago

Is it difficult to take apart? I’m kind of leary of doing that. I’ve never taken a stepper apart before. What’s happening is that sometimes when it’s finishing it’s spin, the last bit of that spin doesn’t always sound or look smooth. It doesn’t do it all the time, but it’s definitely noticeable when it does it. I can hear an extra bit of grinding of the gears as it’s stopping.

#24 1 year ago

Excellent, thank you. I’m going to attempt this when I get up enough nerve! I think it definitely needs it.

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