Addams Family, The
Bally, 1992
Jurassic Park (Premium)
Stern, 2019
Oktoberfest
American Pinball, 2018
World Cup Soccer
Bally, 1994You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider Sk0r.
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Hey everyone. I'm going to see a WCS for sale tomorrow. Aside from the common issues from this generation (for instance I already know J120 is busted), what are the WCS-specific things I should check? Diverter? Ball motor? Other?
Also, I know the ball isn't in great shape, see picture attached. Will a good old fashioned cleaning do the trick or does it need replacing?
Thanks!
2019-09-20 10.38.44 (resized).JPGQuoted from fatality83:Make sure the ball motor and goalie motor are good. Look for broken plastics especially around the goal. Also look for cracked ramps (they do make repro ramps now but they are pricey) They make a new soccer ball for $50 or so. Makes a huge difference putting a new one one it is well worth it
Thanks a lot!
Quoted from ktownhero:I would also be sure to take a look at the scoops and see how much wear they have including the one for the goal kick toward the back. I bought one recently and they were way worse than I expected -- I ended up repairing them with some wood epoxy and then putting both mantis and cliffy protectors on them. Looks awesome in the end, but a little bit of a pain.
Thanks. After reading the topic a bit more, I read some posts mentioning issues with the “goal” kicker, that’s something else I’ll make sure to check. Unfortunately the seller had to cancel for today, hopefully I’ll be able to check it out on Sunday.
Quoted from Sk0r:Hey everyone. I'm going to see a WCS for sale tomorrow. Aside from the common issues from this generation (for instance I already know J120 is busted), what are the WCS-specific things I should check? Diverter? Ball motor? Other?
Also, I know the ball isn't in great shape, see picture attached. Will a good old fashioned cleaning do the trick or does it need replacing?
Thanks![quoted image]
I went to see the machine tonight. If I manage to negotiate it at the right price, I think I'm looking at a good project pin which is what I'm looking for.
- Ball motor isn't working. Also ball needs to be replaced
- Goalie switch doesn't register
- Left target of left ramp entry doesn't register
- Right lane change doesn't work
- Lots of broken plastics
- Nasty J120 (or J121, didn't check) burn
- Metal ramp is "desoldered" from its metal base (on top of the right slingshot)
- Noticed a weird hack on the top right board - I think it's the Dot Matrix card but not sure
- Rubbers and flippers need to be changed/rebuilt
- Noticed cabinet cracks on both sides of the lock bar
- Probably a few other issues I didn't have the chance to notice haha
- Pretty much everything needs to be cleaned up
+ Both magnets are working (magna + ball lock)
+ Goalie motor works
+ Ramp needs a good cleaning but I didn't see any crack
+ No major wear on the playfield. It's not perfect but a solid 8/10 after cleaning I'd say
Some questions if you guys don't mind:
- Damaged board: could you confirm I'm looking at the Dot Matrix board (see pictures attached)? Any idea why the dual-diode hack? Basically I'm trying to understand how worried I should be about that (new Rottendog board would cost me 130€ with shipping). [edit: after checking the manual, I'm 99% sure it's the Dot Matrix board. I would still be interested in your opinion about the hack job and seemingly burnt area though!]
- Ball motor: can it be fixed or am I looking at a mandatory new motor order?
- Cabinet cracks: are these common?
- Bonus question: the only pin I’ve owned was a System 11b so I'm not very familiar with WPC test procedure. I did manage to go to test mode but nothing happened when I went to coil test, flash or sound test. Did I forget to do something? On my Taxi, coil mode would automatically fire all coils one after the other. I did push one of the button to switch from "Repeat" to "Linear" (or something like that) but still, nothing was happening.
Many thanks!
IMG_1063 (resized).jpgIMG_3451 (resized).jpgIMG_4000 (resized).jpg
Quoted from Kevlar51:Is the ball motor completely dead, or does it still make a whirring sound but the ball doesn’t spin?
I don't recall hearing any sound at all.
Quoted from centre-drain:Should be an easy replacement, the main concern is to make sure the voltages are correct at the DMD as some "repairs" increased the DMD voltage or the differential voltage to make outgassed DMD's look brighter.
So in mid-term, I should expect to at least have the board repaired or worst case scenario buy a brand new one, right? And/or that the DMD is originally outgassed? :/
Quoted from centre-drain:Ball motor might be an issue with the pinion gear (most likely) but can be also a failed motor, driver, motor interface board or just a loose/broken wire. Impossible to assess from 20000k's away.
Yes. Unfortunately I can't spend time on site to disassemble the whole thing. I will assume the whole assembly needs to be replaced and weigh that in the negotiation.
Quoted from centre-drain:It all depends on price and your skill set.
I'm cool with basic repairs but I don't have the skills for complex board repairs for example.
I asked the seller to come see the pin a second time this week as I want to run the test mode again and better assess potential issues (any idea why coils/sounds/flash weren't firing up during test mode?). Like I said, overall that's a good project but I could also easily end up losing money (I'm not looking to speculate but don't want to end up spending significantly more than what a WCS in good working conditions cost). As it is, I don't see myself offering more than 1100€ max for it.
What drives me crazy is that the seller (super friendly guy) recently spent money to have a "pro" service it. This guy told the seller the burnt connector was nothing to worry about, didn't run test mode, and basically didn't notice any of the stuff I mentioned. Amazing.
Quoted from Kevlar51:With no sound on a motor, you MIGHT find that one of the wires have snapped at the connection. That’s best case assuming you know how to solder (two simple connections). Expense aside though, replacing the motor is a pretty simple process.
Saw the pin again this morning. Bad news: the ball motor does make a sound but nothing happens. Ball assembly alone (motor + ball + shipping to Europe) is a 230€ expense.
More damages I also noticed: a nasty ramp crack in the left outlane return area and creased cabinet decals where the legs are bolted.
On the bright(er) side, I managed to run the test mode (it didn't run the first time because I wasn't pushing the high voltage coin door button). All coils and sounds are working, so that's good.
I made an offer which I think is fair considering the condition. We'll see ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In any case, many thanks for your answers!
Quoted from Sk0r:I went to see the machine tonight. If I manage to negotiate it at the right price, I think I'm looking at a good project pin which is what I'm looking for.
- Ball motor isn't working. Also ball needs to be replaced
- Goalie switch doesn't register
- Left target of left ramp entry doesn't register
- Right lane change doesn't work
- Lots of broken plastics
- Nasty J120 (or J121, didn't check) burn
- Metal ramp is "desoldered" from its metal base (on top of the right slingshot)
- Noticed a weird hack on the top right board - I think it's the Dot Matrix card but not sure
- Rubbers and flippers need to be changed/rebuilt
- Noticed cabinet cracks on both sides of the lock bar
- Probably a few other issues I didn't have the chance to notice haha
- Pretty much everything needs to be cleaned up
+ Both magnets are working (magna + ball lock)
+ Goalie motor works
+ Ramp needs a good cleaning but I didn't see any crack
+ No major wear on the playfield. It's not perfect but a solid 8/10 after cleaning I'd say
Some questions if you guys don't mind:
- Damaged board: could you confirm I'm looking at the Dot Matrix board (see pictures attached)? Any idea why the dual-diode hack? Basically I'm trying to understand how worried I should be about that (new Rottendog board would cost me 130€ with shipping). [edit: after checking the manual, I'm 99% sure it's the Dot Matrix board. I would still be interested in your opinion about the hack job and seemingly burnt area though!]
- Ball motor: can it be fixed or am I looking at a mandatory new motor order?
- Cabinet cracks: are these common?
- Bonus question: the only pin I’ve owned was a System 11b so I'm not very familiar with WPC test procedure. I did manage to go to test mode but nothing happened when I went to coil test, flash or sound test. Did I forget to do something? On my Taxi, coil mode would automatically fire all coils one after the other. I did push one of the button to switch from "Repeat" to "Linear" (or something like that) but still, nothing was happening.
Many thanks!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Bumping this one real quick. I agreed on a price with the seller and should pick up the machine in a few days. I uploaded a bunch of pics on a drive and would be super grateful if some of you here could have a look at them and let me know if you spot anything wrong I might have miss. Here's the link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Aox0PnSgiY5SX0ieZpI303l9kXqa7dE0?usp=sharing
Link to my second post listing some more issues I spotted during my second visit: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/world-cup-soccer-94-owners-everyone-welcome/page/107#post-5256711
Thanks a lot!
Quoted from kermit24:Is that a screw hole to the right of the goal near the mascot shot?
I think so. Why would someone put a screw there I have no idea.
Quoted from kermit24:You need to install new header pins to the GI section where the hacks are, along with new matching connectors.
You are going to need to purchase a new DMD controller board or rebuild the high voltage section of the DMD board. If you can do board work it is about $20 worth of parts. If not, about $100 for the board.
Yep I had already spotted the GI connector to rebuild. Depending on how bad it looks on the other side of the board, I will attempt the repair myself. Otherwise I will send it for repair along with the DMD board.
Alternatively, would you recommend this kind of piggy board for the DMD board? https://www.pinballshop.nl/virtual-pinball/lcd-monitors-dmd-displays/dmd-piggyback-board/
Quoted from kermit24:I would buy new ramps. They are available but expensive. $378! The sling plastics are available I believe also.
Slingshots and a few other plastics are already on my shopping list. Ramps are another story. They're expensive but even more so if you add shipping to Europe :/
To be honest, I'm not aiming at a collector restore so although new ramps would be more than welcome, I doubt I will spend over 400€ on them. I will clean the pin inside and out, replace broken plastics, (try to) fix what needs fixing and perhaps switch to Leds.
Quoted from kermit24:So, do the motors actually work?
Hard to say. It makes some kind of squealing noise but the ball doesn't spin.
One goalie-related question: the goalie target doesn't register. My assumption is that it's probably just a lose wire or optos to clean but what could be the worst case scenario with this? Anyone ever experienced the issue? There are several pics of the assembly in the drive. Other than that, the motor works fine and the goalie moves freely and as far as I remember the pin registers goals.
Quoted from kermit24:The goalie target is very simple, it is just an upside down stand up target. The switch could not be gapped properly or a wire has come off. Worse case scenario is is a switch matrix problem, but if that is the only target not working, that is unlikely. Once you remove the goalie plastic if will probably be clear what is wrong.
Sounds good, thanks!
Any thought on the DMD piggyback board? Sounds to me like it was made for exactly the kind of issue this board has. Also 
centre-drain mentioned something about controlling the DMD voltage to check if it could be outgassed. Definitely need to remember doing that!
edit: just saw you edited your previous post, thanks. Unfortunately, shipping price again makes the price of a brand new board go up from a European country. I'll compare prices between sending it to repair, a piggyback board and a brand new full board and make a decision.
Quoted from JoshinDC:The ball motor has a gearbox that will eventually strip one of the gears and make a terrible noise. If that's what's happened, take it out and look for two screws holding the motor to the gearbox. If you undo these screws and pop the two parts apart you'll see one of the two gears that transfer power from the motor to the gearbox will be completely stripped, but that the stripped gear is longer than the gear it mates with. You may be able to use washers to separate the motor from the gearbox a small amount so that the gears mesh again. No idea how long that will last, but that'll save you $80-$100 on a new gearbox and motor for at least a while. This thread shows the motor taken apart and you can see the gear in question: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/world-cup-soccer-94-ball-squealwhine-noise
Also, most of these machines seem to have the ball wired backwards. I think the original intent was for the ball to assist goal scoring during the game (i.e. it spins clockwise towards the goal) and when you reach the world cup final it reverses direction to up the difficulty. I think most operators reversed the ball to make games shorter. One side effect is that the ball is always being flung into the side of the left ramp and tends to break it. You can check it in the solenoid test mode I believe to confirm the spin direction. (CCW = counterclockwise = anticlockwise)
Good luck!
Josh
Thanks for the detailed answer Josh! I'm afraid I'll never get to the bottom of this ball motor issue as I ended up picking up a Demolition Man instead of the WCS!
Raincheck for joining this club though, I really like WCS and will definitely consider it for a future potential trade 
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