As I expected, the game did not take kindly to being bounced around the winter roads in the Northeast yesterday. We got her down in the basement and put together without too much trouble. Dropped in the first nickel and, not much happened. There is power, and the mixer and control unit motors are running. The magic screen motor is not, but it may not unless the feature is enabled or in use so I'm not much worried about that yet. There were no lights of any kind and no ball being served. I had been a little worried about balls in the trough while moving it around so I pulled up the playfield and took a look. Sure enough, two balls had gotten jammed in the lifter. We had taken the five balls on the playfield out before moving it, but left the other three in there. Probably a bad idea.

Anyway, dropped another nickel and it's now serving balls. The shutter seems to be working but I did notice it did not close once when the first ball was plunged. Lights are coming on behind the numbers as balls hit the holes, but there is no other illumination - no feature or odds lights, no playfield GI, etc. When dropping balls manually into a scoring combination, hitting the R button does not score any replays. I can hear it trigger off some stuff in the backbox when R is pressed, so I don't think it's the switch.

I think I am going to start with replacing all the fuse holders. One of the fuses is actually soldered in and the others seems weak, so that's job one. Anyone have any suggestions on what else to look for to get the lights on? Since the number lights are working, can I assume the fuse is good or would GI and controlled lighting be fused separately? Any suggestions on how to begin looking at scoring the replays?

I'm going to go spend some quality time with the schematic and the several bingo websites I know of! All comments, hints and suggestions are welcome.

Oh, I should mention that all this stuff worked yesterday before hauling it to Vermont from NJ

Oh yeah, Vic, I'm not planning on getting knee-deep in anything just yet. Looking at the schematic, GI is directly driven off the 17 volt transformer tap through a 10A fuse. Absolutely nothing else in circuit, so I'm going to press on with replacing the fuse holders and put in all new fuses. Looking at the old ones, some are over-fused by double the value, so they have to go along with the one soldered in.

Once that's done, I'm going to clean the Jones connectors and hand cycle and reset as many of the steppers as I can - wouldn't surprise me if they picked up some dirt or grit on the trip. Then we'll see where we're at...

Dave

OK, initial problem resolved. Turned out to be the one Jones plug we didn't disturb That small one all the way on the right. It feeds the outputs of the fuse block down into the cabinet wiring. I popped it out, squeezed the connector tabs in slightly, wire-brushed the plug and lighting is now back in service.

I'm going to polish up the rest of the Jones plugs and see if that resolves the replay counter issue. Based on it working yesterday it sure seems to have to be a plug.

I'll still need to swap out these fuse holders as several are weak and one has the fuse soldered in.

I pulled the screws from the playfield and was able to raise it a bit and slide it out a little but then it was hitting on something. Do I need to just pick it straight up and pull it out to avoid snagging anything?

The beast lives!

Its_Alive_(resized).JPG

Played a few games just fooling around and discovered a new problem. I actually noticed this while picking up the machine when we got a 3 ball winner on yellow for 4 replays and only 3 were toggled up on the counter. We put it down to an "off by one" kinda thing which I figured I'd get to eventually. Turns out that's not it. I was checking out some of the holes that weren't lighting when balls landed in them. In the process of doing so, I ended up with a yellow 64 winner. The counter toggled up 3 replays when I hit the R button. Just for kicks, I hit R again, and now I had 6 replays. Once more yielded nine and I quit there, figuring the problem was consistent.

I also noticed when moving the screen that it gets a bit out of line around step C or D.

So I've got a few topics to dig into. Good thing I took tomorrow off

Had a question on the playfield light shields. What is supposed to hold those in? A lot of the ones on this game are very loose and wobble when the ball hits those little curly springs.

With not much else to do, I ordered some stuff from PBR and printed and placed some new instruction cards. They came out great.

Instructions_(resized).JPG

I use paint.net as my drawing program and just printed them through there. Make sure to print actual size and use Print Preview to make sure they look right before wasting the ink/paper. I used Avery Full Sheet mailing labels and they printed in landscape. Just had to cut them out of the sheet and stick them down. It's not an aggressive adhesive so they'll also come up easily if I ever decide to redo the top and bottom arches and side rails.

I really love working on these EMs so I don't mind that it has a few issues. Just more to learn!

I'll be working on the payout issue this afternoon. I only did a quick check yesterday but it looks like only the yellow inline scores are affected right now, though now that you've reminded me I will need to test the section scoring also.

Is there a simple way for me to manually enable the Magic Screen feature so I can move it over for section testing? This machine is downright stingy with awarding features

Need some advice on a new issue now

I think I got the yellow replay scoring sorted out as it will now score 4 replays instead of just 3 at the base odds. Unfortunately it is now difficult to test as the game will randomly shut down while dropping coins. Dropping the first coin works normally. Dropping other coins may work, or may cause the machine to just shut down. It does not seem to matter where I am in the process: scores & features, features only, even trying for extra balls.

Probably something I did, but as far as I know nothing I worked on for the yellow scoring should be related to this.

Gonna go browse the bingo site next but any suggestions are welcome...

Interesting behavior. It's not the coin switch for sure, and I don't think it's the CU 4D switch either. It seems to be doing it only when the door is open. I just played probably a dozen games with no trouble at all with the door closed. Before, I had it open working on the yellow scoring. I'm thinking some sort of vibration issue with the door hanging open.

That yellow scoring is definitely fixed, as I had it count up a 96 win with no problems, so that's one out of the way. Still need to work through checking out the Magic Screen scoring bits but ad-hoc observing leads me to think they are OK. I also verified the 2 rollover buttons are doing what they should. I think I may have spotted an issue with the Press Buttons Now light not always working but need to pay closer attention.

Operational questions for you guys...

After hitting the R button and collecting a win, should I be able to try for extra balls and keep playing for a better win? I tried that once earlier and while digging some nickels out of my pocket, the game shut off like it usually does after the fifth ball has been played. Dropping the nickel then started a new game, even though the EB light was on. I think that makes sense, and I have a feeling if I had hit R to reset the timer unit, it may have allowed me to continue, but I didn't think of that then.

While playing off replays, hitting the Green button flashes and awards features only, as it should. Hitting the Blue button flashes only the scores but occasionally allows features, such as 3 in Orange and 3 in Blue, plus moving the Red Letter game light. Should it be doing that?

Thanks for all the help guys. She's coming along nicely.

Oh, BTW, bingopodcast, the Red Letter game does work. You just can't see it as the backglass is a real mess, sprayed over on the back in a lot of areas with white paint. With the glass off, you can see the red bulb lit on the R letter and the couple times I tested it it worked great.

It's very interesting trying to decide how to troubleshoot something that is, by design, intermittent

Dave

They come and they go problems that is...

Think I fixed the issue with the Blue button awarding features now and then. Found some misadjusted switches on the Feature and Score Lock and Play relays. Also found one on the Mixer 4 relay that was supposed to close when pulled in but wasn't. I guess I'll see what that does somewhere down the line. Nice thing about EM relays is it's pretty easy to tell what switches are supposed to do when the coil pulls in.

I also wound back the reflex unit and this is where I may have screwed up. I now get no odds whatsoever when starting a game. Dropping coins will eventually light them however. Need to go browse the schematic for that.

Is it normal for the reflex unit to have wires soldered to one of the solder tabs that hold the shell on? They don't mention that at the bingo site. I'd like to get the cover off and see where the stops are. It's hard to tell with the cover on. I have a gut feeling it may have either wound backward or forward too far. I also noticed that my game has the #5 ratchet so it's going to reset the reflex much slower than it advances it. I may have to see if I can come up with a selection of ratchets. I gather they had numbers 1-5.

Anyway, that's for later. Getting the initial odds working again is the next thing.

Indeed John! I'm going to look up and favorite that thread.

Well, I am giving up for the night as I'm just frustrating myself now. Things just keep getting worse, and seemingly in things I am not touching. Now, the Red button isn't working. It clicks, and I can hear the relay pull in, but then the lights go immediately out again. The blue button works in that it stays enabled, but the scores never go up in that mode either.

The score units get reset on game start but they never step up for the initial step. That's why no odds lights are on. Frankly, they don't ever step at all right now. If I step them manually, the lights come on and wins do get scored normally. I have no idea why these score units, which were working perfectly, are now no longer working.

If I understand it correctly, and this is the way it used to behave, the initial score is automatic at game start and the second nickel is also pretty much a given, though I'm not sure that's 100%. It was pretty repeatable though. So obviously something is blocking the power to those step up coils. I checked the switches on each score unit and they all seem fine. The yellow score unit has 2 switches, one for the reset position and the other for the max position. The Red and Green units only have a max position switch. That seems odd but it looks to be intended. There are no loose wires hanging around and, more importantly, they did work earlier today.

One thing I need to look at is the Extra Score Step relay. I found it with a blade broken off just a few minutes ago. I've no idea if it was always that way or if it just broke. I don't see how it could be related but maybe the broken switch is in-circuit to the score units. That seems like it could be likely.

If I can get the scoring going again, I think she'll be back to near 100% though I don't quite trust that reflex unit yet. Features seem awfully hard to come by with it reset.

Thanks man. I'll go take a look at the schematic as you suggested and take another look at that Play Features relay. I did look at it earlier and thought it looked fine but I was getting tired.

The blue button actually works correctly. When pressed, it stays on until I hit the green or red. It's the red with the issue - once I press it, the red Scores and Features panel on the backglass blinks but then goes right out again.

Anyway, you're right - focus on getting the odds working again and then worry about the small stuff.

OK, some data points.

For the life of me, I see no issues with the Play Feature relay, nor with the Yellow Score Unit reset switch. It is closed at reset and opens on step one.

If I manually step the score units up to the second level, they will work from then on, increasing at random as expected. Also, features will begin to be awarded too. This in Red mode, and as I'd expect.

One interesting thing I noted was that stepping up the green unit would occasionally award a feature. This is in Red mode again, so acceptable but I found it odd that the Green Score stepper would do that, though it may also have come from the Red Letter game unit which steps when the Green Score unit does. Not sure how all that works.

It looks like this is something in common between the Feature and Score sides and related to the initial 2 "automatic" odds increases. It seems like they cause something to happen that then allows the Score units to be driven randomly.

I'll do that jumper testing tonight and report back. Thanks again for all the help!

Now that I have been in the machine, I am confused as to why I would want to jumper the yellow score unit zero switch, as it is open at the reset position. Looking at around B30 on the schematic, I think what you meant was the open at top switch. I checked that and it looked good. I cleaned it and tested. No change. I switched off, jumpered that switch and tested again. No change.

Next up will be the Play Feature relay switch, assuming I can identify the wire. They are all pretty grungy.

Following it along, it looks like it passes through the score disk and the Play Score relay before hitting CU switch 8E, then continues through mixer relay #2 and EB Trip #1. Is that the path you're thinking of? I think it makes sense due to the fact that things start working after the units are manually stepped. That would put it up on the Mixer 3 path instead.

For those following, here's the schematic section:

Scoring_(resized).PNG

And my discussion, which may well be all wrong

We are looking currently at the red part of the circuit. I've jumpered the Open at Top yellow score unit switch to no effect. I have not yet jumped the Play Feature relay at the bottom, though I have convinced myself that will have no effect either. Here's why. If that switch were open, no score units would EVER step, and as I discovered last night, they will step if I manually advance them. To my eye, that means the Play Feature relay switch must be closed. I am thinking that once I manually step the units, the purple path is coming into play. Note that I didn't draw the purple path for the Red and Green units, but it exists, straight up from the coils. Given the manual step behavior, I am inclined to suspect the green paths. These go through the score disks then off to the left through a couple of paths before reaching wire 30 at the top, which is the bus wire at the top of the circuit.

So I am going to jump that Play Feature relay switch to be thorough but since it is the only path down to the bus on that side, I think it has to be closed.

I will then wait for BP (bingopodcast) or Vic to chime in before mucking about any further.

I did take a look at both the EB trip relay 1 and the Mixer relay just now, and I think they look clean and well adjusted. The Play Score relay only comes into play when the Blue button has been pressed, so I think I can rule out the path through that relay and CU Cam 8E. I have myself nearly convinced to take a look at CU Cam 7. That path seems to be the driver for the initial guaranteed odds jumps.

I think what I will do is meter for continuity from wire 30 to the Mixer 2 relay and then further to CU Cam 7. That should tell me if that part of the path is connected.

Is there a way I can manually turn the CU with the power off? I'd like to get Cam 7 on its lobe and then I should be able to continuity check all the way back through the score disks, through the 3 Open at Top switches, to the Play Feature relay and ultimately to 70 at that relay.

I did have the playfield up very early on when the game would do nothing, to check the trough. That turned out to be the problem that time - 2 balls in the lifter after we transported it. So I am pretty certain the odds issue occurred well after that. To be sure though, I lifted the playfield over lunch and all of the shutter motor cam switches look great. Probably the nicest, cleanest ones on the machine. There is a very heavy metal bar and cage around them so it would be very tough to snag them, and you'd certainly know it I think.

I've examined those relays I'd adjusted earlier 100 times and they look to be operating properly. I'm just not seeing a problem in them anywhere.

I forgot to mention that we did look at the CU over lunch also and it looks to be operating properly. We thought the 7A switch looked to be gapped a bit too loosely so we tightened it up a bit but still no result. I am going to pull the switch stack mounting bracket tonight and roll them upright where I can get a good look at them. We had a sense that the 7A switch looked odd, corroded or pitted maybe, and I want to get a close look at that.

I also want to figure out why the Red Scores and Features panel isn't coming on at game start. I'm wondering if that is somehow related, though from the schematic I don't see how. Is there an order to the closing and opening of the button switches? If I press the Red button, the lights flash but don't stay on and I can hear a relay cycle.

I sure appreciate the help. Basically, as far as I can tell, the game is working but for the guaranteed odds issue and the few other small things, like the Red button panel, the features being awarded in Score only mode.

Dropping a coin cycles the game, opens the shutter but fails to enable the red panel or the opening odds. Once I step the score units manually, the game works. I can play for scores only, features only or both, though the red panel lights won't stay on. Things will be awarded that maybe shouldn't be based on the mode but that's minor. The odds will go up sometimes, features will be awarded sometimes and the first ball will be delivered to the shooter lane. Plunging that ball will close the shutter and lift the next ball. Bingo card lights will come on wherever it lands with a couple suspected bad bulbs. Red and Yellow rollovers work fine. There may be a problem with flashing the before 4th ball lights but the before and after fifth ball work. Once the fifth ball has been shot, if there's a winner, it will score it seemingly correctly. So far I have tested red, yellow and green scoring on the regular card, Red super-section scoring and OK game scoring. All of those work and holding the R down will start the red letter game with the correct setup, including odds! Playing for extra balls works, and balls are occasionally awarded and played normally. The timer unit shuts the motors off after a couple minutes as it should.

I did go over the score units and cleaned them a little but they look quite good and none of the wipers are mangled. It would seem odd that all 3 score disks would fail in the same way too but who knows.

I will check the EB and R button on fourth ball later tonight and report back.

Results of tonight's brief troubleshooting session.

I am not able to start EB play until ball 5 has been shot. I can hit R on ball 4 and start the score searching.

I verified that I at least have connectivity from the EB #1 trip relay switch at around E26 on the wire 30 side all the way through the top of CU Cam 7A at around D28. If I clip the 7A switch closed, I get connectivity all the way to the 3 score unit step up coils. The remaining question for tomorrow is to observe that 7A switch with the front panel down and see if it looks like the moving blade is lifting the static one a little.

I noticed while testing that the Mixer 2 relay seems to latch and trip quickly when a game is started and I wonder if that is breaking that Mixer 2 switch at E28 when it shouldn't. Looking around the mixer, I found a broken wire on the coil marked Spotting Cams Index. Since Index means to hold in place, I am wondering if this coil is supposed to be pulling in to hold the mixer 2 relay on while the guaranteed odds are generated? I will resolder that tomorrow and test some more. I was gratified that there doesn't appear to be a broken wire in that big bundle between the door and the CU.

I got the Red Light panel issue resolved. It was indeed Yellow switch button 3 which was causing the lock-in circuit on the Red Button relay to drop out immediately.

So, some progress. I also discovered the Red Score unit appears to have a short in the odds lamp circuit where that flexible spring guide carries the wiper wiring to the edge connectors. I'll have to pull that apart and look at it too.

Anyone happen to know what size a bingo playfield glass is? I was going to call and order a new piece today and, of course, forgot to measure it.

This is for much later when the machine is running well again, but is there a way to adjust the stopping point of the magic screen when it's moved? Mine lines up well with the numbers when using the right button, but not so well when moving it left.

I'm going to measure the glass tonight and get a new sheet ordered. The one I have is pretty bad and I am not sure it's tempered. Has some very sharp edges too.

Good progress tonight. I got very frustrated and basically threw caution to the wind, not stupidly but more aggressive than I would usually be. When I continuity checked, I had clipped the CU 7A switch closed with one end of my jumper wire to avoid having to fiddle with moving the CU manually. Everything had continuity checked good, but the initial odds still didn't work.

Tonight, I wanted to check that the 7A switch was, in fact, being lifted and I could see that it was. I decided to basically just jumper around everything in the path from the EB Trip Relay to the 7A moving blade. I did that, dropped a coin and nothing! How could this be?

So I sat down for a while beside the machine and fumed/pondered when it occurred to me to actually jump the 7A blades together. In hindsight, I could have obtained the same result by just jumping to the static blade which is connected to the coils. I clipped the 2 blades together with one end of a jumper wire, made sure the loose end was out of the way, and dropped a coin. The score units advanced! So I pulled the jumper I had placed on the Mixer 2 relay and tried again. Nothing! WTF! Fortunately, a cooler head prevailed and I looked at 7A. My clip had fallen off the static blade due to the movement. I re-clipped it and tried once more. YAY! The score units moved.

So I believe I am down to replacing that 7A switch. It's adjusted as close as I dare go, and the color of the contacts looks odd so I think the points may be bad. I burnished them with a flexstone several times to no effect so I think new ones will be needed. I would imagine these are high-current points and the blades look to be a heavier one than the replacements PBR carries.

Anyone know of a source for a pair of CU blades, or have any spares sitting around they'd sell me?

That's the heavy work for tonight. Think I'll relax before bed with some playfield cleaning, post tightening and new rubber installation. I'll save the light bulbs for tomorrow. I may even be tempted to take a file to those points. Doubt I can make them any worse!

What shaft are you referring to? I think it looks like the links between the slats may be worn. There's quite a bit of play in the screen.

OK, thanks. The cam and shaft seem OK. I think there may be some wear in the joints between screens where the guide pins bolt two screens together. I'm guessing those holes are worn. I'll probably have to take one off to see. Another one for later.

I also discovered that the reason the Score Extra Step index coil is disconnected is that it's burnt to a crisp. Have to get a new one of those and see if it's locking on at all once I put it in.

Did some more work today. Man, this machine is a hack job! Found another loose wire, removed from the Play Features relay. I've noticed that the Feature Lock and Score Lock relays don't seem to activate. Is it a correct assumption that these relays should lock in when the associated Play relays do? If not, when should they?

Ordered a bunch of parts from Joe Shope - new reflex unit step down gears to make it less stingy, new switch parts for CU 7, Extra Step Index coil, couple missing counters. Even found one of the missing control bar instruction plates on eBay cheap.

Working a couple options for a new back glass. Just have to get those darned initial odds working...

Yeah, normally I would have chalked it up to transport but the switch blade is almost devoid of solder. It's either new and never connected or, more likely since there's a tiny bit of solder on it, that it was desoldered.

Since neither of my Lock relays are holding I'll have to dig into that. Probably explains why I am getting features anyway when playing scores only and vice-versa.

Here's a non-electronic question...

What's a typical bingo machine playfield pitch? How do you judge the ball speed. Seems like too slow wouldn't give enough bounce off the posts but too fast would just end up missing the holes.

Thanks guys!

Well. something a little bit positive at last - the Play Lock and Score Lock relays now work. Turned out to be CU Cam 5E around C47 on the schematic. Supposed to be normally closed, but looked not to be so gave it a little tweak.

That said, I am beginning to feel like maybe this machine has reached the end of its useful life. It keeps developing random, intermittent issues in things that had been working fine which, in a lot of cases in other mechanical systems I have worked on, can often be a sign of things that are just plain worn out. It now is missing replays when awarding wins and when awarding OK games the scores will often, but not always, move all the way to the highest odds and keep trying to move further. The Magic Screen will occasionally refuse to move when it should. None of these were issues before, even after transport. Feels like I'm going in circles chasing my tail.

A bit more progress tonight. I got my good meter out and started measuring voltage around the score unit guaranteed step circuit. I will confess to not having a great understanding of AC. Most of my other stuff is DC and the AC ones I do have haven't needed any real work. Anyhow, I was able to determine I had 50V at the EB Trip relay 1 switch on both sides, indicating that the switch was passing it. I also had 50V on both sides of the Mixer 2 relay switch. Next in line is CU 7A. There I had nothing, on either blade. I say nothing but the meter said about 4 or 5 volts. Hmmm.

So I pulled the switch stack off the CU mounting bar, wrapped a wire tie around it to hold it together and took a look. Close-up, the points looked fine and everything seemed to be mating properly when closed. I decided to jump 50V direct to the switch and see what happened. I jumped from the output side of the Mixer 2 relay to the input side of the switch and then closed the switch by hand. All 3 score units stepped up! So now I know what the problem is. There is something wrong with the wiring going from the Mixer 2 relay switch to the CU 7A switch.

I got to thinking about how I could trace this out when I remembered I had found a cut wire up near the Position 29 relay. I had no idea what it was, nor any obvious sign of where it should go. Out of suspicion, I continuity checked it and found I had continuity to the 7A switch. Hmm, OK, what if I jump 50V to this wire from the Position 29 relay. Must have picked the wrong wire because I got a loud hum and switched it off quickly. So I voltage checked the broken wire - 50V.

Now I am confused - how can a wire which has continuity back to the 7A switch have 50V on it and not have that same voltage appear on 7A? I still have no answer for that one.

So I jump from my broken wire to 7A and toggle the stack by hand - score units step up again!

So, now I am in WTH is going on here territory? I know what the problem is, I can solve it by running a jumper to 7A from the mixer switch, which is the path drawn on the schematic. The problem is the wiring harness connections are essentially unknown. Why does a wire anywhere up near the Position 29 relay have any connection whatsoever to CU 7A? There is nothing up there that's in circuit for these guaranteed score steps. And that begs the question - what's the broken wire with 50V on it and where does it go? I see no sign of anything broken off the relays up there. I may just have to cut the harnesses apart and see what goes where but I'm not looking forward to those big black ones.

Here's the wire up near the Position 29 relay:

Mystery_Wire_(resized).JPG

And the 7A stack of out the lineup:

Cam7A_(resized).JPG

I've also decided the Score Extra Step relay switch was likely an operator hack. I thought it was broken but it looks like it's been cut:

Hack_(resized).JPG

And last but not least, the nice crispy Score Extra Step index coil:

Crispy_(resized).JPG

Finally! Running a new wire from the output of the Mixer 2 Relay switch to the input on CU 7A has resolved the startup odds issue. I left all the original wires connected just in case they do something else. The schematic seems to indicate 3 guaranteed steps and that's what I get. After that it switches to random as it should.

Also soldered the unconnected wire back to the Play Features relay E switch. This feeds a possible circuit for OK games so maybe they will be a little more prevalent now. Once parts are here I can replace that Score Extra Step Index coil and relay switch blade. The only other remaining mystery is that wire hanging in mid-air up near the Position 29 relay. Not sure how I'll figure that out. Maybe it's a left-over.

Next big thing is scoring. Green 3 in-line scoring is in a runaway state. Yellow and Red are fine. Next I will test 4 and 5 in line, then move on to section scoring. The replay counter may also need a good rehab - it looks a bit sluggish at times.

The other big thing is structural, and that's replacing at least the rear leg bolt plates with the new heavy duty style that spans the cabinet corner. You need to be able to nudge this thing without worrying about it coming undone.

No, I've not had the wipers off yet. Green used to work fine, so I am guessing it's a relay switch somewhere or I'll have to get busy and clean the reels.

Sadly, no. Sick as a dog the last 2 days. I did notice last night that my "red panel" issue, where I think a first coin should immediately light the Features and Scores red panel, is more important than I thought. If the game comes up without that lit, the initial guaranteed odds don't appear. Right now, if I have plunged the first ball after using either the blue or green buttons last, the next game will come up with none of the 3 panels lit. In that case, no guaranteed odds until I manually hit the red button, then they appear and work normally.

Good time for some schematic reading while I am stuck in my recliner watching TV.

Haven't felt like doing much today but did look over the schematics. The Red Panel light circuit seems simple:

Red_Panel_Light_(resized).PNG

I think the red circuit must be OK since the light does come on when the red button relay is energized. The orange circuit through EB2 also seems to work since the EB light comes on when the yellow button is pressed. I'm not seeing much to do here.

The Red Button relay is more complicated:

Red_Button_Relay_(resized).PNG

Since the red button relay does lock when I hit the red button, I am writing off the Shutter Motor 6XA switch as it's common to everything. The orange circuit looks like it should engage the red button relay on a Tilt. I can test that easily enough. There's the purple circuit through the Anti-Cheat relay. I'll need to look at that. The green circuit may be depending on the Yellow button switch 3. I need to look at that. I'm guessing that must be a NC switch that gets opened when you hit the Yellow button to drop the red button relay out, it normally being held in by the yellow button switch and the red button relay switch. Finally, the red circuit through timer cam 17C needs a look, but since the relay will latch when manually pressed, I'm thinking I'll find it's alright.

I need to spend some time looking into the "first coin" startup cycle. Somewhere, something is supposed to be energizing that red button relay coil. Watching some videos today, I noticed on a couple occasions where the red panel light would blink just before getting turned off as the first ball was shot. Maybe it's happening then, rather than at coin-up as I was guessing.

Well, so much for that idea. All I wanted to do was relax and play a few games. Fat chance. Now it won't move the screen anymore, although I can hear things engage when I hit the buttons. The initial odds, which were working fine yesterday but for the issue described in the prior post, are now not working at all until the second coin, even if you engage the red button first.

Another nail in the "this thing is just worn out" coffin. I'm getting tired of it.

You'd think I might be happier right now, but I'm not. I spent some time looking at schematics then went down to have a look. Started up a game and got most of the features enabled. Shot the first ball and tried to move the screen. It now works fine.

This is what drives me insane. The machine is sealed up - door closed, backglass and playfield glass on, so nobody or nothing got into it. Nothing more than 20 minutes going by and now it works. I am afraid it is destined to be unreliable.

I believe it knows that I am upset as it coughed up one of these, probably in fear of its life:

4_Winner_in_Yellow_(resized).JPG
Win_PF_(resized).JPG
Counter_(resized).JPG

A nice 5 in line equivalent in the super section and a 3 inline red on the base screen thanks to the "Move after 5th Ball" feature being on.

At least it scored it properly Any yes, the backglass really is that bad. Actually, it's worse...

Hahaha - happiness with bingos is indeed elusive. Still not feeling up to par, so went down just to play a few games. Played the first, no luck. The machine was being stingy, probably after the 364 replays. Went to play game 2 and, wonderful, now the green score unit and red letter units won't reset. I have some friends coming over tomorrow so I guess I am working on this thing after all

At least it was easy, this time.

Pos29_(resized).PNG

The red circuit powers the Yellow and Red Score unit reset coils, through the Shutter cam 6B switch, so that was known good as they were resetting. The green circuit powers the 2 recalcitrant units and they have only one thing in common - switch E on the Pos 29 relay. Looked fine visually but I flexstoned it and closed the gap slightly. Problem solved. If only they were all like that.

I counted my blessings and called it a night. Here's hoping bingo show & tell tomorrow goes well.

If anyone has access to a Roller Derby, or maybe even a similar machine, I could use a sanity check.

The schematic shows the Mixer 2 relay with 2 NO switches. Mine on the game has 1 NO and 1 NC. I'd like to know which is actually correct. Further, I'd love to know if, when playing the first couple coins, that Mixer 2 relay is staying energized, de-energized, or chattering back and forth.

My guaranteed odds are sporadic and this seems like it may be a contributing factor.

Thanks!

Yeah, it's only a two switch stack. It should be a simple thing to swap the blades around. Here's hoping this wasn't done on purpose along with other hidden changes.

Thanks for all the advice and sanity checks. I've corrected that switch stack to be both switches normally open and initial odds steps are now working as advertised!

That switch stack will need to be redone eventually however. It's a real hack job of 4 broken blades sandwiched together top to bottom (the solder tabs and contact ends are two separate broken blades), rather than just replacing the broken blades with new ones. This machine's weirdness never ends.

Now I still have to figure out why the red "Scores and Features" panel doesn't light up on starting a new game. It awards the odds now, but that light stays off until I hit the Red button and I hear the Red Button relay click in. I need to sit down with the schematic and figure out what's supposed to happen on a new game start to pull in that Red Button relay. It works when you first turn the machine on, as the Red Button relay locks in right away and, of course, it works fine when pushing the red button to play off credits. It's only when you drop a coin to start a new game that it comes up with that panel unlit.

I think the other remaining issues now will be scoring defects. I'm putting a spreadsheet together and will methodically test all combinations. That may reveal a pattern.

Wanted to share something that worked well for me.

I had initially thought that the Red Letter feature wasn't working. As it turned out, this was a consequence of someone trying to "improve" the backglass by handpainting it using what appear to be house paint and brush. The paint is so thick that light barely gets through. To make things worse, they did the same thing to the #55 bulbs, slapping them with some sort of heavy red paint that made them way too dark.

When I got my new bulbs, I was thinking about how to fix this when I decided to try dipping them in a transparent glass paint I use for scale modeling. This worked like a charm! I just poured some into a thin, short cup and dipped the bulbs. I held them upside down for a minute or two until the excess pain ran off and there was just the hint of a drip forming at the bottom, then set them upright and let them dry overnight.

The photo isn't great, and it's still through the craptastic backglass, but it looks very good!

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OK, good to know Steve. I don't mind leaving it alone - one less thing to do!

I'm already working the new backglass angle so we'll see how that all pans out.

I got a NOS replay register in today. I'm taking a somewhat-educated chance on it. It's the same AS-473 major part number, but the suffix is a little different. Looks the same though. Same switch stack, same 2 coil operating style. Even came packed with some vintage 1968 Chicago Tribune newspaper pages

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Guess I'll see if it works tomorrow

It is. Tonight we'll see if it was a wise purchase. The existing one is pretty worn out and very sloppy. The zero position units digit has about one number's worth of slack in it.

Didn't have time to get the replay register swapped out but I did take it down and look the two over side by side. Same coils, so that's good. Mechanism looks to be identical in every respect. The only difference I see is there is one switch missing on the back left side. The original register has 2 on the left, the new one only has the make-break switch. I'll just swap that stack over intact and save the new parts as spares. Might even be able use them to repair my Score Extra Step relay with the cut blade.

As usual with this machine, fix one thing, get another problem.

I put the new replay register in tonight. Swapped over the switch stacks intact, and transferred the coil wiring one at a time to the same lugs, though that shouldn't matter on an AC game. Set the switches so they do what they look like they should do. Turned the game on, dropped a coin, and the game immediately adds 4 credits to the register. It moves nice and smartly, no issues at all. Play the credits down normally by hitting the buttons. Drop a coin, 4 more credits. Now what?!

Turned the machine off and back on. It cleared the credits down to zero as it should. Dropped a nickel - 4 more credits. Re-checked the switch stacks and everything looks good there. So that's the new issue - got to figure out why/how the game is pushing 4 credits to the register. The register is dumb, so there is no "fire the coil once but increment 4 times" possibility. Plus, cycling the plunger once by hand gives precisely one digit. So it has to be the game pulsing the coil 4 times.

Thanks Dennis, but the previous replay register did not do this. It was a bit sloppy and loose, plus quite grungy, but it worked OK otherwise. I've either screwed up somewhere, or the game is doing something it shouldn't. Pondering on it today, I am wondering if it is somehow releasing the replay cams when they should not be. Time for another look at it later tonight.

I'm confused though how any of these mods would not have shown themselves using the previous replay register. Prior to changing the unit, I would drop a nickel and the game would spin cycle once. No credits would be added. Now, after changing the unit, the register adds 4 credits when a coin is dropped.

I do have a relay on the Control Unit shelf that is not shown in the manual. Perhaps this relates to what you're discussing, but how would changing the register make any difference?

Hmmm, now that I am typing this, I am wondering if the extra switch on my replay register vs. the new one is somehow used to configure for a quarter or nickel? I'll have to go play with those switches and see. Perhaps that's it...

Thanks for the hint, gents!

Well, I can't say what the exact mechanism is, but the third switch on my replay register seems to be the key. If that switch is made at 0 credits, 4 credits will be added when a nickel is dropped. If that switch is set such that it is not made at zero, and thus will never make as the moving blade wants to move to open it anyway, then no credits are added. My guess is that it is at least partially as you guys suspected. That extra un-named relay on the control shelf is probably rigged to that switch in such a way that it triggers the replay cams index coil and allows the replay cams to spin once, adding the credits. That's my theory anyway.

The machine has a nickel coin mech in it, but the coin entry plate looks like it may be quarter sized. I'd wager this is all part of a quarter modification.

If we ever get to meet anywhere, I'm buying the beer and/or beverage of your choice. Being undocumented, I would never have worked this out.

Thanks!
Dave

Got some parts from Joe Shope today. That nice, shiny #3 reflex ratchet will be going on shortly to see about making the machine a bit less stingy. One of the coils is destined for the Score Extra Step index and new counters to replace my broken/missing ones. And a nice NOS R button!

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Got a little work done tonight. I put the new R button in since it was easy. That looks much better, Then I spent probably an hour getting the coil replaced in the Score Extra Step Index unit. That was tricky, made even more so by its high position on the door. I needed a small stepladder to get it done. Don't let anyone tell you that the E-184-41 coil can be directly equated to the BF-27-1250. They may have the same electrical characteristics but the physical factor is different. The plastic backing plate for the coil is significantly taller on the BF coil. I had to bend the coil tabs back more than 90 degrees to keep them from shorting on the frame. I'm not really happy with it, but it works fine. I may try to source the original E coil for it just to ease my mind.

I'm not sure why that other coil was so burnt. The new one is behaving just fine. Tomorrow or Thursday I'll attempt to fix that broken/cut switch blade on the Score Extra Step relay, swap out the reflex unit ratchet and wire in the 2 counters.

So, question of the day. Did Bally produce the Green Book for every machine? It would sure be nice to have a detailed breakdown of all these units so you could see how they went together and how they come apart. I know the couple Green Books I have found online are for other machines. Just curious if one was produced for each machine?

I managed to scrounge up one of the two plates I believe are missing from the control bar. I can get new ones from Coos in the Netherlands, but they will be dear thanks to the exchange rate and cost of shipping. This was cheap, off EBay. I couldn't find any decent-looking brads, so I had to use screws but it looks OK.

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I also popped the cover on the reflex unit tonight to get a look at it. Sure enough, it does have the gaff bolt in it. I'm not sure if that was factory-installed or not, and I need to look more closely at the disc and wiper, but I am pretty sure it's not loosening up as much as it could. In the photo, you can see the stop pin against the gaff bolt after I rolled the unit back by hand. You can also see the metal stop at the bottom for the tightening direction.

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I have to decide if it's worth messing with it to take the gaff out or just leave it be. I will put the more liberal ratchet on it and that might be enough.

OK, so I need another sanity check here. If anyone has a Roller Derby or similar vintage Magic Screen game, I need to confirm that the red Features and Scores panel lights up when you drop a coin for a second or subsequent game.

On my machine, the Red Button relay pulls in when the game powers on, through a NC switch on the Anti-Cheat relay, which remains de-energized at that point. The red panel light is now on via a switch on the Red Button relay. Once the first coin is dropped, the Anti-Cheat pulls in, breaking that initial circuit to the Red Button relay, but that doesn't matter as the relay is now held in by its lock-in switch, through the Yellow Button's NC switch 3 and a 60 ohm, 15W resistor. Thus the red panel light stays illuminated. When you shoot the first ball, the Red Button relay drops out and the light goes off, presumably due to Shutter Motor cam 6XA. So far, so good.

So now we shoot the last ball. We move to the second game after power-up by dropping a new coin. We now need the Red Button relay to be energized to get the red panel light back on and here's where I don't see it. The Anti-Cheat relay is still in, as it should be, so that path is broken since the NC switch is now open. The path through the Tilt relay is broken by its NO switch. The path through the Yellow Button's NC switch 3 is broken because the lock-in switch on the Red Button relay is still in its NO state since the relay hasn't energized yet. That leaves the only available path via the Red Button's NO switch 1 through the Timer Cam's NC 17C. Thus it seems to me that the ONLY way to get that red panel light to be on is to push the button, but I believe I have seen it come on automatically on other machines, hence the request for a sanity check. Maybe there really is no problem here and I am chasing a ghost.

Man, some of these operators were just downright dishonest. I got to thinking to myself today that in all the work and testing I have been doing, I have not once seen the "2 in Blue scores Green 5" feature be awarded. Oh, it flashes during the spin cycle, to be sure, but I've never seen it actually get enabled and I've pumped in well over a hundred nickels at some points. Mind you, too, this is with the Reflex Unit wound back to loose.

So, I sat down with my schematic this evening and looked it over, discovering that the Blue Score Booster relay is in the trip bank, there's an adjustment plug for this feature, and it runs through the spotting disc and a couple switches. I went down and started looking things over. The adjustment plug was in the liberal position but was quite dirty so I wire-brushed it. No change. I checked the Alt Cam 9XA switch and the Magic Screen Open at Top switch. Both looked good, clean and well-gapped. I then went to look at the trip bank. Hmmm, what do you know? The NC Switch in the A position, which opens to de-energize the coil when the relay trips, was bent so as to be open all the time. There was never going to be any power to that coil to trip the latch. I adjusted and gapped it properly. On the first game I played, that function enabled after a fair number of nickels, much as I expected it should. I dropped 2 balls in and it scored the section correctly. Damned hacks...

Hehehe, right you are Nick. I wondered if fixing the switch was going to be all it took. Fortunately it was

If it's supposed to be turning that red panel on, I don't see how it does it from the schematic. Thanks for checking when you get the chance...

Which machine did you test on Nick? I'd like to compare its schematic to mine.

Thanks Nick! Looking at Bounty's schematic, your game has an extra path to energize that Red Button relay, via the NO Red Score Unit zero switch. Once the game resets the score units then steps up once for the initial odds, that switch must close and provide power to the coil to pull in the Red Button relay.

Roller Derby has no such circuit, so I am thinking that my behavior where the light does not come on may be as designed, though maybe an inadvertent error on Bally's part. I may look into trying to put in a similar circuit on the Yellow Score unit zero switch on my game. On Roller Derby, only the Yellow Score unit has a Zero switch, for some reason.

If you have a moment, can you run the test again and see if you can tell if the red panel lights before or after the initial odds come on. It may be too quick to tell but if you can, that would confirm the theory.

I spent some time tonight putting in one of two new counters. This one was interesting as it was apparently not provided with the game, likely due to the gambling issues. It's on the schematic in a sort-of grayed out fashion:

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Conveniently, however, the wiring was nicely tied up in the coin door area, soldered to a couple of solder tabs and screwed to the cabinet. How nice of Bally! I removed the solder tabs from the cabinet, clipped the wires from them and hooked them up. Sure enough, dropping a coin increments the counter. Playing off a replay does not, but that will be reflected on the third counter which I haven't installed yet but did test. That one and the existing one, which increments when the game resets the replay register at startup, would basically give you all the info you needed for accounting purposes. The Coin In plus Replays Played would give you Total Plays and the Replays Counted Down (AKA Paid Off) would allow calculating profits. Pretty cool!

The new backglass finally came in today. What an improvement over the old one! Here's what we started with:

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And here's where we are today:

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Orders of magnitude better but, that said, it's not quite as good as I had hoped. You can tell it's printed from a scan in the smaller text areas, where things are a little blurry. What should have been done was replacing the scanned text with typed text using a comparable font to get a nice, sharp appearance. This is way more than fine for now, but I may look into one of the foils from Coos in the Netherlands. Those are apparently very high quality, though you must adhere them yourself as he won't ship glass to the US. They are adhesive and you basically stick it wet to a wet sheet of tempered glass then squeegee it down.

Anyway, I am happy with the new glass and the game looks much, much snappier now.

Got my PBR order today so tomorrow is Bingo maintenance day! I have to fit the replacement switch blades to the Score Extra Step switch. All new rubber has to go on, new bulbs for behind the number plate plus a NOS number plate from Joe Shope to replace my scratched up one. Then it's time to pull the playfield and put in new, beefed up leg bolt plates that span the corners and screw to the sides of the cabinet. One of mine is stripped and I want something a bit more solid for the amount of nudging these things demand

I also realized I have never seen the machine tilt, so I need to check that it will.

Thanks Vic. It was a good base to start with and had just enough wrong with it to make it a valuable learning experience. I rarely buy anything that's working perfectly because I get so much enjoyment from fixing them.

You know, I thought that back left leg was a little loose...

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I had a pair of the newer style leg plates with the side wings but the wings are just a bit too wide and overlap the bolts used for the metal corner reinforcement. I'm going to see about having the local machine shop cut the wings in half and drill new holes for the screws. I replaced it for now with an old one I had on hand from my Firepower.

Got her put into the lineup for a while as I'm waiting on some parts. The basement is a work in progress but it's coming along

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They would work, and they may have to, but ideally I'd want the ones that have the wings that screw to the cabinet walls for extra support, especially on those back legs.

Went down to do some work on Roller Derby tonight but instead got hung up playing it

You have to love it when you get two good ones back to back - makes all the losing games somehow disappear. I'm sure that feeling led to many spent nickels back in the day! Maybe I'll get some work done tomorrow...

Nice Supersection hit

Another nice green hit, though low odds

Had an issue pop up today. Haven't looked into it yet but as always, any tips or advice are sure to be helpful. Had a friend playing and he went for Extra Balls. Got and played the first two. The third was tough but he finally lit all the lights only to have no ball delivered. I tested it again on a new play and it did the same thing, so it's definitely repeatable.

Hoping I'll get some time Friday or over the weekend to work on the machine, as I need to resolve this issue and I have a bunch of parts from Joe Shope to install.

Nope, manual lift button doesn't do anything, so I'll scope out that EB unit. Thanks!