As usual with this machine, fix one thing, get another problem.

I put the new replay register in tonight. Swapped over the switch stacks intact, and transferred the coil wiring one at a time to the same lugs, though that shouldn't matter on an AC game. Set the switches so they do what they look like they should do. Turned the game on, dropped a coin, and the game immediately adds 4 credits to the register. It moves nice and smartly, no issues at all. Play the credits down normally by hitting the buttons. Drop a coin, 4 more credits. Now what?!

Turned the machine off and back on. It cleared the credits down to zero as it should. Dropped a nickel - 4 more credits. Re-checked the switch stacks and everything looks good there. So that's the new issue - got to figure out why/how the game is pushing 4 credits to the register. The register is dumb, so there is no "fire the coil once but increment 4 times" possibility. Plus, cycling the plunger once by hand gives precisely one digit. So it has to be the game pulsing the coil 4 times.

Thanks Dennis, but the previous replay register did not do this. It was a bit sloppy and loose, plus quite grungy, but it worked OK otherwise. I've either screwed up somewhere, or the game is doing something it shouldn't. Pondering on it today, I am wondering if it is somehow releasing the replay cams when they should not be. Time for another look at it later tonight.

I'm confused though how any of these mods would not have shown themselves using the previous replay register. Prior to changing the unit, I would drop a nickel and the game would spin cycle once. No credits would be added. Now, after changing the unit, the register adds 4 credits when a coin is dropped.

I do have a relay on the Control Unit shelf that is not shown in the manual. Perhaps this relates to what you're discussing, but how would changing the register make any difference?

Hmmm, now that I am typing this, I am wondering if the extra switch on my replay register vs. the new one is somehow used to configure for a quarter or nickel? I'll have to go play with those switches and see. Perhaps that's it...

Thanks for the hint, gents!

Well, I can't say what the exact mechanism is, but the third switch on my replay register seems to be the key. If that switch is made at 0 credits, 4 credits will be added when a nickel is dropped. If that switch is set such that it is not made at zero, and thus will never make as the moving blade wants to move to open it anyway, then no credits are added. My guess is that it is at least partially as you guys suspected. That extra un-named relay on the control shelf is probably rigged to that switch in such a way that it triggers the replay cams index coil and allows the replay cams to spin once, adding the credits. That's my theory anyway.

The machine has a nickel coin mech in it, but the coin entry plate looks like it may be quarter sized. I'd wager this is all part of a quarter modification.

If we ever get to meet anywhere, I'm buying the beer and/or beverage of your choice. Being undocumented, I would never have worked this out.

Thanks!
Dave

Got some parts from Joe Shope today. That nice, shiny #3 reflex ratchet will be going on shortly to see about making the machine a bit less stingy. One of the coils is destined for the Score Extra Step index and new counters to replace my broken/missing ones. And a nice NOS R button!

New_Parts_(resized).JPG

Got a little work done tonight. I put the new R button in since it was easy. That looks much better, Then I spent probably an hour getting the coil replaced in the Score Extra Step Index unit. That was tricky, made even more so by its high position on the door. I needed a small stepladder to get it done. Don't let anyone tell you that the E-184-41 coil can be directly equated to the BF-27-1250. They may have the same electrical characteristics but the physical factor is different. The plastic backing plate for the coil is significantly taller on the BF coil. I had to bend the coil tabs back more than 90 degrees to keep them from shorting on the frame. I'm not really happy with it, but it works fine. I may try to source the original E coil for it just to ease my mind.

I'm not sure why that other coil was so burnt. The new one is behaving just fine. Tomorrow or Thursday I'll attempt to fix that broken/cut switch blade on the Score Extra Step relay, swap out the reflex unit ratchet and wire in the 2 counters.

So, question of the day. Did Bally produce the Green Book for every machine? It would sure be nice to have a detailed breakdown of all these units so you could see how they went together and how they come apart. I know the couple Green Books I have found online are for other machines. Just curious if one was produced for each machine?

I managed to scrounge up one of the two plates I believe are missing from the control bar. I can get new ones from Coos in the Netherlands, but they will be dear thanks to the exchange rate and cost of shipping. This was cheap, off EBay. I couldn't find any decent-looking brads, so I had to use screws but it looks OK.

Plate_(resized).JPG

I also popped the cover on the reflex unit tonight to get a look at it. Sure enough, it does have the gaff bolt in it. I'm not sure if that was factory-installed or not, and I need to look more closely at the disc and wiper, but I am pretty sure it's not loosening up as much as it could. In the photo, you can see the stop pin against the gaff bolt after I rolled the unit back by hand. You can also see the metal stop at the bottom for the tightening direction.

Reflex_(resized).JPG

I have to decide if it's worth messing with it to take the gaff out or just leave it be. I will put the more liberal ratchet on it and that might be enough.

OK, so I need another sanity check here. If anyone has a Roller Derby or similar vintage Magic Screen game, I need to confirm that the red Features and Scores panel lights up when you drop a coin for a second or subsequent game.

On my machine, the Red Button relay pulls in when the game powers on, through a NC switch on the Anti-Cheat relay, which remains de-energized at that point. The red panel light is now on via a switch on the Red Button relay. Once the first coin is dropped, the Anti-Cheat pulls in, breaking that initial circuit to the Red Button relay, but that doesn't matter as the relay is now held in by its lock-in switch, through the Yellow Button's NC switch 3 and a 60 ohm, 15W resistor. Thus the red panel light stays illuminated. When you shoot the first ball, the Red Button relay drops out and the light goes off, presumably due to Shutter Motor cam 6XA. So far, so good.

So now we shoot the last ball. We move to the second game after power-up by dropping a new coin. We now need the Red Button relay to be energized to get the red panel light back on and here's where I don't see it. The Anti-Cheat relay is still in, as it should be, so that path is broken since the NC switch is now open. The path through the Tilt relay is broken by its NO switch. The path through the Yellow Button's NC switch 3 is broken because the lock-in switch on the Red Button relay is still in its NO state since the relay hasn't energized yet. That leaves the only available path via the Red Button's NO switch 1 through the Timer Cam's NC 17C. Thus it seems to me that the ONLY way to get that red panel light to be on is to push the button, but I believe I have seen it come on automatically on other machines, hence the request for a sanity check. Maybe there really is no problem here and I am chasing a ghost.

Man, some of these operators were just downright dishonest. I got to thinking to myself today that in all the work and testing I have been doing, I have not once seen the "2 in Blue scores Green 5" feature be awarded. Oh, it flashes during the spin cycle, to be sure, but I've never seen it actually get enabled and I've pumped in well over a hundred nickels at some points. Mind you, too, this is with the Reflex Unit wound back to loose.

So, I sat down with my schematic this evening and looked it over, discovering that the Blue Score Booster relay is in the trip bank, there's an adjustment plug for this feature, and it runs through the spotting disc and a couple switches. I went down and started looking things over. The adjustment plug was in the liberal position but was quite dirty so I wire-brushed it. No change. I checked the Alt Cam 9XA switch and the Magic Screen Open at Top switch. Both looked good, clean and well-gapped. I then went to look at the trip bank. Hmmm, what do you know? The NC Switch in the A position, which opens to de-energize the coil when the relay trips, was bent so as to be open all the time. There was never going to be any power to that coil to trip the latch. I adjusted and gapped it properly. On the first game I played, that function enabled after a fair number of nickels, much as I expected it should. I dropped 2 balls in and it scored the section correctly. Damned hacks...

Hehehe, right you are Nick. I wondered if fixing the switch was going to be all it took. Fortunately it was

If it's supposed to be turning that red panel on, I don't see how it does it from the schematic. Thanks for checking when you get the chance...

Which machine did you test on Nick? I'd like to compare its schematic to mine.

Thanks Nick! Looking at Bounty's schematic, your game has an extra path to energize that Red Button relay, via the NO Red Score Unit zero switch. Once the game resets the score units then steps up once for the initial odds, that switch must close and provide power to the coil to pull in the Red Button relay.

Roller Derby has no such circuit, so I am thinking that my behavior where the light does not come on may be as designed, though maybe an inadvertent error on Bally's part. I may look into trying to put in a similar circuit on the Yellow Score unit zero switch on my game. On Roller Derby, only the Yellow Score unit has a Zero switch, for some reason.

If you have a moment, can you run the test again and see if you can tell if the red panel lights before or after the initial odds come on. It may be too quick to tell but if you can, that would confirm the theory.

I spent some time tonight putting in one of two new counters. This one was interesting as it was apparently not provided with the game, likely due to the gambling issues. It's on the schematic in a sort-of grayed out fashion:

Coins_Counter_(resized).PNG

Conveniently, however, the wiring was nicely tied up in the coin door area, soldered to a couple of solder tabs and screwed to the cabinet. How nice of Bally! I removed the solder tabs from the cabinet, clipped the wires from them and hooked them up. Sure enough, dropping a coin increments the counter. Playing off a replay does not, but that will be reflected on the third counter which I haven't installed yet but did test. That one and the existing one, which increments when the game resets the replay register at startup, would basically give you all the info you needed for accounting purposes. The Coin In plus Replays Played would give you Total Plays and the Replays Counted Down (AKA Paid Off) would allow calculating profits. Pretty cool!

The new backglass finally came in today. What an improvement over the old one! Here's what we started with:

OldbG_(resized).JPG

And here's where we are today:

NewBG_(resized).JPG

Orders of magnitude better but, that said, it's not quite as good as I had hoped. You can tell it's printed from a scan in the smaller text areas, where things are a little blurry. What should have been done was replacing the scanned text with typed text using a comparable font to get a nice, sharp appearance. This is way more than fine for now, but I may look into one of the foils from Coos in the Netherlands. Those are apparently very high quality, though you must adhere them yourself as he won't ship glass to the US. They are adhesive and you basically stick it wet to a wet sheet of tempered glass then squeegee it down.

Anyway, I am happy with the new glass and the game looks much, much snappier now.

Got my PBR order today so tomorrow is Bingo maintenance day! I have to fit the replacement switch blades to the Score Extra Step switch. All new rubber has to go on, new bulbs for behind the number plate plus a NOS number plate from Joe Shope to replace my scratched up one. Then it's time to pull the playfield and put in new, beefed up leg bolt plates that span the corners and screw to the sides of the cabinet. One of mine is stripped and I want something a bit more solid for the amount of nudging these things demand

I also realized I have never seen the machine tilt, so I need to check that it will.

Thanks Vic. It was a good base to start with and had just enough wrong with it to make it a valuable learning experience. I rarely buy anything that's working perfectly because I get so much enjoyment from fixing them.

You know, I thought that back left leg was a little loose...

Leg_Plate_(resized).JPG

I had a pair of the newer style leg plates with the side wings but the wings are just a bit too wide and overlap the bolts used for the metal corner reinforcement. I'm going to see about having the local machine shop cut the wings in half and drill new holes for the screws. I replaced it for now with an old one I had on hand from my Firepower.

Got her put into the lineup for a while as I'm waiting on some parts. The basement is a work in progress but it's coming along

2016_March_Lineup_(resized).JPG

They would work, and they may have to, but ideally I'd want the ones that have the wings that screw to the cabinet walls for extra support, especially on those back legs.

Went down to do some work on Roller Derby tonight but instead got hung up playing it

You have to love it when you get two good ones back to back - makes all the losing games somehow disappear. I'm sure that feeling led to many spent nickels back in the day! Maybe I'll get some work done tomorrow...

Nice Supersection hit

Another nice green hit, though low odds

Had an issue pop up today. Haven't looked into it yet but as always, any tips or advice are sure to be helpful. Had a friend playing and he went for Extra Balls. Got and played the first two. The third was tough but he finally lit all the lights only to have no ball delivered. I tested it again on a new play and it did the same thing, so it's definitely repeatable.

Hoping I'll get some time Friday or over the weekend to work on the machine, as I need to resolve this issue and I have a bunch of parts from Joe Shope to install.

Nope, manual lift button doesn't do anything, so I'll scope out that EB unit. Thanks!