Quoted from BenetBoy78:All three are to-the-grave keepers.
How old did you say are? Just curious... 
(Topic ID: 127724)
Linked Games
Grand Champion
Williams, 1953
Topic Gallery
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider o-din.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
11 months later
Quoted from presqueisle:Having some problems uploading pics at the moment
I'm not.
Quoted from presqueisle:I like the jackpot features mentioned of the '50-'55 Gtb's (sounds like fun), but understand they may be easier to beat than the later years. ??? Were the replays much more liberal during the earlier years of woodrails?
And to answer this question, the Frontiersman you can win lots of games at once, but not every game.
The Williams games are very hard to win a replay, something that continued on thru the 60s.
Quoted from presqueisle:I just don't see those around here, at least in the condition I look for. I'm a 'maintainer' (but slowly learning) at the moment.
You don't see them because they didn't make many of each title and most got played into the ground. They cost a dime to play as well, but even with that and not giving out replays like candy, it didn't stop people from stepping up to the challenge. If you look at the pics you will see they are also very stout relatively speaking. I like having games from different makers to keep things interesting. If I stuck with only one, it wouldn't be as much fun.
Quoted from presqueisle:I hear ya.
You should hear them! 50 volt bell coils in those solid wood cabinets can wake the dead.
I'ts not in the way and it only looks stained in the pics. Don't know where this 70 year old time capsule came from, but I know where it's staying. Lot of fun to play too.
If you like late 50s Gotts, find a Universe. Some say it's no good, but I found it a lot of fun to play. Cool artwork to.
Quoted from pinwiztom:Though when WMS went with its new modern styling look,
I think it looked great.
One thing the later WMS woodrails and the mod cabs have in common is they are some of the most solid, well built cabinets and machines in general ever. And i've got others to compare them to.
Quoted from pinwiztom:That is called patina.
I'm not sure if it was the flash or the cheap digital camera's interpretation of all the yellow paint spots, but this Lady Robin Hood has a very clean and what looks like original cabinet to go along with that playfield.
It has some rich colors and cool designs, but the most beautiful part of Lady Robin Hood is the mirrored backglass. It is a repro done who knows when, but pretty just the same. I am also impressed with the overall art package of Fiesta that I purchased today. Can't wait until it gets here.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:So Id like to ask, young and old, since I havent played anything in ages, other then Whoa Nellie, Do these grab you?
Do you come back for another and another?
I know its not Flow Fan Club....got that, but since I dont know the rules, and was too young to understand...how do you play these? Beat them often? 5 minute games or less?I hope you dont mind, Im curious as to how others see their games, along with the incredible Art and Magic they bring.
I grew up playing EMs in the late 60s and 70s and short flipper games were my nemesis. I'd play them but they were too hard to win on and pocket change was short. There were some woodrails around but titles I can't remember. I never stopped playing and got into DMDs big time in the 90s. Never thought about getting a woodrail or any game from the 60s or prior when I started buying.
Exposure to what was out there and doing research changed all that. What changed my thinking the most was when Big Daddy showed up. That game wet my appetite for more like no other had.
The DMDs are all but gone now and I don't care to play them much. With the old EMS and woodrails I'm lucky that I have a friend that is also taking the same route. We play fierce competition on the multiplayers and use the single players as fluffers while waiting our turn. It never gets old.
To think replacing a DMD game with a woodrail is a sacrifice, is dead wrong. These are more fun, challenging, look, feel, and sound better than anything I've played from the new millenium and I've had a few. And there certainly is a lot more variety.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:Now, the "real" wood rails must be a blast! The sounds of the chimes in the videos ring to the bone!
How long will a game list, after getting skilled with a game?
Are there desirable game playing features, as a player with experience you look for?
They have bells, not chimes. And they all play their own special tune. Game times can vary. There are lots of features to choose from. Getting a good mix on a variety of games is what I strive for.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:My ignorance that they were bells, not chimes....3 in a game, or were there more?
Not ignorance, maybe lack of exposure. Some had two some had three. About the same time two inch flippers went away so did bells. Newest game I had with them was 1972 Fireball which may have been the last game with bells only.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:Its almost a brave thing to admit
Maybe, but it's true. If you weren't a private collector, you played what was on location. And by the mid 90s EMs on route were pretty much extinct. And all that was left for me was a fond memory of a few I remembered playing and that cold feeling when solid states started to replace them.
Most that start collecting go after the games they remember playing first, but I'm past that now and am going after the ones I never played. I'm younger than those that played woodrails when they were new, but as older collectors reduce the size of their hoards, I feel the torch is being passed and guys like me are the keeper of the flame so to speak.
But at the same time as more video gamers enter the hobby with little or no respect for pinballs glorious past, I feel that we may be the last.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:No wonder it was a MEGA earner in the 50's.
Fromtiersman is a mega earner in 2016. Although I wish it wouldn't give out so many free games...
Quoted from presqueisle:No, just hoping you're not right, that's all.
Oh, OK. I may not be 100% correct, but I see less and less newcomers interested in what we are doing. Most want a machine with loud music, guys yelling at them, ramps to hit a million times a game and silly licensed themes that are no longer relevant. But there are exceptions....
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:I'm offering opportunities to acquire tasteful games from my personal collection:
Look at him go!
I think you already sold the ones I wanted while I was on hiatus, but GLWS!
Quoted from AlexF:My guess is after the new generation fully explores the games they grew up with they will be curious enough to discover the earlier eras. At least some of them will hopefully...
There is always the possibility that new pinballs will stop being made and then they may have no choice... 
Quoted from Pinballprowess:Would just like to see these great EM's live on and be appreciated by future generations.
Thank goodness my daughter's taking auto shop at school. She will be able to maintain them when I'm gone.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:Might be following you, O-din, in some way.....
How many Wood Rails can I trade a White Water for?
You will run out of space before money. I spend a lot more time just looking at these than I ever did my DMDs. But it was nice to get it out of my system. I just picked up a couple nice system 11s in Cyclone, Earthshaker, and Whirlwind and that is all the modern pinball fix I need anymore. Especially Cyclone.
Quoted from presqueisle:I guess my experience is with the 14 yr old and under crowd (my kids, their friends and cousins ages). I've seen and heard their reactions to the new stuff. They all don't like them.
My kid's the same way. She stopped playing the newer games a long time ago. But when she come up every few weeks she beats everybody on the EMS and is just as enthused as we are.
Quoted from Pinballprowess:Yes, your machines will have the cleanest oil and air filters in the land.
I always joke that pinball machines are just like cars but no oil, no filter, no wheels , no tires, no brakes.
Quoted from oldcarz:There's also a vintage Cyclone. Here's a 1951 Gottlieb Cyclone in storage awaiting shopping....
There is also a vintage Whirl-Wind. I bought one yesterday but it is missing some parts. This one's not mine.
The one I got is missing the backglass and plastics from what I can tell. It might be a tough one to bring back.
Working on these comes natural to me as I fixed automotive electrical problems, and believe me these are much easier. I was one of the last guys around here that could service points and carburetors.
This may have been one of the first relay banks I ever saw. Anybody care to guess what they do?
Quoted from Darcy:Spare solenoids for 20 Fords' from 1965 to 1983 (or so)
Nope, they all line up in that bracket and when all wired up they serve one purpose.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:Oh Yeah! Now Lets see a picture of that with a Mint wood rail in the Back!
First I'd need the mint woody! I'm think I'm done with cars though. My trusty 2001 Tacoma should hang tough for the remainder I hope.
I read about you getting out of the business because of health issues, and I don't think anything could be less stressful and more healthy than going this direction. Sure has made me feel good!
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:Well, if you're going to go there ...
My old man had a 1957 Hunter. He spent a lot of time varnishing that boat. There was a Chris Craft right next to it.
Copy.... and....paste...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/moving-sale-have-to-let-go-of-some-ems
No, EM hangout is no longer it's own island. We have to play by the same rules as everybody else now.
So maybe they will start taking us seriously too.
Quoted from JKnPA:where do you get parts for these older 'woodrails' ?
Wherever you can.
1 week later
Must have been one of the last impulse flipper games. On my Pinky they work fine though and add to the challenge of timing your shot. These games are a little shorter front to back than the regular flipper games of their time. Harry Mabs designed this one. It is pretty tempting as it may be the only one left in that condition.
I have two impulse games and have been thinking that may be enough. I haven't got to play Speed Way yet as it is still a project. Pinky has such a creative layout and rule set that I'm thinking it may be hard to beat as far as impulse games go. However a friend of mine has an immaculate Struggle Buggies and I am looking forward to playing it. If nothing else it is a neat looking machine.
It's one that got by me. He called me up one day and said I'm getting a Struggle Buggies! And I said a what?
Quoted from Shapeshifter:And a 1953 game with score reels!
They made six games with score reels but then decided that idea probably would never fly. They added those dummy reels so people would still feel they were scoring millions of points. Looks like our friend Vic had a Gun Club at one time.
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:Half a dozen broken wires from old solder joints,replaced some light sockets, needed 6 coils and had a couple feedback shorts
Amazing that thing worked at all when you got it!
Quoted from EM-PINMAN:Backglass touched up and sealed.
Nice job with the touchups. i can hardly tell.
Is there not a tag with the proper hookups? I could have sworn I already set it up for replay scores. Could have been another, but I do it on all of them. 
Never mind, I just saw your edit.
Quoted from presqueisle:My first Williams woodrail, 1957 Jig Saw. Looks pretty as all can be.
Nice! Makes a lot of racket too, doesn't it? I love the smell of 50 volt coils in the morning. 
Quoted from Shapeshifter:How did you find that?! Great find.
It just showed up last night. Came from the EM and woodrail superstore. These impulse flippers have a lot of power. The whole machine does. And it's amazingly addictive to play. My legs gave out by the time I was done last night.
I'm rating this 1957 Arrow Head pretty high in game play right now. It's got a neat layout that allows some decent ball times and a lot of fun. The playfield is not perfect, but I may never see another one of these in my lifetime so I'm not complaining. It's got a kicker between the flippers that shoots up at the center gobble hole, but with nudging you can get it to avoid it unless it is lit where you may want it. It is also neat that it keeps track of balls played on the backglass. Plenty of flipper and playfield power on this 50 volt game. I had to check it for high tap, but no it's not.
Quoted from jrpinball:I wouldn't complain about that playfield. Of the few of these games I've ever seen, the others have had much worse wear. You're lucky.
It was touched up a bit. By an expert though. It would have been too big a job to do the whole thing. I'm just loving the flow and gameplay on it, and it's a good looker.
I've won a few games from points and a few from specials, but am still waiting for that glorious moment when I can sink the ball into the lit gobble hole and hear that loud knocker rattle off five times in a row, maybe more.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:For me there are so many great titles to choose from, especially in the 1952 - 1955 era.
And this is one of them. It has to be one of the funnest and most addicting pinball machines I've ever played. After a few days of tuning, tweaking and adding a third bell ( 
), I've been playing the heck out of it and can't stop!
Otaku was correct that one of the reels has a different font that must have come out of another reel game from this short run so I will be on the lookout for the correct one, but am happy it is otherwise complete and fully working. The reels are pretty much the same as what came later but without an end of stroke switch for the relay.
The advantage of impulse flippers was that they were able to use more powerful coils than the single wound that were used in other machines like the Lady Robin Hood sitting next to it. A year or two later Williams went with a flipper system nearly identical to Gottliebs beyond the links and 50 volt coils. But a few years later when Gottlieb went to score reels, they were very similar to these.
Getting it working correctly was a challenge in itself. But now it's rockin' and rollin'. They ran the score reel and number bumper relays in series so the resistance of each has to be just right.
You can win with laps, points, or the lower rollover special. None of which are easy. But the main attraction of this game is hitting the numbered bumpers in order to light the top special. I guess if you can do that then you might get it too. Who put the six and seven there? I'm still working on getting five.
The slings, pops, and kickout holes, along with the flippers provide plenty of playfield action. It's not a 50 volt machine. It measures 54 going out of the transformer. The high tap lug measures 60. I don' t think I need to go there.
I just need to figure out how to get the six and the seven. A very tight shot up the middle off the upper pop bumper might do it.
Quoted from presqueisle:Yeah take the glass off and make a video of it!
That's going to take some serious manipulating there.
According to IPDB-
Star Feature —
This term was used by Williams to describe a coining feature on four of their pin games made during 1954-1955. After the player deposits a coin to start the 5-ball game, an insert illuminates on the lower apron to alert the player to the availability of this feature. Optionally depositing a second coin before shooting the first ball activates the feature. Then, each time a ball leaves the playfield, one or two numbers from "00" to "90" light up on the backglass. Should either number match the first two digits in scores of 10,000 to 90,000, the first of five Stars lights on the backglass. Matching numbers a second time lights two Stars for 5 replays. Up to 200 replays can be earned if this occurs five times, lighting all five stars.
If the player does not deposit the second coin, then the play is a conventional 5-ball game that still awards replays for high scores.
Notice that this feature compares the "end-of-ball match number(s)" to the first digits of the score. This coining feature is not to be confused with the more familiar end-of-game match number that compares to the last digits of the final score and that had begun to appear on Williams games in 1955. Games with the Star feature did not have the end-of-game number match feature.
3 weeks later
On Frontiersman if you lite a row of the same color insert it lites the gobble hole for extra special and advances one flaming arrow on the backglass. If you lite any red #4 insert, the gobble hole gives a special for each one. All reds lites extra special for ten replays.
But you've got to make the putt.
Nope. That is one neighborhood I'll never be able to afford. The pins maybe, but not the house. Nice place to visit though.
Quoted from SteveinTexas:Get it!
It would probably be easier to get one of those reverse mortgages on my house.
The cabinet on that Jungle doesn't look too bad. But I guess if he wants it painted, you are the man for the job.
Quoted from boilerman:i think he wants all 3 to look the same (restored)
Perhaps he liked the two for one shipping deal.
2 months later
Quoted from o-din:I still can't help but wonder what happened to those monkeys that got sent into space.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:Is there any video of gameplay on this? Stunning Game!! Drooool.......
I don't have a video recorder, just a piss poor camera and no you-tube account or I would probably have videos of them all. However a friend might be stopping by with his super video setup this weekend and if he does, I'll make sure we get this one on there.
You really havn't played a woodrail until you've fired up one of these 50 volt Williams gems. They are powerful and they do play fast. Make a heck of a lot of noise too.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Playing Diamond Lill which has one of the nicest EM lightshows of any game out there. Tough game, shooting the loops. It was the Theatre of Magic of the 50's!
I had to pass on an opportunity to own a nice Diamond Lill. I enjoyed playing it a few times, but the loop seemed more of a novelty and once the ball got inside with the lit pop bumper, I could just walk away while it cranked up points and credits. Maybe it was how it was set up, but I found better players to choose from.
I'd play it again though, given the opportunity.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Amazing how each game is different and how set up makes all the difference. Mine is super hard to win a replay. Wish it were easier!
Setup makes all the difference and I did consider going back and getting it.
I'm still trying to find that one Gottlieb that outplays Frontiersman, and that's a tall task. There aren't many machines here that get as much play as Frontiersman. I guess I should be satisfied with that.
Quoted from bingopodcast:When I interviewed Gordon Hasse, he said his favorite was Frontiersman, and the game that kept pulling him back. You might have a very tall task!
I've had a chance to play as many as I can now, but it's kind of funny looking back as I had never played Frontiersman before I got it, but liked the look and layout from the pictures so it was very high on my short list of woodrails to buy.
It hasn't disappointed either and is actually a better player than I thought. It's the whole package all in one machine. Great art, many ways to win, but most of all a near perfect layout to play.
Without playability, they are just eye candy. And I don't have the the room or money for that. Although it would be nice.
Some playability grows on you, some are great right off the bat. So it can be hard to tell which to buy, or which to keep unless you give them enough time.
I've put a few games up for sale in the past that didn't sell right away, and later I'm glad they didn't. But I'm not thinking of too many I did sell that I would want back. I guess there are enough choices to please everybody's tastes.
Quoted from JKnPA:Why does everyone worry about scores ?
Rapid fire knocking has a certain charm about it.
2 weeks later
Quoted from presqueisle:'New' to me. Gottlieb's 1953 Quintette, in very nice original condition.
Looks nice. I wonder if that was a sequel to 1952's Quartette.
2 months later
3 months later
Quoted from Mopar:I have a few woodrails including a 1956 4 Player Williams "Fun House" , maybe something to put time in..
I'd put some time into it. Kinda been looking for one of those for some time.
1 year later
Quoted from o-din:If anything this Kings needs me to get off the interwebs and finish restorin'.
Two years later...lol
DSCN5907 (resized).JPGDSCN5908 (resized).JPGQuoted from pinwiztom:That is where all the action and drinking happens.
And then some!
Lets just say I decided it was time to get all my ducks in a row, so to speak. I've been through who knows how many, now not looking to buy anymore, and these are the keepers.
1 year later
I had both Kings and Satellite. Wanted to have them all for a while. Both of those are good playing games. Very snappy.
$500 for Satellite is beyond a steal. Super rare.
For reference the Satellite I had cost well into the 1000s. The market for woodrails may not be as hot as it once was, but it is a very special machine in that regards. Rare space theme with light animated monkeys in Sputniks on the backglass.
Only reason I didn't keep it is it was too much money involved, so I sold it back to whom I bought it from.
Quoted from mrm_4:That is sexy as hell o-din !!!
Yeah man! It certainly does stand out. Rare as hen's teeth from what I can tell.
I'm too embarrassed to say what it really cost, but I was dealing with a guy willing to buy it back, so I wasn't really worried that much.
But $500 with a Shay backglass that cost $300 is a no brainer for someone in that part of the country.
There was a time not long ago where I would have already made arrangements for STI to pick it up.
But Homey don't play that game anymore.
The pic is rather grainy, but if that is the only serious wear, that would be super easy to touch up.
2 weeks later
Quoted from cait001:this game is tonnes of fun. Still haven't gotten to the final all-specials sequence yet.
They had some interesting ways to implement replays.
On my 1959 Williams Rocket, there is no ingame special. Instead, besides the usual point based replays, it awards replays after the game is over depending on how many Rockets on the backglass you have lit up in a row, from three in a row to all seven. I've done seven once in the five plus years I have owned the game.
That Regatta is a very good looking machine.
3 weeks later
Quoted from DCRand:Twenty Grand update, almost finished. Waiting for 1 part from PBR to get 100k bell working. Other than that pf touch ups done. Steppers all degunked, electrical problems all fixed, legs refinished, pf metal cleaned and polished. Game also has original coin box, schematics, back box cover, score cards. Looking still for Pf apron cover paper.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Not sure how enthused you are, but up until at least a few months ago, this was still available.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-twenty-grand-backglass
1 month later
Quoted from Mopar:but my considerations are Williams
Sea Wolf, Gusher, Nags, 1956 Fun House, Gottleb Rocket Ship, Bally Balls-a-Poppin.
I have a few others, but pretty sure these are my best choices. Any suggestions?
I have played all of those except Fun House. For me the novelty of the disappearing pop bumper on Sea Wolf and Gusher and turntable on Nags is not enough to compete with the great players Williams Rocket and Arrow Head. Those are the two I kept along with GTB Frontiersman and for a multiplayer WMS Serenade.
Those are my keepers that never get old to play and get played a lot. And I've had a bunch.
If I had a Balls A Poppin, I'd probably keep that one too.
Quoted from Mopar:And in 1958/59, machines sure went up quickly!
Not sure, but that might be a list of used games for sale at the time, some in better condition than others.
Quoted from Mopar:If Gottlieb convinced the State Officials back in the 50s that getting a
free ball was not a form of gambling, I'm sure I'd have a couple strings
of woodrails along a couple of the walls..
Well, no bulb scoring and not the 50s, but this might be the game for you. I had one, albeit not a woodrail, and although it played kinda slow, it was fun and had great implementation of the add a ball.
Backglass (resized).jpg
Quoted from Mopar:I have a couple of the metal rail Flippers also, one nice, one
in need of a playfield if there happens to be a playfield around..
You hoarder you!
Mine stuck around for quite a while. I had to thin the herd and somebody else wanted it, so I let it go. There have been many like that. But I can't see Rocket or Arrow Head leaving. Just something about that fast play that suits me. Not for everybody perhaps. All my garage games but two are 50 volt WMS now.
6 months later
Quoted from Silverstreak02:I hope to find a Rocket some day.
I could use a Detroit Locker and some solid one piece axles for my Jeep.
Quoted from mrm_4:Someone just listed one, price seems steep....
I'll say! And my playfield is way nicer than that one.
Quoted from jaytrem:Would you take $3500 for yours?
Sure. That would pay for Detroit Lockers in both axles. And then some!
Quoted from jrpinball:Yeah, but I have the original deep blue backglass! Shay wanted to borrow mine to make a repro, but I told him to just make all the light blue areas deep blue.
Yep, you are the reason I couldn't get a light blue one from him. lol. But, turns out this one is perfect, and as far as the light blue, out of sight, out of mind now.
1 month later
Quoted from aahgo:All of the oranges have faded to yellow, look in the girls' hair as well - no more highlights.
The dead giveaway is in the scoring numbers. They would never use two yellows in a row.
3 years later
Quoted from AlexF:Backglass is toast. Has anyone ever redrawn this title.
I imagine just like Surf Rider, coming right up!
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider o-din.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
