I had thought that all pre-1955 or so Williams machines had impulse flippers and so I was surprised when I recently started working on a 1952 Williams 8 Ball and saw that its flippers are not impulse flippers. There is an EOS switch that causes the circuit to the flipper coil to be completed through a "safety coil" that apparently reduces current to the flipper coil so that the flippers can be held. The flippers though are activated through a single flipper coil and so each flipper button causes both flippers to move.

Here's the circuit in the schematic:
IMG_3545 (resized).jpg
Here's the flipper coil, EOS switch, etc.:
IMG_3543 (resized).JPG
Here's the "safety coil":
IMG_3544 (resized).jpg
Does anyone know of other pre-1955 Williams machines without impulse flippers and a flipper setup like this?

Excellent. Someone (Harry Williams?) figured out how to hold a flipper up presumably before three lug, dual winding flipper coils were available. I wonder who figured this out first.

/Mark

Looking through some old schematics I found:

12/51 Williams Horse Shoes (a Harry Williams design) used what looks like two separate coils:
Horse Shoes flipper coil (resized).jpg

3/52 Genco Springtime used what looks like a dual winding flipper coil:
Springtime flipper coil (resized).jpg

5/52 Williams Olympics (a Harry Mabs design) used a single winding flipper coil: (Maybe Harry liked impulse flippers?)
Olympics flipper coil (resized).jpg

But way back in 11/49 Gottlieb K.C. Jones used dual winding flipper coils:
KC Jones flippers (resized).jpg

Incredible. What a great snapshot in the timeline of advancements.

That's one of the odd things with the "safety coil" circuit--why not just use a coil with dual windings?

I think this was the answer above:

"Someone (Harry Williams?) figured out how to hold a flipper up presumably before three lug, dual winding flipper coils were available."

There could be a number of reasons. Part availability, cost, wanting to get rid of excess stock, etc. My 1957 Williams Jig Saw has dual winding coils, so they didn't stick with the safety coil for long. My guess is that they wanted to use up their stock of single winding coils before switching to dual winding coils.

EDIT:

To piggyback off this post, does anyone know who to contact in order to get a game added to the database? I have a woodrail that's not in the database. I've tried contacting a moderator but I've heard nothing but crickets.

I'm pretty sure way2wyrd can do that for you. He got a prewar added for me.

I don’t know the proper way, but I sent a few messages (to add machines) directly to Robin.

But MarkG also mentioned the following (that dual wounds were already around):

I like the idea from bdw85 that Williams may have been using parts on hand or available parts when they applied the "safety coil" to the flippers coil circuit (instead of using a dual wound coil). But after playing several games of 8 Ball today (for the first time after having recently gotten it up and running), I was impressed by the strength of the flippers (which are much stronger than flippers on Gottliebs from the same era with the A-1546 dual wound coils). Perhaps Williams wanted to continue using their impulse flipper coils (A-27 850) with a "safety coil" because they make the flippers so much stronger than they would be with dual wound ones.

And after looking at bottoms of playfields of Williams machines on ipdb, it appears that only Horseshoes (12/51) and 8 Ball (2/52) used this "safety coil" circuit to enable flippers to be held. Earlier games and later games until 1955 or so seem to have all used impulse flippers.

Does anyone have a Chicago Coin machine from the mid to late 1940s or early 1950s and can inform me about how the hot wire leads are connected? I've tried examining photos of cabinets of various machines on ipdb but nothing is good enough to show this.

The Crazy Ball machine (1948) that I am working on has two wires that are simply soldered to other wires. One is the hot wire from the electrical cord (bottom one in photo below) and the other (top one in photo) is a hot wire (coming from the fuse and through the jones plug) that leads to a rear outlet (that is used for a 110V lamp bulb in the backbox). I am not sure if this is how these came originally or if this represents a wiring hack (the machine has a switch installed inline with the hot wire lead and so it could be a hack).

Thanks for any help!
IMG_3667 (resized).jpg
The smaller transformer is used to power the motor of the spinning bumper.

I played two Williams woodies for the first time last Thursday.
Both are excellent players, and are great looking games.

20230316_132808 (resized).jpg

20230316_141213 (resized).jpg

Love seeing these games. There’s got to be one more out there for me?

New backglass looks beautiful! Thanks bgresto!

1682026908228332726610782190896 (resized).jpg

Looks great. Waiting on one from bgresto. It's been three months but his work is worth waiting for.

Yes! Very nice..

So my buddy fell in way, way too deep on a 1952 Gottlieb Skill Pool. I picked up all the parts today with the intent of getting it sold for him, preferably without having to try to figure out how to work on it to restore it myself.

Here's what he has:

-Lower cab with decent playfield, shipped in from California. Plastics are bad, playfield is decent (could use a few touchups), pool balls are good/decent. Cab needs repainted.
-Backbox, decent paint. One piece on top needs to be repaired. Obviously if the California lower cab was repainted, the head probably would be also.
-Original lower cab in ROUGH shape. Sides aren't bad, but I'm not sure if those could somehow be hodge-podged in to replace the sides that were repainted on the California cab.
-Two extra playfields. Bad plastics on both. Appear to be fully intact except one is missing the pool balls.
-A BUNCH of extra parts (I've not inventoried them at all yet)
-New shooter lane stuff
-New BGResto backglass
-New Pinball Rescue plastics
-One set of legs

He's into this for *gag* around $2500. He knows he's going to take a bath unloading it but I don't really work on EMs and he just doesn't have the time to mess with anything. If he's looking at less than $1000 (especially if far, far less than that) I guess I'm going to have to learn how to get one of these going. Does he have even a snowball's chance in hell of hitting four figures with everything that's here? Looks like a cool game but I'm about as overwhelmed as he is (and I don't work on EMs typically). Unloading it makes the most sense, if there's any money to recoup. I have no idea if it powers on, if it does anything, etc. It's still sitting in my trailer right now. I'll probably pull it out and see what I'm working with here in the next few days.

20230422_112924 (resized).jpg

20230422_112929 (resized).jpg

20230422_112938 (resized).jpg

20230422_112943 (resized).jpg

20230422_112948 (resized).jpg

20230422_112953 (resized).jpg

20230422_112957 (resized).jpg

20230422_113005 (resized).jpg

20230422_113019 (resized).jpg

20230422_113024 (resized).jpg

20230422_113041 (resized).jpg

20230422_113247 (resized).jpg

20230422_115522 (resized).jpg

Yikes! Big, big project. Hopefully you find someone with the resources and dedication to get one working game out of that mess.
Man, I don't know. Maybe tops, around $600 or so for everything there for anyone brave enough to take it on, and that's mostly because of the new parts and backglass included.

Yeah, kind of what I figured. The new stuff is obviously desirable but most of the other stuff... woof. Lots of work.

I think I'm going to have to just take it on at this point. Strip down the one absolutely heinous playfield and organize parts. Put the balls on the so-so playfield. Get it working. Then reassess and see where it goes from there. Most likely, all the way to the finish line (restain wood, paint cab, etc) if I've already done that. Bleh.

I don't know what is wrong with me but that looks like a kinda fun project if I knew it powered up and wiring was there.

Whoever takes it on is going to end up with a cool game but will need to take a bath on the project, too.

I see the potential but definitely a lot of work. I'll pull it out of the trailer here in the next week or two, hook it all up, and see where I'm at on it. I think the wiring is good on the playfield inside the cab he shipped in from California which is a good starting point. Unfortunately he made a lot of bad money decisions on this but it is what it is. I'll feel a lot better if I can get something working without too much of a headache. I'll have a lot of learning to do though because I know NOTHING about these, and very little about EMs in general.

The 'polishing' aspects, after I have it working, are far less daunting to me. Paint, woodworking, etc. I can either do them or I have really good connections that can. This absolutely could be a beautiful finished project with the right attention paid to it, IMO.

Probably a literal bath every time they touch it, too! Yeeeesh.

LOL

I'd like to strip down the one really nasty playfield, quickly, so that can go on my burn pile. It's nasty.

agree 100% if that was anywhere in australia i would be buying that to fully restore.

I've kind of wanted a cool woodrail to over-the-top restore for a while, I guess this is my opportunity. My friend won't let me give him anything for it, and tbh he probably wouldn't have accepted anything from a sale either (I'd have found a nice place to hide it in his shop)..

I don't know if I'm glad it won't bring any real money or not but I do think it's a cool-looking woody, at least.

Was thinking on the same lines, 600 looks like a real generous estimate on that... you are talking hundreds of hours building one decent game out of that.

Guess it depends on how well it goes when I pair the good head up with the good lower cab and playfield. The other two playfields and the other lower cab all look atrocious but they're just extras that can be used in some way, or not. Eliminate those from your head and imo this looks a lot nicer. But yeah, I would assume at best the new parts (glass, plastics) hold real value. The rest..pretty hard sell. It'll probably mess with it this week to see where I'm at on it. Maybe tomorrow.

Alright, so I unloaded the Skill Pool from my trailer today. The original cabinet essentially fell apart so I carefully placed the side pieces (both L/R and front and back), which are all solid..but separate from one another..in the bed of my truck. The transformer and bottom piece are on the tailgate. Half of the wires are chewed by mice. It's bad. Realistically, I'm not sure why my buddy didn't run away right there (bad glass, mice-eaten wires, cab that's hanging by a thread)...but I digress. Sounds like it had the better of the two loose playfields (the one that actually has art, but is lifted up and I can't see it being any more than a wall-hanger at this point) but was missing the pool balls. Loose playfield #2 came along to provide the balls. Then he must have realized he was completely and utterly screwed with the condition of the cab he had / wiring on it and paid to have the California lower cab shipped to Kansas. It looks clean, un-chewed. The playfield inside looks good too, aside from the roached plastics which he got replaced from Pinball Rescue.

So...long path to get there, I think he bought all the components to have a functional game without too much issue. It's prepped in my shop, ready to have legs installed and everything plugged in. I'll probably try to do that later on if I can get back to it. Then I'll start stripping crummy playfields for parts so they don't have to eat up space in my shop. I feel better about it now than I did in his shop, at least. That said, I fully expect this to be a project that takes me several years to FULLY complete (new paint, clearcoat, etc). I'm hoping I can make it function in the much shorter-term, however.

20230424_102209 (resized).jpg

20230424_102217 (resized).jpg

20230424_102229 (resized).jpg

20230424_120651 (resized).jpg

Agree.

I have seen beautiful originals sell over the years for $1000 - 2000, and they were pristine.

Still, the main thing is to enjoy the restoration process as it will be well over 100 hours.

Going to need a restoration thread on this one...

Eh, maybe. I'm hesitant to start one *right now* because it's entirely possible that I completely bomb this straight out of the gates -- I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing with this and will need to do all kinds of research just to get it working. Assuming I can do that, then I agree: restore thread time. I put it on legs and plugged it in, but got no signs of life (fuses good, incoming voltage good, etc). But my door is generally in pretty bad condition. Not sure if *that's* it or it's that plus ten other things. I've got a long ways to go before any sort of restoration is even a possibility.

Also, just a general vibe I'm seeming to pick up on but is it 100% frowned upon to repaint cabs, touch up/clear playfields, etc? Or is it just a matter of preference? I figure since I don't really have much in the way of "originality" to preserve (maybe on the playfield, but definitely not on the cab or backglass) then it's just...whatever. I was aiming for making it look like it did in 1952 -- patina straight out the window.

This is a matter of preference and depends on what you want to get out of the machine (in terms of your enjoyment and satisfaction). It seems that you'll be bringing this back from the grave more or less and so whatever you do is up to you.

I don't have this machine but Skill-Pool should have a coin chute and usually only machines of this era with coin slides have a coil/relay on the door. And then the relay is only used to allow the slide to be pressed in when replays are available and wouldn't affect other circuits.

Chances are that the transformer is good and so if you really want to see what works before you start working on it and can find the HOLD relay on the motor board in the cab (usually labeled "R" if I remember right), carefully (the switch on the relay carries 120 V!) manually engage this relay and this should close the 120 V circuit to the transformer which should complete circuits to lites, etc. But then the steppers are likely gummed up and so you might want to work on figuring out how to clean them up and then doing that before trying to test additional startup and scoring routines, etc. I usually work on all components before even plugging in a machine like this to make sure that additional problems don't arise (e.g., burning out a coil) because of stuck steppers, etc.

Good luck--look forward to hearing about it!

You caught me before I edited lol. I thought I read about a coil being on the door but then I was looking at reference pics (admittedly a different machine I think) and didn't see one..and felt dumb, so I deleted that. Thanks for the direction, I'll see where that takes me. The steppers in the head are definitely rough. I may be in far better shape with everything that's in the lower cab but the mechs in the head will need LOTS of elbow grease for sure.

If there isn't much to save then you might as well go newer. I have cabs that are in decent shape and will keep their patina. Other cabs were flaking when you looked at them. Straight original repaint with no effort to try to make them look aged at that point. IMO, if the plastics are bright and new you'll want the playfield to match.

I agree, go newer not much original here to save.

I have a working Gottlieb lightening ball ( includes a second parts game) for sale in Maine. Could make a fun light project for someone in the group.

SOLD!

Machine - For Sale

Lightning Ball - Two games for the price of one! Archived

Used - shows wear but 100% working and clean - “This listing is for both lightening balls (you must take both). I acquired both to restore one into a collector quality game, and the second as a players. The primary game has a...”

2023-04-18

Pulteney, NY

BeachPickle

850 (Firm)

Archived after: 19 days

Viewed: 339 times

Status: Sold for $ 850

Contributed to Pinside

That's remarkable indeed! Never seen this type of ''end of stroke'' design in such an early Williams game.

Let the pre-work begin. Two playfields to strip of parts and then organize..Hopefully.

received_242827351692401 (resized).jpeg

20230608_143211 (resized).jpg

received_3470041553283597 (resized).jpeg

Please tell me this will get its own thread.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1952-gottlieb-skill-pool-rescue-restore

Yep! Figured it was time. Realistically it was probably overdue but I've been dragging my ass on even starting with it up until now.

Woodrail in the wild! Currently in the UK and saw this Universe through the front window of a men’s clothing store. Played a couple of games after chatting with the store attendant. Apparently this particular game was being played in the background of one of the scenes of The Theory of Everything, the movie about Stephen Hawking…gotta check that out. (Has anyone who’s watched the movie noticed that? Appropriate title for sure!)

A96BF2AD-E4A6-4206-88B9-B9AC128F7319 (resized).jpeg

Last week I had the pleasure of visiting the Paris Pinball Museum. There I view and played so many wood rails and had a blast. The museum is made up of mostly wood rails, I would guest at least 75%.

I thought I would share the 18 videos I made of almost all the games close up and detailed of these totally restored machines.

Here below is a link to my YouTube page of video number one. You might have to search on my Vic Camp Pinball YouTube page to view the other 17 videos of this awesome museum.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-in-movies-or-tv-shows-name-a-game-you-have-seen-in-the-background/page/5#post-2247474

Cool! Thanks for digging that up, @flipsteen!

Too bad you never had the pleasure of meeting Rapheal Lankar
the owner of the Museum before he passed last year,
he was a great host

I heard good things about Rapheal and would have liked to meet him and talk pinball with him. His son was there all day but really didn’t talk at all. Bruno was very nice and was willing to talk about the games in detail, but so busy with repairs on games that needed attention it actually was taking a toll on him towards the end of the day. I asked Bruno if I could help him out by making a detailed list of things that were not operating correctly as I went along playing the games in the museum and he said yes. He gave me a blank piece of paper and I wrote what I found. Below are some pictures my wife took so I thought I would posted them. Even though the Williams A Go Go is not obviously a wood rail, I threw in there because it’s one of my wife’s favorite games, which I once had in my collection, but sold a long time ago.

1D121ADF-C7DE-4905-A348-770251704908 (resized).jpeg1EF803BE-9FEB-40DA-A2A0-2DCED4276900 (resized).jpeg

4F17BD6B-BEEB-4C17-8694-5BFBF8DA51BF (resized).jpeg

A10CCCEA-E6D0-4462-8F77-702C9C78B033 (resized).jpeg

Love finding games like this in the wild. Great photo.