Quoted from jaytrem:Can somebody identify the woodrail please...
https://www.estatesales.net/NJ/Saddle-Brook/07663/2843361
Thanks!
Blue Skies, United, 1948
https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=332
(Topic ID: 127724)
Linked Games
Grand Champion
Williams, 1953
Topic Gallery
Salem, OR
Quoted from DHVincent:I'm looking for a Frontiersman. Complete or otherwise, any condition. Thanks!
I know someone in MN that is selling one if you're interested in it.
Quoted from ReadyPO:Blue Skies, United, 1948
https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=332
Quoted from pinwiztom:United Blue skies
[quoted image]
Damn, too slow and new page threw me off
Thanks guys, would be more tempting if I had some room.
Hi all,
I picked up a 1958 Gottlieb Crisscross a while ago and discovered multiple hacks to undo.
I need a decent pick of the score motor wiring and also under the PF, a good pick of the bank unit, specifically, the wiring of the game over relay.
So if any of you guys happen to have this game, it would be much appreciated.
Quoted from NoQuarters:Looking awesome so far !
Thanks
2 weeks later
Did any manufacturers use red painted wooden legs?
I picked up a 1954 Gottlieb Jockey Club with red legs and the previous owner has had the machine since 1963 and never did anything to it (aside from taping a sheet of paper on the lower left of the backglass to cover the “risqué” images of women—sadly I wasn’t able to get a photo of this as the sheet had been removed recently) and so I’m pretty sure he never painted them or had them painted. I assume this machine came with unpainted legs and so I am not sure if the red legs on it now were originally on a different machine or if a previous owner simply painted them. Just curious...
Quoted from jrpinball:Some Williams woodrails had red wooden legs for sure.
Interesting—thanks! I believe I recall that Williams’ legs have different dimensions than Gottlieb ones. I haven’t measured the red legs or compared them to other Gottlieb legs or the spare set of Williams legs I have, but will soon. If I know my leg levelers as well as I think I do, I think I remember that one of the red legs has a Williams style leveler while the other three seem to be the Gottlieb type.
Quoted from tfduda:Did any manufacturers use red painted wooden legs?
I picked up a 1954 Gottlieb Jockey Club with red legs and the previous owner has had the machine since 1963 and never did anything to it (aside from taping a sheet of paper on the lower left of the backglass to cover the “risqué” images of women—sadly I wasn’t able to get a photo of this as the sheet had been removed recently) and so I’m pretty sure he never painted them or had them painted. I assume this machine came with unpainted legs and so I am not sure if the red legs on it now were originally on a different machine or if a previous owner simply painted them. Just curious...
My Jockey club and both of my Mystic Marvels came with red legs. I too am not certain if they are original or just a coincidence.
Quoted from tfduda:I haven’t measured the red legs or compared them to other Gottlieb legs or the spare set of Williams legs I have, but will soon.
The red legs are similar in dimensions to other Gottlieb ones I have.
Quoted from undrdog:Wms Hi-hand is a woodrail with red legs, but they are metal. Matches the flyer.
On the topic of metal legs, what about Gottlieb’s metal legs on woodrails? I’ve seen red ones on some 1955 and 1956 machines (e.g., Harbor Lites and Score-Board) and off-white (or almond) ones on later machines (and believe that Steve has had reproduction white ones for sale at pbresource). I assume then that metal legs on Gottlieb machines were first painted red and then later painted off-white. Is this correct?
Back to red wooden legs...
The four red legs on the Jockey Club are not all the same. One is 30-5/16” tall (others are 31”), but with similar dimensions otherwise as others (and luckily bolt holes are at same height). Paint looks different in photo on this one, but I assume this is because I only have wiped this one down so far.
78F70747-0922-41F3-94C1-27F83A70891B (resized).jpeg
The short one also has a different t-nut (with nails and not countersunk into bottom of leg) and with a William’s style (?) leg leveler.
9277317E-7594-44CA-BC80-724AB7F79F86 (resized).jpeg
This leg leveler and one other one has red paint on top. Others don’t and other two also have different style (square) nut on them.
1D6F7C78-94C9-4FE6-A001-F415F2A633BA (resized).jpeg
Seems that this is a random set of legs in which two were painted with levelers on them. I assume the short one came from a Williams machine, but this is a guess.
Quoted from PinballFever:Both of my 1953 Williams Grand Champions have red legs. I've seen blue legs on Grand Champions too.
I bought new levelers and mounting plates from PBR too.
[quoted image]
Save those old original levelers!
As far as I am aware GTB never painted their wooden legs and they were always 31 inches.
I have had games that come with Bingo legs, Williams legs and United........ had to then track down correct GTB ones.
GTB metal legs from 1955 - they were the non-ribbed variety.
Red ones were only on games for a year or two.
Flyers are a good pointer for correct legs.
See Auto-Race 1956. Non-ribbed red legs.
112f1 (resized).jpgQuoted from Shapeshifter:As far as I am aware GTB never painted their wooden legs and they were always 31 inches.
I assume the same--maybe it was just something operators did back in the day to make their machines stand out.
I also just noticed that on the cabinet of Jockey Club there's a tad bit of red overspray on it around where the legs were. It's not a ton (and much less than I would have done if I had painted the legs with them on the cabinet!), but just enough to suggest that the legs weren't painted by Gottlieb (unless, I suppose, they were just touched up at some point and that was the source of the minor overspray).
Quoted from PinballFever:Both of my 1953 Williams Grand Champions have red legs. I've seen blue legs on Grand Champions too.
I bought new levelers and mounting plates from PBR too.
[quoted image]
The other thing I noticed after seeing PinballFever's legs from Williams Grand Champion (which has countersunk t-nuts) is that the one slightly smaller leg that I have with the Williams style leg leveler and t-nut with nails (that isn't countersunk on my leg) looks to have been poorly cut on the bottom (but they didn't countersink the t-nut!)--can kind of see the uneven cut job in the photo I posted earlier. I had assumed that Williams' legs were longer than Gottlieb ones (~32.5" if I remember right) and didn't think they made shorter ones (like the one that measures less than 31" that I have)--the poor cut job at least suggests that someone trimmed a 32.5" Williams leg to make it work with three other Gottlieb legs.
I have a spare set of Williams legs that I have been considering cutting to put on a Gottlieb that has legs on it that are too short (and no matter how much I try to stretch them, they just won't stretch!), but I have been reluctant to cut them given my worry that as soon as I do, I'll come across a Williams machine in need of legs.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:GTB metal legs from 1955 - they were the non-ribbed variety.
Red ones were only on games for a year or two.
Thanks!
My Spot Bowler came with blue legs, and a blue cabinet. Under the blue on the legs, was a coat of red. Pretty sure both leg colors were painted after manufacture. They are now back to a nice natural wood. (And the cabinet is down to the original art).
Quoted from tfduda:I assume the same--maybe it was just something operators did back in the day to make their machines stand out.
I also just noticed that on the cabinet of Jockey Club there's a tad bit of red overspray on it around where the legs were. It's not a ton (and much less than I would have done if I had painted the legs with them on the cabinet!), but just enough to suggest that the legs weren't painted by Gottlieb (unless, I suppose, they were just touched up at some point and that was the source of the minor overspray).The other thing I noticed after seeing PinballFever's legs from Williams Grand Champion (which has countersunk t-nuts) is that the one slightly smaller leg that I have with the Williams style leg leveler and t-nut with nails (that isn't countersunk on my leg) looks to have been poorly cut on the bottom (but they didn't countersink the t-nut!)--can kind of see the uneven cut job in the photo I posted earlier. I had assumed that Williams' legs were longer than Gottlieb ones (~32.5" if I remember right) and didn't think they made shorter ones (like the one that measures less than 31" that I have)--the poor cut job at least suggests that someone trimmed a 32.5" Williams leg to make it work with three other Gottlieb legs.
I have a spare set of Williams legs that I have been considering cutting to put on a Gottlieb that has legs on it that are too short (and no matter how much I try to stretch them, they just won't stretch!), but I have been reluctant to cut them given my worry that as soon as I do, I'll come across a Williams machine in need of legs.Thanks!
One of the sets I had were 33 inches - operators didn't care what legs went on the games so guessing many got mixed up over the years.
For what its worth, 1947 Bally Rocket had Blue painted legs
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-rocket-flipperless-restoration/page/3#post-5037617
Woodrail thread is hot these days!
Anybody know what color Williams Kings should have? A previous owner put wooden ones on it. They look like they might have been black on ipdb, but maybe could have been a matching blue. Did they do that a lot? Thanks!
I am in the process of restoring a GTB 1956 Auto Race and currently servicing the motor board. There is a missing label positioned as per pics. If anyone has a pic of the label would really appreciate a post. Thks.
canon14052021 004 (resized).JPG
canon14052021 003 (resized).JPG
canon14052021 002 (resized).JPG
I also note a marking 'T Malarkey Interior' on the end of the motor board. Was this guy a cabinet maker for Gottlieb?
Quoted from wayner:I also note a marking 'T Malarkey Interior' on the end of the motor board
Malarkey was the plywood mfg., interior grade
image (resized).jpegQuoted from PinballFever:Both of my 1953 Williams Grand Champions have red legs. I've seen blue legs on Grand Champions too.
I bought new levelers and mounting plates from PBR too.
[quoted image]
Sexy Legs? Added new levelers to these...looked like they had been chewed on by a varmint but cleaned up nicely. (IMO)
IMG_1792 (resized).JPGIMG_1935 (resized).jpgIMG_1939 (resized).jpgQuoted from Nikrox2:Sexy Legs? Added new levelers to these...looked like they had been chewed on by a varmint but cleaned up nicely. (IMO)
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
That there is pretty damn sexy!
Quoted from Nikrox2:Sexy Legs? Added new levelers to these...looked like they had been chewed on by a varmint but cleaned up nicely. (IMO)
Looks great and they're a perfect match for the game.
Quoted from DCRand:My Spot Bowler came with blue legs, and a blue cabinet. Under the blue on the legs, was a coat of red. Pretty sure both leg colors were painted after manufacture. They are now back to a nice natural wood. (And the cabinet is down to the original art).
Were they blue inside the bolt holes? Mine were which is why I think they were factory painted red.
Quoted from PinballFever:Were they blue inside the bolt holes? Mine were which is why I think they were factory painted red.
Sorry, been so long I don't remember. when get a minute will pull a leg bolt and look.
Quoted from Nikrox2:Sexy Legs? Added new levelers to these...looked like they had been chewed on by a varmint but cleaned up nicely. (IMO)
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Very sexy legs. But a little disappointing what we consider sexy legs at our age. LOL
It may be hard to make out what it says (took me a while with the cabinet in front of me and someone tried to obscure some of the letters in “you”), but yes, someone scratched “FU” into the side of a Jockey Club cab. This is the same machine in which the previous owner taped over the images of the risqué women on the back glass—guess he didn’t look at the cabinet or maybe it was he who tried adding new scratch marks so it wasn’t so obvious what it says.
ED5B277C-8773-494F-92F4-9CEBB04A14D5 (resized).jpeg
B74CF34B-878F-42DB-92C3-42ADD925243C (resized).jpeg
D73C60DD-604B-4559-82B8-2C9730AC7964 (resized).jpeg
I have a few woodrails, but mostly 60s/70s machines.
Do you Guys have an opinion on Gottliebs 1950 Joker?
Once I get the other few woodrails set up, wondering
if Joker would be a nice piece for the line up..
Hi,
I had, but sold a few months ago, a nice original Joker. As some of you may know from my history, I am a fan of the 50's woodrails. Generally speaking, the early woodrails are slower and more "difficult" than the 60's/70's games to which you may be most familiar. The reverse flippers on some, including the Joker, takes some getting used to.
I set my tilt to very liberal and allow the games to be shaken. Part of the necessary strategy on these games is to be able to nudge them, and I have tilted a few games in my video attempts.
The Joker backglass is one of my favorite art glasses. I also have a nice repro glass from BG resto on my wall. In short, I would recommend the game!
Here's a brief video of game play from a few months ago:
Gottlieb Joker (resized).jpgGottlieb Joker (10) (resized).jpgGottlieb Joker (11) (resized).jpgGottlieb Joker (3) (resized).jpgGottlieb Joker (4) (resized).jpgGottlieb Joker (8) (resized).jpgGottlieb Joker (2) (resized).jpgGottlieb Joker (1) (resized).jpgGottlieb Joker (6) (resized).jpgGottlieb Joker (7) (resized).jpgGottlieb Joker (9) (resized).jpgIMG_7246 (resized).jpgQuoted from Mastkey:Hi all,
I picked up a 1958 Gottlieb Crisscross a while ago and discovered multiple hacks to undo.
I need a decent pick of the score motor wiring and also under the PF, a good pick of the bank unit, specifically, the wiring of the game over relay.
So if any of you guys happen to have this game, it would be much appreciated.
Sorry it took a while but here are those photos you requested for Gottlieb criss cross. hope this is helpful.
unnamed (resized).jpgunnamed-1 (resized).jpgunnamed-2 (resized).jpgunnamed-3 (resized).jpgunnamed-4 (resized).jpgunnamed-5 (resized).jpgunnamed-6 (resized).jpgQuoted from oldcarz:Hi,
I had, but sold a few months ago, a nice original Joker. As some of you may know from my history, I am a fan of the 50's woodrails. Generally speaking, the early woodrails are slower and more "difficult" than the 60's/70's games to which you may be most familiar. The reverse flippers on some, including the Joker, takes some getting used to.
I set my tilt to very liberal and allow the games to be shaken. Part of the necessary strategy on these games is to be able to nudge them, and I have tilted a few games in my video attempts.
The Joker backglass is one of my favorite art glasses. I also have a nice repro glass from BG resto on my wall. In short, I would recommend the game!
Here's a brief video of game play from a few months ago:
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Great vid and info thks. The bumpers and flippers pack quite a punch-were the original coils installed?
Quoted from oldcarz:I set my tilt to very liberal and allow the games to be shaken. Part of the necessary strategy on these games is to be able to nudge them, and I have tilted a few games in my video attempts.
I set my machines for nudging also. That's what EM pins are meant for. Even after flippers.
I'm mostly into metal rail, but EMs are Ems. The history in your Game Room. Would love to check
them out.
I have a chance to trade in a Joker. If in decent shape, in short, I'll be taking your advice..
Quoted from wayner:Great vid and info thks. The bumpers and flippers pack quite a punch-were the original coils installed?
Nope, I didn't modify the coils, but previous owner did. On my GENCO games, i needed to bypass the selenium rectifier with a solid state bridge to give those the punch necessary.
Hope all is well with you, mate.
IMG_7247 (resized).jpgQuoted from undrdog:oldcarz
My Wms 1957 Hi-Hand has stainless "plastics" for want of the correct term, very similar to those on Joker. Was that common for Woodrails across the manufacturers? Now I’m wondering if a prior owner put Gtb on Hi-Hand.
In the 50s the mixed in metal lite shields with the plastic ones...it was just what style they wanted for that particular game, but eventually they did stop using the metal lite shields. GTBs Derby Day is an example where they used both:
https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=664&picno=29218&zoom=1
Looking up Hi-Hand on ipdb it does seem like the metal ones are original...
Jockey Club is alive and has just a few minor kinks to work out. Machine cleaned up nice though it was loads of fun getting all of the inserts leveled (32 counting the rollover buttons). Aside from a new cord, ring kit and balls, only needed a shooter gauge (as old one broken and missing a few pieces), 100k bell coil, one of the flipper switches, and two red pop bumper skirts (to replace two blue ones).
E2C93A49-3D30-4788-B02B-2395076C9B83 (resized).jpeg
077507FA-65BA-4DBF-8D26-CCEFC1B652F9 (resized).jpeg
52E2456E-2D19-4932-AD10-74924B233291 (resized).jpeg
7FF6823C-DA39-4700-B24C-82BCF9808779 (resized).jpeg
71A247C3-086C-4D32-AD88-14DFE62B341F (resized).jpeg
E8A3F417-6045-4B2F-8D6D-DE413A756F07 (resized).jpeg
Had to replace the 100k bell coil as the brass sleeve was torn up and saw that it was replaced earlier. Price written on that coil is same as listed in the 1958 catalog. Same goes for the prices written on a few of the pop bumper skirts.
E3774E03-63BB-4810-A9AF-5AD7D8AAB3A3 (resized).jpeg
89798DCD-B27D-4D95-8AA5-87D8729D80BE (resized).jpeg
Everything in the backbox was super clean and stepper units were shiny and almost like new except for some carbon dust on them.
3AE3A879-2F88-4A57-B04C-193819E6DE50 (resized).jpeg
2 weeks later
Quoted from Murphdom:I figure I’d ask here too in case you guys don’t check out the EM seeking parts thread . Anyone have a spare blue tray liner for sale? Steve only has the green ones left. Otherwise I’m going to have to scan a green one and recreate it. Thank you.
[quoted image]
Did they say whether they were getting more? Hearing that kind of stuff always makes me nervous.
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