(Topic ID: 249691)

Wonka LE Sling Post Chipping in one month!!

By rs812

60 days ago

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  • Latest reply 17 days ago by Adipocere
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Topic index (key posts)

2 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #1403 Response from JJP from the Pinball Magazine podcast Posted by RobertWinter (48 days ago)

Post #1407 Transcribed response from JJP from the Pinball Magazine podcast Posted by RobertWinter (48 days ago)

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#77 59 days ago

Has anyone seen Panzerfreak? He is usually in all of the JJP threads but i don't think ive seen him in this one. Is he still on Pinside?

#78 59 days ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

I think any manufacturer would be susceptible to defects. It's how they handle it ( or not) determines ultimate credibility

JJP is offering to sell customers who have defective playfields a new unpopulated one at the great price of just $550.00 dollars I believe it is. No guarantee that it wont chip either of course. Its a win win situation for JJP.

#90 59 days ago
Quoted from JY64:

look on page 1

Yeah i know. I was just busting his balls.

#168 59 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

This is the real issue here. Not so much with the playfield manufacturer, rather JJP temporary workers line over tightening the posts etc too tight on a new and not fully cured playfield. Plus, when using thick clear-coat: full curing time needs to happen to allow PF to properly harden.
Every time the steel ball hits those posts, it rocks against the newly minted, not fully cured playfield and so begins the chipping, cracking and rippling. It wouldn’t matter which playfield manufacturer JJP were to use, they all would result in the same issues they have now, because of poor JJP manufacturing and over tightening of playfield items. Any playfield needs time to cure, before it is used in assembling and populating a pinball machine. It’s common sense 101.
Not seen this issue on any Stern owned by myself or friends. They have so many tables on the line, that proper curing time is given before playfield is populated and Stern experienced line workers don’t over tighten the posts etc. Cured thinner clear coats appear to be better than thicker in the science of a steel ball flying around a table at high velocities.

Sounds like you got it all figured out. You should contact JJP and get a job with them and help them out.

#183 58 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

okay....I am just asking this question and please dont bash me on this because I truly dont know.
What is a repopulated playfield?

When they send you a new playfield that already has everything installed on it, all the switches, pop bumbers, toys etc. They do that because theres no way in hell the average person can swap over all of his parts from the defective playfield onto a new playfield, nor should he even have to. You get the new populated playfield and just put it in and plug all the connections in and go.

#193 58 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

I think that is a fair resolution....makes sense. Do they do that for those with playfield issues?

Stern has done it for quite a few people but it looks like JJP won't do it, which is one of the reasons that i would never even consider buying a game off of them.

#202 58 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Not always. I sent them pictures of the pooling on the one here, but no replacement was offered.

Pooling doesnt warrant a replacement, chipping does. That's the difference.

#227 58 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

I understand that...U should at least get a plain playfield for FREE.

No you should get a populated playfield and nothing less because they sold you a defective product, a 10-13K defective product at that!

Quoted from RichieWrench:

Pinball is pinball and things can go wrong...but I will be shocked if there was not a fair resolution to these chipping issues.

Prepare to be shocked!

#437 57 days ago
Quoted from Furio:

I personally had some POTC CE issues from the line. Joe @ Pinballstar and Jack at JJP personally handled my issue which included shipping the machine back to the factory, twice. When the machine came back the second time, everything was set to rights minus one bulb that had issues likely due to shipping on the last way out. It took three months but I am happy with my machine now. The customer service was top notch, direct attention from the supervisors, but clearly an issue with QC line, which I addressed directly with Jack. It was my first NIB, and nearly put me off entirely. Part of the issue was CE's came off the line early and had more issues developed with more parts in them. They are now doing SE and LE first, seeing issues and addressing them prior to CE production. Ideally CE will see limited issues up front. However, I have faith that customer service will be outstanding based on my last service issues.
JJP puts out a more complex product, you will have more complex issues develop than stern. JJP is a younger company, they will have growing pains like any other. Be patient and polite when discussing your issues with them and your distributor. If you whine like I have seen many do on this and other threads, you should expect to be treated like a child and get the basic minimum customer service.
I put in an order for WWCE on the first day because of their quality of care, even with product issues at launch.

You obviously didnt have a playfield clearcoat issue because if you did they wouldn't have fixed it. You can try and pump up JJP all you want but there are lots of people right now that have playfield issues and JJP is telling them all to get f*cked! I guess maybe these customers must have whined too much and JJP treated them like children huh? I would never buy a JJP game because of the way they are screwing their customers. I honestly don't know how Jack could show his face at a pinball show anymore.

#441 57 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

That's more than just a bit over the top dramatic, don't you think?

No not really. What's dramatic is my friends that are not rich that saved up their hard earned money for their POTC games and they got chipping playfields and JJP wont replace them. They are feeling pretty dramatic right now and devistated just to be honest with you. Its sad man and very wrong.

#445 57 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Did any of them pay with an Amex card?

Not sure to be honest with you.

#468 56 days ago
Quoted from wmanningiv:

Just got back from Sunshine Laundromat. Pretty bad chipping on both slings and pooling at every post in the game.[quoted image][quoted image]

What game is that?

#471 56 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

It's Wonka. You can tell by the art.

Unreal. Im gonna go home and take a real close look at my games. It would be hard for me to buy a new game right now and if they aren't going to stand behind these games i would say that they may as well just close up shop because there isnt anyone in their right mind that would buy a game from a company that won't stand behind issues like this. This is just insane. If the pooling just stayed at pooling i wouldn't care but when they start chipping thats just a whole different ball game there.

#480 56 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

.I just find it hard that JJP is not handling this issue.

Believe it because they aren't and if you dont believe me go over to the Pirates thread and read about it.

#484 56 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

It took YEARS to settle on a permanent solution to the 1.x lighting problems on WoZ. Jack also took care of people with original ECLE WoZ Bader playfields that chipped off in large chunks once he had a better playfield option.
Likewise, this is a pretty big problem since JJP isn't the only manufacturer with it happening, and while I don't think this will be solved overnight, I do believe JJP will eventually come through.

The only acceptable solution though is a new populated playfield and they are only offering people a unpopulated playfield for 550 dollars.

#619 55 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Unfortunately, I didn't take pictures of all the pooling areas. The picture I sent Stern last year was on the left side on a skinny post, and I only documented a couple, not realizing some (all?) would eventually develop into chips to the wood. This was the first one that's actually chipped off, and the crazy part is that being inside the sling it's in a "protected" area, but maybe the vibration from the kicker on the sling is what shook it loose. This machine is on route and probably has 3000 plays?

Are they saying that they wont replace the playfield now though? You still have a defective playfield due to poor quality from day one whether its a year old or not and they should own up to it and replace it if they are a good company because they do in fact know that they sold you a poor quality playfield from the get go. Hopefully they will step up and do the right thing.

#624 55 days ago
Quoted from megaladon:

I’ve been trying to follow the chipping thread on multiple posts. I too was so hoping to have Wonka as my first NIB purchase but I won’t do it until there’s some sort of confirmation that the problem is being addressed. Just curious but have any companies come forward and made a public post? Not sure what type of etiquette or PR campaign would be required here?

They will probably never make a public post about the issues because they don't want to make people think its a big problem.

I don't really care if they do or not. All i care about is that if they sell me a game that has a shitty playfield that they send me a new populated playfield as many times as it takes to get it right because these games are way too expensive for me to take a chance on if they're not going to stand behind their products.

Stern seems to stand behind their products pretty good, hopefully they continue to do so because its the right thing to do. I know some people will dispute that and maybe rightfully so. These companies wont be able to stay in business though if they dont stand behind these high dollar luxery toys because people will definitely stop buying them. If they screw one person all of their friends know it and then those peoples friends know, and if course it also will spread like wildfire on the internet so failing to replace just one persons playfield or whatever could literally cost them hundreds of sales. That also in return hurts distributors and is just bad for the hobby totally. Everyone loses......

#626 55 days ago
Quoted from captjoeb:

$10,000.00 = 1,000,000 pennies. I wouldn’ want to count them. You should expect perfection for 10K.

Yep i agree. I even expect perfection out of a 5k Stern Pro. That's a lot of dough to me.

#648 54 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

JJP is a great company -

Not if they wont replace people's bad playfields they arent.

#654 54 days ago
Quoted from mtp78:

Everyone needs to calm down. Problem is being handled and they will eventually make a statement. I support JJP and will buy a wonka.

The problem actually is not being handled because there are lots of people who have already been told that they aren’t getting a new playfield. I know that you are a JJP fan because 90% of your posts are about JJP, which thats great and i get it but please don’t take up for them when they aren’t standing behind their products. There are lots of POTC owners right now that are fit to be tied with JJP and rightfully so.

I love my Sterns too but if they don’t stand behind their games i will publicly blast them to no end. Theres nothing worse than a company selling someone a 5-13K game that is defective and then telling them that they wont replace the defective playfield that they sold them that was of very poor quality.

#699 54 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

SHIT -- ALL THAT TYPING -- For what you put down in two sentences.
Okay - But did I sound Calm?

You sounded calm to me. You are just passionate about pinball and you wish all of this wasnt happening. Nothing wrong with that at all, we all feel the same way.

#703 54 days ago
Quoted from BillySastard:

Anytime someone writes in all caps it doesn't read as calm AT ALL.

In Richies case caps equals passion, not anger.

#709 53 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

And I thought I over-reacted over things... By all means, make a Mt Everest out of ant hill if you must but it's pretty comical and hysterical to see someone freak out over something that hasn't affected them. Yes yes everyone, flame me if you must but I can only go on what has actually affected me and I have absolutely zero reason to even question JJP or think that my WONKA CE will be anything less than absolute perfection. Now if the CE turns out to be an LE with a different color and some glitter than I'm out anyways simply over the absurd delay we've been experiencing...
I'm not saying any of this is okay or acceptable, I've been very clear on that. But, it hasn't happened to me so to me it's inappropriate and ridiculous to speculate on what would happen or what has happened to others based on what they chose to share in an online forum... Grab your pitch forks if you must, if it makes you feel better or whatever, but not me...

You're missing the point completely. Look at how many POTC owners are affected by this problem, there are shitloads of them and JJP is not standing behind their games and making it right to their affected customers. Do you really think its no problem to gamble on a 12.5K game when so many people are having these problems?

These problems are real dude and JJP not standing behind the games is real also. You would have to be a complete f*cking moron to not be concerned about it. Stern is having many issues as well. Im the biggest Stern fanboy around and i want a JP so bad that i cant stand it but theres no f*cking way that I would buy one right now when person after person is posting pics of these shitty ass playfields.

Maybe you are ao rich that it doesn't matter but i cant gamble on a 12K game. I cant even gamble on a 5.5K game.

#746 53 days ago
Quoted from Cgpinhead:

I agree Richie! Maybe JJP should let people know those numbers. It might resume people’s confidence.

Do you really think that they would tell you the truth? Hell no they wouldn't.

#802 53 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

It's not just under the sling posts.
I went with fairly large mylar rings instead of the ugly washer route. Looks great and no more problems so far on a route jjPotC.

Where did you get the mylar rings at?

#806 53 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Made them. People were asking for them, so I put sets with big and small rings to do the slings in the PinMonk store here on pinside.

Do you recommend those under the small posts that are throughout the playfield too or would a washer work better under those? Im talking like an outlane post or the little posts that are in front of the ramps etc. like a post in the pic that Panzerfreak posted above me.

#811 53 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

This is 100% my personal opinion and I have no studies to cite, but I think using washers just pushes out the pressure point on the playfield to the hard edge of the washer and it's still susceptible to chipping at the new edge. I went with mylar because the pressure point remains the same, but there's now a clear buffer zone well past the edge of the star post or post that is protecting that edge. So I'm team mylar all the way.
Honestly, I have no idea why JJP AND Stern aren't using mylar around all the points the posts contact the playfields. At the very least it would substantially cut down on the chipping, if not eliminate it. I guess it would slow down the line, though...

I would probably think you are correct. If you have a chip though that would need to be filled in with something to level it out. Maybe some clear fingernail polish or an automotive clear touch up. Not sure if they make such a thing but i think that they do. Super glue perhaps?

#852 52 days ago
Quoted from jfh:

No. The only thing that will make a difference is a marked slowdown in sales.

Thats going to be happening i guarantee it. You can bet you ass that distros are shitting their pants right now as well.

#856 52 days ago
Quoted from JY64:

With only 406 registered JJP POTC Pinside owners even 40 chipping playfields is one in ten

I have a feeling that the problem is far worse than that.

#890 52 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Great info and nice interview until you said all of us who have chipping are crazy for letting it bother us. If it were just bubbling then fine, maybe somewhat reasonable rationale. But chipping where I can’t even move a post and install it just can’t be acceptable. Period.
You lost me there and I’m going to venture and say you were likely CYA since your a distro of all these fine games.

Who said that people were crazy for letting this bother them? What an idiot!

#895 52 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

You really ought to give it a listen.
All good except the last two minutes when the distributor hat comes out.
Seriously, he should edit that part out because it’s terrible terrible optics in my opinion as a seller of these brands.

Im definitely going to listen to it later but its definitely a big deal. Its a really big F'ing deal to me personally because i take great pride in my games and i love them and want them to remain nice and they SHOULD remain nice pretty much forever being in a home use only environment. It also takes me a long time to save up enough money to buy one of these games.

#915 52 days ago
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:

It was his personal opinion on the matter that it doesn’t bother him and his feeling it was ridiculous to not buy NIB over this issue because the games are still fun and he wants to play them. He made direct mention that it was a legit problem and it should be fixed. It just wasn’t world ending No It didn’t come off completely right and it’s not every ones opinion and most certainly not the popular opinion but any one that has ever bought a pin from Zach can attest that he does all he can for his customers. Iv seen the guy fight hard for way way smaller things than this and even spend money out of his own pocket to rectify a situation that was a manufacturer or part problem to help a customer out. You won’t find another distributor that will go as far as he will

I had no idea that Zach is the one that said that lol. Hmm.........

I like Zach a lot and he's definitely a great person to buy games from but i just listened to it and i gotta say that i totally disagree with him on this issue here.

These games cost way too much for quality that is this poor. Pinball playfields that were made 50 years ago were far better than what they are making today. For the prices that we are paying i expect top notch quality and nothing less sorry.

Im going to have to have a talk with that boy, sounds like hes been breathing too many pesticides from those Indiana cornfields or something. Chipping playfields are a big MF'ing deal too me.

#919 52 days ago
Quoted from Parzival:

Are your games looking OK? People have reported chipping on Munsters, Maiden, and I believe GB

I have some issues with IMDN and i am concerned about a couple areas on my Munsters. All the other games are fine.

Im not happy about it and theres no way in hell that i would buy a new game until i am confident that this problem is fixed. This is honestly taking a lot of the fun out of pinball for me.

#937 51 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

Talked with someone today with JJP and I have been assured that JJP is looking into this issue more serious and will be making an announcement coming soon. He did not want to tell me what it was as they are addressing some of these concerns, but he did assured me that this was being looked at very close at JJP. I was not looking for an answer, bit I did let him know my concerns and to please pass my concerns and request up the line to upper management.
My understanding is that the distributors will probably be among the first to know what JJP is going to do for those affected and it will get passed on down the line from the distributors.
I think this could be the reason why maybe there is a delay on the announcement on the CE details.
Well....here to a good response from JJP. Again, I be shocked if they did not find a way to make this right and help those that have been dealing with this issue on their own machines.

They’re blowing smoke up your ass Richie. Don’t fall for it and don’t trust them because they arent telling you the truth.

#948 51 days ago
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:

I think it’s a huge deal. And I’m completely obsessive with my pins. I don’t want it on my games and it most certainly bothers me. Again Zach even stated it was a problem and it needed to be fixed. My post was that it was his personal opinion. That in no way effects what he knows is right for his customers. Do you honestly think that Zach is sitting by doing nothing? People can flame Zach all day over that opinion and it’s an opinion that, again I don’t agree with but to insinuate that the guy is a bad distributor and he’s not going to do everything within his limits to resolve the problem ludicrous
I’m not defending his comments. I’m defending the guy as a great distributor

I don't think anyone thinks Zach is a bad distributor, especially anyone that knows him personally. I have done business with him and wouldn't hesitate to do so again. As a matter of fact the last thing i got from him had problems and he was on top of it immediately and took care of me. His communication with customers is seriously top notch all the way.

Zach is a very hard worker and a very driven person and just a all around nice guy. I don't agree with what he said there even a little bit but it is in fact only his personal opinion and it does not reflect on how he will fight for his customers at all. You wont find a better distributor than Zach Meny.

#1022 50 days ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

I can't believe this. I ordered 2 machines last year, a Luci VE and a Metallica Prem. The Luci has it in multiple areas, while the Met is fine. That's 50% of the machines I ordered last year. Small selection set, but I'm sure there's a lot of affected pins out there. The majority of operators don't give a shit, and the majority of home use buyers who don't frequent Pinside might never realize where all the multi-colored confetti littering their playfield is coming from, so you won't hear or see complaints from a large percentage of owners, but rest assured, the issue is there.

I bought 2 games last year and they both have issues so thats 100% for me.

#1025 50 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

all I am saying is its not widespread be lucky if its more than 1%

You dont have any idea what the percentage of affected playfields are. I can guarantee you that its far bigger than 1%. That would only be 1 in 100 playfields. We are seeing tons of people that are having problems right now.

#1042 50 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

well less than 7 have reported issues to JJP, so where are the other 93

You Sir are full of shit. How in the hell do you know how many people have reported issues? Do you work for JJP or something?

#1048 50 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

list the names and game numbers of these other 93 you claim have issues otherwise you are the one full of shit

I dont have to list anything because i already know there's a huge problem. I also know that JJP is telling people to get f*cked and they are a shitty company and i wouldn't even consider buying one of their games.

#1087 50 days ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Sorry to hear that, did Stern replace your playfields?

Just turned in a ticket on one of the games and haven't turned one in on the other yet. We will see what happens. One of them is minor and doesn't matter as long as it doesn't get worse but one actually has a chip out of the artwork and some pretty bad pooling around a couple of the other posts.

#1099 50 days ago
Quoted from Adipocere:

Shame too, because the game is incredible, and this shouldn’t be the defining story of it.

This kind of reminds me of Ghostbusters all over again. Everyone loved the game and then the playfields were shit and everyone lost interest in it because of it. Ghostbusters would have sold way better had it not been for the playfield problems.

#1102 50 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I came into the hobby after the playfield thing was over...I thought GB sucked because it shot like shit! It might have been my first pin if it wasn't so frustratingly terrible.

Its not a fun game for noobs for sure. Play better!

#1105 50 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Believe me I'm trying! Wonka is brutal AF and it has definitely upped my skills a bit across all pins.

Im just joking with you. It is a very hard game but once you play it and learn it its not too bad and its a lot of fun. The game will nake you a better player for sure too. Wonka is definitely a brutal game as well. Pretty fun though overall.

#1284 48 days ago
Quoted from NintenBear:

I also think a populated replacement play field would be the appropriate remedy. Have the buyer pay for shipping both ways. Then the faulty play field can be repaired and reused.

Why should the buyer have to pay for shipping? The seller sent a defective product, not the buyer. The buyer is already put out enough for having to do the playfield swap and boxing the old playfield up and having to send it back, he shouldn't have to pay shipping too.

#1295 48 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

LOL First off I’m not hiding behind my keyboard and I actually tried to come and talk to you about it at TPF but you were super busy or not at the stand and frankly I don’t travel five thousand miles to stand and wait to complain. I’ll be at Expo if you want to catch up then, you’ll find that I’ll say everything here to you in person “whilst looking at the whites of your eyes!”
Easy to fix any of my speculation by:
1: being specific about who was affected (so that second user buyers know what they are getting into - as you quote these games will outlast us all). There are still loads of folks who are in the dark.
2: being specific as to what the problem was - at least to those who are likely to come across it if not in public.
There is a view here that this was a minor problem - I don’t agree, there is a view that it was handled well, again I don’t agree. I am not suggesting that you didn’t do all that you could, but you could have handled it better - there was no direct contact and the only way I found out about it was when people started to post pictures of the damage then there was the washers offered - from what I made out (and you can go read the thread folks) - this problem was known and hadn’t been shared - if it had been then prevention might have been possible. People with games barely days old had the problem well after it was known.
But again those that know me know I am positive person and am super happy to admit when I’m wrong and if I am I’ll be hiding behind my keyboard posting that and looking anyone in the whites of their eyes saying I was wrong. I’d love to be wrong on this!
Charlie - I love TNA - I love Rob Zombie, ACNC is excellent and you have done an epic job to make something unique (although I’m not an Alice Cooper Fan!).
Yes I’ve got a new populated playfield that I had to pay for, yes you discounted it, no its not all a company could or should do. Within GB ghosting Stern sent me FOC a populated
I had to pay you over a thousand dollars to get my game back to how it should have been from the start.
Fortunately for me I have a good relationship with my dealer and he shipped it in his container free of charge (although some import taxes might be due on it).
I only got that I believe because I kicked up a stink on pinside. Because the only solution offered up to that point was a bunch of washers, which by the way I helped out all the UK folks by getting them sent to me and I sent them on to all the UK owners. I’m such a bad guy.

Sounds like you should have got a new populated playfield to me. They made a bad product and should have stood behind it period.

#1335 48 days ago
Quoted from SpookyKT:

Your playfield was free, assembly labor was free, shipping was free, and we sold you the components at our cost after Charlie reached out to you to try and help reach a resolution. Our warranty covered and replaced the part that failed as it states and that was the best we could do. You said all we did was send out washers, and that is not the case at all is the point.
Charlie wasn't saying you were hiding behind a keyboard, that was aimed elsewhere.
And next time you fly across the Atlantic and come to a show PLEASE come talk to us if we are busy or not. I swear we are nice people and really do care.

What kind of components did he have to buy and why should he have had to buy anything at all? Im a little confused here.

#1357 48 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I seriously need to get the hell off Pinside.


#1374 48 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Fine. Enjoy your hysteria.

Zaph look, you seem like a decent guy and if you dont care about the pooling and chipping playfields then that is fine. I personally think its idiotic that you wouldn't be bothered by it but it doesn't make you a bad person if that's how you feel.

The only problem i and many other people have with you is your fight to try and make it seem like this is no big deal because obviously most people here think its a pretty big deal. You're not going to make many friends by coming in this thread and telling people how dumb they are for being upset about their chipping and pooling playfields.

I dont have a problem with you other than you keep coming into this thread where you're greatly outnumbered and you keep beating a dead horse. This shitty quality is NOT OKAY and you are never going to convince anyone here otherwise. I dont want you to leave Pinside, just this thread.

#1378 48 days ago

Zaph is is a good guy, he's just wrong on this issue here. Not a bad guy though overall.

#1387 48 days ago
Quoted from Coz:

Great decision! I just bought a used super chexx a few weeks ago!

You Super Chexx guys get a room will ya?

#1564 46 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

if you buy your games to just be trophy queens... you're in the wrong hobby. The game intrinsically includes the idea of wear and tear. If you buy pinballs just to have perfect games.. you're going to hate the game.

Just because someone buys a game and wants to keep it nice definitely DOES NOT mean that they are in the wrong hobby. These game SHOULD stay nice in a HUO environment. I am proud of my games and i keep them in pristine condition. A brand new game with a chipping playfield is not acceptable period.

#1568 46 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Certainly not at these silly prices.

Exactly. These companies are charging premium prices for these games and i expect the quality to be on par with the price.

#1584 46 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

These are the same “collectors” that think people shaking their machines is abuse... who won’t take games to shows because they are afraid of them being handled or being played... and put 20-30% of the games price into mods on their games to doll them up. Yet can’t fix a simple switch stack and think schematics are hieroglyphs.... and what to define the “worst thing that can possibly happen” to a game to be 1/8” cosmetic chips around posts. Get real.
It sucks your new toy is no longer flawless... but that is inevitable in pinball. We spend good time and money rebuilding them... because they get broken, they wear, and they fail. Such is the life of a pinball machine.

I agree with what you are saying but these games here that we are talking about are coming out of the factory with defective playfields. I can accept them getting beat up a little over time but just not when they are new or barely played.

#1587 46 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

I truly think they will do the right thing to those effected. I think it will be a case by case situation and it's going to take time.
Lers give them all a chance and show that they will do it and continue to make great games and they will learn from this as a great company does.
I truly feel that JJP is a great company.

Owners of POTC have given JJP a chance only to be turned down for getting their games fixed. They were insulted by JJP offering them a new playfield for 550 dollars when even a free playfield would not have been a satisfactory solution to their problem. They should have been sent populated playfields for their games and nothing less. JJP IS NOT a good company! They will not stand behind their games and i would never consider buying one. Their prices are way too high and their customer service sucks!

#1724 45 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:If you can’t accept that... you’re in the wrong hobby.

Here we go, the God of pinball telling everyone who should and should not be in this hobby again.

#1846 42 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

There is no reason for not replying to you, normally log a ticket with support, call them or email them, the normal response would be
A. The problem to your game is minor and we have a service kit to repair or cover any damage, if the problem continues we have your report logged
B. The problem requires a replacement playfield and will contact you when one is available
C. We are working with your Distributor to repair or replace your game.
I am pretty sure All Manufacturers who have an issue are looking to resolve any issues before offering a resolution, but should at least assure the issue will be resolved.

No offense seriously, but you are dreaming. JJP is not standing behind their games. I doubt Stern is going to be any different either since so many games have been affected. These playfields are total shit and i would venture to say that almost all games that have been made in the last two years have pooling and or chipping.

#1848 42 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

I can assure you they are and will, I am sure they are looking into any issues
Be Patient and Polite gets you further.

I can assure you that they are already telling lots and lots of people that they aren’t going to fix their games. Their solution is to send them a unpopulated playfield for 550.00 dollars, which is totally unacceptable. Go over to the POTC thread and ask those guys how many of them have been sent a new populated playfield. The answer is NONE!

#1851 42 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

I am sure they will only replace the defective part the playfield not a populated Playfield unless really bad

How can you only replace part of a playfield? Its either all or nothing.

#1856 42 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

well I guess it will be nothing in your case then
No Manufacturer is going to send out New Fully Populated Playfields in exchange for used ones.
Maybe they might ship your playfield back to the factory and swap all your parts over to another, But I cant see them shipping entire New Populated Playfields

Stern did with all the bad Ghostbusters playfields and why shouldn't they? They sent out a defective product and they should have to make it right. The only way to make it right is to send the customers a new populated playfield. Thats the only satisfactory solution.

#1864 42 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

If this "course of action" - sending out hundreds of populated playfields for swap - would cause JJP to no longer be in the pinball business, would you still want them to "hang their hat" on it?

F*ck yeah i would!

#1905 42 days ago
Quoted from romulusx:

What if it meant Stern would go broke and out of business?

Same, because i cannot afford to donate 5-13 thousand dollars just so a company can stay in business. Thats a lot of money for me and it takes me a long time to save that kind of money.

#1949 41 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Attacking by this person is typical. Pay no attention and give trolls what they’re looking for. Ignoring them is best.

Thats a fact

#1959 40 days ago
Quoted from PinLen83:

Jack IS doing the right thing. Plain and simple. The man is making calls to customers HIMSELF. Hell, I’m sure he’s even delivering play fields personally to those who are local also! That’s just the kind of guy he is. An act of goodwill to that extent is unmatched, and it deserves recognition. No lip service, just action.
I’m glad he stepped up. His company will continue to have a bright future. I wish him all the best knowing that HE WILL weather this storm.

OMG dude really? All it takes is a personal call from Jack and you are all giddy and happy now? Do you think he’s calling people because he’s a great guy? Hell no, he’s calling people because his business is going down the shitter and he’s trying to save it! Its amazing how some people can be made happy about getting screwed on a 10K game just from a phone call from Jack! If he called me i would be giving him a f*cking ear full instead of kissing his ass!

#1979 40 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

who-dey stop making so much sense! Haha
People complain he doesn't own or never has owned a JJP and therefore shouldn't talk...take it from me then.
I own two jjp's, owned DI and POTC and if they didn't completely drop the ball on Wonka, I would have owned that too.
Bottom line, although I really do appreciate Jack calling people there is absolutely NO f'n way JJP is doing this until we the Pinball community threw it in their face for countless days. Don't believe me? Look at Wonka..... They didn't do shit. Literally just produced the same BS pfs and guess what they did for the potc owners.... Nothing
Now we're all calling them out and they finally starting doing something.
Ok good to see but for the guys kissing their ass bc Jack got on the phone to call people? It's called jjp is scared shitless and rightfully so and it's people like who-dey who continue to call this BS out that should be thanked for this reaction.
Unfortunately too much of the "industry" wants us to continue buying NIB. Well F that.
Pinball people - continue uniting by not buying anything until these companies step it up and fix this and remember the shills that told you to do otherwise.

For some reason there are a few people that think im just trying to throw JJP under the bus and thats just not true at all. I am no happier with Stern right now than i am with JJP. For anyone that wants to know why im here, its really simple, #1 i have friends that own POTC and they are not being taken care of by JJP, basically being told we aren't fixing your game that has a defective playfield that you bought from us.

#2 i am calling them out because they are wrong and unethical about how they are treating their customers. Is Stern any better? I think so. Will Stern take care of my two playfields that have pooling and one has chipping? I don't know, i sure hope so. If they don't im not going to keep it a secret or try and make excuses for them i can tell you that much.

And for the people that are worried about putting JJP or Stern out if business, sorry but thats not my problem. I personally have 2 pinball machines right now that have a combined value of 15 thousand dollars that have in my opinion defective playfields in them and im not happy about it. I am an average guy busting my nuts in a factory everyday and i just cant write this off for a loss and act like its no big deal. It took me a hell of a long time to save up that money to buy those games. I have bought 7 new Sterns over the last few years and i am a good customer. I hope that they treat me as such on these 2 games.

#1982 39 days ago
Quoted from PinLen83:

He needs to figure it out. And he will. If not, the business will crumble. A bit of self preservation to help others in need isn’t all that awful. Admittedly , I help others at my job solely because it’ll effect how my family is fed. So long as he is addressing the concern, no matter how small, he has to start somewhere. I have NOTHING TO GAIN by “kissing Jacks ass”. That is flat out silly.
Don’t get me wrong. There’s no way I’m going near ANYONES GAMES, his included, until this shit is resolved, fully. My games are always pitch perfect. My OCD will not allow me to own anything less than a flawless machine.[quoted image]

I never said that you were kissing his ass. I was just talking about how people seem to be star struck because Jack is calling them. Some people are even willing to share some of the cost with him so he doesn't lose so much money. This is a company backed by billionaire investors.if im not mistaken, why the hell would anyone be willing to take a hit financially for them?

#1987 39 days ago
Quoted from PinLen83:

Maybe star struck isn't the right term?

Hey look, i have to get my point across and sometimes that might mean blowing things out of proportion a little ok?

#1989 39 days ago
Quoted from HighProtein:

My client's game on location is bubbling around the slingshot posts now...

I truly believe in my heart that almost every single playfield that has been made in the last couple of years has pooling around the posts. Most owners just don't know it yet.

#1991 38 days ago
Quoted from dts:

Well, four of the games I bought from this time frame didn't: IMDNLE, BM66Pre, MMr, and MBrLE. So it isn't a universal problem. But you could see some wood grain on IMDN, a couple of very minor dots where the silk screen ink didn't take on MBrLE, and some minor insert crazing on MMr. So I guess Batman 66 was the only one that looked perfect-but I bet with a microscope there were issues! These are hand made, for the most part. Differences can emerge even in the same game. Perfection is nice, but the minute you play a new game, that is gone. IMO, this playfield problem will be fixed and a footnote to pinball history.

Only one of the four games that you mentioned had pooling issues and thats IMDN. Im sure theres a game here and there that has no issues but pretty much everyone ive personally seen has issues. I dont think thats a coincidence. Also you show none of these games in your collection. Did you sell them all already? Maybe the IMDN pooled after you sold it?

#1993 38 days ago
Quoted from dts:

How hard can it be to return to a better product?

Not sure but its going to be interesting to see. I heard that the new BM66 Catwoman editions are having some issues as well. Not sure if thats true or not though. It makes me sick honestly. I haven't even been playing any pinball because of it and my IMDN and Munsters both need cleaned and i just don't even want to do it.....cant find the motivation..

#1996 38 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Here’s a new theory to make you feel better WD.....if you never clean them, the build up of grime from flipper and rubber dust will protect the Playfield forever. I once bought an Indy500 that was on location and hadn’t been cleaned for years - the Playfield was literally black. Gave it a good clean and it literally looked like new underneath.

Lol yeah that's true but do you really think that id let my Munsters get that way as proud of that game as i am? I keep all of my games really nice but i was looking at IMDN the other day and after about 200 plays since the last time i cleaned it, those good ole Stern black rubbers are really making a mess of my game. I have got to get them off of my games because they really dirty things up quickly.

#2012 38 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

I don't expect a fully populated playfield swap, or an outright machine exchange.

Youre a good guy Wesman but you should expect nothing less than a fully populated defect free playfield in your brand new 10K game. I don’t know how these companies could legally get away with doing anything less honestly.

#2016 38 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

I'd like that too Who-Dey, but I know that won't occur.

Your game is brand new, you deserve a brand new populated playfield and nothing less. Jack needs to stand behind the defective game that he sold you. If i opened up a new game and it has chipping or maybe a month later it starts chipping, i am going to be FURIOUS if they don't send me a new playfield that i can slide into my game and plug it in and go.

#2019 38 days ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

I'm on your side, I want to see all of us get what we paid for. Don't settle for less, you deserve it.

Its pretty obvious that Jack isn't going to do the right thing, now lets see what Stern does. This is one big f*cking mess and the customers shouldn't be the ones that have to take it in the ass. I wish this wasn’t happening. Its bad for pinball and everyone that is affected. Just build us a good quality f*cking game and we wont have to deal with this BS. I dont know why that is so hard to understand. We shouldn’t have to deal with cabinets splitting and playfields chipping. I understand that shit happens occasionally and that this isnt perfect world but it’s unacceptable when nearly every game out there is falling apart.

#2036 37 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

This thread just feels miserable.

This thread is miserable, thats a fact. Its miserable though because JJP and Stern are putting out a shit product, not because of the people involved in the thread. None of us want this, we want great quality playfields that will last many many years.

#2041 37 days ago
Quoted from dashv:

Don’t let that happen man. Enjoy your games. Don’t keep em tight for the next person! I just played STNG to final frontier without sound (sound board died so waiting for my pinsound+ to arrive).
Not saying accept crap. But also saying if you got the game and it works PLAY IT!!!

Thanks. It just kind of bums me out because I've worked so hard to build my collection and ive put a lot of effort into taking care of them and stuff. I'll be fine though, definitely not gonna get out of pinball because i love it too much.

#2070 37 days ago
Quoted from romulusx:

The issue I have is with people who just come here to stir up shit.
And then praise Stern up while bashing JJP and they own all Stern pins and act like their so disappointed that JJP is not treating people right .They know what their doing and they enjoy doing it

Just in case you are talking about me, and i assume that you are....the reason that i care is because i have two friends that were told that they were shit out of luck on their POTC games. I guess now they can get a nice phone call from Jack and a free unpopulated playfield that Jack was originally going to give them for the great price of 550 dollars.

I am also fighting for people that i don't even know who are being treated unfairly. Also i am not letting Stern off the hook either, i am not happy with them at all. Stern hasnt officially told anyone that they arent getting their games fixed yet, thats what you have to remember. JJP did that and then finally caved a little (not near enough) under public pressure.

I have two games myself that are affected and i know for a fact that there are a few people here hoping that Stern doesn't fix my games, so to anyone who feels that way l all i can say is shame on you! Do not think that i am letting Stern off the hook here because im not. I have bought 7 new games from them and i want JP and Elvira 3 but i wont buy them until theses issues are fixed and i would like them to make a statement saying so to win back my confidence as a customer.

There's one thing for sure, if i don't feel like they give me a satisfactory resolution you will not see me on here making excuses for them or taking up for them. As of right now though Stern has done everything great when i have had problems in the past so im not going to get too excited yet and start throwing them under the bus just yet. So far all of my problems that i have had have been handled in a very prompt manner and their tech guys have been awesome in helping me when i need it.

#2073 37 days ago
Quoted from Procrastinator:

do you feel the only resolution is two populated play fields from stern?

I have two games that i paid nearly 15 thousand dollars for and they have defective playfields so what do you think?

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