(Topic ID: 249691)

Wonka LE Sling Post Chipping in one month!!


By rs812

3 months ago



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  • Latest reply 45 days ago by Pinhead1982
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Topic index (key posts)

2 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #1403 Response from JJP from the Pinball Magazine podcast Posted by RobertWinter (3 months ago)

Post #1407 Transcribed response from JJP from the Pinball Magazine podcast Posted by RobertWinter (3 months ago)


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#80 3 months ago
Quoted from SyntheticDavid:

What kind of knob shining idiot expects his $10k pin to not peel in the first month?

Great post! Lmao. Only 13 in and already making a positive impression!

Were the posts in this game the ones with sharp edges that dig into the clear? That’s what the damage looks like. If so, shame on JJP for still using them (or was this only discovered recently?).

I was pretty deflated and pissed at Stern when their playfields were having so many issues and I am now at JJP. For the cost of these games, this is so lame. How did Stern fix their problem? Or did they?

#84 3 months ago
Quoted from KHL:

There has to be a cure for this.

I see what you did there.

-1
#141 3 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Wow, yeah that's just as bad.

And is that some insert ghosting as well on that GotG?

Quoted from snaroff:

You’d think a company with Stern’s success could bring PF production in-house and do the appropriate R&D (and/or acquisition) to nail these issues. Depending on 3rd party companies for the heart of your product isn’t smart (and it seems to worsen with each new game).

Didn’t they try that? I don’t know why they stopped, but it’s probably because they screwed it up.

1 week later
#1489 3 months ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Worst part is, resale value will be toast as the word gets out on JJP pinball machines.

And every Stern with these problems too.

Stern makes far more machines than JJP. We don’t know the % of their machines that have the clear coat problems, but odds on it’ll be more than JJP, simply because they manufacture 5X games a year than JJP.

And odds on that more people experienced ghosting inserts, chipping playfields/shooter lanes, wrinkling decals (that also came off), separated cabinets and busted mechs on Stern games as well. Not too mention node board failures. Stern ain’t no saint when it comes to QC.

So buyer beware, regardless of the manufacturer.

#1492 3 months ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Is name calling really necessary? It puts you in such a low category in poor human behavior.
Lol, I shouldn’t give this the dignity of a reply, but you’re the Stern hater on a mission and are the one to be ignored. You hate the fact that I’m calling it like it is. Noticed you don’t have much to say in your normal defense of JJP and all these clear coat issues?
I don’t hate JJP and have purchased their machines. How does that make me a hater?
Yes, I’m concerned at the customer service and machine issues I’ve had like anyone would be. Again, how does that make me a hater?
True, my experience with Stern has been stellar. Any issue although very few, has been handled in a “pronto” fashion and without hesitation. They value me as a customer and I value them as a manufacture by giving them my hard earned money. Why is this hard for you to understand??? Stern stands behind their product and it just keeps getting better. Have you taken a good look at how well their machine cabinets have been made since the beginning of this year? Every bit as good as JJPs cabinets.
(All you JJP apologists, go ahead and put your heads in the sand about the playfield chipping issues and downvote my comments)

Downvote.

#1506 3 months ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Look at all the table chipping photos above. Chips/pooling is at the base of the old Bally/Williams star posts, which JJP uses exclusively (Stern has used them in the past, I know). Unless someone has an example, haven’t seen that issue with Sterns newer regular thinner posts, that don’t have such a large foot print that constantly torques on the surface of the playfield, as the heavy steel ball hits the post with high velocity.
The large surface foot print contact area of the Bally/Williams star posts might also have something to do with these problems than we might suspect? Every time those slings are hit, the large star post begins slight rocking/torquing on the playfield surface. Do it enough times and you’ll break the coating of nearly any table with brittle uncured clear coat.

How can you be so consistently wrong? It’s a talent.

#1596 3 months ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Sorry Richie, JJP is not a great company. Great companies do not treat their patrons the way JJP does. They continued the POTC PF disaster knowingly with Willy Wonka. That is not the mark of a great company. They have not, nor will they replace with populated PFs and make all the POTC owners, nor the WW owners whole. Again, that is not a great company.
Wishful thinking will not make them turn around. Only by stop spending our hard earned money with them, will make them pause and rethink their strategy. Or go out of business, just like any company that will not take care of their customers. Would your plumbing company stay in business if you gave the nonsense disclaimer they are now giving to their customers??? This is not the mark of a great company. True, Stern gives this same statement, but they so far replace poor playfields at Sterns expense. When they stop doing that, we should all stop spending our hard earned dollars with them too.

There is no proof Stern provides populated playfields for all defective playfields. None. In fact, people in this thread - and many others over many years - have reported that Stern, in fact, said “yours doesn’t qualify for a replacement”.

I believe Stern provided the very first “clear chipping correction kit” to their customers - basically nail polish and a que-tip - NOT JJP.

Stern finally, after a good long wait, replaced a series of GB playfields after a tremendous uproar about their lack of attention and concern for the inferior product they were shipping out on the regular. Since then, their record is actually fairly spotty on playfield replacement, fully populated or not. Some get them, others don’t. The persistent squeaky wheel combined with a good distributor probably makes a difference. But there’s no way Stern ever just says “ok, you’re right, we’ll send one right out”. Oh, and on multiple occasions Stern has sent replacements that were borked. This is just a fact. Reported many times.

Your insistent, uninformed defense of Stern while assassinating the character of JJP is shameful. JJP could wait until the end of the year to determine how to fix this and they would be on par with Stern’s demonstrated timing of deciding on a strategy for resolving issues.

Stern has a lot of defective playfields in the market right now. Let’s see how many of their customers get satisfaction.

This is an industry wide problem. Spooky and AP appear to have overcome the issue. The rest have a lot to prove. I won’t buy NIB from anyone right now, and when buying used, my decision making process will include full playfield inspection. And that, justifiably, includes ALL Sterns.

#1600 3 months ago
Quoted from kvan99:

It seems to me that there are multiple issues at play here, first off, the clearcoat is not something we see on the market, it's especially formulated for Mirco. We don't know (at least conclusively) how different the formulation is, is it just because it's water based or is it how it's mixed to speed up production? The second thing is the digital printing, the art seems to come off with when the clear chips. There seems to be an adhesion problem, why? Is ink not attaching itself to the wood properly? Is it a prep issue? I think the robotic automation and the speed aspect of his production line may also play a role. I think the first step to address this issue is to re-formulate the clear....or perhaps use a name brand product that's widely available.
PS: some good info regarding his production line......skip to 7:30 mark for the clearcoat comment.

Thanks for posting this. He’s proud of his ever evolving, fully customized and proprietary mixture for his clear. I have no doubt that he’s developed a formula that he believes will be most resistant to a steel ball, but it also suggests that he may have overlooked other factors, like how it will interact with the wood and ink etc.

In his quest for better he’s messed up “good enough” IMO.

#1605 3 months ago
Quoted from dashv:

Another site has picked up this story and run with it:
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/this-week-in-pinball-august-26th-2019/
I’ve bookmarked the hell out of this thread and other sites with theories, suggestions, your examples of chipping, and statements by the various vendors.
This thread is impossible for a noob or the faint at heart to follow at this point without spending multiple hours. There is right, wrong, and uncertain info in this thread and sorting through all of that that’s even more time.
Case in point. I’d been following this thread and other for several days and had already placed an order for a NiB Stern table only to find out moments later. Yes, their tables can also have these pooling/chipping issues.
I’m thinking of doing a 5-10min YouTube video about the whole situation. Has anyone else here already done so?
I feel like if we could focus our efforts into a clear and organized story with examples and currently known statements and responses from the companies involved we might be able to at least provide that as a resource for customers to make informed decisions about potentially affected tables and vendors.
Not by any means suggesting folks stop commenting here.
Just letting ya’ll know what I’m thinking of doing and asking if any of you would like to help by sanity checking my outline and content or providing additional info before I release it into the wild.

Check out posts by xTheBlackKnightx. Knowledgeable old timer/operator. Opinionated but informed.

What does anyone really expect JJP or Stern to do publicly? They are a business, and they need to protect themselves. This concept can - must! - coexist with taking care of their customers. Because guess what, if they go under because of this or anything else, owners get nothing. Sound familiar?

This hobby isn’t just this little thing of ours on Pinside. It’s big business. This is a big problem and is going to need a big solution. Across multiple manufacturers and possibly industries. Keep flying the flag, but give them time to understand and fix this. And make good, somehow, with their customers. The solution they come up with might not be ideal, but hopefully it will be acceptable.

Blaming them for inactivity right now is disingenuous and probably counter productive.

#1636 3 months ago
Quoted from SyntheticDavid:

I’ve been in this hobby but it’s been within this last year that I joined this website full of faggots.

Wow.

#1641 3 months ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

That opportunity has come and gone, has it not?
He must have known there was serious pf issues with potc and did nothing.
The company couldn't even be arsed to fix stuff for wonka.

Has it now?

You don’t know this. Why be such a freaking know it all when you don’t have all the facts.

See above.

They are a business, not your buddy. They have a macro view, not your ill informed, narrow minded opinion.

Be unhappy about the situation. Call it out all you want, but give them an opportunity to understand and fix before tearing them a new one!

How far back does GoTG go? They have clear puddling. Does that mean Stern are evil, uncaring, neglectful fucks for releasing games after GoTG that still have the problem?

#1642 3 months ago
Quoted from SyntheticDavid:

Pinball machines naturally have wear and tear so who cares if they come fucked up out of the box?! If you expect a NIB machine to look NEW you’re dumb and in the wrong hobby!

Methinks you don’t know what “New” means.

#1654 3 months ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Saying that a handful of pictures off pooling and chipping translates to a “widespread problem” is also shortsighted and logically unsound. The only “fact” is that nobody knows what percentage are affected, except maybe the distributors and manufacturers.

Exactly. What’s Jack supposed to do? Cancel his vacation? Admit total wrongdoing? Have 20 people actually complained or provided evidence yet? Do we know?

It looks like a problem. How big we don’t know. Expecting a company to admit guilt and start writing checks is absurd.

#1657 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinballer67:

agreed...I ain't buying NUTHIN until this gets fixed beyond a doubt!
well, maybe Spooky. My ACNC is perfect, thanks Charlie and Co for being a stand-up company!

The amazeballs thing is that the manufacturers - ALL of them - will just cut corners somewhere else, leading to another problem we’ll need to complain about before they own up and fix it. See Stern and JJP for the last 8 years. If you think one has a leg up on the other when it comes to issues, you’re wrong.

Maybe Spooky’s better. ACNC is a winning game, and provides by far the best “world under glass experience” going today.

#1658 3 months ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

You don't actually believe he's on vacation, off the grid in 2019, at the exact time all hell breaks loose do you?

He goes on vacation every August. Like I did and like 90% of the world dies too. So yes, I do.

#1685 3 months ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Not just calling JJP on this. If Stern won’t take care of us their customers, they’re in the same boat. Stop buying their games, we’re in agreement. No company should put out to us collectors a shoddy product at these high prices and not take care of their customers, if there is a legitimate issue. It is shameful if Stern has not taken care of everyone if that is the case. Only reason I’ve supported Stern, is so far to my knowledge they replace bad PFs. If that stops then so will my support of Stern. If documented, Stern should replace everyone and not make them feel like they have to fight Stern for it or that they’re being overly picky.

This is a rational post. But you don’t seem to have done much research at all. And as a point of reference, Stern does NOT replace every documented damaged playfield,

Stern’s domination of the industry cuts all ways. They ship way more games than everyone. And to an order of magnitude of buyers than are represented on Pinside (in general and compared to JJP). We hear of their occasional benevolence here but it’s hardly uniform. And the scope of what we don’t know far outweighs what we do.

And to DonkeyDick, just because you can’t take a vacation doesn’t mean no one else can’t. One reason I don’t have more machines is that I’ve spent a shit load of dough on big family vacations the last 3 years. And newsflash: tickets to Europe are best bought months in advance, or they get shitty expensive. I highly doubt Jack waited to schedule a family trip to Europe in the last three weeks.

-1
#1686 3 months ago
Quoted from Manic:

Ok I'll bite... just what IS the "worst thing that can happen to your game"?
I don't think people need to wait until their house burns down with everything in it before they can post some complaints on a pinball forum. Sure the language gets hyperbolic as people get worked up and others dismiss their concerns but hey... it's bare wood peeking out of essentially brand new PF's.
Kinda gets your attention.

Ghosting inserts? Seriously? Probably not in my top 15 of bad shit to worry about happening to your game. If it wasn’t for the flashlight examining diaper polishing brigade, no one would fucking even know ghosting inserts existed.

Tens of thousands of B/W games probably have ghosted inserts, and the clear hasn’t peeled. If the modern era ghosted inserts start lifting clear, than sure, it’s an issue. But when has this ever happened?

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