(Topic ID: 249691)

Wonka LE Sling Post Chipping in one month!!


By rs812

86 days ago



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  • Latest reply 12 days ago by Pinhead1982
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Topic index (key posts)

2 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #1403 Response from JJP from the Pinball Magazine podcast Posted by RobertWinter (73 days ago)

Post #1407 Transcribed response from JJP from the Pinball Magazine podcast Posted by RobertWinter (73 days ago)


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#839 78 days ago

this crazy that in this day these companies are having issues, I got a Batman 66 late last year and returned it back to the distributor after only 6 games when I noticed very similar lifting around various posts.

Maybe Stern and JJP need to machine a small step in the top of the playfield for a washer to sit in so the post sits a fraction above the playfield surface to get around this bubbling as well as look at there clear mixture as something drastic has changed of late. Once the washer is tightened down it should not affect the actual playfield, but putting a washer on the playfield surface is just a bandaid fix and widens the problem.

I think these companies are going for a eco friendly water based clear which is quicker and cheaper to apply compared to a urethane clear coat. Here are some comments from the auto industry - on acrylic versus urethane

https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/plastics-rubber/urethane-acrylic-automotive/
and this one talks of arcylic clears chipping
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/acrylic-vs-urethane/

then when you read into it the acrylic clears need a suitable base to bite in so a printed playfield artwork may have reactions to an acrylic clear.

#996 76 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Stern's transition to in-house playfields wasn't so smooth. Pretty sure we're still seeing the effects of their experimentation with IM/Beatles/JP playfields.

and batman 66's in the last 9 months

#1192 75 days ago

I got a brand new batman 66 late last year and noticed multiple pooling / bubbles that flexed with 6 games played until I noticed. Around most of the posts and where the apron came to the playfield.

IMG_0559 (resized).JPGIMG_0560 (resized).jpg
#1195 75 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

What did Stern or your distro do?

Stern never responded, distro just said if you are not happy bring it back for a full refund though weren't happy when I did

#1461 73 days ago

I have been trying to think of a band aid fix to avoid an increase in pooling by using a larger rubber washer or wider washer under the post.

I wonder how a wider 3d printed washer that tapers to the diameter to match a smaller slim post (9.5mm dia) but goes wider but tapers away from the playfield to still supports a star post but not touch the playfield. A steel washer could do the same but the star post may fracture if not supported.

In having a taper it could possibly hide the pooling and scarring on the playfield for the moment.

I know JJP does not want anyone to play with their playfields even though no solution is in sight, and really the clear on the playfield is crap all over if you are getting pooling around posts.

I put the file up on Shapeways and once you are a Shapeways member you should be able to download the STL and print yourself (let me know if not visible), or send me a pm with your email address and I will send it to you and you can then on share it, print and test. I don't want to earn any money out of this but it could be an idea to help people out for the interim. I stress I do not want to earn a single cent from this but Shapeways has their price on the part to manufacture and cover labourt but I have zero commission on this design but please download or get the file off me if you want to test this concept.

Added Note: at it's thickest it is 1mm thick, if people feel the special base needs to be thicker to clear the pooling just let me know and can do a 1.5mm and 2mm thick which will increase the taper angle and give greater clearance over the pooling.

pooling post base (resized).pngpooling post close up (resized).png

#1463 73 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

So nice of you to share and come up with something. No one else has a solution, not even JJP. Have you tried it on any table? What are the results?

no I only just designed it and uploaded for people to try. I am a mech engineer so I can't help looking at a problem and coming up with a possible short term solution. I don't have a recent game with any pooling issues so basing it on a theory and gut thoughts.

#1523 73 days ago
Quoted from Pinballmike217:

In theory it's a great idea but the problem is that a star post is mostly hollow. You are reducing support on the outside edge where it is most important. This would only work well if the star post was solid. It would be far simpler to use two steel washers. One upper one that is the same diameter as the star post and will support the outside edges and a second lower washer, probably a #10 size, to space up the assembly but keep the lower washer well within the diameter of the upper washer so the outside edge of the upper washer does not touch the playfield. Or, someone could make solid star posts and then only one slightly undersized washer underneath it would be needed to keep the outside edges of the star post from touching the playfield.

the washer idea does support the inner and outer of a star post,

Quoted from benheck:

Cool idea Swinks but it's not very "3D printable" that bottom curve would barely resolve on a machine and also not a good flat printing base.
What if it were 2 pieces? The slightly wider star post but with the bottom 2mm or so removed to stay above the rippled clear, then a shaft and flange that fits inside that to provide the actual base and clearance?
You'd print 2 parts but they'd both have flat bottoms.

you are right with a 1mm thick washer, the curved section is 0.7mm of that and probably would hit the rippled clear hence the option in increase the washer thickness to 1.5 - 2mm to increase the ripple clearance or print with a step instead of the curve but I was worried of lifting the o-ring higher. My concept would be printed flat side down and you would go for 0.05-0.1mm printing steps

Quoted from mbwalker:

I made a similar comment a few pages back in the thread. I was thinking along the lines of a metal standoff inside the post.
[quoted image]

along the same lines as Ben and I and yours was the first issued idea, but I was thinking with yours and then later Bens is you then require a spacer and then a custom star post so you may as well just do a custom star post with the step in it.

Quoted from benheck:

For a 3D print (on standard FDM machines) you want as much flat printing surface as possible.
So yeah a star post with a few mm removed at bottom to clear the ridge. Star post would have a hollow shaft inside.
Then another shaft with a bottom flange that fits inside the 3D printed star post. This gives you the clearance you need for pooling and flat bottomed parts that will print easily.[quoted image][quoted image]

as above the negative is now making 2 parts but the positive it keeps the rubber in the same location.

ideally in merging all these ideas together is if a custom starpost was designed to keep the rubber at the same height but with a step on the underside to clear the clearcoat pooling / ripple you would have a bandaid fix - now just to get injection molded ones is the next challenge.

#1530 72 days ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Wasn't try to point out I was first. Just thought you or Ben might have missed it, given the number of comments popping up on this thread. It sort of went unnoticed at the time, so I thought I'd do a quick Snipit since the topic came up again. I was originally hoping the star post had a solid bottom, then a simple, smaller washer would have been a great way to take care of the issue. But as I suspected, Murphy confirmed it was hollow. Wonder if a solid base star post was ever used on a pin that might work?

no dramas, you were the first with a concept that has merit and it did go un-commented

as for a solid post I think it comes down to cost of plastic and then possibly light dispersion.

#1546 72 days ago
Quoted from RobF:

I simply printed thin washers out of TPU for my TNA that had issues. TPU for those not in the 3D printing hobby is essentially elastic plastic with the properties of rubber. I think it's compliant enough not to introduce new pooling on the edge and it has the benefit of absorbing vibrations from the slingshot. Consider that material for any design that touches the playfield.

that sounds like a good concept and prefer over hand tightened neoprene / rubber as I worry about a post that can move if hit and damaging the playfield further out. The unknown is the forumla for the playfield / clearcoat that Spooky v's Stern v's JJP so the results may differ between producers.

#1547 72 days ago

just ideas merging ideas of @mbwalker , @benheck and myself

7 posts - post 1 and 2 are our control posts
pooling post ideas (resized).png

7 posts with a marking line showing the centre of o-ring rubbers
pooling concepts 1 (resized).png

7 posts with a cross section
post 1 & 2 - are regular posts sitting on the playfield and art
post 3 & 4 - sit on a 1mm and then a 2mm tapered 3d printed washer supporting the post outer edge but clearing the pooling
post 5 - sitting on a 2 washers a 3/8" and then a 3/4"
post 6 - custom post which is solid and recessed on the bottom side to clear pooling
post 7 - what I think JJP etc should possible consider for posts - a 0.5mm recess into the playfield in which a 3/8" washer drops into and the posts sits on the washer and then no pressure is applied to any playfield art / clearcoat
pooling concept 2 (resized).png

a zoom up of post 3,4 & 5
pooling concept 3 (resized).png

a zoom up of the custom post and JJP concept
pooling concept 4 (resized).png

in the end just brain storming ideas and happy to share files for the tapered washers or custom posts.

#1550 72 days ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Excellent work Swinks! How about some clearance for a metal post in the center for sturdiness (maybe it's already there)? Tried to find one w/a metal base like Ben suggested over at Marcos, but didn't stumble upon it. Then the post becomes more cosmetic.
[quoted image]

with the modified post (post 6) I made it solid throughout and made the centre post 9mm dia - so larger than the inner core of a star post so it is effectively like a skinner post so it would be stable and sturdy - so the metal sleeve can be left out

#1553 72 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Wouldn’t a single metal plate that covers the entire sling area be the ideal solution? Won’t look as good, but will stop the pooling problems.

the unknown is how will the playfield clearcoat react to the pressure of a plate fitted under the posts - the problem could then be transferred out.

#1901 67 days ago

as promised a few pages back, here are 3 x "FREE" bandaid fixes to "HIDE" pooling or "HIDE" any attempted fix.

I am not making any money from the Shapeways parts as it is purely their cost only, but if you become a Shapeways member the "Download File" for free is visible and you can download your own and make your own. The downside with the LHS and Middle is it will lift the rubber 1-2mm higher and may affect game play.

LHS - is a 1mm thick standoff washer that gives you a tapered clearance of 0mm at the 9.5mm dia to 0.6mm at the 18mm diameter. A star post then sits on top of this.

Middle - is a 2mm thick standoff washer that gives you a tapered clearance of 0mm at the 9.5mm dia to 0.6mm at the 18mm diameter. A star post then sits on top of this. It has a larger radius on the underside to reduce pressure on the playfield.

RHS - is the height of a regular star post but customised at the base with a 2mm recess so only the regular skinny post section (9mm) touches the playfield but the wider section of the star post hides some pooling while keeping the rubber at the same position and not affecting the gameplay. It is solid though out for strength.

Note:I do not have a newer game with pooling but once did, so know the feeling of looking at pooling. These are untested and based on theory but no reason why they won't work though recommend the middle or rhs, but you are free to trial (at your own risk - JJP warranty).

I hope they help, and send me a message if you trialed and worked.

is a 1mm standoff washer that gives you a tapered clearance of 0mm at the 9.5mm dia to 0.6mm at the 18mm diameter. A star post then sits on top of this.

https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace?q=swinkspoolingfix&sort=newest
pooling temp fixes (resized).png

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