(Topic ID: 249691)

Wonka LE Sling Post Chipping in one month!!

By rs812

86 days ago

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Post #1403 Response from JJP from the Pinball Magazine podcast Posted by RobertWinter (73 days ago)

Post #1407 Transcribed response from JJP from the Pinball Magazine podcast Posted by RobertWinter (73 days ago)

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#74 85 days ago

If your getting chipping, keep an eye on your movable outlane post holes. They are getting torn up too.

#99 85 days ago

The troublesome thing for me from the conversations I’ve had with the folks over at JJP regarding my POTC issues is they give the impression that they don’t give a shit and we are the problem for calling them out on this.

They will never see another penny from me, I don’t give a shit what license they get or what they build.

Nothing but a 10k f’ing turd!

Rant over.....I feel better now lol!

#129 84 days ago

At the end of the day for us end users of the product it really doesn’t matter why it’s happening because it is.

What matters is why the hell is JJP and Mirco just sitting on this and doing nothing to first rectify their production issue and secondly help their customers out.

#218 84 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

Okay...So I.am asking this now.....
Has anyone ever got an a populated playfield that has had chipping issues.
Because in would just send my whole game back and file a dispute with the card company because at least there u have rights and protection. But that is if u paid with credit card.

Straight from the horses mouth(JJP) regarding getting a populated playfield.

Not even possible according to them. The replacement PF’s they are offering for the incredible offer of $550 plus shipping are suffering from the same issue as well.

Go check the POTC thread, several of us have been trying to negotiate a better offer for those with chipping for at least 3-4 months no with zero movement by JJP.

Really disappointing to say the least.

#222 84 days ago

The chipping on POTC is widespread at the slings and outlane movable post holes(I lane and E lane for some).

Correct, discounted unpopulated PF was the official offer. $550 plus shipping so basically their cost. These should be free but I also offered $275 to split the cost risk with them and they balked at the idea.

It has been reported by a couple people that did accept the $550 offer that the new PF didn’t pass the scratch test and appears to be soft as well.

#229 84 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

My guess is that JJP accepted all of the Mirco play fields thus eliminating Mirco from any fiscal liability (Thus the $550 play field replacement charge). JJP may or may not have known about these issues, but were under a lot of pressure to deliver so they rolled the dice and it back fired on them. I'm fine with these companies having problems (its pinball), but its really disappointing they decided to take the "Fuck Off" attitude .... I wonder what percentage of these games actually have this issue?

Don’t businesses that outsource work for components have some sort of insurance to guard against defective parts?

Just because they signed off on them when they accepted delivery with nothing installed doesn’t mean they weren’t defect free.

#247 84 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:

There has to be a warranty on the playfields sold to jjp if there is a manufacturer defect. No business would buy parts without some recourse. the curing time should be on the manufacturers side as no playfields should be shipped until fully cured. Since it’s only happening on post areas, seems there may be a gray area of whether it’s the install of the posts or the clearcoat. I didn’t think stern used Mirco so if that’s true, to see it on Beatles is a bit odd.

Might want to look around some more it absolutely isn’t happening only on the sling post areas. I think I’ve seen every exposed hole chip on all the machines I’ve seen. I’m not saying every machine has every hole chipped just that it is a real weak spot with this clear coat. Sling posts, in/outlane posts and holes, scoops, under the dauntless there has been chipping, under the chest where the forks are, where the ball drops off the returns, all in low number of games played.

The whole game has a shitty clear coat is what I’m saying.

#248 84 days ago
Quoted from jarozi:

What's really disappointing is that Jack used to be all about the customer service, when he was just selling Stern machines. I guess it was easier / cheaper then. That used to be one of the main reasons you bought from him, the after sale service.
I have a borked POTC playfield and just have to live with it I guess, because I'm not paying $550 for the "fix". But I'll also think twice about future JJP's and already cancelled my Wonka LE order. Come on Jack!

I honestly at this point think Jack is just a figure head/puppet for JJP. There were some comments made during some of my phone calls and emails that really indicated that the investors are driving the ship and are at least some of them involved with decisions being made on how to handle this with customers. Again, just an observation I made from some phone calls.

#291 83 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Why on earth would anyone in their right mind buy from JJP if this is the way they handle customers???

I agree 100%, it’s so disappointing because they really do a bunch of innovative stuff but if they can’t follow through in protecting their customer base, screw em! I’ll spend my money elsewhere.

#295 83 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

Because their games are awesome and not all of us are suffering from these issues? I'm not giving them a pass here as I have said over and over their handling of this issue is simply wrong. However, their overall customer support is top notch.

I agree and their general customer service is pretty good but I’ve had it very good with Stern too.

This is a big problem and is where you can really shine as a company but there are some seriously bad decisions being made by these guys. Really, something has changed over there and it ain’t good.

#299 83 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Why are people trying to pass the buck here? This is the responsibility of JJP period, not a third party. Our money is spent with JJP directly and they have the responsibility of a warranty. No one else does. JJP is the one that takes our unbelievably high price dollars of $7,500 to $12,500.00. Still can’t believe those outrageous prices!!!

Initially it is on JJP but in the end if it is a defective product from Mirco I would assume JJP should be able to recoup a bunch of the loss if not all of it. It just isn’t happening at the moment and I’m perplexed as it is very bad for the hobby. The pinball community is a pretty small world and this certainly has a stench to it.

#304 83 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

Agreed. I'm not sure I'd replace over the puddling by itself, but absolutely with chipping and I don't see why that's even remotely an issue for JJP. The puddling is a broader issue but if it's not damaging the play field then I can see why a line would be drawn there.

You hit the nail on the head here.

Puddling, take preventative measures and keep a close eye on it.

Chipping and chipping in multiple spots needs further action from JJP.

We’ve sent multiple photos at their request and while they say that is bad and helpful in them determining what is happening, no action on their part to really help without me shelling out more money.

#383 83 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

I haven't seen anyone getting a new populated PF or free PF for GOTG, Beatles, etc? If I have missed them replacing all these problem PFs, please link it to us? I think the GB playfield is the only place I saw this happen, but haven't seen anything on the other titles of PF replacement.

I could have sworn within the last few days someone said Stern is finally replacing Beatles PF’s.

Not sure of the details, I have had mine since the first week they were released and haven’t had any issues and I’m over 1000 games played. Hopefully this is a good sign that I have a good PF!

#387 83 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

That would be great news if they are. They need to do it for all the PFs having the issues including JP2 now as well.

I hope they indeed are taking care of this.

It would be a pretty good slap in JJP’s face if Stern steps up.

Would really put the heat on them.

#394 83 days ago

I’d rather deal with a process even if a pain to know in the end I’m being taken care of at no cost.

The cash grab on replacement potc pf’s that are not populated and still f’ed up is beyond ridiculous.

#497 82 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Big picture, we're at the beginning of this issue. No use jumping to contusions yet.

Not sure, my last conversation with JJP was followed up with a shit or get of the pot email from them to order a replacement PF. I didn’t respond yet because I don’t feel like itis the correct resolution and certainly don’t want to pay $550 now if there will be some other offer later.

Really don’t like their philosophy on customer service.

As for not having the financial resources to weather this shit storm and do the right thing....if this is true than they probably ought to close the doors. Talk about poor management. Sometimes you need to take a small hit short term get through the problem to take two steps ahead and at the same time really build trust in your customer base. They aren’t doing this at the moment.

My other issue is that, there are an awful lot of people having these issues but how many are actually in contact with JJP about it? I’m going to guess less than 10% and that isn’t good.

We should all be hammering the hell out of them and our distributors.

#504 82 days ago
Quoted from ultimategameroom:

What good is a replacement playfied at $550 if it’s from the same run as the ones that have issues?
Complete waste of money as far as I see it.

I agree, I was just pointing out that they seem to be setting ultimatums on a timeline of accepting this piece of shit offer.

Pickup the phones people......let them know how you feel about this. It’s the only thing that may work in the end.

My distro even told me he can’t get involved and his hands are tied on this one.

#507 82 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

<blockquote cite="#5162169"
My distro even told me he can’t get involved and his hands are tied on this one.
This is a bullshit excuse from your distributor right here. Distributors are in place literally to be the representative of the manufacturer. This is why they get to earn a profit on the sale, and how they are supposed to add value to their stop in the supply chain. The manufacturers put them in place to be a firewall for any issues that arise, and they earn profit on the sale as a part of doing this. Any distributor that isn't willing to do their job for you should be out of business. I hope you can find a better person to spend your money with next time.

I’m not going to trash the distro because he is a good guy and family friend but I was definitely surprised by the response.

I do have to say, it’s amazing how it’s nothing but crickets here from people in the know who post here a lot. The JJP guys, the various distros involved, Mirco .....it’s like a big f’ing conspiracy.

#509 82 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Not sure what you expect the Distro to do, other than buy you a free Playfield from his profit on the sale?

Did I say anywhere that I expected him to do anything? The distro could communicate at a minimum on our behalf that there are some unhappy customers, the do talk regularly and the distro is usually more accessible to the customer than the mfg.

Someone said to get the distro involved and just responded that most of us dealing with the POTC issues since feb/March have gone through all the proper channels to date.

#512 82 days ago

They did try to speed production of everything up with the hopes of getting two games out per year.

Could this be an underlying cause for all of this?

#514 82 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I doubt it. I think the issue is that water borne clear is not a good answer for spraying on wood, and spraying it on thick is an even bigger problem. Heat and summer humidity are also probably causing the clear to not ever fully cure. Does a waterborne clear suck humidity back in during these hot summer months? You aren't far away from me, and you know how soupy it can get between here and the JJP factory. Is the JJP facility climate controlled? Are playfields being stored in a high heat/humidity situation over at the factory? I have a friend who is an automotive paint rep...I am going to get in contact with him and see what his thoughts are on the matter. I've sprayed heavy layers of solvent based Dupont Chroma on my playfield projects, and have installed posts 24 hours later with ZERO pooling whatsoever.

Valid points and certainly many good questions there.

The interesting thing with the Stern games is all the recent builds that suffer from these same issues is that I’ve seen more good games out in the wild that are defect free and this is likely due to the different vendors being used.

It would do the hobby good if one of these vendors was able to chime in on why this is happening to some but not all games.

I’m sure Stern uses multiple vendors simply due to the sheer volume of games they build but clearly not all to the same std. or are they and one vendor is just better at their craft?

#519 82 days ago
Quoted from Goronic:

I would 'think' that even though Stern does use multiple PF vendors - they don't have different PF vendors for the same game. Anyone know if they have different PF vendors for the same game? Or do they give the business to a single PF manufacturer for each game?

They must because I’ve seen location Beatles machines that have a ton of plays with no bubbling and same with GOTG.

I have also seen some Beatles machines that are on location and literally every single post everywhere is either bubbled/chipped or appearance of sunken posts.

Something has to be different or there wouldn’t be such a variance and the only thing that comes to mind is different vendors for art and clear or a really inconsistent vendor at his craft of applying this stuff.

#522 82 days ago
Quoted from ccbiggsoo7:

$1500 per game.

Is this dealer profit?

If so what is the estimated Mfg profit per game?

Seems the cash flow may be there to take care of these issues.

#524 82 days ago
Quoted from ChippyWonka:

If you want to view paradise, advert your eyes from the slingshots....

That doesn’t work on POTC, chipping in many many locations.

Let your game age a bit, there is no paradise!

#525 82 days ago
Quoted from woody76:

exactly this right here, if this is what we get then we should be able to buy direct from Stern/JJP or whoevcer for lower price.

I posted what my distributor told me.

How about everyone else? What are they telling you? I’m sure it’s the same lip service.

#531 82 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

Could this even exist in 2019?
I would imagine pretty much all productionsteps are automated.

Honestly have no clue but with JJP it seems every game literally at some point suffers this issue since POTC.

Stern has more good defect free games out there than bubbled or chipped so me thinks they do use different vendors even on same title or they would either have zero or very few issues or widespread like JJP with just one vendor.

Just thinking out loud.

#532 82 days ago
Quoted from BOBCADE:

I wouldn't be surprised if less like $300 per

I always thought the mfg cleared 1000-1500 per game and the distro 2-300.

$1500 to the distro seems really high

#545 82 days ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

And yet another question is if these issues are caused by a switch to water based clears then shouldn’t all the PF’s using this method be pooling/chipping? Confused by the fact some people are saying their clear is good and not pooling. The plot thickens.

Quoted from f3honda4me:

Yea I'm not sold on it being some change to the materials required by some regulation. As you pointed out, there are plenty of playfields being made today without this issue.

Exactly what I was getting at with Stern using different vendor and even different vendors on same license. How can many Beatles be perfect with no issue and all of a sudden boom we have a batch that is all jacked up. Different vendor and different process is my suspicion. Does Stern actually dictate the type of clear coat and process that must be used on their games or do they just say to x, y and z vendor...hey we need 250 pf’s made to each of them and let them do their thing however that may be? I’m guessing the later.

#552 82 days ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

For Stern yes but what about some saying their POTC PF is fine. How does that work if they are all Mirco?

There are people buying these and hardly playing them so you have to consider that.

People will say whatever to drive an agenda but as soon as they are affected they will be jumping on the bandwagon or secretly talking to their distro/JJP.

Issues seem to be showing up after about 500 games played at least that was the consensus early on with POTC.

I have yet to see one on location that isn’t all torn up and I’m talking in addition to the slings.

I just played a wonka last month on location, two weeks old and looked like dog shit altready. I posted some photos because i couldn’t believe it.

#581 81 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Notice there are no graphics under the sling, just white wood

I’ll take white wood and no chips, cracks or delamination everyday of the week all year long.

Seriously, if that somehow solves the issue so be it. At least the game doesn’t look all fucked up!

#582 81 days ago
Quoted from Frax:

Maybe, but that looks like a crack to me? Are all GOTG like that?[quoted image]

Can’t tell, looks awfully straight to be a random crack.

13,700 games played though and looks pretty darn respectable to me.

Just shows a good clear coat is possible.

#631 80 days ago
Quoted from Hemispheres:

You do realize at the end of the day you're just going to jack your distributor. You think we're going to get the money back? Ultimately if this becomes a wildfire we're the ones that will get screwed.

Well right now we are the ones getting screwed.

If I was a distro I would stop selling their shit until this gets sorted out.

Sucks but somehow the mfg’s need to get point and do something about this.

Not good for anyone involved.

#665 80 days ago
Quoted from mtp78:

Everyone needs to calm down. Problem is being handled and they will eventually make a statement. I support JJP and will buy a wonka.

It’s a little late for a statement for us POtC owners who have been dealing with this shit since winter and wasted countless amounts of time emailing and talking on the phone with JJP.

Yet no acceptable resolution to date.

So now because wonka is all jacked up they are going to do something?

Hopefully they take care of the POTC folks too.

#770 79 days ago
Quoted from Cgpinhead:

I don’t need to address your conspiracy theories, but let’s say JJP sold 1000 machines. Let’s also say that 50 have this issue...that is a low deficiency rate. In manufacturing that’s not a terrible number.
The reason I am suggesting a count is that facts and numbers give much more accurate information.
Also, I would like to add that “50” is a very high estimate....again, count the complaints...

Someone did this a couple months ago, it was over 100 pinsiders having issues with POTC. Remember, pinside is a small percentage of the overall pinball community, some say 30%. So extrapolate that number and you will see it’s a fair amount of games considering they only made 1000.

#776 79 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

You can no more say that the majority have no problems than we can say the majority do. Either way there are a significant number with the problem. See the poll here:
Over 100 with problems. That’s just on pinside and just people who saw and voted in the thread, so it’s a small sampling of owners to begin with. The number who voted they don’t have problems was around 50. So of 150 votes, 2/3 have the problem.

Yeah and that was the POTC thread and as much as I hate to say it, issues on Wonka seem to be even more widespread given how there are less of them produced so far.

#784 79 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

I don’t buy this is some regulation issue. If it was then why are there many playfields produced today without this issue from CGC, spooky, CPR, and others?

I agree, it’s just an easy unprovable excuse.
There would be zero games without defect if that was the cause.

#788 79 days ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

I'm gonna find out with my Luci VE which is 14 months old and has the wrinkling around the post issue. I seriously do wonder! I mean, why wouldn't the art and clearcoat start to let loose in areas of heavy dimpling? I don't have a playfield protector on to protect those areas where the ball travels. I mean Yikes!! Think of the future issues that could happen here. We're just at the beginning with this issue.

Strange thing, why is it that ripples on the JJP machines pretty much are guaranteed to chip and peel like an onion in time but on the Stern games ripples/bunching it doesn’t seem to chip?

Or I should say the chipping percentage seems to be much lower.

#819 78 days ago

They could take a slightly different stance such as the bubbling at the slings with fix kit and no other damage you have option of discounted pf.

If you have sling chipping(not bubbling) actual chipping and chipping elsewhere too then you fall into different category where free PF is warranted.

I have no doubt if these neoprene washers got to us sooner our slings never would have chipped.

#867 78 days ago
Quoted from pin2d:

Really good discussion about the playfield issues on the TWIP Podcast this week with our friends from Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, starts a little under 15 minutes in:
If you have questions for Ian from Poor Mans about the conversation you can contact him at Poormanspinball@gmail.com or he is captain-flint on here

Great info and nice interview until you said all of us who have chipping are crazy for letting it bother us. If it were just bubbling then fine, maybe somewhat reasonable rationale. But chipping where I can’t even move a post and install it just can’t be acceptable. Period.

You lost me there and I’m going to venture and say you were likely CYA since your a distro of all these fine games.

#870 78 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Well, the way I see things we have two options:
1. Bail out of pinball and pout until this blows over
2. Keep playing and deal with it as best we can
I wouldn't say anyone is crazy for letting it bother you, but I do think sitting out of pinball over it is an over-reaction. Especially since we're talking about out of the way places that are chipping, in most cases.

Who is bailing out on pinball?

I have yet to read that or hear anyone say that?

#875 78 days ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

Out of buying anything new, now , is what Derek means, right?

He said bailing out of pinball.

Don’t think anyone has said that but not buying NIB from JJP or Stern is certainly not bailing on the hobby.

I can see how distro would want to mitigate this because this will hurt them more in the near term.

#876 78 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Being into pinball is NOT defined by new games. You can stay in the hobby without ever buying a new game. There are thousands of high quality machines with high quality parts that have lasted 5, 10, 30 years...available to buy, usually for much less than NIB. Anyone can easily swear off NIB & still be having tons of fun playing & buying pinball.


Pretty amazing how all these heavily used Williams games are in better shape than a 10-12k nib JJP.

#881 78 days ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

He wrote it indeed, I just chose to interprete it differently than you , which is fine I guess.
Comes down to that we all love pinball , the hobby , are eager to try and buy new and exciting games in the future, but feel like being shafted with game playfields crumbling from the get go.
And arguing about it too, how crazy can we be..
Only one way to get things to turn around, if we want it to, that is .

I hear ya....I’m not losing sleep over all of this...it is what it is at the moment and I’m sure we are at rock bottom on this issue. Can only get better we should all hope!

#884 78 days ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

Good Question. I was given my Marco Kit from the original buyer. It had 6 star posts and 6 black nylon washers in it. I've called Marco and they are "checking into" the washer.
Here's what is WEIRD. Look at the slingshot under the BP ramp. Check out the Star Post at the top of the sling shot. This is exactly what many people are changing their lower slingshot posts to. This is Part Number 30-009005-13 in the JJP POTC Manual Page C-133.
I'll post a follow up if Marco can confirm the washer.
Thanks. Murphy

That post under pearl ramping is creating rippling too for most of us but don’t think adding washers was really even mentioned at this location. I may add one and see if it affects how the sling fires.

#892 78 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Who said that people were crazy for letting this bother them? What an idiot!

You really ought to give it a listen.

All good except the last two minutes when the distributor hat comes out.

Seriously, he should edit that part out because it’s terrible terrible optics in my opinion as a seller of these brands.

#906 77 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Yeah, the part where he starts yelling & swearing, pretty cringe-inducing. "Next week I could die in a fiery crash down the highway, and I'm not worried about, ooh, my brake pads have a little bit of residue and cracking, no!" A better cargument would be, what if the paint was flaking off around the door handles and a car salesmen yelled at you on a podcast to just keep buying cars, don't worry about it.
At one point the guest says "no else cares about that little ding but you." Here's the thing: I pay for my games, so my opinion is the one that matters. You know who else cares? Every guy I might ever sell it to.

Glad I’m not the only one that feels this way!

#914 77 days ago
Quoted from pin2d:

Yeah, Zach's comments are being blown out of proportion. On the podcast, Zach, and Ian and Drew from the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast discussed the clear coat issues for about 30 minutes (mainly Ian as he was an expert on it). At the end, they were discussing issues they've had with previous NIB games and were making a point about how some things bother some people more than others. Zach said he might be biased (as a distributor) but he thinks people should still buy machines, but that if you're worried about the clear coat issues to at least go play the new games on location. Maybe his examples didn't come across right but listen to it yourself, it wasn't him saying "people were crazy for letting this bother them".
Also as Greg said, Zach has paid out of his own pocket to help customers out. He has fun on the podcast and jokes a lot, but he takes care of his Flip N Out customers and takes this stuff seriously.

Quoted from pin2d:

Yeah, Zach's comments are being blown out of proportion. On the podcast, Zach, and Ian and Drew from the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast discussed the clear coat issues for about 30 minutes (mainly Ian as he was an expert on it). At the end, they were discussing issues they've had with previous NIB games and were making a point about how some things bother some people more than others. Zach said he might be biased (as a distributor) but he thinks people should still buy machines, but that if you're worried about the clear coat issues to at least go play the new games on location. Maybe his examples didn't come across right but listen to it yourself, it wasn't him saying "people were crazy for letting this bother them".
Also as Greg said, Zach has paid out of his own pocket to help customers out. He has fun on the podcast and jokes a lot, but he takes care of his Flip N Out customers and takes this stuff seriously.

It was a good podcast and don’t think any of us took a shot at Zach or anything.

They covered it, had expert opinion, was informative and it should have been left at that. At the end of the day it’s the consumers opinion that really matters right?

I think for most of us....this bothers us as we take a lot of pride in our collections.

Of course he wants people to keep buying NIB because he sells them.

#953 77 days ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Has anybody moved a post after the “washer fix”? Won’t there just be a washer sized ring instead of a post sized ring? Even if it prevents the ripplechip(tm) somehow, this is not a solution for adjustable posts.</blockquote\>

Funny you should ask. I just did this yesterday to give my machine a good cleaning and didn’t want wax all over my star posts.

Surprisingly the neoprene washers I bought from Lowe’s did not leave any impression in PF and if anything may have flAttened the rippling out as it wasn’t noticeable.
My chip is obviously still there and hidden but I was pleasantly surprised to not find more damage.

#954 77 days ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Has anybody moved a post after the “washer fix”? Won’t there just be a washer sized ring instead of a post sized ring? Even if it prevents the ripplechip(tm) somehow, this is not a solution for adjustable posts.

Did this yesterday to do a good cleaning of my POTC and surprisingly the neoprene washers from lowes appear to have flattened out the rippling with no further impressions or chipping etc...

They seem firm enough to stabilize post and absorb the impact but are softer than the clear coat below so don’t dig in.

Wish this fix was known sooner, probably could have prevented the chipping.

#1030 76 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Ok so Stern made 10,000 games last year and how may have chipping?
What % exactly

407 potc owners on pinside of which a minimum of 100 are reporting issues so at a minimum 25% if not more since many don’t report their collections and pinside is a small piece of the puzzle.

It’s widespread enough for it to be a real problem for JJP.

As for family holiday, high level execs are always available when crisis strikes, nature of the beast.

#1039 76 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

well less than 7 have reported issues to JJP, so where are the other 93

What a bunch of rubbish, why spew factually incorrect info, what is your agenda.

I think there were more than 7 on the certified letter recently sent to JJP and investors.

I’ve been dealing with JJP since April on this and know for a fact that many more than 7 have contacted them.

#1044 76 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

I spoke to JJP a few mins ago and that is the number reported to have issues via support Tickets
so rather than certified letters contact support and log tickets is the process
list all the support ticket numbers or it didn't happen

You may want to circle the wagon and go back to the beginning and read through the potc thread and perhaps this.

Support tickets were filed no response for weeks, they were inundated. I’ll just say one of the JJP folks you would chat with on phone or email told me verbally and via email that there has been a big uptick in issues regarding the PF’s.

#1046 76 days ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Do they make a ticket for these $550 unpopulated playfield offers?

Yes...you do it via ticket, must fill form out requesting the new PF.

I seriously wouldn’t do it until JJP makes some sort of statement because it may be difficult getting money back if they change their tune.

#1047 76 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

list the names and game numbers of these other 93 you claim have issues otherwise you are the one full of shit

Go read the Pirates chipping thread...

It’s all there for you, you want the info, you can do the work.

#1064 76 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

That great news, so since the numbers of playfields affected are miniscule, there shouldn´t be any problem replacing them all and make the customers happy.
Really great news and i do hope it comes with a promise?

Spot on 100%....

They wouldn’t have let this fester to this point if it was such a small number.

How incredibly stupid of them would that be if that was the case.

#1067 76 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

so lets assume for a second your correct and its less than 1% of the games. So your telling me that JJP is handling the warranty issue correctly? Thus far their solution is to sell that customer a $550 play field....u can't possibly agree with that solution? Who ever came up with that solution should be fired on the spot....if its less than 1% than replace the play field with a new one....the reality is its waaayyyyy more than that, and JJP can't afford to replace these play fields, because they have no "free cash"..... clearly the investors are sick of throwing good money after bad....Jack may be a good salesman, but clearly he knows nothing about running a large manufacturing business....JJP is running out of gas

Yep...if the Captain doesn’t reverse course of the ship, straight to Davey Jones locker goes the ship...lol

#1071 76 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

my comment was re Stern and the 10,000 games last year was the 1% comment
The $550 playfield was a guy who bought a used game which was out of Warranty, I am sure JJP will take care of its customers, the same as Stern will.

Wrong again

The $550 offer is the offer at the moment for all customers, several have bought already.

They sent me the same offer which I haven’t accepted yet and won’t until there is some sort of statement from them.

#1075 76 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Can't understand why anyone would buy a replacement PF
A) To fix a manufacturing defect that should be the responsibility of the manufacturer
B) For an issue they have yet to publicly acknowledge and say it's fixed 100%
And when they actually do fix this for good (which at this point I still have confidence they will) then you still need the skill and hours required to do a PF swap
Can you imagine if Ford had a recall and not only made you buy the new part, but shipped it to your home for you to install.

I agree with all of this.

I asked them if I drove my PF over to JJp in NJ if they could assist in swapping for me.

They told me he’ll no, asked about getting populated pf for $550, said not possible.

Can’t imagine attempting a swap on this particular game, there is so much shit on the PF....countless things can go wrong for the average hack!

#1112 76 days ago
Quoted from ChippyWonka:

REPORT: JJP is going to announce their solution via podcast.
Which leaves one to ponder, how will we see Jack’s cartwheel punctuation after the “solution” is announced?

Any idea when?

#1213 75 days ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

I'm going to come over and take a chunk out of the side of one of your Pong machines and watch you try and sell it to someone at full price.
Let me know how that works out for you.

#1306 74 days ago
Quoted from N80G80:

Don’t worry fellas every Wonka LE comes with this piece of paper in the top now![quoted image]

On the plus side it doesn’t mention bubbling, chipping and the pf peeling like a large yellow onion.

#1324 74 days ago

You guys realize that letter says nothing about chipping or rippling?

It does cover many of the other issues we’ve seen over the years though such as ghosting, crazing, dumpling etc.....

This isn’t what these threads are about and that letter doesn’t even touch on that the real issue.

Hope bout all us who bought games prior to this letter?

Seriously hope this isn’t the official response that was coming because if so they are really doubling down on their fuck up and could be the nail in the coffin.

#1472 73 days ago

No mention of POTC owners at all, what BS.

Let me guess, this so called developing program for wonka owners with issues will be a post kit and a $550 PF for those with chipping, how awesome is that?

Jack is nothing more than a puppet who I lost all respect for, what a shit show JJP has become.

#1483 73 days ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Who is Jack a puppet for ?
That podcast was torturous!

The investors, you could tell he was likely reading a prepared statement from the investors and legal team.

There once was a time when Jack cared and would go above and beyond. I think it’s pretty evident he doesn’t make many big decisions for them anymore.

Can it be Jersey Jack if Jack wasn’t there?

#1486 73 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

It seems that as quality control continues to slide and more issues continue to arise year after year, the disclaimer page that is now included with these games will continue to get longer and longer. Pretty soon the disclaimer will be nicely bound and sold separately for $100 on their website.


#1521 73 days ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

If you spend 10k on a new game and it chips, without you running a screw driver over it, then yeah you got a claim CALL THAT SUPPLIER DEMAND A REPLACEMENT! However most of the pictures i see show no chips, and people taking their games apart, saying this is what is going to happen. Play the game and if you have a problem or if ever there is a problem you call the supplier and talk to them directly. I do hope anyone does experience a chipped playfield from any supplier get their issues resolved. You should get a new playfield free of charge. However I have a friend with 6000 plays on his Pirates no chips, no scratches nothing... mine has 2000 plus plays no chips no scratches. There are lemons for everything, if you got one call the supplier but making drastic over the top comments like the WORLD IS WATCHING? WHAT?
However as the the WORLD is watching... people might have their homes destroyed TODAY in a hurricane and yes the World is watching and praying for those people.
To all the people on the Southeast coasts, I hope everyone is safe in Florida, South Carolina, etc. STAY SAFE!!!!

I’ve played 5 potc’s on location this summer and 2 Wonka’s so far. The potcs had various chipping and not just at slings. The wonkas were not chipped yet but had bubbling/rippling.

I’d like to see pics of a 6000 game POTC with no wear.

#1844 68 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

I doubt this is true
I am sure Jack would go bat for people with upper Management for a resolution

Well, for some reason it just isn’t happening yet. In the past I would agree with you. I just posted a couple of my photos in the POTC thread with game and case number like you requested we all do. It’s real and for the POTC owners going on 6-8 months of nothing now from JJP.

#1939 66 days ago
Quoted from apinballwiz:

I think the fact that POTC wasn't even mentioned during Jack's speech makes be think that the current playfield offer to POTC owners is the best they're going to do. Probably a similar offer coming to Wonka owners. Sure hope I'm wrong and owners of these machines are made whole when the problem is finally identified and rectified.

Over the last two days they have stepped up and are sending free PF’s to the POTC owners with chipping.

#1961 66 days ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

Not so on POTC, we are being offered old stock playfields who are no better then the ones that already failed us once.

That is exactly the opposite of what Jack told me yesterday.

He said they will be getting new PF’s from vendor soon and corrections have been made.

Said I wouldn’t get PF for a few weeks.

If this is a concern you may want to follow up with him on this.

#1968 66 days ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

On POTC Collectors Edition? Is that what you own?
And those who already bought an old stock POTC playfield weeks back and now got a refund offered from Jack, will they get a new and fixed playfield as well just like the rest was supposedly offered or did they screw up when they paid for a bad replacement playfield prematurely and unknowingly.
Are they stuck with an expensive poster?

I own an LE but can’t answer those questions as they didn’t come up but would have to imagine they would be ordering some CE’s as well since they are affected too.

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