(Topic ID: 249691)

Wonka LE Sling Post Chipping in one month!!


By rs812

65 days ago



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2 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #1403 Response from JJP from the Pinball Magazine podcast Posted by RobertWinter (53 days ago)

Post #1407 Transcribed response from JJP from the Pinball Magazine podcast Posted by RobertWinter (53 days ago)


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-54
#10 65 days ago

OMG the sky is falling... Calm down.

Jeff

EDIT: Just adding that I should have also asked whether or not the issue had been reported to JJP and if so, what was their response...

-89
#16 65 days ago
Quoted from rs812:

“Wow... Was that really necessary? What kind of deep seeded issues do you suffer from that would compel you to be such an —————?
Jeff”

Because the constant hysteria over this is really over the top at this point... It's hard from your photo to even see what you're talking about, not saying it's not there, but it's not like some of the POTC examples either. Should playfields chip? No. Should there be clear puddling? No. Are either fundamentally affecting the playability of any games? For the most part, no. I've only seen a few POTC examples that really affected whether the game could be played at all. What I see in your picture doesn't prevent gameplay for what it's worth.

There are two camps here and neither side is completely wrong nor is either completely right either. My JJP POTC CE looks like the day it did when I got it, I haven't seen any clear/chipping issues. Same could be said for a number of owners. That's not to mean that others aren't having issues, to reiterate this again, I'm not saying there aren't problems.

Call me what you will.

Jeff

-84
#19 65 days ago
Quoted from rs812:

Ok, I’ll take the bait. Which camp are u in? The “artwork peeling off a 30 day old $10k game is just fine” or the “it hasn’t happened to me so I don’t care” camp?
What say you Jack...errr Jeff?

Oh grow the f* up... Until JJP is given a chance to rectify the situation I have no additional thoughts.

Jeff

-11
#21 65 days ago
Quoted from mjruser:

No it's not, it's quite easy to see that the clear is not level and is being pushed out into a ripple from the post.

FWIW, I had to look twice. Never denied it's not there, but it didn't immediately jump off of the page at me personally.

Jeff

-67
#23 65 days ago
Quoted from rs812:

Deal! Thanks for the new quote I can use in the future.

Funny you had to go back and fix your own post as you failed to even explain what the hell you were talking about at first. Do you feel like a super special big man now that you went and dug up an old quote on a completely different thing? What kind of a loser even does that? LOL... You actually remember posts like that or did you go back and search my name? Either way is equally pathetic but yikes...

Again, grow the F* up...

Jeff

#28 65 days ago
Quoted from Vino:

Thx, haven’t been following the JJP threads.

Yeah so far to date, JJP's response has been less than ideal to say the least... For people with chipped playfields that, at least to me, should immediately trigger a free replacement play field (fully populated). For those with the clear puddling, but no other damage, I'm not sure what I think is fair or appropriate there. I've paid close attention to my JJP POTC CE and will do so for my Wonka CE when/if it ever gets here. I think that JJP should always be given a chance to rectify things before people go nuts over it regardless, hence my overall issue with this thread. JJP support to date has been absolutely outstanding for me and that includes a broken spring among other things...

Jeff

#31 65 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

Please - you're either working for them or completely flatlined in the head if you think chipping of a 9.5k PF on a brand new machine is overreacting.
You might be willing to bend over but others aren't. This is complete BS and sorry to hear it's happening AGAIN.
JJP - wtf. Time to address this.

LOL... Clearly you didn't read my most recent post but whatever... No, I do not work for JJP, I'm just a satisfied customer at this point who acknowledges there are issues and JJP isn't adequately handling them.

Jeff

-2
#36 65 days ago
Quoted from rs812:

What is with your vitriol? If you have no issues, why participate in this thread?

Okay so lets be clear, you posted in a manor that I felt was over the top. Last time I checked I can comment wherever I want to so unless the rules changed, I commented in a manor that lacked context I'll admit that I thought you were overreacting given that JJP hasn't had a chance to rectify the situation. You then decided, in order to prove some sort of point or whatever, to go and dig up a post of mine over something that actually affected gameplay at the time it happened to me (unless I'm missing something your friends issue does not affect gameplay) to mock me or whatever. The only way that happens is if you remember such a post or went digging either of which are juvenile at best so I commented accordingly.

Vitriol seems to be a bit of an over the top accusation but whatever... I have been clear that I think JJP hasn't handled any of this well going back to POTC but until your situation is given a chance to be addressed by them, I still don't see the purpose of this thread. That's my opinion of course and in no way does my opinion prevent you, or other members, from posting/creating whatever threads you chose. Think what you will, I admit my original post in this thread lacked any semblance of context and could be deemed as hostile but oh well, that's life...

Jeff

#38 65 days ago
Quoted from rs812:

Ok, as a fellow POTC CE owner, “we have an accord.” I interpreted your first post as somewhat flippant and terse in light of what my buddy takes as a very unfortunate situation. He also owns a POTC which is also now chipping, and we have all seen JJP’s response to that. I apologize if I read too much into your respnonses.

Fair enough, the lack of context on my part started all of this so that's on me. Regardless, JJP needs to get a handle on this now as it's been way to long and the response hasn't been remotely adequate to date. Hopefully JJP takes care of your friends situation accordingly which of course would be either a brand new machine entirely or a completely repopulated play field replacement paid for by JJP...

Jeff

#100 64 days ago
Quoted from rs812:

Update: my buddy contacted his distro. Distro said that JJP was “touchy” about pf issues lately.
So we shall see.

Odd response from your friends distro... The game is clearly defective. They can be touchy all they want so long as they rectify the situation which based on your post leads me to believe JJP may not do that...

I can say I'm not cancelling my Wonka CE deposit over this as I can only judge JJP by the experiences that I've had to date and my two JJP games are solid but it's pretty clear YMMV... hehe... Clear...

Jeff

#107 64 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I wish I had your faith....I've purchased several of their machines NIB, and love their games, but this is the last straw for me on NIB purchases from JJP....

FWIW, my faith is not unlimited... JJP better blow the socks off of us for the CE otherwise I'm out anyways. It would be absurd to hold out this long on CE details only for it to end up being a different color, and a glittered play field...

Jeff

#252 63 days ago
Quoted from dashv:

Replying from another thread here because it’s more appropriate for this topic.

Yeah, I found and read this entire thread with my wife after talking to a couple distributors about Munsters (bought a new Premium with all the upgrades) and trying to place a pre-order for Wonka CE and the Red 75th Anniversary WoZ.
One distributor didn’t want to take a preorder for the JJP tables at all and strongly encouraged me to think twice about JJP tables in general due to basic, repeated, and systemic quality control problems he’s observed with their tables.
He told me about the major headaches he has had trying to support his buyers of NiB JJP tables and how JJP just leaves him and his folks hanging while they kick out yet another new table with the same old issues. One dealer didn’t deal with them at all due to problems they saw others having. Another would grudgingly accept my preorder (tables were listed on their site) but cautioned I should be patient and expect to need to do some work beyond what is normally expected for a NiB pin. Another dealer had been a fan and supplier until pirates and these other debacles made it hell for them to justify selling and supporting.
After hearing the same story from multiple places I looked up the WoZ and Wonka threads here on pinside and I’m blown away at the type and number of JJP Playfield problems.
WoZ played great. So great I was ready to buy it on impulse. Based on that and Wonka’s theme alone I was
Ready to pre-order a Wonka CE.
But I’m not comfortable paying an electric cars worth of money for two tables that may have playfield curing/art problems with less than 100 plays and no support.
2 out of 3 distributors I talked to said if I had playfield issues of this kind with a Stern first, they are much more rare. Second Stern will usually swap it out.
(I didn’t think to ask the first distributor I talked to.)
Heartbroken because WoZ was a fun play. From what I’m reading and even the distributors admit, Wonka is a good play too. Possibly JJPs best. Just don’t expect it to be finished (code) and don’t expect the playfields to last half as long as tables from back in the day, or a NiB Chicago Gaming, or NiB Stern at half the price.
Just the info I have gathered all second hand.
Take with a pinch of salt.
If ya’ll have info that particular runs of WoZ are free and clear (see what I did there). I’d love to know what to look for.
Wonka CE isn’t out yet so who knows what state that will ship in.
I have to assume based on their track record no material improvements/changes to build/finish quality.

What distributors are you talking to? Yeah I know you can't really answer that... That being said, I have both a WoZ 75th and a POTC CE and all I've ever had to do to WoZ is add a cliffy for the munchkin play field (edge can get beat up by airballs) and adjust some VUKs over the couple of years I've had it and 2K+ games played on it. Outstanding game although I would't buy the YBR, it's a rip off IMHO... My POTC CE has required a number of things, tweaks if you will, but it's by far the most popular game in the house and has nearly eclipsed the WoZ in number of plays despite only having it 8 months. I haven't found any play field issues yet on either (about to do a complete cleaning of both so we'll see). I'll fully concede that just because I've had a good experience doesn't mean others have, no doubt... What I can tell you is for the issues I have had (other than the cliffy on the munchkin play field), JJP tech support has been phenomenal.

Still in on my Wonka CE order but whether I go through with it depends entirely on what the final CE package looks like and not any play field issues others are experiencing.

Just some food for thought...

Jeff

#267 63 days ago
Quoted from dashv:

Encouraging. I’m not trying to bag on JJP. Honestly painful to see all the issues.
Was blown away when 3 separate companies in the same day either said they were walking away or keeping back.
I know it sounds sketchy with me not naming names but I’m not because I don’t want JJP retaliating against these folks or holding back inventory. They still have a few die hard customers waiting on their pre-orders or open issues.
Ideally JJP should fix the underlying problems that lead to these situations. Maybe they are and it just takes time to see.
The dealers I’ve talked to simply do not have confidence these games will hold up.
I am encouraged by your own personal experience. If there was some way for me to know what made yours special and I could verify I got one made similarly I would happily pull the trigger.
WoZ was fun as hell to play. I wanted the upcoming Red 75th that still has the flying money. Wonka looks to be fun too.
I honestly want these games in my home. Just not with a playfield that’s never gonna cure.
Following this thread has given me a good understanding of why all this stuff may be happening.
I’m sticking around and commenting in hopes that JJP is watching and working on it. Also hoping to be here when we learn if/when the issues start clearing up or at least have found ways to identify affected playfields. Prior to purchase.

Totally understand both your hesitation and unwillingness to divulge distros, I wouldn't either for that matter...

Jeff

#293 63 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Why on earth would anyone in their right mind buy from JJP if this is the way they handle customers???

Because their games are awesome and not all of us are suffering from these issues? I'm not giving them a pass here as I have said over and over their handling of this issue is simply wrong. However, their overall customer support is top notch.

Jeff

#298 63 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I agree and their general customer service is pretty good but I’ve had it very good with Stern too.
This is a big problem and is where you can really shine as a company but there are some seriously bad decisions being made by these guys. Really, something has changed over there and it ain’t good.

Agreed. I'm not sure I'd replace over the puddling by itself, but absolutely with chipping and I don't see why that's even remotely an issue for JJP. The puddling is a broader issue but if it's not damaging the play field then I can see why a line would be drawn there.

Jeff

#307 63 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Not sure why you are thinking the issues are going to go away. JJP has not figured the issues out clearly for years now. Not sure why some report service is so good. My experience has not been that way at all. Lodging and sending numerous tickets, with no reply for months. Calling and only getting an answering machine or when someone does answer, the appropriate person is no where to be found or on the phone with someone else. Buyer beware is what comes to mind. There are games that are just as fun (or more so), without all the issues out there to buy.

Where on the doll did JJP touch you...???

Jeff

-3
#438 62 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

You obviously didnt have a playfield clearcoat issue because if you did they wouldn't have fixed it. You can try and pump up JJP all you want but there are lots of people right now that have playfield issues and JJP is telling them all to get f*cked! I guess maybe these customers must have whined too much and JJP treated them like children huh? I would never buy a JJP game because of the way they are screwing their customers. I honestly don't know how Jack could show his face at a pinball show anymore.

That's more than just a bit over the top dramatic, don't you think?

Jeff

-35
#708 59 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

I posted on my page that I started for the Collector Editions for Willy Wonka first
I AM OUT ON MY WILLY WONKA CE #12
For those of you that are wanting the #12 - I guess it will be available. I am taking a stance on this issue with the chipping playfields that or showing up on the POTC and now Willy Wonka (there might even be other as well). I have not had a chance to see the CE playfield and it might be amazing and all - But even if it is -- I am still out on my preorder.
I know we all have had fun with me being the #12 on the CE models and powder coating on the coin doors and me picking on Joe @ 3 AM and all. I am taking a stand on this issue on the chipping playfields. I understand that this has not happen to me and my games are fine and in good shape - But I have a serious problem with how this is all being handled.
So - Let me first say that I love Joe @ Pinstar and I would never do anything that would hurt him - He is a riot and puts up with my shit. He is my friend.
We got these chipping issues showing up on some of the Willy Wonka playfields and I am concern about how it is being handled by JJP with NO clear solution that is making the customer happy. I think a fair solution is a populated playfield. But that is not happening - Just giving out some washers does not fix the problem. Really the problem needs to be fixed back to the source and get this done before it blows up out of control. But, till it does - Any customer that is having a issue with chipping playfield needs to be taken care of and it needs to be done the right way.
We spend 12,500 for these games - A chipping playfied would make me PIST - I would take off work and drive that game down to the JJP factory and drop it off myself if that happened to me. But this is not about those that are paying more for a CE model. For me, I am lucky that I can do this - But I work extra long hours on weekends and nights to help pay for my hobby and boxing art collection. So, I am not different than those of you out there working from paycheck to paycheck. I work very long hours and put alot of time and passion in my plumbing company. So this is the same with Pinball - I have alot of passion for pinball and to see those around me not getting a fair solution and still upset about what is going on and having to just settle with what is going on with their game, or having to pay out $550.00 for a playfield that they should not even have to pay one penny for in my opinion.
Sorry - I can not do this and stand by and not take a stand - So Again,
I am out - WWCF Collectors Edition #12
JJP needs to do the right thing - I am not picking on any certain person @ JJP. But I am saying that JJP as a whole and as a company needs to do the right thing and till they do - I AM OUT. I am out on all games unless I work something out with Joe. I will still do business with Joe and I am hoping that this will be taken care of and if it does and I do not get #12 because I let it go - So be it. I will maybe get another number - Trust me @ 500 CE Models and with all this shit going on right now - They will be available. Heck, #1 might be available if this does not get taken care of soon.
I am not asking for a boycott - I am not trying to hurt anyone. I am just taking a stance and for me and I hope others will do the same to hopefully show JJP that we are all willing to give something up to do what it right.
JJP is a great company - But here as of late, they are not acting like one. They are making a big mistake. I am just one person, But I am my own person and I remember JJP from the early days and all I got to say is that if they will not take care of those having issues now - Who is to say that they will take care of me later. I dont care if a game cost $5,000 or $16,000.00 - The company that makes those games need to take care of the customers.
I hope this gets better soon, but till then - I AM OUT on WWCF CE #12 - I have sent my notice to Joe, but I am not asking for refund - I bought Mafia from Joe a couple months ago and might get something else and if not, I am hoping that this gets resolved and i will used it then towards a game.
Thanks to all and we do need to stand together.

And I thought I over-reacted over things... By all means, make a Mt Everest out of ant hill if you must but it's pretty comical and hysterical to see someone freak out over something that hasn't affected them. Yes yes everyone, flame me if you want but I can only go on what has actually affected me and I have absolutely zero reason to even question JJP or think that my WONKA CE will be anything less than absolute perfection. Now if the CE turns out to be an LE with a different color and some glitter than I'm out anyways simply over the absurd delay we've been experiencing...

I'm not saying any of this is okay or acceptable, I've been very clear on that. But, it hasn't happened to me so to me it's inappropriate and ridiculous to speculate on what would happen or what has happened to others based on what they chose to share in an online forum... Grab your pitch forks if you require, if it makes you feel better or whatever, but not me...

Jeff

#749 59 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Here you go again attempting to bully and attacking me when ever you come here to post. You’re the pathetic one and it never stops from you. I hope you find happiness in your very poor treatment toward me.

Oh would you give it a rest... Literally all you do here is shit on JJP. Just like I asked you in the other thread, where on the doll did JJP touch you..??? The act is old and tired and for the love of... Give it a rest... Oh and avoid holocaust references as well... Pathetic someone has to actually tell you that...

Jeff

-7
#976 56 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Sad to say, but this is typical from them. Experienced the same thing. They don’t want to talk to anyone (apparently unless your name is Richie), especially if you have a playfield issue. It is amazing to me that when Kaneda asked Jack directly about all the PF issues, all he said is, “I’m in Europe, service is spotty and won’t be back till September 8th”. That was his answer when asked about PF issues. Funny, it was good enough service to give that answer, but not answer the question. Kaneda said his answer was not acceptable.
Meanwhile Stern’s Zach Sharpe gave their answer that there is no widespread PF issues at Stern like other manufacture. They will back up the customer. That has been my experience with them, they take care of their customer issues.

That's simply not true. I've never had an issue getting ahold of JJP support. Ever. Seriously, what is your issue with this company and why do you come here and constantly bash them??? I mean seriously, enough is enough...

Jeff

-6
#980 56 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Telling the truth of experience is not bashing. Just agreeing with another person that had same issue of trying to contact JJP. If you’ve had another experience with JJP, that’s fine to report it, but stop personally attacking me. You’re violating forum rules, I’ve been told.

I'm not attacking you at all, that's ridiculous. I'm merely continuing to point out that your constant bashing of JJP is beyond old. To the point of trolling...

Funny, I've not been notified of this rules violation you speak of. If someone contacts me and says I'm doing something wrong and I need to stop then I'll gladly listen, but until that time...

Jeff

-1
#1088 55 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Perhaps JJP wouldn't be in this predicament if they did a more rigorous job on testing and quality control before pushing games out of the building? I would be embarrassed to be representing JJP with the numerous issues that early and mid-run POTC's had when they left the building. Most of those issues would have been caught at the factory if they at least did some comprehensive testing by hand before the glass went on. Instead, the finished product quality was that which would resemble an assembly staff doing a Chinese fire drill every day.

Then people would be whining the games aren't shipping fast enough... Literally can win either way...

Jeff

#1131 55 days ago
Quoted from HEAD_boss_HOG:

jjp and possibly stern will get sued soon i think
it will be a class action, and it may just bankrupt them (JJP)
as an attorney, i am thinking that its just a matter of time before some lawyer sniffs this out and smells the money, then its just a matter of time and determining how much its worth to him to represent the class.
it bums me out to think that will happen, but i really think it will.

Which would further demonstrate why attorneys are about as popular as used car sales people...

Jeff

#1336 53 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

Wow the thread "Will JJP survive past 2020? " just became real.

LOL... No... JJP isn't going anywhere and the hysteria will calm down... I swear, the internet was invented almost entirely for the purposes of generating great hype and great hysteria... Neither are terribly good for humanity...

Jeff

-33
#1343 53 days ago
Quoted from Coz:

If these defective playfields are the “new normal” I will never buy another pin from JJP.

Thanks! More for the rest of us... I just don't understand the massive overreaction here...

Jeff

-1
#1393 53 days ago
Quoted from Jackalwere:

Yeah, we know, you've said it repeatedly. Your lack of understanding makes me wonder why you keep posting this. Whose mind are you trying to change by consistently challenging how people feel about the issue? I'm not personally attacking you, I am just curious what you are hoping to accomplish by dismissing other people's feelings and opinions when in reality you're not going to change anything. Are you just collecting downvotes?

Great question, maybe I'm just can't stand the mob mentality? Some the comments in here are just so far beyond rational and reasonable it's comical. Not calling out anyone or any specific comment but the attacks on people who don't follow the mobs mentality on this one is just as irrational as the mob itself. From the people I'm talking to, sales are outstanding so this idea that Pinside is some sort of authority on the hobby of pinball and making a big deal here will actually get anyones attention, is just hilarious. No one here is special (okay I take that back, HEP/Chris and the very very few others like him are the exception). No one here rises to the level of importance that any of the manufactures give a crap about. So throw all the tantrums you want and send those emails, certified letters, or whatever else you think is going to "fix" anything if it makes you feel better...

Lastly, and I feel like I have to be clear about this again, IF I had (remember IF) playfields chipping because of clear pooling yeah I'd be pissed off. I don't think chipping is okay and I don't like the responses from either JJP or Stern to date.

Jeff

-7
#1423 53 days ago
Quoted from GnarLee:

The really sad part out of all of this is there is several people who have stated no more jjp unless they fix the problem and make current users whole. Some people will be just talk but I'm also confident there is at least 5 who will stand up to the not buying more until current is fixed. 50k in sales (probably a lot more) goes a long way to fixing the problem.

I seriously doubt that... You're borderline delusional if you think 5 people refusing to buy is going to move the needle at all. Perhaps that leave 5 games available for others that wouldn't have been able to get one if it weren't for the self-anointed riotous?

Jeff

1 week later
11
#2063 42 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

That is what baffles me completely, that there are people here that claim to be okay with damaged goods and willing to pay $10k for them. No other product on the planet has willing people paying these high prices and being fine with getting such lousy warranty service. Causes me to think these people must be JJP plants posting in this thread. It makes no other sense at all. If a product is defective, it should be replaced at the expense of the manufacturer. All other businesses work this way and are expected to provide defect free products to their customers.

Why is it that ANYONE who disagrees with you must either A, be a JJP employee, or B, be a JJP "plant"? Has it EVER occurred to you that some of us aren't affected, and even if we were, perhaps we just don't care? I can only speak for myself but my POTC CE is FINE, now I haven't taken out my magnifying glass and looked at every post on the entire play field for evidence of pooling but for what I can see I don't have issues. I'm not alone here. However, even if I did have some minor pooling I honestly wouldn't care if it's not chipping or affecting the playability of the game.

Chipping, and especially chipping down to the wood, should be handled by providing a FREE replacement play field which I believe JJP is now doing for those who have chipping. So again, put down your pitch fork and relax... I swear, you're entire tenure here on PinSide has been nothing but a never ending anti-JJP rant and if that's all you're going to provide to this community, perhaps we'd be better served without you? I mean holy hell...

Jeff

#2079 42 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

There are several JJP apologist on pinside: no matter what lousy product JJP puts out, they make excuses and keep asking us why we aren’t okay with chipped pooling PFs. Their mission is to uphold JJP and they try to discredit anyone that says otherwise, as they hold in their hands chipped up equipment, claiming they’re okay with it. Lol

Again, wrong. I'm not discrediting you or trying to discredit you, I'm simply asking if you have ANYTHING else to offer this community other than constant and incessant bitching about JJP? Anything? Anything at all? I bet if you looked at all 180 of your posts they all have something to do with bashing JJP... I don't have chipped up equipment either for that matter. So again, wrong.

Jeff

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