(Topic ID: 249691)

Wonka LE Sling Post Chipping in one month!!

By rs812

3 months ago

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  • 2,217 posts
  • 272 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 16 days ago by Pinhead1982
  • Topic is favorited by 48 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

2 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #1403 Response from JJP from the Pinball Magazine podcast Posted by RobertWinter (77 days ago)

Post #1407 Transcribed response from JJP from the Pinball Magazine podcast Posted by RobertWinter (77 days ago)

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#837 82 days ago

I bought my Mirco White Water playfield in April 2018 and began to populate it in July. I wasn't aware of the playfield chipping and pooling issues back then, and I'm pretty sure I tightened my posts down probably more than I should have. It's now a year later and the playfield still looks good, no pooling or chipping.

I received my Creature playfield in June 2019 and I'll be populating it in a couple of weeks. I haven't mounted much yet except the support rails. I like them to be sturdy, and I swear I barely tightened the screw and it sank into the playfield, creating a small crater around the screw. I'm really nervous about this now and I think I'll go with the mylar under the posts treatment as a preventive measure. I'd have to take the apron off of White Water to see if the rail screws behaved the same and I just didn't notice at the time.

Mirco says their ceramic clearcoat is "same as we use on JJP/Dutchpinball/Heighway games". I also saw this in another thread:

"The ceramic clearcoat is filled with hard invisible ceramic particles which make the playfield more scratch resistant than the normal clearcoat. In addition to that the surface is more brilliant and smoother than on the normal version. The ceramic looks more like a mirror than the regular one and is more scratch resistant than the normal version. Dimpling will apply on both playfields as that is caused by the wood and not by the clearcoat. All machines I shop and have in my collection have the ceramic version as the ball rolls smoother on these...It is as clear as the regular coat, you will not notice the nano particles."

I did decide to go with a NIB - I ordered an Alice Cooper from Spooky, they seem to have things figured out. Right now I'm steering clear of JJP and Stern, though I've had no issues with Munsters.

#938 81 days ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

#bringbackdiamondplate[quoted image]

Both of my playfields with Diamondplate (WH20, BSD) had planking. My CFTBL and SS (no Diamondplate) do not have planking. Not sure I agree there...

#967 81 days ago

thedarkknight77 asked Charlie about Spooky playfields over in the Alice Cooper club thread. This was Charlie's response:

"I happen to feel our playfields are the absolute best in the industry, and yes... we too like everyone else, had an issue. It only takes 1 minor change in any of the chemicals or process involved to cause a problem... sometimes the parts / chemicals we've used for years change and we don't even know until it's too late. Pulling the art back a bit was only part of making sure it never happened again. Far more to it, and unless you've made a thousand of these things you'll never know how hard it all actually is. The learning process NEVER stops when you are dealing with a natural product like wood being exposed to unnatural chemicals and situations.

We did all we could to correct the situation, make everyone happy, and made sure we took every precaution necessary regardless of cost to keep it on the good side going forward. I believe that shows on ACNC and the last multiple batches of TnA (which is perhaps the fastest most violent pinball game ever made). No pressure when we KNOW everyone is watching all of this like a hawk now and will keep doing so huh???!

There is a reason our playfield process is uniquely our own, local, and will stay that way."

#1285 78 days ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

Thanks , its more on a sarcasm note..
Ive expressed my feelings over the issue multiple times, and have posted text and pics of how to resolve pooling to avoid chipping .
I have 2 JJP’s that are showing up with pooling, it pisses me off, but not all day long.
I find I can read past trolls quite easily, they sure as hell wont help me feel better
A little playing with words can be tolerated, no?

The problem is you may not have resolved it. You can sometimes improve the original cure and the mechanical strength of two part epoxy by performing what's called a post cure, applying heat to the resin to increase the rate of reaction. It's not typically done on incomplete cures, although in theory it *could* work. The problem with a post cure is if the temperature ramp up and ramp down is not correct, or the post cure temperature is too low and not applied long enough, you'll create microfractures (which may not be visible to the naked eye) and weaken the tensile strength of the resin. Combined with a steel ball applying consistent mechanical stress, this may eventually result in cracking of the clear, exchanging one problem for another.

Your fix might have done the job, but it will take some time before you can know for sure.

#1286 78 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

So, does that mean if JJP agrees to send out a few dozen unpopulated replacement playfields and their PF problem is fixed for their machines moving forward, they're off the hook, too? Because there seems to be a double standard about acceptable remediation to this issue.
I see lots of demands for populated replacements of JJP or they're money-grubbing bastards. So in light of this post, are you saying that what Spooky did would be an acceptable solution from JJP and everyone's happy again?
(And I'm not dissing Spooky's solution, it was fine AFAIK. Just pointing out that there seem to be two standards applied based on what company)

I think what impressed me about Spooky was not so much how they responded to the TNA issue, which didn't dominate the discussion in the TNA club thread so I don't know how bad the issue really was...it's that they learned from the mistakes that their supplier made. Instead, they spent the time to learn how to do it themselves and then they went out and executed. That is impressive! My next NIB will be ACNC and part of that is because I like the way they are trying to continuously improve, which is the sign of a successful company.

What did JJP do when the POTC chipping and pooling happened? They went right back to the well and did the same thing for WW. They at least should have rejected any incoming playfields for WW that were too soft. I'm bashing on JJP a little (even though I love my Hobbit) because I want them to be exceptional and it seems like they are on a course towards self-destruction based on bad decision-making. I really hope they get this solved.

#1389 77 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

Thanks! More for the rest of us... I just don't understand the massive overreaction here...

Yeah, we know, you've said it repeatedly. Your lack of understanding makes me wonder why you keep posting this. Whose mind are you trying to change by consistently challenging how people feel about the issue? I'm not personally attacking you, I am just curious what you are hoping to accomplish by dismissing other people's feelings and opinions when in reality you're not going to change anything. Are you just collecting downvotes?

#1402 77 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

Great question, maybe I'm just can't stand the mob mentality? Some the comments in here are just so far beyond rational and reasonable it's comical. Not calling out anyone or any specific comment but the attacks on people who don't follow the mobs mentality on this one is just as irrational as the mob itself. From the people I'm talking to, sales are outstanding so this idea that Pinside is some sort of authority on the hobby of pinball and making a big deal here will actually get anyones attention, is just hilarious. No one here is special (okay I take that back, HEP/Chris and the very very few others like him are the exception). No one here rises to the level of importance that any of the manufactures give a crap about. So throw all the tantrums you want and send those emails, certified letters, or whatever else you think is going to "fix" anything if it makes you feel better...
Lastly, and I feel like I have to be clear about this again, IF I had (remember IF) playfields chipping because of clear pooling yeah I'd be pissed off. I don't think chipping is okay and I don't like the responses from either JJP or Stern to date.

Hey I get it, but you aren't going to do anything but fan flames and get people more entrenched, because they feel like no one is listening or responding and your post comes off as "I don't have a problem, I don't care about your issue and I'm going to tell you I don't care multiple times." These things escalate because the manufacturers have really said nothing and done nothing, including the expert vendor that's making these. The best way to diffuse a mob mentality is to get out in front of it, diffuse the situation and make people feel better by taking care of them. That's not happening. The worst part is that these are paying, repeat customers that are getting blown off. Why would a niche company do that? You need those people! We can only speculate why. That's why I think if you really care about the issue and want to make an impression on those here, you need to change your approach. Otherwise you're just pissing in the wind and collecting downvotes. I'm not affected by this issue at all, but I know how I would feel and like you said the lack of response to date is not cool.

#1513 77 days ago

Has anyone seen pooling where there's no art? The fix for Wonka could have been as simple as not printing art everywhere you have a post, like the slings on Munsters or ACNC. Do I give a shit that the art doesn't go under the post? Nope.

I don't recall seeing images of pooling where there's no art but I could be wrong...

#1911 71 days ago
Quoted from ultimategameroom:

I’ve been checking the mirco thread and find it incredibly stupid/ funny that the general consensus over there is for anyone with a pirates or WW issue to stay out of that thread where they basically beg mirco to make certain playfields for older games.
If he changed the process for JJP wouldn’t he have changed the process for all playfields he’s manufacturing?

No, the clear on my White Water and Creature Mirco playfields look thinner than the clear on these JJP playfields. JJP gives their suppliers specifications for the parts to be made to, and I would think it would be no different for playfields, but who knows for sure?

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