and Spooky on TNA.

I can probably put up with anything in pinball except the playfield being faulty, especially when for 30 years play fields have been fine...

Neil.

Are you joking?! Addressed is an interesting view I think if you poll those with chipped play fields they might have a different view.

Pretty much TNA games from 80->450 have this problem according to spooky so your TNA 151 has the issue and it will sooner or later show up.

Neil.

I don’t think these issues are about changing to a water based solution. Pretty sure that would have had to have happened a long while ago. Certainly in Europe from 2003 it would’ve nearly impossible to used solvent based solutions in any volume.

The area that was hit for this was car manufacturers I’ve been a BMW M owner for over twenty years and in 2003 I had an estoril blue e46 M3 and in 2006 I got a sapphire black M6 - the paint on the m6 was piss poor huge orange peel on it and terrible density. So stone chips a plenty on delivery my three year old M3 had better paint than my 10 mile M6!!! - the paint was freaking cheese. BMW then stopped offering estoril blue and that’s when we found out it was related to the change to water based paint, and to this day they haven’t resolved the quality.

Car paint has never been the same.

What’s totally ludicrous now is that most folks with decent cars in Europe put on paintshield which is made from the very same chemicals that are now limited in paint because the water based paints suck. DoH!

Back to play fields I though this was an issue from a common PF manufacturer like Mirko but I now think that one of the core ingredients in the clear process has become contaminated or has changed such that multiple companies are feeling the pain...

None of the manufacturers including spooky have dealt with this well enough yet. I would predict Stern will make customers good but the others need to step up and put it right with populated playfield replacement. If I was JJP or Stern I’d press the big red stop button in the factory until this was figured out.

Neil

There was +atleast+ 300 games affected and all they did was send out washers.

Charlie
LOL First off I’m not hiding behind my keyboard and I actually tried to come and talk to you about it at TPF but you were super busy or not at the stand and frankly I don’t travel five thousand miles to stand and wait to complain. I’ll be at Expo if you want to catch up then, you’ll find that I’ll say everything here to you in person “whilst looking at the whites of your eyes!”

Easy to fix any of my speculation by:

1: being specific about who was affected (so that second user buyers know what they are getting into - as you quote these games will outlast us all). There are still loads of folks who are in the dark.

2: being specific as to what the problem was - at least to those who are likely to come across it if not in public.

There is a view here that this was a minor problem - I don’t agree, there is a view that it was handled well, again I don’t agree. I am not suggesting that you didn’t do all that you could, but you could have handled it better - there was no direct contact and the only way I found out about it was when people started to post pictures of the damage then there was the washers offered - from what I made out (and you can go read the thread folks) - this problem was known and hadn’t been shared - if it had been then prevention might have been possible. People with games barely days old had the problem well after it was known.

But again those that know me know I am positive person and am super happy to admit when I’m wrong and if I am I’ll be hiding behind my keyboard posting that and looking anyone in the whites of their eyes saying I was wrong. I’d love to be wrong on this!

Charlie - I love TNA - I love Rob Zombie, ACNC is excellent and you have done an epic job to make something unique (although I’m not an Alice Cooper Fan!).

Yes I’ve got a new populated playfield that I had to pay for, yes you discounted it, no its not all a company could or should do. Within GB ghosting Stern sent me FOC a populated
Playfield.

I had to pay you over a thousand dollars to get my game back to how it should have been from the start.

Fortunately for me I have a good relationship with my dealer and he shipped it in his container free of charge (although some import taxes might be due on it).

I only got that I believe because I kicked up a stink on pinside. Because the only solution offered up to that point was a bunch of washers, which by the way I helped out all the UK folks by getting them sent to me and I sent them on to all the UK owners. I’m such a bad guy.

Regards
Neil

Hmm they are indeed!

They shipped me (and others in th Uk) a brand new populated premium playfield 5000 miles from Chicago to my house Free of Charge when Ghostbusters had the ghosting issue.

Well I wasn’t the only one; was I?

To be honest I considered the matter closed but I’m not going to listen to bullshit where people say it’s well handled when it absolutely wasn’t.

Neil.

Totally agree. I got a new populated playfield in the end but only because I paid for it.

Richie - expo is 8 weeks away and I’m sure JJP will update us well before it - let question is will we like what they say?!

Pretty piss poor but not unexpected response. Look at the pirates thread - three months ago atleast JJP knew they had a problem but didn’t think solving it for wonka was important.

when I noticed the chipping on my TNA that's how I first felt about it. But then in researching the issue what one finds is that most things that cause the most impact on a pinball is linked to the playfield and problems like that often accelerate the rebuild time. Some folks don't want to rebuild them and many folks buy a game knowing that in a few months they will sell it for near what they paid for it.

I decided that playfield issues on a new game was the line for me. A new game just shouldn't have playfield issues. Bang on the cabinet, iffy switch, bust node board I can take. Failed played; No.

just a quick question though - how many new in box games have you bought in the last 5 years @flynnibus ?

On this topic I don't agree! DOWNVOTERS START YOUR ENGINES LOL

In response to this and Flynibus reply I think this is a key issue. If you are buying NIB its literally a crap shoot on what you get. Take my last purchase - MBR. a few of them came to the UK including my number matched game. So you pay your £8500, so does your buddy down the road. you get one with the problems, he doesn't and immediately you've lost a wedge of cash on an expensive item. Thats total nonsense and there is no way that should be the case.

Having watched CGC games be delivered here on Pinside; in my view they, CGC, suck on packaging the game to avoid damage. The games are brilliant but there are too many posts of games damaged in transit. I predicted a number of them coming to the UK would be damaged and a number of them were. Fearful my own game would be one of them. But to those buyers they didn't find that out until after they had the game. My game arrived in mint condition with no damage. If it hadn't done I'd have sent it back for either replacement or refund. (the dealer here is excellent and is sorting the situation out).

If you buy second user then for the most part you know what you are getting, or you can go inspect it play it and have a look at it. All of the MBR games that arrived that are damaged play fine but a couple of them have huge damage including one that has a massive dent in the armour where the glass slides in. The dealer here is exceptional and managing the problem for them (he has also has stated to JJP that he won't take any more games until this issue is resolved). But the games play fine so they should just accept that? I see no difference other than its simpler to swap out a bit on the cabinet than on a playfield- so what?!

In my view that's the **price for the manufacturers of being in the pinball business** Given a choice of a game without playfield issues and one with, no second user is buying the one with the playfield issues and irrespective if you plan to keep the game for a while or sell it for the next new thing is irrelevant; the games should come without damage on them. I can't think of another industry that would find this acceptable. Even the LCD folks gave up with their minimum pixel failure rate because it was bullshit too.

Whilst I have a lot of games, I'm not a collector, I'm a player and here in the UK there are few good places to play. I want my games to look and play great, I run four to six tournaments or meetings at my house; I stream my crap playing too! Folks come from all over the country to play; I also host three autistic charity events every year and again I want my games to play and look great, but I'm mostly concerned with the playfield I don't want to be explaining on stream some huge cornflake of damage at each post FFS! if the cabinet has a few dings I'm less worried about that than any playfield damage; and why I was super disappointed with TNA especially as it was non-trivial to get one to the UK. From the moment I played the proto I wanted TNA when they announced it was going to be built. Hell yes! So I bust a gut to figure out how to import it to the UK personally.

I'm not going to accept this as the new norm because 30 years of pinball history says it doesn't have to be the new normal. Those that think this issue is not a big deal I really struggle with, but when I look at that it's usually those that will never have to face this problem and I understand that's simply human nature.

Regards,
Neil.

how can you have a two year old pirates? It was only debuted at Expo in 2017 and then was at least 6 months before shipping? Is it a proto?

so it must be a proto then... we had a proto at our club - it had no chipping also - something changed when the final manufacturing started.

Neil.

Sounds like the LCD warranty bullshit that some laptop people tried to do. The wrong answer IMO.

hell yes.

yup most likely.

that sucks dood, fingers crossed JJP look after you.

thanks for sharing. There is no way in hell that's an acceptable game. Its shocking!

Maybe you need to write it clearer. From my point of view it looked like you where saying we just had to lap this shit up, if I got that wrong then I sincerely apologise. I was comparing a dinged machine during transport vs the play field failures that we are seeing. From my POV they aren't any different and I want my game replaced.

Cheers,
Neil.

I own a JJP game.

LOL - when the zombie apocalypse happens and we buy something that we then don't get I'll give you the above. But in todays world, you say hey sir I'd like that thing over there that looks like x, does y and costs z. In the that world, if any of these things aren't true then I no longer want the item, or I want you to put it right, how that is unreasonable or being entitled is beyond me.

Neil.

has some sort of schism happened in New Jersey that stops them from being able to order more?

Neil.

Doing what they can?

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Going on some bozo podcast that says not a lot without an indication of when folks might hear something; refunding people they had previously ripped off on a defective product that isn't even a solution for the defect?

Holy shit!