Is it possible that "pooling pf posts" take the entire pinball industry down?

Maybe only Spooky is left standing?

There are a ton of former Nib buyers that say they aren't buying again until the problem is fixed.

How are you ever gonna know its fixed for good?

My ASLE and MunstersLE pf's are flawless.

Seems like JJP pf clear is inferior to everybody else. Why? Who knows.

If people don't have confidence in buying Nib games for that amount of money its game over?

it's totally unacceptable to have PF's "chipping" at any point, period.

Actually the flood of high priced NIB pinball machines, perfect or not, is living on borrowed time.

True dat, Reverend!

No doubt...its gotten out of control....

I agree the Bubble is about to burst - But I know it takes alot to make these games - I am buyer for many years to come - but you do got to say - Where does it stop and Buyers are going to demand top quality product, especially at these prices.

I am back - Been busy plumbing

Agreed, but i think the first thing you will see is a massive drop on the use market. When thoose fast buyers and sellers can´t sell, then they will soon stop buying new.

Its already starting to happen.....Munsters, IM, DP LE's all selling for $1-2K below NIB cost....I had a chance to buy a HUO (50 plays) Munsters LE or $6800, but passed on the deal...

Munsters values have tanked so much mainly due to code depth and code variety. If an update is released that improves the code depth / variety I bet priced will go up a bit.

Dead Pool LE's are holding value much better partially for the complete opposite reason, excellent code support and a deep ruleset. A $1k hit isn't too bad (Dead Pool), $2k though hurts a lot more (Munsters). BKSOR LE's also appear to be taking close to a $2k hit. Either way theres only so many buyers willing to pay the high end prices.

On the bright side a $2k hit over say 3 years of ownership is much better then a $10k+ hit on a new vehicle that you also have to pay gas, insurance, and registration for lol.

I should have mentioned CGC as "left standing". My MBRLE is beautiful and the PF is flawless

Forgot about BKSOR LE's ... I think the party is over for these high prices, and lower quality....these play field issues are possibly the straw that breaks the camels back.....people can't be happy taking a $1-$2K hit on these LE's ....

so are mine !

That's the norm...not a pop. It's normal "depreciation"

It's actually abnormal, not normal, to break even or better on a NIB game. The appreciation of game values in the used market does not apply uniformly to the games that were bought NIB.. especially at the LE price points.

It's pretty common for the NIB games to drop 500-1000 in the first year or two.. then stabilize the drop off rate. Mucking with things is the radically increasing NIB prices of late. There used to be more a trend of a HUO premium would be about X dollars... a HUO pro would be about Y... etc that would be pretty consistent across the different titles... stinkers excluded (WWE).

The only time games were appreciating was during the frenzy of 'gotta have it' and constrained availability. Once those games are all sold and in the market for a bit... the frequency of people are paying a premium over NIB prices is actually quite low.

It's why people like me are never in a hurry to buy NIB... there is no reason to (as a consumer). Just let the games develop, see which are worthy, and buy a HUO low play game at a discount if you decide you need to have that game.

I'd like to know what percentage of the pinball nib market pinside actually is. Ie if everyone here *really* did stop buying would it even hurt these companies??? or just be a few percent loss of sales.

Aside from the remakes I'll probably never buy another NIB game....there's just no reason to take the risk, and in my area nice used HUO games eventually come on the market.

Do you think that price appreciation on older pins is also a function of the price charged for newer pins? If the cost of the latest pin is moving upward, then a pin that is a couple years old and nearly as good will stay close behind. For example, LOTRs were much cheaper the day they were NIB, but they are worth more now because of the value they offer relative to a new pin which sells for $6k+. Why not buy the LOTR for equivalent money is it if just as good or better? I believe that when the price of new pins stabilize, then you will see more depreciation. Until then, the prices all go up (new and old). Of course, there has to be some limit to this insanity and that can come from saturation of the market. Apparently it has not happened yet, but it will eventually in my opinion. Pinball is still a relatively "hot" hobby at the moment.

1000% percent so. It's so easy for a buyer to justify a higher used price when they compare to what they would spend on a new pin. If new pins were still $3500... no way 30yr old B/C titles would selling for the same amount. They aren't 'special' in anyway.. But when they look at a new pin costing $5500.. it's alot easier to justify a used pin asking $3000...

The appreciation in the last 10 years has been the highest in that used SS-DMD era pin range for this very reason. Demand plus price tolerance increasing due to the comparision to 'alternative' buying options (new pins).

Basically as long as the new pins keep increasing... there will be a wake behind them that leaves a space for 'premium' used pins to fill. And when premium used pins go up... people will ask more for their 'slightly less than premium' pin.. and it moves down the line.

The flush of new buyers in the market has allowed that to happen and flourish. The old grumpy guy that says "I would never pay $3000 for Demo man!" is easily replaced by the new hobbyist eager to get their first few pins.. and that sales results in the "market says its worth $3k now...".

The inflating prices has been good for the strength of the manufacturers... and the idea of low depreciation has helped fuel the number of NIB buyers. But people who think their NIB games will all appreciate are gonna face reality at some point.

If you wanted to make money on pin appreciation... they shouldn't have been chasing the next TRON LE... but rather buying all the used pins at 800-1500.. and then selling them for 2000-3000 just a few years later.

On another note, I received an email from Jack indicating he is sending me a POTC playfield from a new batch being made in Germany. I know some of you are not satisfied with this solution. I can only speak for myself in saying that I am absolutely happy. This community has given me the (perhaps errant) belief that I could actually do a swap on a newer machine. I have fixed my own pins for the past 15 years and have had no issues taking things apart and properly reconstructing them. A swap would be a new challenge.

Regardless, the way I see it, I can play the hell out of my POTC and then do the swap when the day comes. No worries here.

Meanwhile, I wish all of you the best in getting the solution you need.

Okay, now I have a question: Would any of you have concerns about hanging a new playfield on a wall if I was planning on using it later in a machine? Will they warp?

I would appreciate any advice.

No, but they might drip ...

Okay, that was really funny. Well played!

I've honestly worried if there's any concern leaving playfields in the box upright.

Leaving them flat would take so much room up in my house.

Any thoughts folks?

I believe play fields should be stored flat and with playfield rails attached if possible.

I’ve had pf’s hanging for years. Great way to store em.

Try to avoid direct sunlight though, it might fade the colors.

I know that some people store them flat (horizontally) using sheets of glass in between the playfields to keep them from warping. lying them vertically (on their sides, is another alternative). however, upon receipt, I would definitely take it out of the box and let the playfield "breath", giving the clear coat time to fully cure.

additionally, you do want to keep them out of sunlight, away from heat registers, cold air returns

I'd almost be afraid to store anything on top of them long term. How many times have you taken something out of a drawer years later, only to find out it has laminated itself to whatever else it was touching. I would think with the current issues of soft or even partially soft clear, the chances of this happening are going to greatly increase.

Did you do mylar rings on top of the pooling clear coat?

Yes, mainly to prevent them from chipping, and if they did, to hold everything together in place.

I want take this moment and say again Thanks & I am sorry to:

Vyzer2 - David

He reached out to me and apologize on his comments and to tell you the truth - I really needed to be the one that apologizes. I am the one that attacked him directly on this site and got banned for the first time from Pinside for 24 hours.

I just have a passion for this Hobby and I have been away for some time and when this was going on with JJP and with my research and reaching out to people - I have time invested and it was a big issue for me to step out on my purchase of my Willy Wonka #12 CE. But I wanted to take a stand for what I felt that was right. I have since voice my comments about JJP making the right steps forward and I am back in on the CE Model.

What I love about Pinside is that this is a site where anything is possible in the pinball world. If you have a problem.....There are those that will help you along the way to get it fixed or give possible solutions. Just make a post and voice you concerns of if you need help and most of the time its a matter of minutes and someone is out there giving you the solution or giving advise.

There are times that we all joke around and get off topic on something that sometimes needs to stay on topic and focus for what the problem is all about. I can tell you that Yes there are those that feel that Pinside is not important and just a joke - But I don't see it that way. I think we all need a place like Pinside and if it was not this site - I know that I would be lost on alot of things.

So again, I apologize to David and I also apologize to any one else and to Pinside as well - I will do better as a member and show my support for this amazing site. I want to share my passion for this hobby and for those of you out there that are in my neck of the woods - Stop by and say Hi and come by my office and enjoy my collection - It truly is a great place and if you want we can talk about plumbing as well.

Thanks again everyone - Richie Wrench

Question do the blue toilet drop ins really degrade the plastic inner workings of a toilet?My wife says no i say yes. Thanks in advance!

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ONLY BECAUSE YOU ASK - I don't want to get off topic on this page - but Yes - They are harmful and can clog the ports under the rim as well. NEVER USE THEM!!!!!

In my eyes the people who expected to keep making $1000 to $2000 profit were the issue

Sorry this is off topic but could save others from costs and unnecessary repairs. Yes, the chemicals in those tabs can cause damage. I had to repair several toilets that had the tabs used in them. Read the fine print on toilet repair parts and many will tell you NOT to use the tabs because of damage to the plastic/rubber parts. It sucks because the chlorine tabs are nice. But having to replace toilet parts every two years sucks. Oh and I am not in the plumbing business. Just learned the hard way.

Now back to your normal pinball channel!

Well.... as there really is nothing new to share or talk about regarding WWCE some off topic curiosity. In your years of plumbing business have you ever run into a repair job that you walked out saying “oh hell No”! Lol. I’d imagine you’ve seen some crazy ass literal Sh1t. Lol

Alright Pal, take this to the toilet thread.

Oh, this IS that thread.

Carry on.

Back in on a CE. Your stand was short but I applaud you for your efforts.

No Elvira or GnR for me unless I get my JP and Wonka fixed. If I never buy another NIB game from these manufacturers I could live with that.

There appears to be some high profile cases like this that are being addressed or phoned. This is to *appear* to be addressing the problem. There are many others who have submitted tickets or requested refunds for PF's that they purchased as backup (JJP) that were led to believe they would be refunded but haven't been refunded...or have to try try try and try again before their problem is addressed (I've heard 6 months or more from beginning to end in some cases). Crazy stuff.

"Serve Richie Wrench and you've served everybody"...at least in the court of public opinion. I'm not falling for it, one moment. I'm not surprised by anything in this industry. IMO pinball is great stuff but the manufacturers are pretty sketchy. I'm purchasing used, probably not purchasing NIB again. And purchasing old games. It's less stressful.

If you purchase NIB from Stern or JJP at this time, Caveat emptor!

As long as we're into this - what alternative is there for chlorine tablets to keep mold under the rim under control? We are in an area prone to mold, but the only thing that works is the bleach tablets - but they destroy the tank flapper and fill valve asembly seals every 18 months or so, requiring replacement. Is them's the breaks? Or is there some better way...?

I think we need a splinter site, Poopside

I made these to cover any damage to the playfield. Peppermint candies.

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Great idea!

I agree, that’s a great idea. Looks like it is part of the play field art.

That looks fantastic!! Please sell these!! Are they just stickers on the washers??

Just a decal on a washer. Easy to do. Use snippet and outline one candy round, copy and paste into a word document, right click the picture and set the parameters to the same size as your washer, uncheck option for keeping relative size, insert sticker paper, print the job. You should use self adhesive laminate over the top and then an exacto blade to cut it out. Stick and apply.
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The colors are bright and vibrant, I spent extra on the stickers. Going cheap would not be good. If anyone wants them just PM me

Also these stickers arent cut or done by me, I paid a company to make them. Perfectly round and perfect If anyone just wants the stickers I can ship them without the washers.

Fantastic? All I see is a poker chip underneath a post. I guess that's better than looking at pooling or chipping clear.

what poker chips have a pinwheel design?

The defunct Eddie's Fabulous 50's Casino in Reno IIRC......