Clearly you have trouble reading...I never said anything of the sort. I simply said it’s not as straightforward as some make it out to be. Try again, you actually may say something factual eventually...god knows you had enough tries.

When can we see that sweet JJP collection of yours?!? I’m totally sure you’re an JJP pin owner and have the purest of intentions in your crusade...

It's a lot of work/labor to do it yourself but certainly doable for many on this forum. In a perfect world you shouldn't have to of course (and someone would just show up to swap your machine with a new one) but due to low margins, freight and distance, that is just not going to happen. Sending out new PF's for free to those with chipping is JJP's best way to save face (albeit a bit late and poorly executed to start... better late than never though).

I just hope they get all this figured out before toy story

I'm sure the turbo K car had it's fans and plenty of soccer moms drove those vans, but looking back he was quite a salesman considering the actual product he was peddling.

Edit- Had. lol. I've got one customer that still has four or five turbo K cars. lol

One guy in this thread already said he took it to his CC company and they took care of it to his satisfaction.

Easy? Convenient? No. Viable resolution for the committed and determined? Seems so.

Chrysler helped revolutionize the industry. Saved everybody 5 MPG.

So it looks like things are going get better - Nice. Glad to hear some people have had their money refunded and are going to be getting future playfields once those are done.

Jack IS doing the right thing. Plain and simple. The man is making calls to customers HIMSELF. Hell, I’m sure he’s even delivering play fields personally to those who are local also! That’s just the kind of guy he is. An act of goodwill to that extent is unmatched, and it deserves recognition. No lip service, just action.

I’m glad he stepped up. His company will continue to have a bright future. I wish him all the best knowing that HE WILL weather this storm.

Not so on POTC, we are being offered old stock playfields who are no better then the ones that already failed us once.

OMG dude really? All it takes is a personal call from Jack and you are all giddy and happy now? Do you think he’s calling people because he’s a great guy? Hell no, he’s calling people because his business is going down the shitter and he’s trying to save it! Its amazing how some people can be made happy about getting screwed on a 10K game just from a phone call from Jack! If he called me i would be giving him a f*cking ear full instead of kissing his ass!

If you contacted JJP regarding your playfield issues I bet he will call you.

That is exactly the opposite of what Jack told me yesterday.

He said they will be getting new PF’s from vendor soon and corrections have been made.

Said I wouldn’t get PF for a few weeks.

If this is a concern you may want to follow up with him on this.

On POTC Collectors Edition? Is that what you own?

And those who already bought an old stock POTC playfield weeks back and now got a refund offered from Jack, will they get a new and fixed playfield as well just like the rest was supposedly offered or did they screw up when they paid for a bad replacement playfield prematurely and unknowingly.
Are they stuck with an expensive poster?

Truth....I watched a little of that tour video, and he was pretty clear about his feelings on play fields. Cant wait to hear about your conversation with Stern...at the moment it sounds like their sweeping their play field issues under the rug....it might not be much, but at least JJP is admitting theres a problem (kind of)

Why would he contact Jack about all of his Stern playfields?

Let us know when Gary Stern calls you in person about a problem with your machines. Not seeing why you are angry at JJP, as you don’t own one. And yes, Jack seems like a great guy every time I’ve interacted with him.

They were making more CE playfields, why not call and find out what the policy is? I held off on getting the playfield replacement to see if the clear issue would be resolved better, but was considering sending one to Ron Kruzman to sand down the clear and apply his own.

Did Jack put out a statement on the clearcoat issue?Do you have a link,all I heard was the snippet from Pinball News

Literal lol. It’s amazing that the loudest voices in this thread are mostly the same people who have said they would never own a JJP product....it’s incredible the energy and time they have for a product they have no interest in...

I own an LE but can’t answer those questions as they didn’t come up but would have to imagine they would be ordering some CE’s as well since they are affected too.

But you didn’t buy the game from stern/jjp... you bought from a distributor...

It doesn’t matter what “side” you are on,... you don’t get to makeup facts to support your POV. He was calling out your incorrect statements about the age of this problem.

Number one, you're just making a wild guess about him personally showing up to local people and attribuiting this false magnanimity to him as if it were real...that's ridiculous. He doesn't get "good will credits" for something that you're only assuming happens.

Number two....unmatched? LOL. I've had *higher* than that level of service, without having to fight for it, from GAP on a USED GAME that I bought from them. That dude went to bat and handled all the BS with the shipping company that I otherwise would've had to deal with when they smashed up a perfectly great sample Jackbot. Not only did he get his money back for shipping through them, he got me HUGE compensation that more than paid for my time and having to pull the playfield, reclear it, and put it back together. It was ridiculously good. All I had to do was sit back for a few months and let it happen.

..............Meanwhile....it's taken Jack (and Stern!) months/years to collectively pull their heads out of their buttholes, and I'm not really sure they're actually doing it, or if they're just trying to shut people up as quickly as possible to do damage control. Nobody will really know the truth until games are coming out of the factories without these issues.

Exact age aside JJP and Stern have known about this problem for some time and were knowingly sending out machines with bad PF’s. Once you know you shut it down until you figure it out. Sorry if that’s bad for bottom line but if you knowingly put out a defective product you are liable in a court of law. Truth. The customers caught them putting out a defective product. That’s why these manufacturers are going to change course. It’s certainly not because they are nice for Christ sake. You and others trying to nitpick certain facts can’t cloud the big picture here. The manufacturers where trying to put one over on its customers and got caught doing it. When the manufacturers didn’t fix the PF issue as soon as THEY noticed it they were in the wrong. That’s where the gloves come off for me personally.

No, again, you have flawed idea that 'if you counter me, you are against the big picture'. No, just because you are on the correct path, that doesn't mean you get to just make up whatever you want to help justify it.

Even the righteous need to be accurate. Hyperboyle, flailing, and flat out wrong facts, do not aid the cause -- they undermine it.

True however some people will use small inconsistencies to try to discredit people when they are losing the larger discussion at hand. Maybe he didn’t have the time frame on this issue exactly right but the time frame was long enough to have it on POTC and then continue with WW. Plenty long enough to be the wrong thing to do by JJP. Overall he had it right because they knew long enough and did nothing about it.

simply put.. accuracy matters, even if you are still pointed in the correct direction. That's all he was correcting, and people piled on calling him a troll/etc for fighting to keep things honest. That's garbage. Pointing in the right direction does not give carte blache to munge the details.

The "the details don't matter.. I'm still right.." or "Ok, I was wrong, but I'm still right.." mantra just leads to inflated stuff and in the forum world.. just leads to the telephone game where one mistake is repeated and exaggerated by 3 more people, and it goes on and on.

It's good to see some progress here... but I do wish JJP was a bit more forthcoming on the topic.

Free PFs shows action but we don't know if that's a pass through from Mirco, or a real support action.

I wonder what people's reactions would be if JJP offered these options

1) A free shipped bare PF
2) A cash refund of some 'depreciation' amount.. let's call it $600
3) A discount on a future title.. say.. $1000 off MSRP
4) A buy-back on their game

The buy-backs could then be refurbished for 'open box' prices...

I think all of those would be meaningful.. but I bet most people don't want to actually give up their game, so would hold out for a PF swap. If JJP could prepare to build enough games.. PF swaps could be more economical too. I wonder if arranging common distribution points would help too (imagine GEX, Pinstar, etc) would be hubs at major shows, etc.

Accuracy certainly matters. I consider myself very detail oriented. However in this case what is the difference between knowing you had the clear issue on the previous title and didn’t fix it for the next and knowing you had the issue for 2 years. You say the poster was just trying to keep him honest but it seems like he was trying to discredit him to me. I have seen it many times on forums. So have you.

Who-Dey stop making so much sense! Haha

People complain he doesn't own or never has owned a JJP and therefore shouldn't talk...take it from me then.

I own two jjp's, owned DI and POTC and if they didn't completely drop the ball on Wonka, I would have owned that too.

Bottom line, although I really do appreciate Jack calling people there is absolutely NO f'n way JJP is doing this until we the Pinball community threw it in their face for countless days. Don't believe me? Look at Wonka..... They didn't do shit. Literally just produced the same BS pfs and guess what they did for the potc owners.... Nothing

Now we're all calling them out and they finally starting doing something.

Ok good to see but for the guys kissing their ass bc Jack got on the phone to call people? It's called jjp is scared shitless and rightfully so and it's people like Who-Dey who continue to call this BS out that should be thanked for this reaction.

Unfortunately too much of the "industry" wants us to continue buying NIB. Well F that.

Pinball people - continue uniting by not buying anything until these companies step it up and fix this and remember the shills that told you to do otherwise.

To hell with nib for a really long time. My faith is gone. Whodey is always right.

For some reason there are a few people that think im just trying to throw JJP under the bus and thats just not true at all. I am no happier with Stern right now than i am with JJP. For anyone that wants to know why im here, its really simple, #1 i have friends that own POTC and they are not being taken care of by JJP, basically being told we aren't fixing your game that has a defective playfield that you bought from us.

#2 i am calling them out because they are wrong and unethical about how they are treating their customers. Is Stern any better? I think so. Will Stern take care of my two playfields that have pooling and one has chipping? I don't know, i sure hope so. If they don't im not going to keep it a secret or try and make excuses for them i can tell you that much.

And for the people that are worried about putting JJP or Stern out if business, sorry but thats not my problem. I personally have 2 pinball machines right now that have a combined value of 15 thousand dollars that have in my opinion defective playfields in them and im not happy about it. I am an average guy busting my nuts in a factory everyday and i just cant write this off for a loss and act like its no big deal. It took me a hell of a long time to save up that money to buy those games. I have bought 7 new Sterns over the last few years and i am a good customer. I hope that they treat me as such on these 2 games.

Agree with you and hope you get your issues resolved. Judging Stern by the past, think they will take care of you. Your fortunate to not have this trouble by owning JJP, because getting your issues taken care of with JJP, is another story it appears.

He needs to figure it out. And he will. If not, the business will crumble. A bit of self preservation to help others in need isn’t all that awful. Admittedly , I help others at my job solely because it’ll effect how my family is fed. So long as he is addressing the concern, no matter how small, he has to start somewhere. I have NOTHING TO GAIN by “kissing Jacks ass”. That is flat out silly.

Don’t get me wrong. There’s no way I’m going near ANYONES GAMES, his included, until this shit is resolved, fully. My games are always pitch perfect. My OCD will not allow me to own anything less than a flawless machine.

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I never said that you were kissing his ass. I was just talking about how people seem to be star struck because Jack is calling them. Some people are even willing to share some of the cost with him so he doesn't lose so much money. This is a company backed by billionaire investors.if im not mistaken, why the hell would anyone be willing to take a hit financially for them?

I bought a LOTR LE from Jack before he was JJP. I also waited 3 years for my WOZECLE. I was involved on RGP when Jack and Gary had the battle Royale, and Gary told him, ‘ you want to be a pinball maker, c’mon in, the waters cold’.

I’ve spoken to Jack twice over the years. I’m hardly star struck. Those calls were when the hell are you gonna build my machine you took my money on, and congrats on WOZ, it’s pretty.

Stern I’ve called a dozen times, 50% for build Jaws! and 50% to talk to Pat Powers.

Regarding credit card chargebacks. Here is the correct process.
Contact seller explaining the issues/problems.
If no satisfactory response within 1 week, contact CC for start of chargeback.
CC will call you (possibly email you) and ask about the specific problem.
They will IMMEDIATELY credit you on your next statement for the amount disputed.
They will request that the item in question is returned to the original seller, the cost will be borne on the SELLER.
That's it. Period. If the seller truly wants to help, they'll respond. If not, they'll ignore you but as you see, that isn't their best recourse.
FWIW, I've used the chargeback feature as needed and was never declined.

Maybe star struck isn't the right term? More like grateful that a company figure head is so actively involved. CGC was the same way when I had my issues with AFMRLE. Although, my conversations with Doug were harsh (i was beyond livid)...My game sat UNPLAYABLE for 5 months while they figured out their PIC chip issue. That left a sour taste in my mouth from buying any future products from them. At the end of the day, my machine was fixed, and I put 1600 trouble free plays on it before letting it go. I always lived in fear when I turned that game on. This scenario isn't nearly as bad. Having a $8k paperweight in your living room was heart breaking

Still on the crusade? Dude, your like a pitbull you just won't let it go!

Hey look, i have to get my point across and sometimes that might mean blowing things out of proportion a little ok?

Yeah...
My client's game on location is bubbling around the slingshot posts now...

I truly believe in my heart that almost every single playfield that has been made in the last couple of years has pooling around the posts. Most owners just don't know it yet.

Well, four of the games I bought from this time frame didn't: IMDNLE, BM66Pre, MMr, and MBrLE. So it isn't a universal problem. But you could see some wood grain on IMDN, a couple of very minor dots where the silk screen ink didn't take on MBrLE, and some minor insert crazing on MMr. So I guess Batman 66 was the only one that looked perfect-but I bet with a microscope there were issues! These are hand made, for the most part. Differences can emerge even in the same game. Perfection is nice, but the minute you play a new game, that is gone. IMO, this playfield problem will be fixed and a footnote to pinball history.

Only one of the four games that you mentioned had pooling issues and thats IMDN. Im sure theres a game here and there that has no issues but pretty much everyone ive personally seen has issues. I dont think thats a coincidence. Also you show none of these games in your collection. Did you sell them all already? Maybe the IMDN pooled after you sold it?

Oh, I thought you meant most every playfield made in the last couple of years. My IMDN went out in a trade with around 600 plays on it, pretty good test. I looked at some pics from before it went out and it looked good. It was in the first batch of LEs that went out in May, if that means anything. It is good this is coming to light. How hard can it be to return to a better product? My STLE looks great. So does TBL, which Mirco made in 2015, I believe.

Not sure but its going to be interesting to see. I heard that the new BM66 Catwoman editions are having some issues as well. Not sure if thats true or not though. It makes me sick honestly. I haven't even been playing any pinball because of it and my IMDN and Munsters both need cleaned and i just don't even want to do it.....cant find the motivation..

Well, maybe just try to enjoy what you have, a great collection, and take a break from this madness here, or sell a few. I enjoy rotating my machines and have only a couple that I wouldn’t sell or trade.

Here’s a new theory to make you feel better WD.....if you never clean them, the build up of grime from flipper and rubber dust will protect the Playfield forever. I once bought an Indy500 that was on location and hadn’t been cleaned for years - the Playfield was literally black. Gave it a good clean and it literally looked like new underneath.

Lol yeah that's true but do you really think that id let my Munsters get that way as proud of that game as i am? I keep all of my games really nice but i was looking at IMDN the other day and after about 200 plays since the last time i cleaned it, those good ole Stern black rubbers are really making a mess of my game. I have got to get them off of my games because they really dirty things up quickly.

Has anyone heard from JJP regarding their playfields? This just amazes me.

I know jack personally and he is a stand up guy and a great friend; I’m sure he will make it all right for everyone

Yes.

-wonka owner #08742206, play field #105, clear coat case #5107

I submitted my support form several weeks ago and have yet to receive a call. I am hoping it is just taking a bit to get around to everyone. If Jack is calling everyone personally, then it will be a while. I think we all like to bend his ear a bit.