Quoted from Ballypinball:I am sure they will only replace the defective part the playfield not a populated Playfield unless really bad
How can you only replace part of a playfield? Its either all or nothing.
(Topic ID: 249691)
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Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory (CE)
Jersey Jack, 2019-
Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2019
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Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory (Standard)
Jersey Jack, 2019
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Quoted from Ballypinball:This looks like a similar problem, proven artwork produced 1,000s of times nothing changed in production but this one fitted by an idiot
not prepped the surface correctly either used solvent based sealer or didn't allow enough time to degass before fitting decals
after fitting looked great, then after days and weeks a reaction[quoted image][quoted image]
What does this have to do with WW clear coat?
Did that happen to one game or hundreds?
Melbourne
Quoted from cosmokramer:What does this have to do with WW clear coat?
Did that happen to one game or hundreds?
I am just saying its the same printing system and clear
Quoted from Who-Dey:How can you only replace part of a playfield? Its either all or nothing.
well I guess it will be nothing in your case then
No Manufacturer is going to send out New Fully Populated Playfields in exchange for used ones.
Maybe they might ship your playfield back to the factory and swap all your parts over to another, But I cant see them shipping entire New Populated Playfields
Quoted from Ballypinball:No Manufacturer is going to send out New Fully Populated Playfields in exchange for used ones.
Stern has shipped new populated playfields to numerous customers in the past. JJP hangs their hat on doing things the best and being better than the competition. Their course of action should not even be a question right now.
Quoted from Ballypinball:well I guess it will be nothing in your case then
No Manufacturer is going to send out New Fully Populated Playfields in exchange for used ones.
Maybe they might ship your playfield back to the factory and swap all your parts over to another, But I cant see them shipping entire New Populated Playfields
Stern did with all the bad Ghostbusters playfields and why shouldn't they? They sent out a defective product and they should have to make it right. The only way to make it right is to send the customers a new populated playfield. Thats the only satisfactory solution.
Amsterdam
Quoted from Ballypinball:No Manufacturer is going to send out New Fully Populated Playfields in exchange for used ones.
Do you even read this forum ?
Hate on stern all you want, but they atleast offered a solution during their ghosting problems.
New York, NY
Quoted from JodyG:Stern has shipped new populated playfields to numerous customers in the past. JJP hangs their hat on doing things the best and being better than the competition. Their course of action should not even be a question right now.
If this "course of action" - sending out hundreds of populated playfields for swap - would cause JJP to no longer be in the pinball business, would you still want them to "hang their hat" on it?
That might be what it comes down to.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Stern did with all the bad Ghostbusters playfields and why shouldn't they? They sent out a defective product and they should have to make it right. The only way to make it right is to send the customers a new populated playfield. Thats the only satisfactory solution.
I don't think you will see Stern doing that this time around
Quoted from Ballypinball:well I guess it will be nothing in your case then
No Manufacturer is going to send out New Fully Populated Playfields in exchange for used ones.
Maybe they might ship your playfield back to the factory and swap all your parts over to another, But I cant see them shipping entire New Populated Playfields
I and many others were shipped fully populated playfields for stern ghostbusters and I sent the used populated playfield back to Stern. So yeah it happens.
Quoted from bounoun:Do you even read this forum ?
Hate on stern all you want, but they atleast offered a solution during their ghosting problems.
Do you even read posts on this Forum, I said Manufacturers didn't even mention Stern
Quoted from CrazyLevi:If this "course of action" - sending out hundreds of populated playfields for swap - would cause JJP to no longer be in the pinball business, would you still want them to "hang their hat" on it?
That might be what it comes down to.
You very well may be right Levi. But if it means shipping $12,500 hunk of crap that starts shedding clear like a molting lizard in a week...maybe they are doing more harm than good to the industry?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:If this "course of action" - sending out hundreds of populated playfields for swap - would cause JJP to no longer be in the pinball business, would you still want them to "hang their hat" on it?
That might be what it comes down to.
JJP really don’t have a good track record. Has there been a game that didn’t have something that needed to be fixed from the factory at initial release or even later in the game development.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:If this "course of action" - sending out hundreds of populated playfields for swap - would cause JJP to no longer be in the pinball business, would you still want them to "hang their hat" on it?
F*ck yeah i would!
Quoted from Who-Dey:No offense seriously, but you are dreaming. JJP is not standing behind their games. I doubt Stern is going to be any different either since so many games have been affected. These playfields are total shit and i would venture to say that almost all games that have been made in the last two years have pooling and or chipping.
For comparison, Stern sent me a fully populated playfield for my GB after a few inserts showed some minor ghosting. I was honestly surprised. I just sent in photos and a couple of days later they told me they would send the replacement. I know Stern’s response on such issues is not always consistent, but because of my experience I’m much more likely to pick up a JP2 when the dust settles rather than a Wonka (which I was also considering).
FWIW, my Met Premium manufactured in October 2018 with a few hundred plays has some barely noticeable pooling around one outlane post. I wouldn’t have noticed it if not for all the clearcoat drama. It doesn’t bother me and I would not expect Stern to do anything at this point unless they know it is likely to get worse. My fear, though, is that the playfield will start turning to crap after a year or two.
Quoted from Ballypinball:Do you even read posts on this Forum, I said Manufacturers didn't even mention Stern
Is Stern not a manufacturer? Or are they a "lifestyle creator brand" now?
Quoted from JodyG:Is Stern not a manufacturer? Or are they a "lifestyle creator brand" now?
Wow you really need a new Hobby!
The word today is cat or is it dog did I missss spell this GOD!
Trollhättan
Quoted from CrazyLevi:If this "course of action" - sending out hundreds of populated playfields for swap - would cause JJP to no longer be in the pinball business, would you still want them to "hang their hat" on it?
That might be what it comes down to.
This problem should obviously have been sorted at potc. Maybe washers etc for potc and a hefty discount on any other future or available jjp game.
Then fix the frekkin problem before starting wonka. Start by firing mirpoo.
Instead they choose the cba, route and made the thread if they are going to exist in 2020 a real interesting one.
Missmanagement at it´s finest.
Quoted from Ballypinball:I don't think you will see Stern doing that this time around
Agree. No way is Stern going to send out populated playfields for pooling. I can see them sending out populated playfields for severe cases of chipping but not pooling as pooling is likely present in some capacity on nearly ever Stern playfield made over the past 2 years.
Ballypinball why on earth are you posting in these topics now if you've not done your homework?
It's like fucking groundhog day... you're posting stuff with zero regard to the activity that has been going on for MONTHS, responses and activities during that time... and then posting stuff like 'no one will replace with populated pfs' when it's common knowledge Stern HAS done that... and not just with GB but prior titles to. It's their nuclear option when dealing with bad PFs. You of all people should be familiar with this.
I mean for fuck sakes, you roll in with stuff like 'only 7 people...' taking stats from who knows where, that are easily debunked with just a little reading. Do yourself a favor... get off whomever's teet that is feeding you info.. and do some of your own research.
Maybe Jack can come install the unpopulated playfield he’s planning to send me for my clear and paint chipping issues.
Last JJP machine for me. I’ll buy 2 Stern Pros instead. At least I know Stern will correct any issues that could arise.
Quoted from ChippyWonka:Maybe Jack can come install the unpopulated playfield he’s planning to send me for my clear and paint chipping issues.
Last JJP machine for me. I’ll buy 2 Stern Pros instead. At least I know Stern will correct any issues that could arise.
Am I reading this right? Are you confirming something here?
Quoted from smalltownguy2:Am I reading this right? Are you confirming something here?
IF the issue is a clear coat curing time problem, leaving an unpopulated PF to sit for a few months, may be a good thing. Definitely not a great customer service stance, but I believe everyone is cranking games out so fast to meet demand/orders, the fields don't have enough time to harden. Just an opinion. Could be something totally different causing this crap. After all these reports and mention of it happening on Sterns as well, I ran down and checked every post on my BM66. Happily, no clear ripple or pooling/bulging.
Quoted from Who-Dey:F*ck yeah i would!
What if it meant Stern would go broke and out of business?
Quoted from romulusx:What if it meant Stern would go broke and out of business?
Shudder at the thought. Where would all the NIB addicts get their fix?
Is the clear used on Sonic games from the 70s no longer a possibility? Or was such treatment not used since then due to cost and the desire on the part of manufacturers for games to eventually wear out to create demand for new product? (See the latest Special When Lit where they dig up an old recording of Python Angelo saying he wanted to use polycarbonate but wasn't allowed to).
With the changes in the market toward home collectors and preservation, it would seem ensuring the highest quality and preventing damage (which results in bad PR and expensive fixes) would outweigh the old replacement/cost concerns.
Quoted from smalltownguy2:Am I reading this right? Are you confirming something here?
I’m not confirming anything. I was told to “hang tight” by a distributor and he alluded to this being Jack’s “fix.” Assuming you are missing clear and paint. Just the clear and you’re pretty much on your own.
I’m still getting my Wonka CE
After all this public lynching it would be hard to figure Jack not fixing the PF issue like I know they are working on
It’s no secret with JJP games that you roll the dice somewhat
He said he’s working it out and will take care of customers. Let him do it.
“You can’t make a baby in one month by getting 9 women pregnant”
Warren Buffet. 
Quoted from DerGoetz:Check out the POTC playfield thread.
We have an LE owner there with an monster size chip gone. Jack himself supposedly denied him, case closed.
That kind of service is what will make the doors closed.
Quoted from iceman44:I’m still getting my Wonka CE
After all this public lynching it would be hard to figure Jack not fixing the PF issue like I know they are working on
It’s no secret with JJP games that you roll the dice somewhat
He said he’s working it out and will take care of customers. Let him do it.
“You can’t make a baby in one month by getting 9 women pregnant”
Warren Buffet.
I advise you to check out the PoTC playfield cracking topic. Many of us contacted JJP support and we have complete silence for many months. It is a really sad story because as I see it most of us would like to keep this great pin. But I can’t imagine how it will look after a couple of years of play if it looks like this after a few weeks.
Quoted from ChippyWonka:I’m not confirming anything. I was told to “hang tight” by a distributor and he alluded to this being Jack’s “fix.” Assuming you are missing clear and paint. Just the clear and you’re pretty much on your own.
Rumor I hear is
Pooling but no chip = discounted unpopulated PF
Chipping = free unpopulated PF
Only rumor at this point
Quoted from Balint:I advise you to check out the PoTC playfield cracking topic. Many of us contacted JJP support and we have complete silence for many months. It is a really sad story because as I see it most of us would like to keep this great pin. But I can’t imagine how it will look after a couple of years of play if it looks like this after a few weeks.
I get it. I’ve owned my Woz from day one pf issues and all
And I’ll be getting a POTC as well
I think it hit code red status now. Jack better get the pf situation worked out fast
There aren’t enough guys like me that will roll the dice in the future
Quoted from rs812:Rumor I hear is
Pooling but no chip = discounted unpopulated PF
Chipping = free unpopulated PF
Only rumor at this point
And then add $$$ to get it populated and installed. Not a great outcome for those affected. Considering here in Australia that cost is around $1000
Quoted from NeilMcRae:CGC, suck on packaging the game to avoid damage. The games are brilliant but there are too many posts of games damaged in transit.
Again...this has exactly what to do with PLAYFIELD CLEAR ISSUES? 
Who was talking about CGC? What does crappy packaging for freight have to do with Stern or JJP's clear issues?
Quoted from NeilMcRae:I'm not going to accept this as the new norm
What the hell?
You seriously got 16 upvotes on this joke of a post that's nothing but false equivalency, and completely unrelated to what I was saying. It's basically just a rant continuing your previous rants. It's got nothing at all to do with what *I* was saying, yet you quoted me as if it was. Nowhere, anywhere on here, have I said that people should accept these gimpy playfields.
Toronto, ON
Quoted from flynnibus:ballypinball why on earth are you posting in these topics now if you've not done your homework?
It's like fucking groundhog day... you're posting stuff with zero regard to the activity that has been going on for MONTHS, responses and activities during that time... and then posting stuff like 'no one will replace with populated pfs' when it's common knowledge Stern HAS done that... and not just with GB but prior titles to. It's their nuclear option when dealing with bad PFs. You of all people should be familiar with this.
I mean for fuck sakes, you roll in with stuff like 'only 7 people...' taking stats from who knows where, that are easily debunked with just a little reading. Do yourself a favor... get off whomever's teet that is feeding you info.. and do some of your own research.
I've been waiting for ages to up-vote one of your posts. This was a beauty.
Serious question...is the ENTIRE pin returnable to the distributor? I mean to say, that if I received a defective pin-with no hope in sight for a solution-is THAT pin returnable to the distributor ? Kind of a "lemon law" but for pins. Time shouldn't be an issue as what I've been reading are owner's are reporting chipping issues in ~month's time or so. So again-why not just return the defective product to where it came from?
Quoted from rs812:Rumor I hear is
Pooling but no chip = discounted unpopulated PF
Chipping = free unpopulated PF
Only rumor at this point
That seems like what is happening. I read in another thread that Jack has been calling some Pirates owners with chipped playfields who bought a replacment playfield that they would be refunded. Good on JJP, but the issue also needs to be permanently fixed at Mirco.
Quoted from CubeSnake:Serious question...is the ENTIRE pin returnable to the distributor? I mean to say, that if I received a defective pin-with no hope in sight for a solution-is THAT pin returnable to the distributor ? Kind of a "lemon law" but for pins. Time shouldn't be an issue as what I've been reading are owner's are reporting chipping issues in ~month's time or so. So again-why not just return the defective product to where it came from?
It's up to distributors to set their own return / replacement policies that are in excess of the manufacturer warranty. It's going to vary from distro to distro, and probably even customer to customer.....as I expect there's a certain level of favoritism that goes to repeat purchasers.
Quoted from NeilMcRae:On this topic I don't agree! DOWNVOTERS START YOUR ENGINES LOL
In response to this and Flynibus reply I think this is a key issue. If you are buying NIB its literally a crap shoot on what you get. Take my last purchase - MBR. a few of them came to the UK including my number matched game. So you pay your £8500, so does your buddy down the road. you get one with the problems, he doesn't and immediately you've lost a wedge of cash on an expensive item. Thats total nonsense and there is no way that should be the case.
Having watched CGC games be delivered here on Pinside; in my view they, CGC, suck on packaging the game to avoid damage. The games are brilliant but there are too many posts of games damaged in transit. I predicted a number of them coming to the UK would be damaged and a number of them were. Fearful my own game would be one of them. But to those buyers they didn't find that out until after they had the game. My game arrived in mint condition with no damage. If it hadn't done I'd have sent it back for either replacement or refund. (the dealer here is excellent and is sorting the situation out).
If you buy second user then for the most part you know what you are getting, or you can go inspect it play it and have a look at it. All of the MBR games that arrived that are damaged play fine but a couple of them have huge damage including one that has a massive dent in the armour where the glass slides in. The dealer here is exceptional and managing the problem for them (he has also has stated to JJP that he won't take any more games until this issue is resolved). But the games play fine so they should just accept that? I see no difference other than its simpler to swap out a bit on the cabinet than on a playfield- so what?!
In my view that's the **price for the manufacturers of being in the pinball business** Given a choice of a game without playfield issues and one with, no second user is buying the one with the playfield issues and irrespective if you plan to keep the game for a while or sell it for the next new thing is irrelevant; the games should come without damage on them. I can't think of another industry that would find this acceptable. Even the LCD folks gave up with their minimum pixel failure rate because it was bullshit too.
Whilst I have a lot of games, I'm not a collector, I'm a player and here in the UK there are few good places to play. I want my games to look and play great, I run four to six tournaments or meetings at my house; I stream my crap playing too! Folks come from all over the country to play; I also host three autistic charity events every year and again I want my games to play and look great, but I'm mostly concerned with the playfield I don't want to be explaining on stream some huge cornflake of damage at each post FFS! if the cabinet has a few dings I'm less worried about that than any playfield damage; and why I was super disappointed with TNA especially as it was non-trivial to get one to the UK. From the moment I played the proto I wanted TNA when they announced it was going to be built. Hell yes! So I bust a gut to figure out how to import it to the UK personally.
I'm not going to accept this as the new norm because 30 years of pinball history says it doesn't have to be the new normal. Those that think this issue is not a big deal I really struggle with, but when I look at that it's usually those that will never have to face this problem and I understand that's simply human nature.
Regards,
Neil.
I've had 3 CGC games shipped to my house with zero issues....the games are packed exactly like Stern, and JJP games....they use the same materials, box, crate, etc....
Quoted from iceman44:I get it. I’ve owned my Woz from day one pf issues and all
And I’ll be getting a POTC as well
I think it hit code red status now. Jack better get the pf situation worked out fast
There aren’t enough guys like me that will roll the dice in the future
Jack ain’t gonna do jack sh$t.
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Jack ain’t gonna do jack sh$t.
T - shirt for the upcoming show.
Quoted from o-din:T - shirt for the upcoming show.
Well come on all he’s offered is a unpopulated 550 dollar replacement playfield. Lame.
Quoted from CubeSnake:Serious question...is the ENTIRE pin returnable to the distributor? I mean to say, that if I received a defective pin-with no hope in sight for a solution-is THAT pin returnable to the distributor ? Kind of a "lemon law" but for pins. Time shouldn't be an issue as what I've been reading are owner's are reporting chipping issues in ~month's time or so. So again-why not just return the defective product to where it came from?
Yes... in New Zealand with our consumer laws.
Quoted from rs812:Rumor I hear is
Pooling but no chip = discounted unpopulated PF
Chipping = free unpopulated PF
Only rumor at this point
The first question I would ask is was the playfield being offered as a replacement from a different run than the originals? and was there a change made to hopefully avoid the same exact issue from occurring again?
JJP could probably care less but I and what sounds like a decent number of
pinsiders are sitting on the sidelines waiting for confirmation that the original process has been changed. Unfortunately I don’t foresee them ever acknowledging that because that would be an admission that the early play fields are defective.
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Well come on all he’s offered is a unpopulated 550 dollar replacement playfield. Lame.
How are you affected? Planning on buying a JJP game?
Quoted from DougPiranha:How are you affected? Planning on buying a JJP game?
LOL!
I’ve been checking the mirco thread and find it incredibly stupid/ funny that the general consensus over there is for anyone with a pirates or WW issue to stay out of that thread where they basically beg mirco to make certain playfields for older games.
If he changed the process for JJP wouldn’t he have changed the process for all playfields he’s manufacturing?
Quoted from Who-Dey:Stern did with all the bad Ghostbusters playfields and why shouldn't they? They sent out a defective product and they should have to make it right. The only way to make it right is to send the customers a new populated playfield. Thats the only satisfactory solution.
Didn’t Stern put out a disclaimer stating that ghosting is normal? At least they finally realized what pinheads always knew, which is that it isn’t.
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