I dunno. It's already been flame polished. May just need a good buff-out.

I said those early WMS SS pins can burn.....

So now we not only have to worry about chipping and pooling, but these things burning our houses down. Great hobby!

Now I had this for years and there is no chipping or wrinkles....

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Nice graphics dude!

Not JJP Reading Pinside is

Hey come on now. Everyone knows that Homepin and Heighway are here for the long term in pinball manufacturing........

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Golly gee willikers, why is everyone so negative!?!?! All pinball is great!!! That’s what the Twitch influencers & podcasters who work for Stern & sell games for a living tell us! We should be super happy all the time like them! Look how much they enjoy pinball! May we all reach that level of positivity one day!

May Jack & Gary bless you all! Send them more money next time, for the good of pinball!!!!!!!

All PF issues can be summed up like this:

People whom rent homes (location/operators) don’t really care about condition or quality of the home, just that they have a place to live and enjoy life.

Home owners on the other hand care very much about build quality and condition of the home over the long haul. If a builder were to hand you a paint brush and some paint/clearcoat and tell you to fix it yourself, you’d be outraged. Why are pinball owners/collectors any different??? Pinball companies need to get a grip on this understanding. They aren’t just selling to operators any longer, rather collectors are the bigger market now. Cater only to operators like the old days, if that ridiculous letter of excuses is going to be included in all JJP and Stern boxes. We collectors don’t accept it as a way out on selling us poor quality machines.

This blanket statement is plain wrong. A good percentage of people operating pins are collectors themselves. Yes, there are still operators that do no maintenance on pins and don't care much about how they look, but I think that's a much smaller part of the 2019 operator pool than you are estimating.

As promised... here is a picture of a two year old Pirates with NO CHIPS! Also I was wrong it doesn't have 2,000 plays but it's closing in.

I have to say this thread is an embarrassment. Most on this thread do not even own a Wonka, Pirates or any of the games in question. Yet its the same old people who pile onto every single thread, because they have nothing better to do all day long than cause trouble or watch Judge Judy. Jack's statement wasn't good enough, you mention your game is good and you're called a liar, it really doesn't matter what anyone does this forum is an embarrassment. There is a hurricane that just destroyed the bahamas, now its about to hit the entire east coast, and people are on here slamming each other over a POSSIBLE chip! The last time I checked there are companies who make new playfields for older games, because this thing called a PINBALL, its a metal ball that rolls around, shot around, slams into things, hit things, does some damage. They made these things called cliffys to help you protect or hide damage on a playfield because of the damages this metal balls make. Playfields getting ruined by these strange things they call pinballs, has been happening for decades. With that being said new games shouldn't have chips, cracks or wear after 100 plays... those companies should fix that problem for you. Furthermore your problem is with those companies you don't solve those problems on a forum. You solve them with the company in question. I don't know what do I know. Last I checked you can't call pinside and demand a new playfield but i could be wrong.

I have looked at my Wonka, it has some pooling, but I have no plans to remove posts, and I see no cracks, nothing. My Pirates has no pooling. With all that being said if a big chunk of my wonka flies off, I will call JJP and discuss it with them directly. Until that happens I'm going to have fun playing in my opinion is one of the best games ever created.

To anyone else who has a crack issue, I hope you get your issue resolved quickly you deserve that 110%.

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Damn! I just noticed some hard to see dimples from the 90s on No Fear.

At least JJP’s not in the lifestyle brand business.

On this topic I don't agree! DOWNVOTERS START YOUR ENGINES LOL

In response to this and Flynibus reply I think this is a key issue. If you are buying NIB its literally a crap shoot on what you get. Take my last purchase - MBR. a few of them came to the UK including my number matched game. So you pay your £8500, so does your buddy down the road. you get one with the problems, he doesn't and immediately you've lost a wedge of cash on an expensive item. Thats total nonsense and there is no way that should be the case.

Having watched CGC games be delivered here on Pinside; in my view they, CGC, suck on packaging the game to avoid damage. The games are brilliant but there are too many posts of games damaged in transit. I predicted a number of them coming to the UK would be damaged and a number of them were. Fearful my own game would be one of them. But to those buyers they didn't find that out until after they had the game. My game arrived in mint condition with no damage. If it hadn't done I'd have sent it back for either replacement or refund. (the dealer here is excellent and is sorting the situation out).

If you buy second user then for the most part you know what you are getting, or you can go inspect it play it and have a look at it. All of the MBR games that arrived that are damaged play fine but a couple of them have huge damage including one that has a massive dent in the armour where the glass slides in. The dealer here is exceptional and managing the problem for them (he has also has stated to JJP that he won't take any more games until this issue is resolved). But the games play fine so they should just accept that? I see no difference other than its simpler to swap out a bit on the cabinet than on a playfield- so what?!

In my view that's the **price for the manufacturers of being in the pinball business** Given a choice of a game without playfield issues and one with, no second user is buying the one with the playfield issues and irrespective if you plan to keep the game for a while or sell it for the next new thing is irrelevant; the games should come without damage on them. I can't think of another industry that would find this acceptable. Even the LCD folks gave up with their minimum pixel failure rate because it was bullshit too.

Whilst I have a lot of games, I'm not a collector, I'm a player and here in the UK there are few good places to play. I want my games to look and play great, I run four to six tournaments or meetings at my house; I stream my crap playing too! Folks come from all over the country to play; I also host three autistic charity events every year and again I want my games to play and look great, but I'm mostly concerned with the playfield I don't want to be explaining on stream some huge cornflake of damage at each post FFS! if the cabinet has a few dings I'm less worried about that than any playfield damage; and why I was super disappointed with TNA especially as it was non-trivial to get one to the UK. From the moment I played the proto I wanted TNA when they announced it was going to be built. Hell yes! So I bust a gut to figure out how to import it to the UK personally.

I'm not going to accept this as the new norm because 30 years of pinball history says it doesn't have to be the new normal. Those that think this issue is not a big deal I really struggle with, but when I look at that it's usually those that will never have to face this problem and I understand that's simply human nature.

Regards,
Neil.

how can you have a two year old pirates? It was only debuted at Expo in 2017 and then was at least 6 months before shipping? Is it a proto?

I got the game an entire year ago, but the game i got was used by JJP at several trade shows for the year prior which is why the game had so many plays. I can promise you I didn’t play the game 1400 times. LOL

I can go look for the born date if you want, either way all that matters is how many plays. 1400 is a ton and the game has no chips.

so it must be a proto then... we had a proto at our club - it had no chipping also - something changed when the final manufacturing started.

Neil.

Exactly. flynnibus criticizes NIB buyers for being over critical of their games and worrying over Playfield damage, yet in the same breath admits he has only ever bought one NIB game, instead preferring to buy used whereby he can check the condition of the game and let the NIB buyer “take the NIB hit”.

flynnibus it begs the question.....what NIB hit would a used buyer deduct for a chipped Playfield with paint missing over a non chipped one with no paint missing?

Personally I would knock off the cost of a replacement playfield - Stern playfields are around $750?

I don't think that's a pinball machine.

This just in, people can care about multiple things at the same time.

Or should we wait until hurricane season is over and all the CEs ship before we ask/expect that JJP figure out and resolve these issues?

What about when the winter storms kick in? Should we wait till after winter? What about the volcano in Italy that erupted!?

What about the violence in Hong Kong?

Come on man. If we let things slide in our day to day because of world events we’d never hold anyone accountable for anything because something bigger is ALWAYS going on. (Caps inspired by Richie )

I live in one of the currently projected paths of the hurricane as do a handful of others posting here. I’ve prepared as best I can now it’s wait and see what happens mode. So pinside provides a bit of relief from that anxiety.

It’s kinda like buying a NiB pinball table in that sense. What’ll I get? A nice breeze or a complete unplanned house remodel? Who knows until it arrives!

My personal buying preferences are immaterial to the subject... which was pinball machines are not hands off trophies without flaws. They wear, they have flaws, they break, we fix them, we keep on living. If you can’t accept that... you’re in the wrong hobby.

OK, great news here. So how do I fix the pooling and cracking? You got my attention. Have been happily fixing the machines in my collection and other people's machines for years and love to learn new tricks.

Here we go, the God of pinball telling everyone who should and should not be in this hobby again.

Man the advertisers are getting good. Got this targeted add today for a gel that hardens when exposed to UV.

For 20 bucks I might get some just to try.

https://tech-ace.com/bd/US/x-15

If it works as advertised it might be easier to work with than superglue or nail polish for filling chipped areas.

If similar products already exist please share.

THis is my first post in the thread, though I have found reading it.....entertaining?

I don't think anyone wants real solutions here. Take those elsewhere.

Chips? Same way it’s been done for decades. Water thin CA, let it wick in, and use compression until dry. Touch up with acrylic if needed.

The key will be to see if the adhesion problems continue to inch their way further away from the contact spots. So far it seems like direct tight contact is the only part where the pfs are failing so far.

Yes, I can tighten screws, replace plastics and will even try some light soldering if required, but I lack the skill and time for a PF swap.
Also I expect some wear on machine after several hundred plays, not new out of the box. I sort of expect most things to be working and in good condition when I take my $8,000 toy of of the box. I realize things work themselves loose during shipping, humans make mistakes during assembly, but I just can't accept a NIB PF that is not near perfect out of the box before a ball starts rolling around on it. I understand you are fine, but there is no way anybody in this forum will get me to accept a NIB that has chipping after a low number of plays. I'm just gonna go back to buying used, and if you are one of those that accepted a machine with a sub-standard PF, please don't offer to sell me yours at a discount.

I feel like we sort of get what we expect in this hobby. Consumers hold all the power. We are buying toys that are a want not a need. We could all stop buying NIB today and it really won't impact our lives. I didn't think I would be one to jump on the bandwagon, but I just don't need this kind of stress from a hobby. I want to come home and just play some pinball. I want to see a new title that excites me and call my distributor to order one. If I drop $8 grand on a new toy, I expect it to be defect free out of the box, if it's not I assume the manufacturer will make it right. In any business, customer service is %100.

Wouldn't it be something if JJP started to offer a Playfield warranty with new machine purchases? Here's how I see it;

For only $499.99, you will receive a two year warranty on top of the manufacturers very limited warranty. This extended warranty specifically covers Playfield cosmetic problems such as chipping, paint bubbling or whatever else we want to call it. If a claim is made (and approved by an unbiased Review Committee) you will receive a new or remanufactured playfield from Jersey Jack pinball. Shipping charges will be borne by the customer. This is a parts only warranty. You will receive a new play field which you get to install yourself or pay someone to install it. Jersey Jack pinball service centers will offer a Playfield swap service for just $2495.00 based on today's value of money. Also, if the Playfield is no longer in stock, you'll receive a $500 credit good on the future purchase of another Jersey Jack pinball machine. Remember, these are the best built, highest quality, pinball machines there are. Thank you for your business.

Please tell me you forgot your emoji

Does that actually play the wreck it Ralph game?

Which basically means they can make a good product, but cheaps out in production.
It just gets worse and worse.

Well, Frighteners argument blew up in the Doctors face, I’d guess.

I’m glad his POTC isn’t wearing like production pins, unless his IS one? Hey Doc, got a pic of that ID label?

I don't think anyone disagrees with you that they wear and break and all that. What we disagree with is that broken from the factory is acceptable. To be clear: it is not!

HA! I see what you did there...

I would be perfectly fine with the concept of a playfield warranty. But as the purchaser of said warranty it needs to include a drop in replacement playfield or a nominal swap cost, not $2500.

I finally caught up in this thread after a few days away, so I apologize for this oddly late reply here.

I don't know the exact details of what occured here between Neil and Charlie, as an outsider I see this not as a statement of goodwill, but more as antagonistic and refuting fault.

If Neil had anything shipped to him, even at no cost, he still has the right to be upset at his purchase having innate issues that affected value and his attitude towards his game.

There's no justification to address him or Greenhornet in such a "hostile" way, when he wasn't at fault for supporting Spooky Pinball via buying a faulty game. Then to door slam the conversation, and not allow input with him within this thread or others to banter back and forth before leaving, seems more angsty, enraged teenager, than sensible and empathetic business owner. Making amends for issues...your...product had, shouldn't be something to crow about with pride, even if the competition is currently lacking such "standards".

Resolve issues with care, ideally so, rather than rant, caps lock argue, and be demeaning towards users here, whether you feel they are just or not. If you disagree with someone's opinions, that's fine, but also understand that as a company owner, it's entirely acceptable for customers or users to not agree with your viewpoints, sans whatever type of soundoff was displayed here.

As someone who has played every Spooky title, and considered them as a possible purchase at some point, this attitude echoed by Charlie feels really offputting and unprofessional.

Sounds like the LCD warranty bullshit that some laptop people tried to do. The wrong answer IMO.

The first two sentences were meant to imply that.

You’re seriously suggesting a NIB pinball buyer should be expected to touch up paint and clear on their PF after a few hundred games?

Ok, let’s assume (ridiculously) that they do, then what’s the NIB “price hit” for a touched up game?

It would be best to say nothing till one has some answers telling people they can't touch their games helps no one it is just an out for JJP to blame the amateur workmanship for the issue

My wife got burned by a "Pixel Policy". Until I made the failure a bit more catastrophic....

hell yes.

Would you be willing to pay an additional $2k for this warranty on top of the value pricing these machines cost? Keep in mind, Jack is reading this thread.

Not what I said - if you can't follow the conversation without interjecting your own distortions.. just scroll past.

Holy fucking shit. This thread is on page 35. I haven't read one post, but keep seeing it in the top few pinside topics as I peruse what used to be a forum that kept me connected to pinball. If I was ever going to sell my machines and abandon this thread and culture and camaraderie....this might be the thread that broke the camels back. Wow. Who cares.

This level of masturbatory...I mean...WOW.

OMFG. I just read the last few pages. Certainly a waste of the amount of breath's we have on this rock.

Hey...here's an idea....if you're this concerned why don't you put your down the shooter lane and pull the plunger?... And for the 2019 crowd let me apologize ahead of time...that last part isn't literal.

This is pinside now. A lot's changed in a super short amount of time.

So if mylar is placed on the potential trouble spots with a washer on top, will this prevent the chipping or will the clear still crack underneath?