So you aren't worried about playfield issues? You're fine shelling out 12.5k for an imperfect product?

Oh please don’t leave we’ll miss you so.I love the Stern owners who take all their precious time to come here and bash JJP.Whats the reward for turning someone,do you get a discount from Gary?
The other group I love are the ones who say “I’m not buying until they fix this shit” and they have no pins HaHa

Saying that a handful of pictures off pooling and chipping translates to a “widespread problem” is also shortsighted and logically unsound. The only “fact” is that nobody knows what percentage are affected, except maybe the distributors and manufacturers.

Exactly. What’s Jack supposed to do? Cancel his vacation? Admit total wrongdoing? Have 20 people actually complained or provided evidence yet? Do we know?

It looks like a problem. How big we don’t know. Expecting a company to admit guilt and start writing checks is absurd.

Maybe you and I have a different definition of "handful". There's dozens in this thread alone, and that's just for Wonka. Lots more for JJP & JP2. This is a widespread problem, regardless of whether you keep your preorder CE on. Any logical person would take a wait and see approach at the very least.

And just remember my post when your CE shows up and starts pooling. I assume you'll keep the wool over your eyes then?

You don't actually believe he's on vacation, off the grid in 2019, at the exact time all hell breaks loose do you?

The amazeballs thing is that the manufacturers - ALL of them - will just cut corners somewhere else, leading to another problem we’ll need to complain about before they own up and fix it. See Stern and JJP for the last 8 years. If you think one has a leg up on the other when it comes to issues, you’re wrong.

Maybe Spooky’s better. ACNC is a winning game, and provides by far the best “world under glass experience” going today.

He goes on vacation every August. Like I did and like 90% of the world dies too. So yes, I do.

You joined Pinside TODAY, and your first post was to come out swinging at people? Huh.
As for vacations, most everyone I know in the work force has to "put in" for vacation months in advance. Typically they
travel with family, and try to take a break from the work world. I don't take work calls when I'm on vacation either. At least he was cordial enough to take a break and record a message.

I can sympathize with JJP for the issue, but I dont' think people are saying Jack should be writing checks. And if it has been said, I missed it. To be constructive though, for me it boils down to whether or not it's an issue I can fix this issue myself? I've replaced a shit CPU in one new in box and had to rewire erroneous connection points and work out multiple kinks on a differnet new in box; as well, I've kinked out NIB issues for a couple other titles, all in the past 18 months... All without expecting, or demanding some sort of restitution for my trouble. I'm a guy that L O V E S pinball, and troubleshooting the issues is part of the passion, if you're in this hobby 100 percent.

These things said - if theres a major issue with something that I can't fix, I will lean on the developer of said title to help me rectify the situation, simple as that. I consdider myself willing to put in considerable effort, but if I had to replace a placefield, I'd likely rebox the original and send it back, no questions asked. YMMV

Off the grid? Where, middle of the Sahara?

Ah yes, how cordial of him to record a 1 minute message essentially telling all his customers to f off?

I have seen four POTC in person and played them, including the CE that I own myself.

All four had pooling, making it a 100% quota in my case.

What is your real-world quota?

ergo one of the problems plaguing the community... false expectation of future values and what they should be. The idea that "I can buy NIB, sell it, and keep repeating that for every new title" and pay very little is a meeting of circumstances... not a standing convention. Then people get all upset if anything dares interrupts that cycle they believe "should" hold true.

Only NIB I've bought myself is AC/DC when it was new. I have no personal interest in buying NIB games typically. I collected games for over 15 years before buying AC/DC NIB because the game had proven itself to me as something I really wanted. Now that there is so much new blood buying and selling games... I can simply wait a few weeks and let someone else take the NIB hit... or wait till the next sparkly light is shown and people shift their attention there. In recent years my collection has shifted almost entirely to 'virtually new' Sterns.. but I don't bother buying them NIB.. there is no value in that for me.

I'm blessed that I have a good circle of friends that operators and collectors.. so I've setup and unboxed virtually every title sold in the last 5 years. The only I can think of scanning the list I've not setup NIB have been AMH, Mustang, WWE, FT, RZ, BM66, and ACNC. From JJP CE editions, to Stern Pros.. the community is strong enough here I get to see, setup, and work on nearly all flavors.. and usually multiple examples. With the operators.. we unbox most new sterns the first week they hit the street.

I have trophy level games.. I have player games. But what I have learned is... if you buy them as things to sit and just admire.. you will lose in the long run.

Any idea of the play count on these at the time you saw them? Just curious if you knew. Were any that way out of the box?
POTC was definitely so bad that we got the "Post Update Kit". .
Thanks.

Smart. My new SOP.

I read through this entire thread and can only say this is a sad situation on so many levels.

I really hope all of you who have been wronged are made right by JJP.

Maybe it's the frustration of the endless waves of n00bs telling everyone how pinball 'should be' simply because they lack perspective or the awareness to know it.

Yes, because I'm the type that donates countless hours and dollars to haul games to shows, run events, run leagues, help fill the ranks, fix games, donate parts, and more so we have a hobby.. and have been doing it for decades. Then some people stroll in and don't want their babies hurt.. then complain about the makeup at shows and whine about what others are bringing or not.

Do you see me telling you to keep buying games? Or see me buying them? I'm not telling anyone 'keep on going'. No, you see me supporting vendors like PBR who called out this kind of cost cutting years ago.. and spending money where people do think quality matters. Like Kerry Stair/Mantis Amusements.

If you go back.. you'll find I've never said it was acceptable. What I stood up to was people acting like this is the worst possible thing that could happen to their games and now they are ruined or something.

People are just now catching on that this issue has been plauging playfields for many many months.. and most didn't even know it was happening to their games! What does that tell you about the significance to their experience with their games?

This is ghosting all over... it's crap... but it isn't the worst thing that can happen to your games.

I’m not a JJP guy, I just hate it when people present themselves as “logical” and spew nonsense. Never thought I’d be defending Jack, since he came out swinging at Stern back in 2013. I hated that. But even I will admit that he’s made Stern a better company by being the first credible competitor. Seeing people go after entrepreneurs like hyenas on an old lion just makes me sad.

Wanna buy one with clear & art chipped down to bare wood around several posts? If so, do you expect price to reflect condition?

A better question, why write a couple thousand words about an issue that wouldn’t bother you, hypothetically, if you were a NIB buyer, which you’re not? Incredibly bored? No holiday weekend plans? Just wanna rile up people who care about something you don’t?

Which of my comments were nonsense, specifically, and why. Your thinly veiled Ad Hominem isn't really adding to the conversation is it?

Welcome to Pinside, fellow cute-cat avatar person. May I suggest maybe reading posts for a few days before going off on a tear?

Not just calling JJP on this. If Stern won’t take care of us their customers, they’re in the same boat. Stop buying their games, we’re in agreement. No company should put out to us collectors a shoddy product at these high prices and not take care of their customers, if there is a legitimate issue. It is shameful if Stern has not taken care of everyone if that is the case. Only reason I’ve supported Stern, is so far to my knowledge they replace bad PFs. If that stops then so will my support of Stern. If documented, Stern should replace everyone and not make them feel like they have to fight Stern for it or that they’re being overly picky.

I don't see Stern replacing every playfield with chipping, pooling, etc. Hopefully some of the most severe cases of chipping result in a replacement playfield, but I seriously doubt it will be all. Stern is also continuing to ship playfields that suffer from this issue by the fact that they are including metal washers under sling posts on the latest JP games.

I would want to talk with someone who has experience repairing play fields. They would offer the most experience.

And your...players....are calling you wanting to bitch on your behalf? Man, you should buy those guys a beer! Most businesses would murder third world countries for customers like that!

This is a poor measure of anyone's opinion. Even a broke-as-a-joke motherf... like ME has bought 3 NIB in the last 5 years.....and this issue doesn't even go back 5 years, really. Tron, Met, AC/DC Premium (I guess apparently Luci did but that was at the very end of a VERY long production run!)....did not have these problems, or at the very least to anywhere near the degree of what we're seeing now. (Yes, I know AC/DC cloudy windows is technically a playfield issue, but I don't believe it was related to the clear.)

Chris Hutchins already commented on this thread. If HEP's opinion isn't weighty enough for you, nobody's will be.

the other three are on location, two of these in heavily played and somewhat local to me barcades. Hence yes, these two see some shit, hahaha.

The pooling that I saw locally made me ask my distributor about how JJP would cover me should my CE, which I was about to order (late last year), would have the same playfield issues that I saw. The distributor seemed surprised by my question but I was assured that I need not to worry. That of course I would be taken care of. I will find out this coming week as I will now file my ticket in reaction to JJPs latest statements.

The third location POTC I played at the beach a month ago. At an amusement center of sorts. It was the middle of day and I was the only one there. The place was dark and it was hard to tell how much wear, therefore how many games the POTC has had at that point.

My own POTC developed the pooling within the first few months on hardly any games played.

Ok I'll bite... just what IS the "worst thing that can happen to your game"?

I don't think people need to wait until their house burns down with everything in it before they can post some complaints on a pinball forum. Sure the language gets hyperbolic as people get worked up and others dismiss their concerns but hey... it's bare wood peeking out of essentially brand new PF's.

Kinda gets your attention.

Sorry that post (the one you quoted from me) somehow ended up in the wrong thread. It was meant for another thread about something completely different. My apologies

Condition is always about what you can compare it too. If all the games are like this... until some other "fixed" pfs are made available... it's not gonna kill a game if you want a wonka. It just comes with a wonka...

If you don't want to buy a wonka due to pf chips ... well... you don't want a wonka enough I guess.

Something that makes it into a paperweight.

I do appreciate their dedication but there is no need to take it that far in my opinion.

Worst thing is a pin that catches on fire (Williams early SS. Remember, WMS= Wires May Sizzle). Also, pins that electrocute players. Improper grounding on SS pins cause that 55 volt sensation.

Some Williams EM Aztec's did the full line voltage zap to players.

A few free games never hurt when you're there.

This is a rational post. But you don’t seem to have done much research at all. And as a point of reference, Stern does NOT replace every documented damaged playfield,

Stern’s domination of the industry cuts all ways. They ship way more games than everyone. And to an order of magnitude of buyers than are represented on Pinside (in general and compared to JJP). We hear of their occasional benevolence here but it’s hardly uniform. And the scope of what we don’t know far outweighs what we do.

And to DonkeyDick, just because you can’t take a vacation doesn’t mean no one else can’t. One reason I don’t have more machines is that I’ve spent a shit load of dough on big family vacations the last 3 years. And newsflash: tickets to Europe are best bought months in advance, or they get shitty expensive. I highly doubt Jack waited to schedule a family trip to Europe in the last three weeks.

Ghosting inserts? Seriously? Probably not in my top 15 of bad shit to worry about happening to your game. If it wasn’t for the flashlight examining diaper polishing brigade, no one would fucking even know ghosting inserts existed.

Tens of thousands of B/W games probably have ghosted inserts, and the clear hasn’t peeled. If the modern era ghosted inserts start lifting clear, than sure, it’s an issue. But when has this ever happened?

I know... lots of things that basically hurt people or the game self destructs.. and people are more worried about 1mm wide chips.

As anyone that comes to our sites knows, if you are there when I am there, it's your lucky day. I've bought more beers for people in the past couple of years than most do in a lifetime. I always treat the guys and gals that support me incredible.

Oh, is that how vacations work? Didn't know that. Tickets should be bought well in advance? Hold on, lemme take some notes. Any other sage wisdom you'd like to instill on us? Oh and you're richer than me too? Damn I feel awful now, better cancel my trip to Brazil next month and cry.

Rumor is he's back from his "vacation" and still radio silent....tick tock JJP, one more bad move and your company is sunk...

Shut the hell up.....everytime I use my lawnmower it doesn't look as good, everytime I drive my car the tires don't look as new, every day I age I don't look as awesome....

Only a complete moron thinks that playing their pinball game isn't going to leave a mark. This thread is getting Monty Pythonesquely stupid.

Hopefully he was able to afford the week early one-way ticket home. I mean since he no doubt bought the tickets far in advance they were likely non-changeable and all. Guess even he realized he should not be away while Rome is burning.

First time I’ve heard a Lawnmowerguement used on Pinside. End of the Carguement once and for all? I think not.

JJP has ruined my life.

Jack's recitation of a Lawyer-written script should have settled you down. Listen again to the "2 fools and Jack" podcast.

Analogies are still a horrible way to make an argument.

So if my machine literally burst into flames when I pull the plunger then I have a legitimate gripe and can complain. Got it. Sorry for my overreaction.

Only if it burns down your house and kills your whole family.

This Wonka is only a week old. The tournament guys say it plays great.

DB1E9987-D2F0-4F08-8A74-ECE35C344887 (resized).jpeg

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinside-fight-club-scheduling-carpool-info-results-etc

Do this by the book. Make travel arrangements, pick an airport and beat the shit out of each other over pinball clear coat. Not over the top at all.

Just needs a little novus 4