(Topic ID: 249691)

Wonka LE Sling Post Chipping in one month!!


By rs812

3 months ago



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#1601 3 months ago
Quoted from kvan99:

It seems to me that there are multiple issues at play here, first off, the clearcoat is not something we see on the market, it's especially formulated for Mirco. We don't know (at least conclusively) how different the formulation is, is it just because it's water based? Or is it how it's mixed to speed up production? The second thing is the digital printing, the art seems to come off with when the clear chips, there seems to be an adhesion problem, why? Is it because the ink is not attaching itself to the wood properly? Is it a prep issue? I think the robotic automation and the speed aspect of his production line may also play a role, I'm guessing here, but I think the first step to address this issue is to re-formulate the clear....or perhaps use a name brand product that's widely available.
PS: some good info regarding his production line......skip to 7:30 mark for the clearcoat comment.

LOL. He's so sure and full of himself. Admitting fault opens them up to a law suit. As previously mentioned. ALWAYS use a credit card to buy a new machine. NOT your debit, an actual credit card. File a claim and your issues instantly go away.

#1602 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

if you buy your games to just be trophy queens... you're in the wrong hobby. The game intrinsically includes the idea of wear and tear. If you buy pinballs just to have perfect games.. you're going to hate the game.

Then you need to raise YOUR standards.

How much wear and tear in a month? C’mon man...

#1603 3 months ago

Another site has picked up this story and run with it:

https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/this-week-in-pinball-august-26th-2019/

I’ve bookmarked the hell out of this thread and other sites with theories, suggestions, your examples of chipping, and statements by the various vendors.

This thread is impossible for a noob or the faint at heart to follow at this point without spending multiple hours. There is right, wrong, and uncertain info in this thread and sorting through all of that that’s even more time.

Case in point. I’d been following this thread and other for several days and had already placed an order for a NiB Stern table only to find out moments later. Yes, their tables can also have these pooling/chipping issues.

I’m thinking of doing a 5-10min YouTube video about the whole situation. Has anyone else here already done so?

I feel like if we could focus our efforts into a clear and organized story with examples and currently known statements and responses from the companies involved we might be able to at least provide that as a resource for customers to make informed decisions about potentially affected tables and vendors.

Not by any means suggesting folks stop commenting here.

Just letting ya’ll know what I’m thinking of doing and asking if any of you would like to help by sanity checking my outline and content or providing additional info before I release it into the wild.

#1604 3 months ago
Quoted from LukyDuck:

Did he say he was on vacation or is this just an assumption? What country was he in during the podcast? I ask because I don’t know the answers.

He or someone at the JJP world's finest pinball factory that makes the best-built, highest quality pinball machines there are said he is/was overseas with "Spotty Cell service" until September 9th. After the comments started flying, JJP distributor and all-around good guy Wayne G. stated that Jack is on a personal family vacation in Europe.

Jack must have had good internet service over there when he sent the one-way recorded .wav file to the shill podcast.

#1605 3 months ago
Quoted from dashv:

Another site has picked up this story and run with it:
https://www.thisweekinpinball.com/this-week-in-pinball-august-26th-2019/
I’ve bookmarked the hell out of this thread and other sites with theories, suggestions, your examples of chipping, and statements by the various vendors.
This thread is impossible for a noob or the faint at heart to follow at this point without spending multiple hours. There is right, wrong, and uncertain info in this thread and sorting through all of that that’s even more time.
Case in point. I’d been following this thread and other for several days and had already placed an order for a NiB Stern table only to find out moments later. Yes, their tables can also have these pooling/chipping issues.
I’m thinking of doing a 5-10min YouTube video about the whole situation. Has anyone else here already done so?
I feel like if we could focus our efforts into a clear and organized story with examples and currently known statements and responses from the companies involved we might be able to at least provide that as a resource for customers to make informed decisions about potentially affected tables and vendors.
Not by any means suggesting folks stop commenting here.
Just letting ya’ll know what I’m thinking of doing and asking if any of you would like to help by sanity checking my outline and content or providing additional info before I release it into the wild.

Check out posts by xTheBlackKnightx. Knowledgeable old timer/operator. Opinionated but informed.

What does anyone really expect JJP or Stern to do publicly? They are a business, and they need to protect themselves. This concept can - must! - coexist with taking care of their customers. Because guess what, if they go under because of this or anything else, owners get nothing. Sound familiar?

This hobby isn’t just this little thing of ours on Pinside. It’s big business. This is a big problem and is going to need a big solution. Across multiple manufacturers and possibly industries. Keep flying the flag, but give them time to understand and fix this. And make good, somehow, with their customers. The solution they come up with might not be ideal, but hopefully it will be acceptable.

Blaming them for inactivity right now is disingenuous and probably counter productive.

#1606 3 months ago

lol, Wayne....Mr. Impartiality.

#1607 3 months ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

FYI GUYS... Jack did a podcast YESTERDAY and he talked about this issue. Go here and take a listen:
www.podcastgarden.com
So go here and take a list and see if this answers anyone's questions.

LOL With all the podcast out there saying he was on one tells people little

#1608 3 months ago
Quoted from MrBally:

He or someone at the JJP world's finest pinball factory that makes the best-built, highest quality pinball machines there are said he is/was overseas with "Spotty Cell service" until September 9th. After the comments started flying, JJP distributor and all-around good guy Wayne G. stated that Jack is on a personal family vacation in Europe.
Jack must have had good internet service over there when he sent the one-way recorded .wav file to the shill podcast.

I lol’d at this commentary and appreciate the humor.

That said, it doesn’t seem odd to me at all that a guy as busy as he must be decided to vacation over the Labor Day holiday weekend.

It’s also not a surprise that he was able to (literally) phone in a sound clip.

Most likely he’s seeing the sights with the family using a US phone with dodgy international coverage. Earlier or later at the hotel the WiFi would generally be good enough for that sort of thing.

Chances are good folks from hq texted, emailed, or called him to the effect of “hey, a huge dumpster fire is burning over the Wonka playfields, distributors are getting wary, and pinside has a 30 pages+ thread on it. We’re getting calls, emails, cancelled orders, and now this podcast hit us up for comment. I know you’re on vacation but the shitstorm is killing our support channels. We should think about giving some kind of statement.”

In short. I hope this thread doesn’t derail into folks vilifying a busy guy for taking a vacation.

Criticize the playfield problems and decision making for sure. But separate that from and spare the guy criticism of his private life.

#1609 3 months ago

”....We should think about giving some kind of statement letting everyone know”...we’re not going to do anything about it.

I believe that’s more accurate.

#1610 3 months ago
Quoted from MrBally:

He or someone at the JJP world's finest pinball factory that makes the best-built, highest quality pinball machines there are said he is/was overseas with "Spotty Cell service" until September 9th. After the comments started flying, JJP distributor and all-around good guy Wayne G. stated that Jack is on a personal family vacation in Europe.
Jack must have had good internet service over there when he sent the one-way recorded .wav file to the shill podcast.

I just think it is ironic that the owner, who’s company is having issues bigger than minor/normal ones, happens to be on vacation in countries that happen to have other pinball manufacturers (i.e. DP) and Mirco which I believe is in Germany.

Anyone ever think he is conducting business with the owners of DP or suppliers?

DP has its issues and from what others have mentioned, so might Mirco from what I have read.

Has anyone ever thought he is over there on business rather than vacation. Or combining business with vacation? It’s a long shot, but he may be over there to discuss helping DP and discussing manufacturing/supplier issues with his supplier/s.

If I am correct in assuming he was on a podcast in the Netherlands, isn’t that a strange place to do a podcast, unless you are already there on business? Why take time away from your family vacation to go on a podcast other than to try and reassure your customers? He would only do this if he thought it was a big issue. He is trying to get ahead of the issue. Personally, his comments will please some and leave the others more upset because he didn’t answer the questions those that have the issues expect.

If he is such a great owner, as some suggest, by offering up his phone number, why didn’t he provide it? It’s not like I can get it from the phone book. That answer is just laughable to anyone who knows how an international manufacturing company works. It’s a canned response. If I have to call the owner, either he has issues with his customer service personnel and their resolution processes or his QA/QC process has broken down. Either way, the company is not being run properly at this moment in time.

Actions always speak louder than words.

#1611 3 months ago
Quoted from Manic:

Man I wouldn't try to minimize this calling it " cosmetic chipping"... this is BARE WOOD showing on PF's in the first month.
Ridiculous.

Agree it sucks - but it's not killing the game. Maybe shoot some CA under the exposed edge.. A little color matching acrylic dabbed in and you probably wouldn't know it unless you went hunting for it.

It sucks that NIB is not flawless... but 'worst thing that can happen' to a pinball machine. No.

-9
#1612 3 months ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

I truly feel that JJP is a great company.

LOL.

You swooped in on these threads and tried to pretend like you were the hero of the pinball masses and that months of silence and inaction on POTC/Wonka would be broken because the great and powerful Richie cancelled his order! I'm sure you mean well, but you are not a celebrity of any kind and no one really cares that you specifically cancelled your order. Just so you know. The only thing we have received recently is a shady copying of Stern's playfield damage disclaimer and a podcast full of sycophants lying to us saying NOW they will return our phone calls?!

JJP is NOT a great company. Please just stop.

#1613 3 months ago
Quoted from underlord:

Then you need to raise YOUR standards.
How much wear and tear in a month? C’mon man...

Read what I was replying to... who basically elevated condition over the notion of actually accepting the realities of owning and playing pinball machines.

14
#1614 3 months ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

so for those of you wondering if air was going back in on my Willy CE #12....NO...I am out still.
Thanks everyone

My friends and family have been on the edge of their seats all weekend wondering about this... I will pass the info along!

-28
#1615 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

if you buy your games to just be trophy queens... you're in the wrong hobby. The game intrinsically includes the idea of wear and tear. If you buy pinballs just to have perfect games.. you're going to hate the game.

Pinball machines naturally have wear and tear so who cares if they come fucked up out of the box?! If you expect a NIB machine to look NEW you’re dumb and in the wrong hobby!

#1616 3 months ago
Quoted from tpir:

My friends and family have been on the edge of their seats all weekend wondering about this... I will pass the info along!

Me too, i couldn't sleep worrying about it all night! Such a relief he's still out!

17
#1617 3 months ago
Quoted from tpir:

LOL.
You swooped in on these threads and tried to pretend like you were the hero of the pinball masses and that months of silence and inaction on POTC/Wonka would be broken because the great and powerful Richie cancelled his order! I'm sure you mean well, but you are not a celebrity of any kind and no one really cares that you specifically cancelled your order. Just so you know. The only thing we have received recently is a shady copying of Stern's playfield damage disclaimer and a podcast full of sycophants lying to us saying NOW they will return our phone calls?!
JJP is NOT a great company. Please just stop.

You can kiss my freakin ASS...I dont look for Fame or celebrity....Shit I hardly even post on here other than for the CE games. I love pinball and offer my collection to the public in my area Free to play. I just care for what is right and fair.

I am not asking for anyone to follow my lead or to do what I did. I just know that if something was to happen to my game...I would be.dragging Joe into this mess and I.am not going to do that to him

I hope JJP does the right thing and takes care.of this issue....other than that...I have said what I have felt on this issue.

Oh yeah....

AGAIN, KISS MY ASS.!!!!

-1
#1619 3 months ago
Quoted from SyntheticDavid:

Pinball machines naturally have wear and tear so who cares if they come fucked up out of the box?! If you expect a NIB machine to look NEW you’re dumb and in the wrong hobby!

Defects have been part of the NIB experience for way longer than you've been in the hobby it seems.

Registration, insert crackling, graining, cabinet touchups, scrapes, blemishes in powder, broken assemblies, misassembled mechanics... and the list goes on.

Again the point was if you put 'looking perfect' above everything else - you'll never want to play your games.

#1620 3 months ago

I’ve never seen this side of you before Richie.

-37
#1622 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Defects have been part of the NIB experience for way longer than you've been in the hobby it seems.
Registration, insert crackling, graining, cabinet touchups, scrapes, blemishes in powder, broken assemblies, misassembled mechanics... and the list goes on.
Again the point was if you put 'looking perfect' above everything else - you'll never want to play your games.

I’ve been in this hobby but it’s been within this last year that I joined this website full of faggots.

#1623 3 months ago
Quoted from pipes:

I’ve never seen this side of you before Richie.

His backside, lol

#1624 3 months ago
benice02 (resized).jpg
#1625 3 months ago
Quoted from pipes:

I’ve never seen this side of you before Richie.

Dude is an asshole...Takes alot to piss me off.

F@&% Him!!!!

I am just saying ...Let's give JJP a chance...I know this been going on for awhile with it showing up on some of the POTC playfields. And with the increase of those out there being made aware and it now showing up on Willy.

Okay I took a stand for me and for others. Not doing it for fame or celebrity status. Most like me for my passion...I am not saying that Inam always right...but it is nice to have those with passion with his hobby.

For him to say that....F$$& Him! He is a. Asshole.

Sorry....ASSHOLE!!! (that is for those out there that like it when I use my caps)

#1626 3 months ago

Looks like some thread ejections coming soon

#1627 3 months ago

Isn’t that pretty much all plumbers ASS’S
(Caps are for you Richie).

#1628 3 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Looks like some thread ejections coming soon

Do you mean because @greenhornet posted nudity?

#1629 3 months ago
Quoted from SyntheticDavid:

I’ve been in this hobby but it’s been within this last year that I joined this website full of faggots.

Huh huh he said faggots!

#1630 3 months ago

Just to defend Richie a little bit I will say this - I do believe that him cancelling his CE order bears a bit more weight than me doing the same thing or most other people on this site for that matter. Not that other JJP customers aren’t just as important but Richie’s reputation here certainly makes his stand more emphatic IMO.

#1631 3 months ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

I am just saying ...Let's give JJP a chance...I know this been going on for awhile with it showing up on some of the POTC playfields. And with the increase of those out there being made aware and it now showing up on Willy.

I agree, give JJP the opportunity to fix this. Prefer more disclosure along the way but hope for the best, plan for the worst to protect the playfields. I’ve spoken with Jack more than once in the past by phone and found him accessible. My JJPOTC has otherwise been mechanically great, minor tweaks, a blast to play. But right now I’d lean towards CGC rather than a new JJP or Stern as long as this isn’t addressed fully. The remakes have been excellent with the old process at the same factory that Williams made their cabinets and playfields, which are silk screened by hand rather than a printer robot. The cabinets use decals but they have been great. So, I’m gonna get MBr rather than Wonka or JP at this point.

#1632 3 months ago
Quoted from dts:

I agree, give JJP the opportunity to fix this. Prefer more disclosure along the way but hope for the best, plan for the worst to protect the playfields. I’ve spoken with Jack more than once in the past by phone and found him accessible. My JJPOTC has otherwise been mechanically great, minor tweaks, a blast to play. But right now I’d lean towards CGC rather than a new JJP or Stern as long as this isn’t addressed fully. The remakes have been excellent with the old process at the same factory that Williams made their cabinets and playfields, still silk screened by hand rather than a printer robot. So, I’m gonna get MBr rather than Wonka or JP at this point.

My Wonka is shooting and looking great, I can assure you Wonka’s code is and will be even more deeper then anyB/W I burn thru the easy ones too quick and once beaten they don’t hold the same allure.

#1633 3 months ago
Quoted from romulusx:

My Wonka is shooting and looking great, I can assure you Wonka’s code is and will be even more deeper then anyB/W I burn thru the easy ones too quick and once beaten they hol the same allure

New code is appealing, I agree. Good to hear you have a good one!

#1634 3 months ago

We are up to 10 units (2 standards and 8 LE) and this game has been polarizing. People are PMing me about issues with my games and taking pictures and asking if they can complain to Jack and company about it?? I don't usually have an opinion but guys/gals please let me handle it. I'm happy to talk to the guys at JJP about these issues but I want to see the results of what the games look like after 90+ days at least.

Thanks for all the info and I do appreciate the concerns of our customers and fans of the games. Let's see where this goes. Best,

Chris

#1635 3 months ago
Quoted from dts:

I agree, give JJP the opportunity to fix this.

That opportunity has come and gone, has it not?
He must have known there was serious pf issues with potc and did nothing.
The company couldn't even be arsed to fix stuff for wonka.

#1636 3 months ago
Quoted from SyntheticDavid:

I’ve been in this hobby but it’s been within this last year that I joined this website full of faggots.

Wow.

#1637 3 months ago
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:

We are up to 10 units (2 standards and 8 LE) and this game has been polarizing. People are PMing me about issues with my games and taking pictures and asking if they can complain to Jack and company about it?? I don't usually have an opinion but guys/gals please let me handle it. I'm happy to talk to the guys at JJP about these issues but I want to see the results of what the games look like after 90+ days at least.
Thanks for all the info and I do appreciate the concerns of our customers and fans of the games. Let's see where this goes. Best,
Chris

who are u ? A distributor?

#1638 3 months ago
Quoted from dts:

New code is appealing, I agree. Good to hear you have a good one!

I think wonka looks awesome.
However for me a nib should be about fun and excitement.
If i bought one, as it stands, it would instead be about worrying and nervousness.
What's the fun in that?

#1639 3 months ago

1. Anecdotal evidence that your machine isn't being effected by the issue has no real bearing on those that are. Saying things like "well i'm not having any chipping so there isn't a widespread problem", is shortsighted at best. And logically unsound. Fact is this IS a widespread problem, whether you want to admit it or not.

2. Saying people should just play their games and stop whining is also logically unsound. Do you really think people who pay 12,500$ for pinball machines don't play them? I would guess that the number who don't is slim to none. Take Richie for example. He personifies what pinball should be, allowing anyone who wants to play (and in the process devalue) his amazing collection. His voice should be the loudest here.

3. On the flip side, analogies are always a bad way to make an argument. Comparing a pinball machine to a car to make a point is pointless in this regard. A pinball machine is simply not a car, you may find similarities, but an apple is not an orange.

4. JJP is dropping the ball, hard. In any business, especially when you're relative small fry, customer satisfaction has to be #1. If short-sighted profits are all you care about, in an unnecessary industry where a single unit costs 8-12.5k, your business is going to fail in 2019, period. JJP should be doing everything in their power to make things right, immediately. They had customer good will on their side with Pirates, people were giving them the benefit of the doubt and allowing them to fix the situation. But the fact that they turned a blind eye and didn't change 1 thing causing the issue on their next release is very telling.

5. Contrast this with how Spooky handled the situation with TNA. Should they technically have sent out fully populated replacement playfields to those with issues? Sure. But doing so would have (probably) bankrupted the company so there needed to be a bit of leeway given. The real test was what happened after. They fixed the situation and showed they care about customer satisfaction above all else, securing lifelong customers and the future of their company.

5. To those of you still saying this isn't a problem, I say one thing. Raise your hand if you HAVEN'T cancelled your Wonka CE preorder?. Anyone, anyone?? ::crickets::

#1640 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

who are u ? A distributor?

Route operator

#1641 3 months ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

That opportunity has come and gone, has it not?
He must have known there was serious pf issues with potc and did nothing.
The company couldn't even be arsed to fix stuff for wonka.

Has it now?

You don’t know this. Why be such a freaking know it all when you don’t have all the facts.

See above.

They are a business, not your buddy. They have a macro view, not your ill informed, narrow minded opinion.

Be unhappy about the situation. Call it out all you want, but give them an opportunity to understand and fix before tearing them a new one!

How far back does GoTG go? They have clear puddling. Does that mean Stern are evil, uncaring, neglectful fucks for releasing games after GoTG that still have the problem?

#1642 3 months ago
Quoted from SyntheticDavid:

Pinball machines naturally have wear and tear so who cares if they come fucked up out of the box?! If you expect a NIB machine to look NEW you’re dumb and in the wrong hobby!

Methinks you don’t know what “New” means.

#1643 3 months ago
Quoted from SyntheticDavid:

I’ve been in this hobby but it’s been within this last year that I joined this website full of faggots.

Really creative put-down, good one! What’s your next trick, are you going to call us retarded?

GTFO dude, you contribute zero positive things to any conversation here, and I’m shocked you’re still allowed to hang around rambling on and on with your witless grammar school quality put-downs. If you’re going to insist on continually being a dick, at least put some creative thought into it OK? Thanks.

#1644 3 months ago
Quoted from pipes:

I believe that’s more accurate.

Probably more accurate.

#1645 3 months ago

Richie, JJP has been given many chances. All huge fails so far. I am not exaggerating when I say that podcast/statement from them is one of the most embarrassing things I have ever heard. Sounds like you are trying to take your anger and disappointment at JJP out on me, but I don't want to play internet psychologist.

In a perfect world, a big time fancy important collector would be enough to move the needle and show the company they need to do something drastic and fast. Maybe that playfield replacement plan is rolling out really soon. What do I know?

Enjoy the rest of this lovely thread and whatever you get in place of Wonka! Don't let this thread be the end of your sanity please

#1646 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

These are the same “collectors” that think people shaking their machines is abuse... who won’t take games to shows because they are afraid of them being handled or being played... and put 20-30% of the games price into mods on their games to doll them up. Yet can’t fix a simple switch stack and think schematics are hieroglyphs.... and what to define the “worst thing that can possibly happen” to a game to be 1/8” cosmetic chips around posts. Get real.
It sucks your new toy is no longer flawless... but that is inevitable in pinball. We spend good time and money rebuilding them... because they get broken, they wear, and they fail. Such is the life of a pinball machine.

when I noticed the chipping on my TNA that's how I first felt about it. But then in researching the issue what one finds is that most things that cause the most impact on a pinball is linked to the playfield and problems like that often accelerate the rebuild time. Some folks don't want to rebuild them and many folks buy a game knowing that in a few months they will sell it for near what they paid for it.

I decided that playfield issues on a new game was the line for me. A new game just shouldn't have playfield issues. Bang on the cabinet, iffy switch, bust node board I can take. Failed played; No.

just a quick question though - how many new in box games have you bought in the last 5 years @flynnibus ?

14
#1647 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Defects have been part of the NIB experience for way longer than you've been in the hobby it seems

It's funny. Almost every one of your posts comes off as condescending. First you suggest that complaining "collectors" are people who don't nudge their games, pay too much money for mods, and generally baby their games instead of play them. Then you pull the experience card. You do realize that each time we collectively take it up the ass from a manufacturer we lower the standards of each future game that is released.

What's next? Plastics and posts that come in baggies that the buyer installs? Maybe a game that doesn't come with balls. Let's keep lowering the bar while the prices continue to climb. No one is asking for perfection like you state. A playfield that holds up after a couple hundred plays is not perfection...it is the norm. It has been for a long time. You should know since you are such a seasoned collector.

#1648 3 months ago

This says it all:

zyx- 154719 (resized).png
#1649 3 months ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

To those of you still saying this isn't a problem, I say one thing. Raise your hand if you HAVEN'T cancelled your Wonka CE preorder?. Anyone, anyone?? ::crickets::

I came back to get help dealing with my Oktoberfest issues and couldn’t resist here

Yes I still have my CE order standing.

And its so nice to see such civility and politeness return to Pinside since I left. LOL

Deep breath! Yes it feels great NOT to be mired in all the BS day in and day out

Carry on

#1650 3 months ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

Do you really think people who pay 12,500$ for pinball machines don't play them?

where do think all these 'HUO - low plays' ads come from?

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