Don’t worry fellas every Wonka LE comes with this piece of paper in the top now!

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Agree with you. The real reason it was stopped is because of all the issues it had, not just PF. If they didn’t have those issues it seems, WW might have been the machine delayed. Any business with a hot product, will continue making it. It is a great design and well coded. Just not good in the way of quality, with lots of mechanical PF issues. Continuing to sell the machine, would have been a greater drain on the company with all the warranty issues. There are those that got the luck of the draw with little to no issues. Wanted to buy the machine, but with all the issues, didn’t think it was wise, given the lack of good support etc.

That's awesome - basically saying we can't build a defect free game so deal with it
From the experts I have heard on clear coating, you can build a smooth, dimple free, puddle free, chip free PF if you use the correct products and you use them correctly
Even with a pinball rolling around the PF - it's possible but may be cost prohibitive

Trolling, right? This looks word for word what Stern put in the manuals around 2017.

This is legal-ease trying to exempt the company of poor workmanship at the factory and sub-quality playfields. Don’t think this is good for the industry, no matter the company putting in this type of letter of excuses at these high prices. If an automobile came with this disclaimer at $12,500.00 how many people would be fine with it and purchase the car or high end appliance? This is not good for the industry, because everything and anything is passable with this letter of excuses for poor quality. The investors are trying to exempt themselves from liability. I for one will not purchase any high priced toy with this kind of warranty exemption. The 2nd hand market will not be kind to those that buy NIB and try to sell later, a high priced toy that looks like trash.

On the plus side it doesn’t mention bubbling, chipping and the pf peeling like a large yellow onion.

Agree, there is already a Wonka for sale in a regional thread and the seller had to advise that there is pooling around the posts

Definitely a troll (thanks for downvoting me).

From the Stern Star Wars manual: https://sternpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/StarWars_Pro_web.pdf

Stern Pinball machines are assembled in Elk Grove Village, Illinois, USA. Stern Pinball has inspected each game element to ensure it meets our quality standards.

Each pinball machine has unique characteristics that make it a one-of-a-kind American made product. Each will have variations in appearance resulting from differences
in the machine’s particular wood parts, individual printed art and mechanical assemblies. No playfield is perfectly flat and varies depending on the season. Game play will result in playfield dimpling as the harder steel ball contacts the wood and coating; over time multiple dimples will blend to make them less noticeable.

Normal plastic insert crazing (tiny stress cracks) and ghosting (small cloudy areas around insert edges) are often seen in pinball machines, due to a combination of plastic mold stress, pushing of inserts into purposely undersized holes, and heating and breaking of inserts’ plastic “skin” when the playfield field is sanded.

If Stern is doing this too, then I’m disappointed in them. However, it seems they do replace populated PF under warranty at no cost. If any company attempts to rely on that type of BS saying it’s a one of a kind product, with ghosting and chipping being part of the machine, then that might be the end of any company applying this ill-gotten philosophy.

And that was pretty much how Pinside reacted in 2017 to this. And yet here we are and Stern is still thriving

I’m not trolling, that is legit what came in the top of my Wonka LE.

Thanks for showing this. It is upsetting that this industry is trying to get away with poor quality under the guise of being unique. These toys are too expensive to not to continue to look good, even after playing thousands of games. The only hope is, I’ve seen Stern replace my friends ghosting or chipping PF to this point. If they ever change that stance, I will no longer support them and will either stop buying all together or buy only at steeply discounted prices from the second hand market. 2nd hand buyers will be the only winners, if this becomes the norm, imo.

Wow. My apologies. I legitimately thought you were having fun with us.

Nah, I wish I was, my wonka has what everyone is calling “pooling” at the posts, and that was as soon as I took it out of the box, before even playing a game. I talked to Steve at JJP about it, so they are aware. I think the issue is soft clear coat, and when the posts are tightened it mushrooms out.

Same. I notified my distributor about it after unboxing as a "hey, heads up on this in case it worsens" thing.
The deepest "pool" is on the left above the outlane. The only other Wonka I've seen so far was an LE on location and it had the exact same patterns of pooling.

So far it has not progressed into chipping. We have over 1800 plays on it and it's holding solid.

I AM OUT. NO MORE NIB STERN OR JJP FOR ME. EVER. THIS IS DUMB

Until JJP sends ONE populated playfield to ONE customer with a crap playfield, a comparison doesn't exist. Is what it is. Very, very sad.

I'll try to read (keep up w) a few of these and minimize the redundant statements. Just hoping to see a pic or report of the right thing being done.

100% out on anything JJP...might still buy Stern, as I'm confident they will eventually fix the issue.....

I thought so too..

So this is it then.. their solution...deal with it, “we’re warning you , open at your own risk “

JJP must have adopted Joe Katz’s tag line, the new company slogan is “ JJP : What you see is what you get”

this should be on there website / game flyer not inside the box AFTER you have bought it.

Crap I thought thats whats ON the box, not IN it..

Pathetic, and they even were lazy enough to steal parts of that letter directly from Stern, word for word...

The real worry though is that what you cannot see..yet!

You guys realize that letter says nothing about chipping or rippling?

It does cover many of the other issues we’ve seen over the years though such as ghosting, crazing, dumpling etc.....

This isn’t what these threads are about and that letter doesn’t even touch on that the real issue.

Hope bout all us who bought games prior to this letter?

Seriously hope this isn’t the official response that was coming because if so they are really doubling down on their fuck up and could be the nail in the coffin.

I was there when he unboxed this game. That letter is legit.

JJP is a joke. Shame on them.

But this letter is the same wording that Stern began using in their manuals after Ghostbusters ghosting.

Guaranteed the next edition of the manual will also mention pooling. We’re already hearing distributors talking the same when questioned about the pooling.

Damn..

Well my next JJP purchase will be done with bills printed with vanishing ink.. see how that goes down

Stern did me right with a whole playfield swap for AC/DC premium vault and it only took 4 months. JJP ain’t gonna do JACK sh$t

Your playfield was free, assembly labor was free, shipping was free, and we sold you the components at our cost after Charlie reached out to you to try and help reach a resolution. Our warranty covered and replaced the part that failed as it states and that was the best we could do. You said all we did was send out washers, and that is not the case at all is the point.

Charlie wasn't saying you were hiding behind a keyboard, that was aimed elsewhere.

And next time you fly across the Atlantic and come to a show PLEASE come talk to us if we are busy or not. I swear we are nice people and really do care.

I had funds ready and waiting for Wonka and GNR. But, I'm also someone who would obsess over the pooling issue with a game in my home. My pinball funds are officially on hold for JJP and Stern. Here's hoping they figure this out. And JJP needs to really work on their customer service. 3 unanswered voice mails and 1 unanswered online ticket for me (not playfield related). Never was like that in the past.

I have to give it to Chas at Stern. He always answers or gets back to you. That's how it should be done. And Spooky Pinball too! Their customer service has always been top notch!!

Brian

Yup.... Zero harm on consumer's end to wait this out and hold off on NIB purchases.
All this pinball is a want, nothing is a need.

My thought too. The risk seems real, which is a damn shame. I’m sure someone else will fill the void if they implode...

What kind of components did he have to buy and why should he have had to buy anything at all? Im a little confused here.

LOL... No... JJP isn't going anywhere and the hysteria will calm down... I swear, the internet was invented almost entirely for the purposes of generating great hype and great hysteria... Neither are terribly good for humanity...

Jeff

That letter looks like they are doubling down to me. Good luck to them when they lose half the orders for their machines if they don’t make people with defective PF’s whole.

If these defective playfields are the “new normal” I will never buy another pin from JJP.

Have you confirmed this as fact or are you trolling/talking out your ass again?

We get it, you hate JJP for whatever reason. But, please stop stating wild speculation as facts.

That's been on their support > warranty page for at least a few weeks...

https://www.jerseyjackpinball.com/support/

Just look at a Stern Galaxy Backbox and compare to a Bally Lost World Stern stole more than words back in the day.

I’m a member of a guitar and saxophone forum as well. With saxophones the big issue is called acid bleed. But the big players never experience these issues because they manufacture to make only the best, and trust me you pay for it. With the guitars, you’re dealing with wood, exotic wood, etc and once again they don’t experience any issues at the top LeFevour manufacturers. Maybe it’s time for pinball to learn some wood making secrets from some of the best guitar manufacturers.

Thanks! More for the rest of us... I just don't understand the massive overreaction here...

Jeff

I don't think NIB purchasers should either, so we're in agreement there. These companies NEED to have planning for these scenarios included in their business plans, because it just seems to happen all the time. I'm sure Stern does, and Spooky seems to be the only one taking actual preventative action instead of always being on the defensive when these things happen.

But it was still silly to say that the reason that people shouldn't have to do a playfield swap is their own incompetence or lack of tooling. The truth is, you pay for a product, you expect that it's going to wear over time....not two or three weeks later to look like it was cleared in some guy's garage by an amateur. I guarantee that if my Tron, Met, or AC/DC Premium (the only games I've bought NIB) had showed up with these issues, I'd be on my distro as much as everyone currently affected by this current round of issues is.... and that was at 4200 pro and 5700 premium prices, not even the ludicrous current models.

Lol
Meta!

I can only say this so many times, but I have a JJP Pirates game with over 2000 plays and there is NOTHING wrong with it. I have a pincade with brand new Stern Games, they're played every single day, and there isn't a chip anywhere. I have a Wonka no chips nothing everything is fine... that is not to say something isn't going to happen but Pirates over 2000 plays and it doesn't even have so much as a scratch. C'mon... is it really fair to act like this is an wide spread conspiracy? Most people aren't having this problem, could it just be there are a few bad ones across thousands of games?

With that being said if you have a playfield with these issues the supplier should give you a new one end of story. I'm just wondering if this is being made out like zombie breakout... a couple people got bit so now the entire world is going down the tubes.

Every single one of my Stern games are fine! Every single one of my JJP games are fine, and I have all five of them.

I think this might be a handful of machines issue, that is turning into an epidemic.

I'm going to keep buying Stern NIB games, because I trust Stern, they know what they're doing.

I'm going to keep buying JJP NIB games, because I trust JJP, they know what they're doing.

If or when I actually have a problem, I will call that manufacture and deal with them direct. But after buying tons of Sterns, and every single JJP no problems. I can't be the only person who doesn't have an issue.

Again everyone that does get unlucky and your machine has any issues, whatever that issue is, you should get top notch customer support and I believe both JJP and Stern will work with you to address the issue. Lastly I will only say the best thing to do is to work directly with Stern or JJP not pinside. Pinside can't do anything, make your case to the manufacturer. I have been in business for a long time and i've never found that i could solve problems thru posting on a message board. You get on the phone and hammer away to get what you want... it works 99 times out of a 100. Both Stern and JJP are great companies and work with their customers otherwise they don't stay in business.

I haven't seen them replace a playfield, but I know of three people's machines who were replaced entirely. Two from pinside and one locally. Hell, people have even posted about it before on these post pooling threads. I would be a little more sure of things you say before you post it as fact, because clearly in this case you're wrong.

Hahaha good grief, trading? Pfft... Most people are in agreement it's an issue, but some people, like myself aren't going to let it stop me from enjoying the pins. I just bought a Wonka and JP, and both have pooling. I knew about the risk before hand, and again, even though I think it's an issue, I'm not going to let it stop me from enjoying my pins. Every pin I've ever had started to show wear at some point (unfortunately the newer ones don't last as long as the older ones), and if it's a major concern I'll go back to the manufacturer and hopefully they will make it right. Any issue I've ever had both stern and JJP have been very responsive, and mostly corrected the issues I had. It may of took a little longer than I preferred, but neither have left me out to dry as of yet. YMMV, but my experience has been mostly positive with most pin manufacturers.

When the original Stern controversy broke (the aforementioned text), I was new to pinball and had just purchased a Star Wars. I took the Pinside hysteria to heart and checked for ghosting - found none. I posted pics and of course Pinside decided I was wrong and yes I absolutely had ghosting.

My takeaway from this was "Pinside is insane" and went back to enjoying my machine.

My opinion on the matter has not changed.