(Topic ID: 249691)

Wonka LE Sling Post Chipping in one month!!


By rs812

3 months ago



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There are 2217 posts in this topic. You are on page 22 of 45.
#1051 86 days ago

I dont like to whine about every little thing on a pinball machine , no time , the guys I buy from get a message, and I certainly dont feel that if I have not submitted a ticket to JJP, that the problem isnt real.

Of my last 4 nib, (stern& JJP equal) 4 have had it.. gues thats a double double super jackpot !

Customer-distributor-manufacturer is the right way to get it rolling.

1%. ay, Sjeesh , you think so, get real mr bally.

10
#1052 86 days ago

Just ignore that guy. He'll quickly tire of the pointless bickering if he's punching air.

#1053 86 days ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

I dont like to whine about every little thing on a pinball machine , no time , the guys I buy from get a message, and I certainly dont feel that if I have not submitted a ticket to JJP, that the problem isnt real.
Of my last 4 nib, (stern& JJP equal) 4 have had it.. gues thats a double double super jackpot !
Customer-distributor-manufacturer is the right way to get it rolling.
1%. ay, Sjeesh , you think so, get real mr bally.

Yeah I for one have not submitted JJP tickets on this issue nor have I (yet) requested the playfield offer. The reason is I would need to submit a photo of the chipping which means removing the star posts. I haven't had the glass off of POTC in many weeks (yay!) so I'll get to it when I get to it.

-1
#1054 86 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

Ask the distributors.

Oh Ok maybe I will

13
#1055 86 days ago

12 days of play, luckilly its only 1% of the playfield..

Groovy stuff , but I prefer another kind

98AA036C-5649-487D-92AF-0D96FF220B21 (resized).jpegD42498F4-68E2-4E5B-9ADA-3E4419040521 (resized).jpeg
22
#1056 86 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

well less than 7 have reported issues to JJP, so where are the other 93

That great news, so since the numbers of playfields affected are miniscule, there shouldn´t be any problem replacing them all and make the customers happy.

Really great news and i do hope it comes with a promise?

17
#1057 86 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

all I am saying is its not widespread be lucky if its more than 1%

That's awesome news! Since that's the case, I'm sure JJP would be more than happy to resolve the issue for the <1% of effected customers by sending them a fully populated play field.

#1058 86 days ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

12 days of play, luckilly its only 1% of the playfield..
Groovy stuff , but I prefer another kind

holy smokes, how tight were those starposts installed ?

#1059 86 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

That great news, so since the numbers of playfields affected are miniscule, there shouldn´t be any problem replacing them all and make the customers happy.
Really great news and i do hope it comes with a promise?

Damn. You beat my by 26 seconds.

#1060 86 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Oh Ok maybe I will

Why do you assume that everyone's first reaction is to contact the manufacturer instead of the company that sold them the game? The number of open tickets through the JJP site means absolutely nothing. You're spewing the same type of pure BS that you were spewing in the Homepin thread (RIP).

#1061 86 days ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Yeah I for one have not submitted JJP tickets on this issue nor have I (yet) requested the playfield offer. The reason is I would need to submit a photo of the chipping which means removing the star posts. I haven't had the glass off of POTC in many weeks (yay!) so I'll get to it when I get to it.

Quoted from bounoun:

holy smokes, how tight were those starposts installed ?

The wood is bulging on the underside...

“We have top men working on it “

#1062 86 days ago
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

Damn. You beat my by 26 seconds.

You think as i do.

#1063 86 days ago

I contacted my distro and he told me to submit a ticket and jjp would make a statement soon. And guess what, no response to my ticket yet.

#1064 86 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

That great news, so since the numbers of playfields affected are miniscule, there shouldn´t be any problem replacing them all and make the customers happy.
Really great news and i do hope it comes with a promise?

Spot on 100%....

They wouldn’t have let this fester to this point if it was such a small number.

How incredibly stupid of them would that be if that was the case.

#1065 86 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

Why do you assume that everyone's first reaction is to contact the manufacturer instead of the company that sold them the game? The number of open tickets through the JJP site means absolutely nothing. You're spewing the same type of pure BS that you were spewing in the Homepin thread (RIP).

Ok fair enough so we have had 2 Distributors on here and one sells more JJP games than any other Distributor outside the USA

and only a few have been reported to those.

I just don't know what to tell you, they might be on pinside posting etc but not reporting it

#1066 86 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

all I am saying is its not widespread be lucky if its more than 1%

so lets assume for a second your correct and its less than 1% of the games. So your telling me that JJP is handling the warranty issue correctly? Thus far their solution is to sell that customer a $550 play field....u can't possibly agree with that solution? Who ever came up with that solution should be fired on the spot....if its less than 1% than replace the play field with a new one....the reality is its waaayyyyy more than that, and JJP can't afford to replace these play fields, because they have no "free cash"..... clearly the investors are sick of throwing good money after bad....Jack may be a good salesman, but clearly he knows nothing about running a large manufacturing business....JJP is running out of gas

#1067 86 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

so lets assume for a second your correct and its less than 1% of the games. So your telling me that JJP is handling the warranty issue correctly? Thus far their solution is to sell that customer a $550 play field....u can't possibly agree with that solution? Who ever came up with that solution should be fired on the spot....if its less than 1% than replace the play field with a new one....the reality is its waaayyyyy more than that, and JJP can't afford to replace these play fields, because they have no "free cash"..... clearly the investors are sick of throwing good money after bad....Jack may be a good salesman, but clearly he knows nothing about running a large manufacturing business....JJP is running out of gas

Yep...if the Captain doesn’t reverse course of the ship, straight to Davey Jones locker goes the ship...lol

#1068 86 days ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

12 days of play, luckilly its only 1% of the playfield..
Groovy stuff , but I prefer another kind[quoted image][quoted image]

Wow, looks like the clear is made from bubblegum

-4
#1069 86 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

so lets assume for a second your correct and its less than 1% of the games. So your telling me that JJP is handling the warranty issue correctly? Thus far their solution is to sell that customer a $550 play field....u can't possibly agree with that solution? Who ever came up with that solution should be fired on the spot....if its less than 1% than replace the play field with a new one....the reality is its waaayyyyy more than that, and JJP can't afford to replace these play fields, because they have no "free cash"..... clearly the investors are sick of throwing good money after bad....Jack may be a good salesman, but clearly he knows nothing about running a large manufacturing business....JJP is running out of gas

my comment was re Stern and the 10,000 games last year was the 1% comment

The $550 playfield was a guy who bought a used game which was out of Warranty, I am sure JJP will take care of its customers, the same as Stern will.

#1070 86 days ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

12 days of play, luckilly its only 1% of the playfield..
Groovy stuff , but I prefer another kind[quoted image][quoted image]

any pooling around posts NOT with ink under the post? Just cleared Timber

#1071 86 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

my comment was re Stern and the 10,000 games last year was the 1% comment
The $550 playfield was a guy who bought a used game which was out of Warranty, I am sure JJP will take care of its customers, the same as Stern will.

Wrong again

The $550 offer is the offer at the moment for all customers, several have bought already.

They sent me the same offer which I haven’t accepted yet and won’t until there is some sort of statement from them.

#1072 86 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

my comment was re Stern and the 10,000 games last year was the 1% comment
The $550 playfield was a guy who bought a used game which was out of Warranty, I am sure JJP will take care of its customers, the same as Stern will.

So do you think its reasonable that JJP replaces these play fields or simply ignore the issue? Stern in the past has replaced play fields with problems. Thus far all JJP has done is told its customers to pound salt.....its a really bad business decision, and unless they change course it will lead to their demise.

#1073 86 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

Wrong again
The $550 offer is the offer at the moment for all customers, several have bought already.
They sent me the same offer which I haven’t accepted yet and won’t until there is some sort of statement from them.

Can't understand why anyone would buy a replacement PF
A) To fix a manufacturing defect that should be the responsibility of the manufacturer
B) For an issue they have yet to publicly acknowledge and say it's fixed 100%

And when they actually do fix this for good (which at this point I still have confidence they will) then you still need the skill and hours required to do a PF swap
Can you imagine if Ford had a recall and not only made you buy the new part, but shipped it to your home for you to install.

#1074 86 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Can't understand why anyone would buy a replacement PF
A) To fix a manufacturing defect that should be the responsibility of the manufacturer
B) For an issue they have yet to publicly acknowledge and say it's fixed 100%
And when they actually do fix this for good (which at this point I still have confidence they will) then you still need the skill and hours required to do a PF swap
Can you imagine if Ford had a recall and not only made you buy the new part, but shipped it to your home for you to install.

Its indicative of the industry. Manufacturers have a sweet heart deal. For the most part they NEVER or RARELY provide any on site services to customers. They all rely on the customer to actually provide the services. Supplying the parts is cheap. What gets really expensive is the labor to do the work....which is why JJP's solution is even more surprising....I can't imagine that the play field costs Mirco and more than $200...yet JJP is trying to sell the play field for $550....its crazy that someone really thought that was a good idea...

#1075 86 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

Can't understand why anyone would buy a replacement PF
A) To fix a manufacturing defect that should be the responsibility of the manufacturer
B) For an issue they have yet to publicly acknowledge and say it's fixed 100%
And when they actually do fix this for good (which at this point I still have confidence they will) then you still need the skill and hours required to do a PF swap
Can you imagine if Ford had a recall and not only made you buy the new part, but shipped it to your home for you to install.

I agree with all of this.

I asked them if I drove my PF over to JJp in NJ if they could assist in swapping for me.

They told me he’ll no, asked about getting populated pf for $550, said not possible.

Can’t imagine attempting a swap on this particular game, there is so much shit on the PF....countless things can go wrong for the average hack!

#1076 86 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

Ask the distributors.

I do believe he (Ballypinball) is the distributor for Australia no? Apologies if mistaken.

#1077 86 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

It is not a widespread problem

Really?

#1078 86 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I bought 2 games last year and they both have issues so thats 100% for me.

Sorry to hear that, did Stern replace your playfields?

13
#1079 86 days ago

Out of our 9 most recent purchases only two games have not had this defect and that is Alice Cooper and Oktoberfest

Effected titles :

Pirates LE, Black Knight Pro, Beatles Gold, Batman 66, Wonka LE, Jurassic Park Pro, Munsters Premium

In my data group it is effecting 78 percent of the playfields , and only from Stern and JJP

#1080 86 days ago

If there is a documented problem due to their negligence it is their responsibility to fix it. It doesn't matter what kind of warranty they offer or if it wasn't reasonable etc...or if you purchased or filed for a warranty -- or not. This is a defect right from the factory, which is a different realm than standard failure of equipment covered by warranties.

Individual action wouldn't be of much use and too expensive, impractical. However, a class action suit would be possible and would probably be effective, given the widespread nature of these issues. The customer has a reasonable cause to expect a non-defective product. If we're talking about a defective electric toothbrush that a manufacturer refuses to replace, that's one thing. However, at $7500 and beyond, it would be considered relevant in a court of law that there were widespread, systematic failures in the products produced by Jersey Jack Pinball or Stern Pinball.

Through the lens of a class action suit, a reasonable settlement would be for Stern or JJP to provide populated playfields to those who could (conclusively) prove that their PF is suffering from the issues discussed. Installation would be a nice touch from the manufacturer, but the judge would probably be content with the company offering a fully populated PF ready for install for each effected party.

Merely providing a PF (that they are making profit from!) does not even begin to solve the problem that was inflicted upon unsuspecting customers with reasonable cause to assume they were receiving a non-defective product.

These companies have liability...but it all depends on how far we - as a group - are willing to take this. Often, the legal costs and headaches just aren't worth it. This is what many smaller companies such as Stern or JJP who exist in a niche market...are depending upon.

But their legal asses are potentially swinging in the wind here.

#1081 86 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I agree with all of this.
I asked them if I drove my PF over to JJp in NJ if they could assist in swapping for me.
They told me he’ll no, asked about getting populated pf for $550, said not possible.
Can’t imagine attempting a swap on this particular game, there is so much shit on the PF....countless things can go wrong for the average hack!

The most cost effective solution for JJP is to send customers a box/crate. The customer (at his or her own cost) would have to remove the play field and send back the entire play field to JJP. JJP would then do the swap in their factory and send back the populated play field. All JJP would be out is the shipping costs, and the labor to do the swap.....yes it would suck for the customer as he or she would have to figure out how to do the swap, and then pray they don't damage the cabinet when doing it.

#1082 86 days ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

I do believe he (Ballypinball) is the distributor for Australia no? Apologies if mistaken.

He sounds like is, but even so, he's only one of many. Speaking of his experience as if it's indicative of the entire industry is complete BS.

#1083 86 days ago

Perhaps JJP wouldn't be in this predicament if they did a more rigorous job on testing and quality control before pushing games out of the building? I would be embarrassed to be representing JJP with the numerous issues that early and mid-run POTC's had when they left the building. Most of those issues would have been caught at the factory if they at least did some comprehensive testing by hand before the glass went on. Instead, the finished product quality was that which would resemble an assembly staff doing a Chinese fire drill every day.

#1084 86 days ago

I’m curious to know why people haven’t noticed this issue on Mirco reproduction playfields before. Are they using a different clear on JJP playfields vs their own?

#1085 86 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

any pooling around posts NOT with ink under the post? Just cleared Timber

No its everywhere,

Im seeing what I see a lot when I get back race helmets for repair , bunching of paint Exactly like this around the visor screw Pivots

When I deliver the a new freshly painted helmet , I always say, when you change the visor, hand tighten down, that will do the trick.
Some ignore it, and because the clear Inc underlaying artwork are twisted/squeezed so hard, the bond or key with the base breaks and it flexes slowly around the pivot. Being soft this is possible, after the hardening continues, the trapped air underneath can still expand and contract, but now the paint wont flex anymore and .. chips under the stress.

So once the bond has been broken, it will never return.

I heated up the affected areas on my “Willy” with a hair dryer , and as hoped, the air expanded, you could hear the pop when it broke the seal with the paint squeezed into the paint , and then settled down flat.
After cooling it would not come up again.
Did this on 7 post that were in sight, and replaced with washers of the same diameter as the posts or slightly bigger. This helps to spread the load instead of just the starpost edge digging in.

For now this should hold up, but the deeper issue remains

#1086 86 days ago

Pic might help..

CE15B0F3-49C4-4FCB-BDB6-259189DFFF47 (resized).jpeg
#1087 86 days ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Sorry to hear that, did Stern replace your playfields?

Just turned in a ticket on one of the games and haven't turned one in on the other yet. We will see what happens. One of them is minor and doesn't matter as long as it doesn't get worse but one actually has a chip out of the artwork and some pretty bad pooling around a couple of the other posts.

-1
#1088 86 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Perhaps JJP wouldn't be in this predicament if they did a more rigorous job on testing and quality control before pushing games out of the building? I would be embarrassed to be representing JJP with the numerous issues that early and mid-run POTC's had when they left the building. Most of those issues would have been caught at the factory if they at least did some comprehensive testing by hand before the glass went on. Instead, the finished product quality was that which would resemble an assembly staff doing a Chinese fire drill every day.

Then people would be whining the games aren't shipping fast enough... Literally can win either way...

Jeff

#1089 85 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

I’m curious to know why people haven’t noticed this issue on Mirco reproduction playfields before.

I just completed a swap with a Mirco this week.I purchased the playfield in March 2018 and did not start populating it until about 60 days ago. The first thing I did was put one post on in a hidden location and slightly overtighten it. The clear underneath the test post remained stable and no rippling or displacement was noted. The restoration is not complete so I have not played any games on it, but so far everything looks rock solid.
Something must have been changed....

#1090 85 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

Then people would be whining the games aren't shipping fast enough... Literally can win either way...
Jeff

Well if they came out and said there is a delay because we don't want you to get a playfield that will start disintegrating before you open the box, I'm sure people would be more understanding.

#1091 85 days ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

12 days of play, luckilly its only 1% of the playfield..
Groovy stuff , but I prefer another kind[quoted image][quoted image]

Your pictures look very similar to my SE playfield. I notified JJP on two different occasions. The first time they sent the POTC “fix”. I also provided pictures in a follow-up email. No response to that as of yet.

I also notified my distributor of this as well as other issues that they either HAVE already fixed, or have said they WOULD fix once a solution was ready, mostly for posterity.

I have to imagine that distributors with a bunch of these in stock are cringing, wondering how many are just like these. You can talk about percentages and tickets all day, but how many WW SEs and LEs out there have we seen that DON’T have some form of this after a few days (if not right out of the box).

Shame too, because the game is incredible, and this shouldn’t be the defining story of it.

#1092 85 days ago
Quoted from Pinballer67:

This is a defect right from the factory, which is a different realm than standard failure of equipment covered by warranties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty

... an implied warranty is a contract law term for certain assurances that are presumed to be made in the sale of products or real property, due to the circumstances of the sale. These assurances are characterized as warranties irrespective of whether the seller has expressly promised them orally or in writing. They include an implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose, an implied warranty of merchantability for products, implied warranty of workmanlike quality for services ...

An implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose is a warranty implied by law that if a seller knows or has reason to know of a particular purpose for which some item is being purchased by the buyer, the seller is guaranteeing that the item is fit for that particular purpose.

An implied warranty of merchantability is a warranty implied by law that goods are reasonably fit for the general purpose for which they are sold.

#1093 85 days ago

So what happens if you skipped the distributor route and ordered directly from JJP, and they are still ignoring you after nearly two weeks?

I know of several local NIB JJP multi-game purchasers who will never buy another because of JJP’s non-response

#1094 85 days ago
Quoted from Agima2000:

The service is even underground.
I asked the JJP Google groups if there was a solution to the problem, they had a very quick fix for me.
Within 1 minute I was deleted from the group.
I've had all 4 JJP pinball machines so far, so I'm out now.

Are you serious????? Absolutely unbelievable.............

#1095 85 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

I’m curious to know why people haven’t noticed this issue on Mirco reproduction playfields before. Are they using a different clear on JJP playfields vs their own?

It's on the recent Mircos direct PFs, too. Someone showed pics of one with the same issue in another thread.

#1096 85 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I would be embarrassed to be representing JJP with the numerous issues that early and mid-run POTC's had when they left the building.

those functionality issues, along with todays chipping problem, are taking place after a months long wait following the games reveal at expo 2017 while JJP removed/reworked the dysfunctional treasure chest and spinning discs.

reveal >> removal/rework of key game features >> months long wait for these adjustments to be made >> upon eventual delivery, customers facing mechanical/functionality issues >> chipping playfields >>

history has shown, few JJP releases are trouble free.

why did you ever go and make games so complicated?

#1097 85 days ago

FYI Ballypinball is a JJP distributor and he buys container loads of JJP games.

#1098 85 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

I’m curious to know why people haven’t noticed this issue on Mirco reproduction playfields before. Are they using a different clear on JJP playfields vs their own?

One of the podcasts mentioned the possibility that Stern and JJP could be paying for inferior clear to save money.

#1099 85 days ago
Quoted from Adipocere:

Shame too, because the game is incredible, and this shouldn’t be the defining story of it.

This kind of reminds me of Ghostbusters all over again. Everyone loved the game and then the playfields were shit and everyone lost interest in it because of it. Ghostbusters would have sold way better had it not been for the playfield problems.

#1100 85 days ago
Quoted from Spelunk71:

One of the podcasts mentioned the possibility that Stern and JJP could be paying for inferior clear to save money.

Given how long it's gone on (at least 5 machines worth of playfields with various degrees of this issue at Stern, 2 at JJP), I doubt it something so simple. If it were as simple as "buy better clear" it would have happened already last year. It's likely a combination of factors in the printing/clear/cure process and the balance and product mix are the key.

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