(Topic ID: 249691)

Wonka LE Sling Post Chipping in one month!!


By rs812

3 months ago



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#951 87 days ago
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:

I think it’s a huge deal. And I’m completely obsessive with my pins. I don’t want it on my games and it most certainly bothers me. Again Zach even stated it was a problem and it needed to be fixed. My post was that it was his personal opinion. That in no way effects what he knows is right for his customers. Do you honestly think that Zach is sitting by doing nothing? People can flame Zach all day over that opinion and it’s an opinion that, again I don’t agree with but to insinuate that the guy is a bad distributor and he’s not going to do everything within his limits to resolve the problem ludicrous
I’m not defending his comments. I’m defending the guy as a great distributor

You’re right I don’t know what he is like as a distro.

As a YouTuber he can say whatever he wants. As a pinsider he can as well. But as a distributor who looks after customers he can’t make light of people’s playfield issues.

I can understand Zach is feeling torn. It’s a fine line because he can’t say “don’t buy anymore machines people!”

As a customer who has been affected by this issue, it has been a frustrating experience. I have actually bought 2 machines this year. The 2nd I bought because I believed it would not be plagued by this issue. I was lucky with the 2nd. If it had been reported that it did have these issues, I would not have bought it. Far too much money to spend on something that is not going to look perfect when new and may get worse in a year. I have had to correct it on my own without any help but from the good people on pinside. If it had just been a rubber washer under a couple of slings I would not be posting now. At least you are all aware. We had no idea what we were getting into.

As a distributor this sort of talk must scare the shit out of Zach. Hopefully a solution can be found real quick.

Anyway wish you guys all the best. Thanks for replying Greg. Hope you enjoy your JP2!

#952 87 days ago

Has anybody moved a post after the “washer fix”? Won’t there just be a washer sized ring instead of a post sized ring? Even if it prevents the ripplechip(tm) somehow, this is not a solution for adjustable posts.

#953 87 days ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Has anybody moved a post after the “washer fix”? Won’t there just be a washer sized ring instead of a post sized ring? Even if it prevents the ripplechip(tm) somehow, this is not a solution for adjustable posts.</blockquote\>

Funny you should ask. I just did this yesterday to give my machine a good cleaning and didn’t want wax all over my star posts.

Surprisingly the neoprene washers I bought from Lowe’s did not leave any impression in PF and if anything may have flAttened the rippling out as it wasn’t noticeable.
My chip is obviously still there and hidden but I was pleasantly surprised to not find more damage.

#954 87 days ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Has anybody moved a post after the “washer fix”? Won’t there just be a washer sized ring instead of a post sized ring? Even if it prevents the ripplechip(tm) somehow, this is not a solution for adjustable posts.

Did this yesterday to do a good cleaning of my POTC and surprisingly the neoprene washers from lowes appear to have flattened out the rippling with no further impressions or chipping etc...

They seem firm enough to stabilize post and absorb the impact but are softer than the clear coat below so don’t dig in.

Wish this fix was known sooner, probably could have prevented the chipping.

#955 87 days ago
Quoted from j_m_:

fiber washers are another good alternative. they are not that thick, but would provide a small layer of compressible protection between the playfield and the post. I would also recommend sanding the bottoms of the posts (many of them still have a small portion of the injection mold sprues attached to them
what's interesting is that bandai has completely changed the way that they injection mold their model kits so that the sprues end up on an interior edge that is completely hidden and doesn't come into play for mating parts
amazon.com link »

So here are a few pics from my game, no damage that I can see. I hand tightened the star posts I added. There was no visible damage before I put the posts on, just did it for precaution. It was one of the first games off the line I believe
MVIMG_20190826_204720 (resized).jpgMVIMG_20190826_204736 (resized).jpgMVIMG_20190826_204757 (resized).jpgMVIMG_20190826_204810 (resized).jpgIMG_20190826_205025 (resized).jpg

#956 87 days ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Has anybody moved a post after the “washer fix”? Won’t there just be a washer sized ring instead of a post sized ring? Even if it prevents the ripplechip(tm) somehow, this is not a solution for adjustable posts.

Yes. For my thin posts that had rippled, the larger starpost with a same size rubber washer pushed the whole area down. I do not have new clear pooling around the new washer. I cannot vouch for other people’s playfields.

I also had the problem start on most posts outside of the slings. Even those that already had metal washers on them.

#957 87 days ago
Quoted from chad:

Labor only, or including parts.

Labor and "shop supplies" including staples, generic fasteners, cable ties, hook-up wire if needed. Parts I break are on me. Customer supplies the playfield.

#958 87 days ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Also people that are saying bring back dp have no idea as there are/were plenty of issues with them as well.

Well, I said it. And I am very well versed on the problems with DP....and I would still prefer it over this soupy clear...

#959 87 days ago
Quoted from chad:

Labor only, or including parts.

What parts are needed?

#960 87 days ago

From a purely engineering standpoint and understanding fasteners and clamping...

It seems to me that one solution would be to mount the posts through the playfield (underside electronics permitting). This would be the most economical solution as it would remove the torque from the top of the playfield to the bottom of the playfield during tightening, not to mention provide a more stable post over time. The neoprene washers address this issue in that the top of the washer absorbs the majority of the clamping torque as opposed to the top of the playfield. A nylon washer would probably be a better option imo.

I’m not defending sub standard processes and or coatings, just trying to find an intermediate solution to what seems to be a lot of bad playfields.

Just thinking out loud.

#961 87 days ago
Quoted from Lermods:

So here are a few pics from my game, no damage that I can see. I hand tightened the star posts I added. There was no visible damage before I put the posts on, just did it for precaution. It was one of the first games off the line I believe
]

Could you please share the rubberized washer part number that you used under the large star posts in the Wonka Sling? Several of us are interested. My NIB POTC came with these from the original buyer in a "kit" from Magical Productions, but they have not responded to email requests for more information. It would be greatly appreciated. : )
Murphy Peoples

#962 87 days ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

Could you please share the rubberized washer part number that you used under the large star posts in the Wonka Sling? Several of us are interested. My NIB POTC came with these from the original buyer in a "kit" from Magical Productions, but they have not responded to email requests for more information. It would be greatly appreciated. : )
Murphy Peoples

I bought them at Lowe's, home Depot has them too. Search for neoprene washers.

-1
#963 87 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

Talked with someone today with JJP and I have been assured that JJP is looking into this issue more serious and will be making an announcement coming soon. He did not want to tell me what it was as they are addressing some of these concerns, but he did assured me that this was being looked at very close at JJP. I was not looking for an answer, bit I did let him know my concerns and to please pass my concerns and request up the line to upper management.
My understanding is that the distributors will probably be among the first to know what JJP is going to do for those affected and it will get passed on down the line from the distributors.
I think this could be the reason why maybe there is a delay on the announcement on the CE details.
Well....here to a good response from JJP. Again, I be shocked if they did not find a way to make this right and help those that have been dealing with this issue on their own machines.

It sounds like you talked to a very low-ranking employee who told you what you wanted to hear, and you are calling it a success and now think you have influence in this matter all the way up to "upper management." That is kind of adorable, but you sound a little delusional, or maybe you are just a big fan of wishful thinking

JJP (or Stern) could put out a Tweet or FB post in under 30 seconds saying "we are looking into reports of issues and will have an announcement soon." The explanation you gave makes zero sense re: distributors and delays. JJP (and Stern) have known about this issue for a long time now and just need to say something, anything really.

#964 87 days ago

A low-level employee in Sector 7-G?

#965 87 days ago
Quoted from Lounge:

From a purely engineering standpoint and understanding fasteners and clamping...
It seems to me that one solution would be to mount the posts through the playfield (underside electronics permitting). This would be the most economical solution as it would remove the torque from the top of the playfield to the bottom of the playfield during tightening, not to mention provide a more stable post over time. The neoprene washers address this issue in that the top of the washer absorbs the majority of the clamping torque as opposed to the top of the playfield. A nylon washer would probably be a better option imo.
I’m not defending sub standard processes and or coatings, just trying to find an intermediate solution to what seems to be a lot of bad playfields.
Just thinking out loud.

Wouldn"t it be better to use a playfield protector with small holes at factory mounting. Everything will be standing even on the crapco clear, then use some kind of wax, helping mimicing normal ball movement.

11
#966 87 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

Wouldn"t it be better to use a playfield protector with small holes at factory mounting. Everything will be standing even on the crapco clear, then use some kind of wax, helping mimicing normal ball movement.

Playfield protectors suck. No thanks.

#967 87 days ago

thedarkknight77 asked Charlie about Spooky playfields over in the Alice Cooper club thread. This was Charlie's response:

"I happen to feel our playfields are the absolute best in the industry, and yes... we too like everyone else, had an issue. It only takes 1 minor change in any of the chemicals or process involved to cause a problem... sometimes the parts / chemicals we've used for years change and we don't even know until it's too late. Pulling the art back a bit was only part of making sure it never happened again. Far more to it, and unless you've made a thousand of these things you'll never know how hard it all actually is. The learning process NEVER stops when you are dealing with a natural product like wood being exposed to unnatural chemicals and situations.

We did all we could to correct the situation, make everyone happy, and made sure we took every precaution necessary regardless of cost to keep it on the good side going forward. I believe that shows on ACNC and the last multiple batches of TnA (which is perhaps the fastest most violent pinball game ever made). No pressure when we KNOW everyone is watching all of this like a hawk now and will keep doing so huh???!

There is a reason our playfield process is uniquely our own, local, and will stay that way."

#968 87 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

A low-level employee in Sector 7-G?

HomerChipping (resized).jpg
#969 87 days ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

Only time will tell for sure. It's too bad we can seemingly spend more time here discussing issues with the games rather than actually playing them.
Rob

I’m actually playing Wonka everyday with the wife and son!
I put petg washers under Star post and went back to having fun.

#970 87 days ago
Quoted from Jackalwere:

thedarkknight77 asked Charlie about Spooky playfields over in the Alice Cooper club thread. This was Charlie's response:
"I happen to feel our playfields are the absolute best in the industry, and yes... we too like everyone else, had an issue. It only takes 1 minor change in any of the chemicals or process involved to cause a problem... sometimes the parts / chemicals we've used for years change and we don't even know until it's too late. Pulling the art back a bit was only part of making sure it never happened again. Far more to it, and unless you've made a thousand of these things you'll never know how hard it all actually is. The learning process NEVER stops when you are dealing with a natural product like wood being exposed to unnatural chemicals and situations.
We did all we could to correct the situation, make everyone happy, and made sure we took every precaution necessary regardless of cost to keep it on the good side going forward. I believe that shows on ACNC and the last multiple batches of TnA (which is perhaps the fastest most violent pinball game ever made). No pressure when we KNOW everyone is watching all of this like a hawk now and will keep doing so huh???!
There is a reason our playfield process is uniquely our own, local, and will stay that way."

I thought Bader was making Spooky playfields, not Spooky. Is Spooky doing these in-house?

19
#971 87 days ago

It's been a week, 3 phone calls (voice mail left) and NO ONE from JJP has called me back to discuss the playfield issue!!!

I am will NOT be buying anything from JJP ever!!! Your customer service is horrible!!!

11
#972 87 days ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

It's been a week, 3 phone calls (voice mail left) and NO ONE from JJP has called me back to discuss the playfield issue!!!
I am will NOT be buying anything from JJP ever!!! Your customer service is horrible!!!

That is my feelings as well.

#973 87 days ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

It's been a week, 3 phone calls (voice mail left) and NO ONE from JJP has called me back to discuss the playfield issue!!!
I am will NOT be buying anything from JJP ever!!! Your customer service is horrible!!!

Sad to say, but this is typical from them. Experienced the same thing. They don’t want to talk to anyone (apparently unless your name is Richie), especially if you have a playfield issue. It is amazing to me that when Kaneda asked Jack directly about all the PF issues, all he said is, “I’m in Europe, service is spotty and won’t be back till September 8th”. That was his answer when asked about PF issues. Funny, it was good enough service to give that answer, but not answer the question. Kaneda said his answer was not acceptable.

Meanwhile Stern’s Zach Sharpe gave their answer that there is no widespread PF issues at Stern like other manufacture. They will back up the customer. That has been my experience with them, they take care of their customer issues.

#974 87 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Sad to say, but this is typical from them. Experienced the same thing. They don’t want to talk to anyone (apparently unless your name is Richie), especially if you have a playfield issue. It is amazing to me that when Kaneda asked Jack directly about all the PF issues, all he said is, “I’m in Europe, service is spotty and won’t be back till September 8th”. That was his answer when asked about PF issues. Funny, it was good enough service to give that answer, but not answer the question. Kaneda said his answer was not acceptable.
Meanwhile Stern’s Zach Sharpe gave their answer that there is no widespread PF issues at Stern like other manufacture. They will back up the customer. That has been my experience with them, they take care of their customer issues.

Agree, I have had a much better experience with Stern. JJP has never EVER returned any of my calls.

#975 87 days ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

What parts are needed?

I guess I was thinking any playfield swap.

-7
#976 87 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Sad to say, but this is typical from them. Experienced the same thing. They don’t want to talk to anyone (apparently unless your name is Richie), especially if you have a playfield issue. It is amazing to me that when Kaneda asked Jack directly about all the PF issues, all he said is, “I’m in Europe, service is spotty and won’t be back till September 8th”. That was his answer when asked about PF issues. Funny, it was good enough service to give that answer, but not answer the question. Kaneda said his answer was not acceptable.
Meanwhile Stern’s Zach Sharpe gave their answer that there is no widespread PF issues at Stern like other manufacture. They will back up the customer. That has been my experience with them, they take care of their customer issues.

That's simply not true. I've never had an issue getting ahold of JJP support. Ever. Seriously, what is your issue with this company and why do you come here and constantly bash them??? I mean seriously, enough is enough...

Jeff

#977 87 days ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

It's been a week, 3 phone calls (voice mail left) and NO ONE from JJP has called me back to discuss the playfield issue!!!
I am will NOT be buying anything from JJP ever!!! Your customer service is horrible!!!

Did you start a service ticket?

#978 87 days ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

That's simply not true. I've never had an issue getting ahold of JJP support. Ever. Seriously, what is your issue with this company and why do you come here and constantly bash them??? I mean seriously, enough is enough...
Jeff

Telling the truth of experience is not bashing. Just agreeing with another person that had same issue of trying to contact JJP. If you’ve had another experience with JJP, that’s fine to report it, but stop personally attacking me. You’re violating forum rules, I’ve been told.

#979 87 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Telling the truth of experience is not bashing. I simply added my experience to the other person that said they could not get in touch with JJP. If you have a different experience, fine.

-6
#980 87 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Telling the truth of experience is not bashing. Just agreeing with another person that had same issue of trying to contact JJP. If you’ve had another experience with JJP, that’s fine to report it, but stop personally attacking me. You’re violating forum rules, I’ve been told.

I'm not attacking you at all, that's ridiculous. I'm merely continuing to point out that your constant bashing of JJP is beyond old. To the point of trolling...

Funny, I've not been notified of this rules violation you speak of. If someone contacts me and says I'm doing something wrong and I need to stop then I'll gladly listen, but until that time...

Jeff

#981 86 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You don't want the stand-off... because it will weaken the post's ability to resist lateral movement. Then you'll just get stuff bending and enlongating holes..

Hey Flynn,

Don't disagree with your comment, but it looks like the skinny post is used in this location with a kicker. Couldn't JPP secure with one of these posts (or at least smaller than the big plastic post) then the big plastic post is just becomes a decoration, not touching or barely touching the PF?

Just curious. No doubt the real fix is a PF with a good clear coat. But if that doesn't happen - just tossing out food for thought.

pasted_image (resized).png
#982 86 days ago
Quoted from underlord:

Did you start a service ticket?

I have never been able to speak to anyone at their company.

#983 86 days ago
Quoted from tpir:

It sounds like you talked to a very low-ranking employee who told you what you wanted to hear, and you are calling it a success and now think you have influence in this matter all the way up to "upper management." That is kind of adorable, but you sound a little delusional, or maybe you are just a big fan of wishful thinking
JJP (or Stern) could put out a Tweet or FB post in under 30 seconds saying "we are looking into reports of issues and will have an announcement soon." The explanation you gave makes zero sense re: distributors and delays. JJP (and Stern) have known about this issue for a long time now and just need to say something, anything really.

Sounds better then Stern's response...

download (1) (resized).jpg

#984 86 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Sounds better then Stern's response...
[quoted image]

Or when a badly implemented mechanical assembly completely ruins a game mode and is supposed to be fixed - release a software fix that disables the functionality and call it "as designed" regardless of what the designer said. JJP has problems, but Stern is not blameless when the problem becomes too costly to fix in the field (in GoT Prem/LE case, it was literally every machine in the field affected - thousands).

#985 86 days ago

I've never had a problem getting in touch with JJP....maybe its your approach?

#986 86 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Yeah, the part where he starts yelling &amp; swearing, pretty cringe-inducing. "Next week I could die in a fiery crash down the highway, and I'm not worried about, ooh, my brake pads have a little bit of residue and cracking, no!" A better cargument would be, what if the paint was flaking off around the door handles and a car salesmen yelled at you on a podcast to just keep buying cars, don't worry about it.
At one point the guest says "no else cares about that little ding but you." Here's the thing: I pay for my games, so my opinion is the one that matters. You know who else cares? Every guy I might ever sell it to.

Oooh good, I am just glad you guys aren't pissed off at me! My opinion on the clear coats was very general though, as I have no clue what Mirco or any other outside vendor uses for clear coats. My opinion on the coatings are 100% based on the issues everyone here is experiencing. It IS a product failure! No doubts about it. Whoever is mixing these clears is VERY inconsistent with the batches (Or they are using just junk products). I just hope that Stern and JJP spend some much needed resources and do the clear coats in house. That way they can control what clears they want to use, and they can test them as much or as little as they want before just slapping them on play-fields. Just like they would do with Mechs... I assume (like we all do) testing is done to exhaustion before customers receive their games.

Hope I helped shed a little light on the industry... good luck out there guys. Sorry again this is happening to you. It sucks!

Ian
Poor Man's Pinball Podcast

15
#987 86 days ago
Quoted from tpir:

It sounds like you talked to a very low-ranking employee who told you what you wanted to hear, and you are calling it a success and now think you have influence in this matter all the way up to "upper management." That is kind of adorable, but you sound a little delusional, or maybe you are just a big fan of wishful thinking
JJP (or Stern) could put out a Tweet or FB post in under 30 seconds saying "we are looking into reports of issues and will have an announcement soon." The explanation you gave makes zero sense re: distributors and delays. JJP (and Stern) have known about this issue for a long time now and just need to say something, anything really.

Do not get me wrong...I was just reaching out and I just dont want to say the name.

Bottom line...It does not matter....Action speaks more than talk.

Simply put....JJP and any other manufacturer needs to speak up about this and make it right AND they need to make sure those effected are taken care of and trust me I know of a few personally and they better be taken care of. They can refund the money paid out for those playfields, offer populated playfield, fair discounts ...anything but make it fair and make it at NO cost to the customer.

Until then....

Richie Wrench is out on CE #12.....I dont care if that door comes powder coated...I AM OUT.

And as of today....I AM STILL OUT.

You see...That is my action....I am taking a stand for myself and those around me.

Dont believe me???

Call or text Joe at 3 AM tonight...He will tell you.

#988 86 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

I thought Bader was making Spooky playfields, not Spooky. Is Spooky doing these in-house?

I have first hand knowledge that they are indeed doing them in house... and they use some pretty serious stuff. Charlie spends some good money on their clear coat.

#989 86 days ago
Quoted from newpinbin:

I have never been able to speak to anyone at their company.

You create a service ticket on JJP website.

#990 86 days ago

Talking about yourself in 3rd person is odd...that’s what Wickerman thinks

#991 86 days ago
Quoted from Captain-Flint:

I have first hand knowledge that they are indeed doing them in house... and they use some pretty serious stuff. Charlie spends some good money on their clear coat.

Well if they managed to do that transition, good on them! They're the first one to do it successfully. CGC was already in playfields so that doesn't count.

I wonder why JJP doesn't hire a playfield/clearcoat guru to bring that in-house? The transition will take a bit, but it's way better than relying on Mirco not telling them what he's doing specifically nor when he's changing things up on the fly.

#992 86 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Well if they managed to do that transition, good on them! They're the first one to do it successfully. CGC was already in playfields so that doesn't count.
I wonder why JJP doesn't hire a playfield/clearcoat guru to bring that in-house? The transition will take a bit, but it's way better than relying on Mirco not telling them what he's doing specifically nor when he's changing things up on the fly.

Stern also does many of their play fields in house. They use multiple supply sources on many parts...that way if a factory gets flooded, you are not out of business along with them. Does anyone know for sure the ones having issues are all from one source?

#993 86 days ago
Quoted from tpir:

It sounds like you talked to a very low-ranking employee who told you what you wanted to hear, and you are calling it a success and now think you have influence in this matter all the way up to "upper management." That is kind of adorable, but you sound a little delusional, or maybe you are just a big fan of wishful thinking
JJP (or Stern) could put out a Tweet or FB post in under 30 seconds saying "we are looking into reports of issues and will have an announcement soon." The explanation you gave makes zero sense re: distributors and delays. JJP (and Stern) have known about this issue for a long time now and just need to say something, anything really.

I don’t know why you are having a go a Richie. At least he is making a stand over this issue and he is actually contacting JJP to address his concerns and gone public on podcasts. Rather than just sitting back and making snide comments on pinside.

What have you done to try and fight this issue?

#994 86 days ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

Hey Flynn,
Don't disagree with your comment, but it looks like the skinny post is used in this location with a kicker. Couldn't JPP secure with one of these posts (or at least smaller than the big plastic post) then the big plastic post is just becomes a decoration, not touching or barely touching the PF?

Different posts are used for different reasons depending on the application. Is it needed? I don't know...but the support is different and you can't have posts that deflect easily.

#995 86 days ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Stern also does many of their play fields in house. They use multiple supply sources on many parts...that way if a factory gets flooded, you are not out of business along with them. Does anyone know for sure the ones having issues are all from one source?

Stern's transition to in-house playfields wasn't so smooth. Pretty sure we're still seeing the effects of their experimentation with IM/Beatles/JP playfields.

#996 86 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Stern's transition to in-house playfields wasn't so smooth. Pretty sure we're still seeing the effects of their experimentation with IM/Beatles/JP playfields.

and batman 66's in the last 9 months

#999 86 days ago
Quoted from Dr-pin:

Wouldn"t it be better to use a playfield protector with small holes at factory mounting. Everything will be standing even on the crapco clear, then use some kind of wax, helping mimicing normal ball movement.

Not sure multiple layers over multiple layers is the answer here. Then again, at this point, I don’t think there would be any harm in trying anything. The crux of the issue is putting torque on a soft playfield.

#1000 86 days ago

There ....I am the 1000th post on this topic.....How special is that???

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