(Topic ID: 249691)

Wonka LE Sling Post Chipping in one month!!


By rs812

87 days ago



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#801 80 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Said the captain of the Titanic...

Looks like your beloved Stern is having their share of issues.I love those metal washers a thing of beauty they are!

#802 80 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

It's not just under the sling posts.
I went with fairly large mylar rings instead of the ugly washer route. Looks great and no more problems so far on a route jjPotC.

Where did you get the mylar rings at?

#803 80 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

I actually thought this was funny. Lol

Show us the JJP games!

#804 80 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Where did you get the mylar rings at?

Made them. People were asking for them, so I put sets with big and small rings to do the slings in the PinMonk store here on pinside.

#805 80 days ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Looks like your beloved Stern is having their share of issues.I love those metal washers a thing of beauty they are!

Just saw this in a Stern JP thread...wow After just a few days of ownership.

c77bc7e009b3de3749c30ac0e65ce43d4cab8acb (resized).jpeg

#806 80 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Made them. People were asking for them, so I put sets with big and small rings to do the slings in the PinMonk store here on pinside.

Do you recommend those under the small posts that are throughout the playfield too or would a washer work better under those? Im talking like an outlane post or the little posts that are in front of the ramps etc. like a post in the pic that Panzerfreak posted above me.

#807 80 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Just saw this in a Stern JP thread...wow After just a few days of ownership.
[quoted image]

Real downer.

I was totally excited about JP. First pin that has had my attention since Maiden.

It's already a spectacular game!

But, no way can I buy one for the foreseeable future.

#808 80 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Do you recommend those under the small posts that are throughout the playfield too or would a washer work better under those? Im talking like an outlane post or the little posts that are in front of the ramps etc.

This is 100% my personal opinion and I have no studies to cite, but I think using washers just pushes out the pressure point on the playfield to the hard edge of the washer and it's still susceptible to chipping at the new edge. I went with mylar because the pressure point remains the same, but there's now a clear buffer zone well past the edge of the star post or post that is protecting that edge. So I'm team mylar all the way.

Honestly, I have no idea why JJP AND Stern aren't using mylar around all the points the posts contact the playfields. At the very least it would substantially cut down on the chipping, if not eliminate it. I guess it would slow down the line, though...

#809 80 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Just saw this in a Stern JP thread...wow After just a few days of ownership.
[quoted image]

Manufacturers have finally found the bottom. I would lose my shit if I found that after years, never mind days. Nib? Not even if it’s Jaws, Mad Max or BTTF.

#810 80 days ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Just saw this in a Stern JP thread...wow After just a few days of ownership.
[quoted image]

Wow, ugly. But what's with that divot at the top of the chip? It looks like the tip of a screwdriver...

#811 80 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

This is 100% my personal opinion and I have no studies to cite, but I think using washers just pushes out the pressure point on the playfield to the hard edge of the washer and it's still susceptible to chipping at the new edge. I went with mylar because the pressure point remains the same, but there's now a clear buffer zone well past the edge of the star post or post that is protecting that edge. So I'm team mylar all the way.
Honestly, I have no idea why JJP AND Stern aren't using mylar around all the points the posts contact the playfields. At the very least it would substantially cut down on the chipping, if not eliminate it. I guess it would slow down the line, though...

I would probably think you are correct. If you have a chip though that would need to be filled in with something to level it out. Maybe some clear fingernail polish or an automotive clear touch up. Not sure if they make such a thing but i think that they do. Super glue perhaps?

#812 80 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Wow, ugly. But what's with that divot at the top of the chip? It looks like the tip of a screwdriver...

Flipper alignment hole

#813 80 days ago
Quoted from Returner:

Flipper alignment hole

Wow, it doesn't look like a hole, it looks like a divot. Is that really where they put the flipper alignment hole and made it a divot?

#814 80 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I would probably think you are correct. If you have a chip though that would need to be filled in with something to level it out. Maybe some clear fingernail polish or an automotive clear touch up. Not sure if they make such a thing but i think that they do. Super glue perhaps?

Yeah, if you already have a chip and can find the piece that chipped out, superglue it back first then mylar.

#815 80 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

I'm confused. Why wasn't this already in Dialed In? This is the motherboard they transitioned to on Hobbit, well before Dialed In. How do I know? Because I replaced a MSIH61M-P31/W8 in a WoZ with this exact motherboard to get past the 2 year old Linux kernel chipset lockup problem JJP hadn't fixed. I chose it specifically because it was in Hobbit and that's the direction JJP was going.

Sorry, I may have misunderstood your question. All Dialed In games are shipping with that motherboard. They only changed the CPU from a Celeron to a Pentium and added an additional 4GB of memory mid production. I don't believe the MB ever changed. Early owners with Celeron chips are replacing them with 4th gen pentium chips i3-4xxx, i5-4xxx or i7-4xxx. I hope that clears it up. If not, there's a ton of info on this on the Dialed In owners thread.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dialed-in-owners-and-fans-club

I'm actually surprised to hear you say they've already done the exact same thing on The Hobbit. What complete assholes. So this is CLEARLY part of their business model, test with early production machines and change out parts mid production. Wow, I will never be an early buyer of a JJP game again. Shocking.

#816 80 days ago

I hope you guys don't mind me chiming in on the Wonka thread, but since it relates to chipping around posts on a JJP game I thought this might be interesting. I just brought home a NIB JJP Pirates LE this past Friday. Born on date is 2/22/2019. The collector I bought it from never took it out of the box. Before I played game one.... I changed out the 6 lower slingshot posts to Marco Star Posts with their rubberized washers under each post. Before and after Pics below. As our family build games on it, I'll stay in touch to let you know if this was "The Fix" or not. Fingers crossed! We have much love for the Wonka too! Awesome game. - Murphy

IMG_3781 (resized).JPGIMG_3783 (resized).JPG
#817 80 days ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

I hope you guys don't mind me chiming in on the Wonka thread, but since it relates to chipping around posts on a JJP game I thought this might be interesting. I just brought home a NIB JJP Pirates LE this past Friday. Born on date is 2/22/2019. The collector I bought it from never took it out of the box. Before I played game one.... I changed out the 6 lower slingshot posts to Marco Star Posts with their rubberized washers under each post. Before and after Pics below. As our family build games on it, I'll stay in touch to let you know if this was "The Fix" or not. Fingers crossed! We have much love for the Wonka too! Awesome game. - Murphy[quoted image][quoted image]

Smart move. Hoping this kind of preparedness isn’t the new normal. ( I hate that term btw!)

#818 80 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

The higher the defect rate, the less likely they will take care of customers. 5 out of 1,000? Fully populated replacement playfield with shipping covered both ways. 500 out of 1,000? Maybe we'll sell you a blank playfield at cost plus shipping. Replacing hundreds of playfields for free would put them out of business. Not doing it might eventually have the same effect, though.

I agree with this. I bet JJP can’t fund all of the replacement playfields, so they are hoping this just blows over. Of course, it’s going to be devastating to their business either way. Their silence will have a long lasting effect on their reputation, with declining sales. Maybe that’s the lesser of two evils, or their only choice.

Cleargate could be the end of JJP. I’d put money on it. Shame, I played a POTC CE and it was awesome, dare I say beyond any W/B that I’ve played. Just a shame...

#819 80 days ago

They could take a slightly different stance such as the bubbling at the slings with fix kit and no other damage you have option of discounted pf.

If you have sling chipping(not bubbling) actual chipping and chipping elsewhere too then you fall into different category where free PF is warranted.

I have no doubt if these neoprene washers got to us sooner our slings never would have chipped.

#820 80 days ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I have no doubt if these neoprene washers got to us sooner our slings never would have chipped.

I completely agree with this. As a lifelong automotive painter using 2PAC, I see the clearcoat "Doughnuts" that accrue around the posts after the posts have been tightened down as being the culprit. There is NO chipping in the middle of the play fields... just around the posts. The doughnut is what is chipping off the PF and taking the paint from underneath as well. Neoprene washer over the doughnut will likely solve the issue.

#821 80 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I had a space for a new game.
Instead of a JP, I am going to pick up an older Stern with a rock solid SAM board set, finished code and a decent playfield

If you haven't owned TRON, I highly recommend trying it. Just sold one I owned for 6 years...over 3,000 plays and it still looked like new.

14
#822 80 days ago

Doing a podcast with a a.nice man name Kaneda to talk about my collection and CE's. Not Live but we are doing it tonight and he will broadcast it in a couple days I think....Never done a podcast before....Does it hurt?

Do I still seem Calm?...lol

#823 80 days ago
Quoted from PinBuck:

Sorry, I may have misunderstood your question. All Dialed In games are shipping with that motherboard. They only changed the CPU from a Celeron to a Pentium and added an additional 4GB of memory mid production. I don't believe the MB ever changed. Early owners with Celeron chips are replacing them with 4th gen pentium chips i3-4xxx, i5-4xxx or i7-4xxx. I hope that clears it up. If not, there's a ton of info on this on the Dialed In owners thread.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dialed-in-owners-and-fans-club
I'm actually surprised to hear you say they've already done the exact same thing on The Hobbit. What complete assholes. So this is CLEARLY part of their business model, test with early production machines and change out parts mid production. Wow, I will never be an early buyer of a JJP game again. Shocking.

No, I did it on WoZ, not Hobbit.

I replaced the MSIH61M-P31/W8 original WoZ board with the MSI motherboard Hobbit was using and an I3-4170 because the Intel H81 chipset drivers for the newer linux kernel got past lockup problems with the Intel H61 on the WoZ MSIH61M-P31/W8 motherboards. JJP had gone almost 2 years with a easily repeatable (happened every 24 hours, without fail) lockup bug that was very operator-unfriendly. They even pretended not to know what the problem was or that there WAS a known problem with some operators I talked to. So I got sick of it and documented how to FIX it by changing to a MB with the H81 chipset that was in Hobbit. Literally a week or so after I posted the how-to, the original bug was fixed. Points to a lack of urgency fixing the issue.

#824 80 days ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

I completely agree with this. As a lifelong automotive painter using 2PAC, I see the clearcoat "Doughnuts" that accrue around the posts after the posts have been tightened down as being the culprit. There is NO chipping in the middle of the play fields... just around the posts. The doughnut is what is chipping off the PF and taking the paint from underneath as well. Neoprene washer over the doughnut will likely solve the issue.

Not true. We got chipping at the forks week one. No downward post pressure there.

#825 80 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Not true. We got chipping at the forks week one. No downward post pressure there.

I'll take a look at mine this week and check this out. I don't think it's the downward pressure from the posts being screwed it per se. I think it's where the clearcoat collects around the cut out openings in the PF. Downward torque would exacerbate the problem certainly, but the curing of these "new environmentally friendly" clearcoats are questionable. This is all conjecture from an old painter. I like your idea PinMonk of laying down Mylar in these areas, and will be doing this very soon. : ) - Murph

#826 80 days ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

I'll take a look at mine this week and check this out. I don't think it's the downward pressure from the posts being screwed it per se. I think it's where the clearcoat collects around the cut out openings in the PF.

Nope. It's definitely when a post is put in from above. No post, no visibile pooling on dozens of machines I've seen from JJP and Stern with the issue.

#827 80 days ago

So if you remove the posts, assuming the clearcoat is still softish and curing, will the doughnuts then flatten down over a bit of time?

11
#828 80 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

Doing a podcast with a a.nice man name Kaneda to talk about my collection and CE's. Not Live but we are doing it tonight and he will broadcast it in a couple days I think....Never done a podcast before....Does it hurt?
Do I still seem Calm?...lol

Okay everyone -- I just did my first podcast -- How cool was that - I think it will go up later this week. Kaneda was very nice and did not make me feel uncomfortable at all - We talked about about Pinball and my collection the the LE and CE worlds and of course we talked about the current issues with chipping of the playfields and my stand to opt out on my CE #12 Willy game - So it was fun. Hope it helps and lets see what happens. I think your guys and gals will like it and here is to a hopeful solution to this issue and more important ---- take care of those that have been effected by this.

I want to say "Thanks to all" and those supporting my decision and even to those that think I am nuts and taking this over the top - I nice to have a place where we can express our views. That is important as well.

#829 80 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Honestly, I have no idea why JJP AND Stern aren't using mylar around all the points the posts contact the playfields. At the very least it would substantially cut down on the chipping, if not eliminate it. I guess it would slow down the line, though...

Mylar tends to separate from it’s glued contact when it has uneven pressure on it. Plus it can twist and be wrinkled itself... especially if screw holes are not trimmed back to avoid contacting the threads. Otherwise, removing screws tends to lift the Mylar.

#830 80 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

Okay everyone -- I just did my first podcast -- How cool was that - I think it will go up later this week. Kaneda was very nice and did not make me feel uncomfortable at all - We talked about about Pinball and my collection the the LE and CE worlds and of course we talked about the current issues with chipping of the playfields and my stand to opt out on my CE #12 Willy game - So it was fun. Hope it helps and lets see what happens. I think your guys and gals will like it and here is to a hopeful solution to this issue and more important ---- take care of those that have been effected by this.
I want to say "Thanks to all" and those supporting my decision and even to those that think I am nuts and taking this over the top - I nice to have a place where we can express our views. That is important as well.

Glad you had fun doing it. I look forward to seeing it!

I do occasional live-streams and interviews also from time to time. Never (yet) in the pinball/arcade space. Mostly in the Retro gaming/developer space.

If you’re ever up for another. I’d love to get your story on how you got into collecting and built up to what you have now.

Also thanks for speaking up!

#831 80 days ago
Quoted from dashv:

Glad you had fun doing it. I look forward to seeing it!
I do occasional live-streams and interviews also from time to time. Never (yet) in the pinball/arcade space. Mostly in the Retro gaming/developer space.
If you’re ever up for another. I’d love to get your story on how you got into collecting and built up to what you have now.
Also thanks for speaking up!

Sure -- That was fun - Anytime -- Just reach out to me from here or send me an email - and we can set that up

folksnrml@aol.com

Thanks

#832 80 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

Okay everyone -- I just did my first podcast -- How cool was that - I think it will go up later this week. Kaneda was very nice and did not make me feel uncomfortable at all - We talked about about Pinball and my collection the the LE and CE worlds and of course we talked about the current issues with chipping of the playfields and my stand to opt out on my CE #12 Willy game - So it was fun. Hope it helps and lets see what happens. I think your guys and gals will like it and here is to a hopeful solution to this issue and more important ---- take care of those that have been effected by this.
I want to say "Thanks to all" and those supporting my decision and even to those that think I am nuts and taking this over the top - I nice to have a place where we can express our views. That is important as well.

I'm sorry, I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but I don't get it. You think making a podcast about opting out of a CE is going to get JJP to reverse course and give free playfield replacements to everyone affected?

I completely understand bailing on any NIB pin given the events of the past few weeks. I definitely don't see how cancelling a preorder on an expensive toy is something that needs to be "supported" or might be "over the top." Cancelling is a no-brainer here IMO until JJP at least makes a statement. (Sadly cancelling my JP2 premium first thing tomorrow morning )

-1
#833 80 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

Okay everyone -- I just did my first podcast -- How cool was that - I think it will go up later this week. Kaneda was very nice and did not make me feel uncomfortable at all - We talked about about Pinball and my collection the the LE and CE worlds and of course we talked about the current issues with chipping of the playfields and my stand to opt out on my CE #12 Willy game - So it was fun. Hope it helps and lets see what happens. I think your guys and gals will like it and here is to a hopeful solution to this issue and more important ---- take care of those that have been effected by this.
I want to say "Thanks to all" and those supporting my decision and even to those that think I am nuts and taking this over the top - I nice to have a place where we can express our views. That is important as well.

Good job. Kaneda is respectful to his guests. Glad it was a good experience.

#834 80 days ago
Quoted from BOBCADE:

I wouldn't be surprised if less like $300 per

whatever dude, friend just became a distributor for them, no need to lie about it. just going by what he told me.

#835 80 days ago
Quoted from tpir:

I'm sorry, I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but I don't get it. You think making a podcast about opting out of a CE is going to get JJP to reverse course and give free playfield replacements to everyone affected?
I completely understand bailing on any NIB pin given the events of the past few weeks. I definitely don't see how cancelling a preorder on an expensive toy is something that needs to be "supported" or might be "over the top." Cancelling is a no-brainer here IMO until JJP at least makes a statement. (Sadly cancelling my JP2 premium first thing tomorrow morning )

No the prodcast was not not mainly that - It was about my collection and how we got to where we are today on CE games and prices going up to 12.5K on games and thoughts

Yes - we did go over my stand and yes - I stick to my decision - Do I thing that JJP will make changes totally on what I did - NO ....But I am hoping that by them knowing that I step away and others are also stepping away that they will take this issue serious and addressed the issue more closely

That is it and if not then I know where they stand as a company AND I have the power (as we all do) to say NO -- Not interested anymore and out of my preorder and not going to take the chance and also to stand up for others.

#836 79 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Mylar tends to separate from it’s glued contact when it has uneven pressure on it. Plus it can twist and be wrinkled itself... especially if screw holes are not trimmed back to avoid contacting the threads. Otherwise, removing screws tends to lift the Mylar.

Of course the inner circle of the mylar would be larger than the hole where the screw goes. These are the very basics.

#837 79 days ago

I bought my Mirco White Water playfield in April 2018 and began to populate it in July. I wasn't aware of the playfield chipping and pooling issues back then, and I'm pretty sure I tightened my posts down probably more than I should have. It's now a year later and the playfield still looks good, no pooling or chipping.

I received my Creature playfield in June 2019 and I'll be populating it in a couple of weeks. I haven't mounted much yet except the support rails. I like them to be sturdy, and I swear I barely tightened the screw and it sank into the playfield, creating a small crater around the screw. I'm really nervous about this now and I think I'll go with the mylar under the posts treatment as a preventive measure. I'd have to take the apron off of White Water to see if the rail screws behaved the same and I just didn't notice at the time.

Mirco says their ceramic clearcoat is "same as we use on JJP/Dutchpinball/Heighway games". I also saw this in another thread:

"The ceramic clearcoat is filled with hard invisible ceramic particles which make the playfield more scratch resistant than the normal clearcoat. In addition to that the surface is more brilliant and smoother than on the normal version. The ceramic looks more like a mirror than the regular one and is more scratch resistant than the normal version. Dimpling will apply on both playfields as that is caused by the wood and not by the clearcoat. All machines I shop and have in my collection have the ceramic version as the ball rolls smoother on these...It is as clear as the regular coat, you will not notice the nano particles."

I did decide to go with a NIB - I ordered an Alice Cooper from Spooky, they seem to have things figured out. Right now I'm steering clear of JJP and Stern, though I've had no issues with Munsters.

#838 79 days ago
Quoted from Jackalwere:

Mirco says their ceramic clearcoat is "same as we use on JJP/Dutchpinball/Heighway games".

This is the first place I've seen that JJP is paying for Mirco's most expensive ceramic playfields. Makes it an extra hard kick to the nuts that they're basically trash now with whatever Mirco changed to make them soft and the ink not adhere...

#839 79 days ago

this crazy that in this day these companies are having issues, I got a Batman 66 late last year and returned it back to the distributor after only 6 games when I noticed very similar lifting around various posts.

Maybe Stern and JJP need to machine a small step in the top of the playfield for a washer to sit in so the post sits a fraction above the playfield surface to get around this bubbling as well as look at there clear mixture as something drastic has changed of late. Once the washer is tightened down it should not affect the actual playfield, but putting a washer on the playfield surface is just a bandaid fix and widens the problem.

I think these companies are going for a eco friendly water based clear which is quicker and cheaper to apply compared to a urethane clear coat. Here are some comments from the auto industry - on acrylic versus urethane

https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/plastics-rubber/urethane-acrylic-automotive/
and this one talks of arcylic clears chipping
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/acrylic-vs-urethane/

then when you read into it the acrylic clears need a suitable base to bite in so a printed playfield artwork may have reactions to an acrylic clear.

#840 79 days ago

Been following this for a long time and I also did not order Wonka. First JJP I did not order at all. Does not make a dent in the sales but it is the only thing I can do to make it clear that I am not accepting the bad quality and bad after sales. This is not in the spirit of JJP and it is sad to see that it eventually always boils down to money no mattter what the initial intentions of a company were.

But what puzzles me is this: times change, environmental laws change, everyting changes. But why do the playfields not change? I can think of several ways to make playfields completely differently than the "wood with ink on it" that the manufacturers keep clinging onto that would hold up much better than the current playfields. They would need no protectors, no cliffy's no nothing.

It is the same as with the clinging on to the DMD for so long, the manufacturers just do not want to change or are too set in their old ways to be able to think further than what they know. Very shortsighted if you ask me, because what they know has changed and they are not able to return to the old ways because of legislation. Instead of solving the problem, they just keep silent and keep on doing what they know, but does not work anymore.

Changing the playfield to something better does not take the soul out of pinball, it may just be that it could bring back the joy of it. Without the need for clearcoating there is also no worrying about the clearcoat.

#841 79 days ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

Been following this for a long time and I also did not order Wonka. First JJP I did not order at all. Does not make a dent in the sales but it is the only thing I can do to make it clear that I am not accepting the bad quality and bad after sales. This is not in the spirit of JJP and it is sad to see that it eventually always boils down to money no mattter what the initial intentions of a company were.
But what puzzles me is this: times change, environmental laws change, everyting changes. But why do the playfields not change? I can think of several ways to make playfields completely differently than the "wood with ink on it" that the manufacturers keep clinging onto that would hold up much better than the current playfields. They would need no protectors, no cliffy's no nothing.
It is the same as with the clinging on to the DMD for so long, the manufacturers just do not want to change or are too set in their old ways to be able to think further than what they know. Very shortsighted if you ask me, because what they know has changed and they are not able to return to the old ways because of legislation. Instead of solving the problem, they just keep silent and keep on doing what they know, but does not work anymore.
Changing the playfield to something better does not take the soul out of pinball, it may just be that it could bring back the joy of it. Without the need for clearcoating there is also no worrying about the clearcoat.

I prefer a wood playfield and really hope they don’t move to other materials.

#842 79 days ago

knot made of wood.

butterflypf02 (resized).jpg

#843 79 days ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

Marco Star Posts with their rubberized washers

What is the part number for the washer?

#844 79 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

I prefer a wood playfield and really hope they don’t move to other materials.

Must be atleast 50 years since there was a pinball game that you played on wood.

It´s really silly. A good comparision is the hockeystick, where selänne was (to my knowledge) the last nhlér to use a woodstick.
Now it´s all composite. It´s harder, sturdier and much lighter and the decals and clear seem to stick thru many games. The only think that is worse, is sharp penetrating in to the surface which will crack it (a chopping player stick, or a slapshot to the shaft) forces that a pinball never ever would reach.

Wood is the past. Still it should be possible to coat a wood playfield.

#845 79 days ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

It is the same as with the clinging on to the DMD for so long, the manufacturers just do not want to change or are too set in their old ways to be able to think further than what they know.

Score (painted on wood playfield) you added in your head.

Ball drop cavities where you counted the balls and totaled score in your head.

Numbers screened on backglass you added up in your head.

Score reels that totaled score for you.

Numeric score displays (electronic).

Alpha-numeric score and word displays.

Monochrome DMD.

Color DMD.

LCD.

#846 79 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Score (painted on wood playfield) you added in your head.
Ball drop cavities where you counted the balls and totaled score in your head.
Numbers screened on backglass you added up in your head.
Score reels that totaled score for you.
Numeric score displays (electronic).
Alpha-numeric score and word displays.
Monochrome DMD.
Color DMD.
LCD.

Stern never even made a Color DMD, modmakers did that. Even that was too far fetched for them. Change takes (too) long in pinball. The DMD was just an example which makes my point seeing how long it took for Stern to eventually go to the LCD screen. Without JJP they still would be using monochrome DMD.

edit: by the way evryone can post good looking old playfields all day long, fact is that it is not allowed anymore to make them like they used to. So until they find a water based clearcoat that is as good as the old clearcoats they used it is flawed to take them as an example.

#847 79 days ago
Quoted from swinks:

look at there clear mixture as something drastic has changed of late.
I think these companies are going for a eco friendly water based clear which is quicker and cheaper to apply compared to a urethane clear coat.

This is something I mentioned in Post 825. I believe you've hit the nail on the head. In the aftermarket automotive paint shops it came down to a few things... new environmental regs dictated that paint shops upgrade their booths to meet new regs for spraying paints/clearcoats with high VOC's and aromatics. The alternative was to switch to more enviromental friendly products which have low to no VOC's and viola... you don't have to spend tens of thousands to upgrade your paint booth. And yes... you are correct the water based paints are lower costs. Ask any paint shop and they'll tell you the price of high end paints have tripled over the last few years. I use a Spies/Hecker Acrylic Urethane 2-stage for paint, and still use a diamond hard 2PAC over that. Both are now crazy expensive. This is just conjecture on what "might be happening" to PF's. I'm simply a hobbyist that has painted on the side for decades, and keeps up with the automotive industry. My day job is working with Automotive Manufacturers and their paint mix shops to remove overspray from their paint booth systems using flocculant and coagulant chemicals.

#848 79 days ago
Quoted from tpir:

I'm sorry, I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but I don't get it. You think making a podcast about opting out of a CE is going to get JJP to reverse course and give free playfield replacements to everyone affected?
I completely understand bailing on any NIB pin given the events of the past few weeks. I definitely don't see how cancelling a preorder on an expensive toy is something that needs to be "supported" or might be "over the top." Cancelling is a no-brainer here IMO until JJP at least makes a statement. (Sadly cancelling my JP2 premium first thing tomorrow morning )

The more coverage this gets, the more pressure there is for JJP to do something.

#849 79 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

The more coverage this gets, the more pressure there is for JJP to do something.

No. The only thing that will make a difference is a marked slowdown in sales.

#850 79 days ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

Change takes (too) long in pinball.

Wifi

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