(Topic ID: 249691)

Wonka LE Sling Post Chipping in one month!!


By rs812

88 days ago



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#451 84 days ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Ask them.
Hopefully, they have buyer’s protection or may be able to file a chargeback.

A lot of credit card companies do as well. So if they paid with any credit card they should call their provider and see if they have any sort of additional warranties or protection on purchases. One of my CapitalOne cards offers an additional 18 months of warranty on purchases, though I'm not sure what the fine print is there.

15
#452 84 days ago

Welp, one day later and it's no longer "pooling," now it's "chipping." Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk

This is seriously annoying. 5 weeks. Five freaking weeks.

star post (resized).jpg

#453 84 days ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

Has there been a single populated JJP POTC pf swap under warranty?

I recall one or two WoZ and one Hobbit were talked aboot getting new drop-in playfields on pinside or RGP awhile back.

#454 84 days ago

Bally Tuff-Coat playfields for the win. Just clean and wax occasionally with Wildcat #125 (Recommended by Bally) no chipping/paint adhesion problems. My nearly 49 year old Bally 4 Queens playfield still looks great. Clear coat seems overrated to me.

#455 84 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

I recall one or two WoZ and one Hobbit were talked aboot getting new drop-in playfields on pinside or RGP awhile back.

Seems I remember a WOZ too...mine ( Mirco I'm guessing) is still in amazing shape on my ECLE. All the worse now, as something's going on, obviously

#456 84 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Welp, one day later and it's no longer "pooling," now it's "chipping." Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk
This is seriously annoying. 5 weeks. Five freaking weeks.
[quoted image]

Very sorry to hear/see this

#457 84 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Thick clear coat take months to cure. If JJP were to order the PFs at least 6 months prior to assembly, my bet is the issues we are currently facing, would not be happening.

True. BUT; there is evidence in this thread that Mirco - a supplier for JJP may be deliberately using "soft clear coat". I don't know what that means... but maybe the thought is soft clear won't chip as easily or somehow deforms with the ball better.

Personally; I think the vendor is mis-informed and is doing something to cost reduce or somehow make his life easier which is causing downstream product problems. Something JJP can't and won't acknowledge because they don't have the cashflow to "make this right". This is clear by the $500 "charge" to defective customers for a replacement unpopulated PF.

Regardless; the situation is bad for all vendors using a clear coat. They've all had problems to some degree. JJP is just handling it worse by being radio silent and not taking care of their customers. Stern has done it - they aren't getting a "pass" just because they have handled the situation better on their side.

#458 84 days ago
Quoted from dashv:

I like how for each individual mech you had to mention a different game having something similar.

Similar but better. I like how you don’t understand I was trying to make a clear point that mechs in older games were cooler, better, more innovative, and more fun.

#459 84 days ago
Quoted from dashv:

You got my point.
No idea why you got downvoted for this.

You're not truly a pinsider until you're kicked in the nuts. Repeatedly.

This was nothing.

#460 84 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Similar but better. I like how you don’t understand I was trying to make a clear point that mechs in older games were cooler, better, more innovative, and more fun.

Hehehehe “clear” point.

I’m not going to argue that there isn’t plenty of cool pins with different or even better mechs. I haven’t played everything.

I recently played Swords of Fury and loved the various mini playfields.

I just don’t see how older tables having different or even better mechs negates what JJP has done with tables like WOZ and how enjoyable it made it for me to play.

My point was that it was my first JJP experience and I was instantly impressed.

It looked great, played great, and made me want to keep playing to see what might happen next.

It made me want to buy the table even.

I was trying to give some honest kudos to JJP in a thread where I’ve been mostly critical and skeptical of them.

I never claimed no other table ever did anything innovative or better.

Just that the table shows/plays well. No small feat for a company that is a relatively new challenger.

#461 84 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Bally Tuff-Coat playfields for the win. Just clean and wax occasionally with Wildcat #125 (Recommended by Bally) no chipping/paint adhesion problems. My nearly 49 year old Bally 4 Queens playfield still looks great. Clear coat seems overrated to me.

Diamond Coat for the win.

#462 84 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

This is exactly what I’ve been talking about. Thick clear coat take months to cure. If JJP were to order the PFs at least 6 months prior to assembly, my bet is the issues we are currently facing, would not be happening. GNR PFs should be ordered now and completed asap, to allow curing time before assembly of the first machine next year, as they are planning. Chipping will most like not be an issue then. JJP fanboys have been denigrating what has been said about this issue, to downplay and place blame on Mirco. It is typical poor planning on the part of JJP and they are solely responsible for their product quality. If a 3rd party is not up to snuff, JJP should switch. They are in control, no one else. Buyer beware, buying a product with so many known issues.

And you know all this how?

#463 84 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Welp, one day later and it's no longer "pooling," now it's "chipping." Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk
This is seriously annoying. 5 weeks. Five freaking weeks.
[quoted image]

Noooooooooo.

#464 84 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Welp, one day later and it's no longer "pooling," now it's "chipping." Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk
This is seriously annoying. 5 weeks. Five freaking weeks.
[quoted image]

Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Welp, one day later and it's no longer "pooling," now it's "chipping." Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk
This is seriously annoying. 5 weeks. Five freaking weeks.
[quoted image]

Ouch, this drama is unfolding in real-time like a slow motion car crash.

And I thought Ghost-Gate was a big deal.

#465 84 days ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Welp, one day later and it's no longer "pooling," now it's "chipping." Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk
This is seriously annoying. 5 weeks. Five freaking weeks.
[quoted image]

I'll see your Wonka peel and raise you an Iron Maiden chip. There's clear pooling on this machine around a number of posts, but this one was on the inside of the sling so I wasn't too worried about it. Checked yesterday and it had chipped off to the wood.

iron_maiden_prem_chip (resized).jpg
#466 84 days ago
Quoted from dashv:

Hehehehe “clear” point.
I’m not going to argue that there isn’t plenty of cool pins with different or even better mechs. I haven’t played everything.
I recently played Swords of Fury and loved the various mini playfields.
I just don’t see how older tables having different or even better mechs negates what JJP has done with tables like WOZ and how enjoyable it made it for me to play.
My point was that it was my first JJP experience and I was instantly impressed.
It looked great, played great, and made me want to keep playing to see what might happen next.
It made me want to buy the table even.
I was trying to give some honest kudos to JJP in a thread where I’ve been mostly critical and skeptical of them.
I never claimed no other table ever did anything innovative or better.
Just that the table shows/plays well. No small feat for a company that is a relatively new challenger.

Tables....

I’m always rooting for JJP to do their thing and do it well. I respect WOZ, I just don’t get anything out of the toys, personally. Dialed In is neat, I just don’t wanna pay big bucks for one. Much to the chagrin of everyone on Pinside, I think Hobbit’s a great game. I hope they figure out this crappy playfield stuff in case GnR or Toy Story blow my socks off.

#467 84 days ago

Just got back from Sunshine Laundromat. Pretty bad chipping on both slings and pooling at every post in the game.

7D8B7C3D-FB88-42EA-87C1-C31556BD7061 (resized).jpegB00495BF-E3C7-4BE5-A4A7-3AD2152BD193 (resized).jpeg
#468 84 days ago
Quoted from wmanningiv:

Just got back from Sunshine Laundromat. Pretty bad chipping on both slings and pooling at every post in the game.[quoted image][quoted image]

What game is that?

#469 84 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

What game is that?

It's Wonka. You can tell by the art.

#470 84 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

And you know all this how?

Simple...chemistry.

#471 84 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

It's Wonka. You can tell by the art.

Unreal. Im gonna go home and take a real close look at my games. It would be hard for me to buy a new game right now and if they aren't going to stand behind these games i would say that they may as well just close up shop because there isnt anyone in their right mind that would buy a game from a company that won't stand behind issues like this. This is just insane. If the pooling just stayed at pooling i wouldn't care but when they start chipping thats just a whole different ball game there.

#472 84 days ago
Quoted from atrainn:

A lot of credit card companies do as well. So if they paid with any credit card they should call their provider and see if they have any sort of additional warranties or protection on purchases. One of my CapitalOne cards offers an additional 18 months of warranty on purchases, though I'm not sure what the fine print is there.

I know this for a fact....You will win. Chipping is not acceptable without a proper resolution. and a populated playfield, seems fair. But again Inam shocked that these are not getting addressed.

YOU WILL WIN...just got to thru the process.

-8
#473 84 days ago

Look at all the table chipping photos above. Chips/pooling is at the base of the old Bally/Williams star posts, which JJP uses exclusively (Stern has used them in the past, I know). Unless someone has an example, haven’t seen that issue with Sterns newer regular thinner posts, that don’t have such a large foot print that constantly torques on the surface of the playfield, as the heavy steel ball hits the post with high velocity.

The large surface foot print contact area of the Bally/Williams star posts might also have something to do with these problems than we might suspect? Every time those slings are hit, the large star post begins slight rocking/torquing on the playfield surface. Do it enough times and you’ll break the coating of nearly any table with brittle uncured clear coat.

#474 84 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Look at all the table chipping photos above. Chips/pooling is at the base of the old Bally/Williams star posts, which JJP uses exclusively (Stern has used them in the past, I know). Unless someone has an example, haven’t seen that issue with Sterns newer regular thinner posts, that don’t have such a large foot print that constantly torques on the surface of the playfield, as the heavy steel ball hits the post with high velocity.
The large surface foot print contact area of the Bally/Williams star posts might also have something to do with all these problems as much or more than we might suspect.

But pirates used narrow posts and wider star posts was the fix to conceal/arrest it.

#475 84 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Look at all the table chipping photos above. Chips/pooling is at the base of the old Bally/Williams star posts, which JJP uses exclusively (Stern has used them in the past, I know). Unless someone has an example, haven’t seen that issue with Sterns newer regular thinner posts, that don’t have such a large foot print that constantly torques on the surface of the playfield, as the heavy steel ball hits the post with high velocity.
The large surface foot print contact area of the Bally/Williams star posts might also have something to do with all these problems as much or more than we might suspect.

The Iron Maiden picture with pooling that became a chip that I just posted was a "new" Stern. The narrow posts also have minor pooling. It's a Stern problem, too. The posts sizes aren't the problem, the clear pooling and ink adhesion are.

#476 84 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

The Iron Maiden picture with pooling that became a chip that I just posted was a "new" Stern. The narrow posts also have minor pooling. It's a Stern problem, too. The posts aren't the problem, the clear and ink adhesion are.

Agreed that the clear and ink adhesion issue is where the problem lies. Just thinking the star posts might add to this issue. Car manufactures have a paint clear coat adhesion problem when the clear coat batch is not properly mixed with the right chemicals. Chipping happens there too, but they replace or reshoot the car with new paint, few questions asked. They usually issue a recall.

#477 84 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Agreed that the clear and ink adhesion issue is where the problem lies. Just thinking the star posts might add to this issue.

Nope. Pooling and chipping is happening to any post size I've seen on Stern and JJP jjPotC/Wonka. Just not all the Stern PF runs have the issue because likely Stern is still using multiple suppliers.

#478 84 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

I know this for a fact....You will win. Chipping is not acceptable without a proper resolution. and a populated playfield, seems fair. But again Inam shocked that these are not getting addressed.
YOU WILL WIN...just got to thru the process.

I am. not kidding here...This is really got me shocked and everything that is being said here and some other.posts.

First...I see. no issues on my POTC CE playfield.and even though that is great...I feel worried about others and how their.games are not being addressed. I got some real concerns here and will be doing some homework over the next few days by the weekend

Second...Got to take a stand. These games are expensive. We.are.not talking about a.door that should be powder coated. And they should for the record. But this is serious. I know some think of me as crazy...I just love pinball. But I have a real concern if these are not being taken care of for the customers. Who knows....my next game from JJP playfield could be the next story. 12,500 or even 9,500 or even 5000 it needs to be done right and if there is a. issue...Take care.of the client.

I AM TRULY CONCERNED....I just find it hard that JJP is not handling this issue.

#479 84 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Nope. Pooling and chipping is happening to any post size I've seen on Stern and JJP jjPotC/Wonka. Just not all the Stern PF runs have the issue because likely Stern is still using multiple suppliers.

Makes sense it happens to any size, just think the larger footprint might present the bigger issue here. I’ve seen it on my machines with the star posts, but never the smaller thinner posts to date. Although earlier JJP machines with star posts no chipping issue for me.

JJP fix with populated new PF, is the only solution here to consider, unless full refund issued.

#480 84 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

.I just find it hard that JJP is not handling this issue.

Believe it because they aren't and if you dont believe me go over to the Pirates thread and read about it.

#481 84 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Believe it because they aren't and if you dont believe me go over to the Pirates thread and read about it.

It took YEARS to settle on a permanent solution to the 1.x lighting problems on WoZ. Jack also took care of people with original ECLE WoZ Bader playfields that chipped off in large chunks once he had a better playfield option.

Likewise, this is a pretty big problem since JJP isn't the only manufacturer with it happening, and while I don't think this will be solved overnight, I do believe JJP will eventually come through.

#482 84 days ago

Since around 2009 I have seen all kinds of issues in NIB games, and can remember everyone complaining how thin the clear was on Tron and Iron Man. Maybe clear is too thick now?!

Anyway, the whole node board issue had me doubting whether to buy a NIB, but Stern step up and replace so thought what the heck, buy a Maiden.

Stern have been great sorting out defects on my Maiden.

This issue really is different to anything prior.

I won't be buying any NIB until playfield issues are rectified.

It's just not worth it, as for me it would ruin the enjoyment of getting a NIB.

Yes, it doesn't effect gameplay but it makes the game much more expensive due to the hit you will take on resale.

#483 84 days ago

looking at those photos that is definitely a paint not sticking to the wood issue, The clear is probably the only thing keeping it in place! Must be using a different ink / wood or something has changed that does not allow the two to bind correctly?

#484 84 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

It took YEARS to settle on a permanent solution to the 1.x lighting problems on WoZ. Jack also took care of people with original ECLE WoZ Bader playfields that chipped off in large chunks once he had a better playfield option.
Likewise, this is a pretty big problem since JJP isn't the only manufacturer with it happening, and while I don't think this will be solved overnight, I do believe JJP will eventually come through.

The only acceptable solution though is a new populated playfield and they are only offering people a unpopulated playfield for 550 dollars.

#485 84 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

The only acceptable solution though is a new populated playfield and they are only offering people a unpopulated playfield for 550 dollars.

Big picture, we're at the beginning of this issue. No use jumping to contusions yet.

#486 84 days ago
Quoted from russdx:

looking at those photos that is definitely a paint not sticking to the wood issue, The clear is probably the only thing keeping it in place! Must be using a different ink / wood or something has changed that does not allow the two to bind correctly?

And like I've said a number of times, it's dumb because Mirco HAD IT WORKING RIGHT for late run WoZ and ALL OF HOBBIT'S RUN. They knew how to make it work, then they started playing around and messed up Dialed In (clear cracking/chipping, but the art held) and jjPotC/Wonka with the ink adhesion and clear pooling. It's a moronic regression. Doesn't Mirco keep NOTES about what worked?

#487 84 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Since around 2009 I have seen all kinds of issues in NIB games, and can remember everyone complaining how thin the clear was on Tron and Iron Man. Maybe clear is too thick now?!
Anyway, the whole node board issue had me doubting whether to buy a NIB, but Stern step up and replace so thought what the heck, buy a Maiden.
Stern have been great sorting out defects on my Maiden.

Stern's been on balance very good for support on the machines we've bought (probably close to 2 dozen now). Just today I got warranty support for an Iron Maiden Prem where both newton balls had come loose off the post they're pressed to (the lower one came clean off). I was expecting to have to buy them since it was just a little over a year old, but they took care of it.

Playfield clear bunching on that same Maiden wasn't deemed bad enough for a replacement when I emailed about it last year, though.

#488 84 days ago
Quoted from russdx:

looking at those photos that is definitely a paint not sticking to the wood issue, The clear is probably the only thing keeping it in place! Must be using a different ink / wood or something has changed that does not allow the two to bind correctly?

The more I look at this issue, the more i’m convinced that the ink/art playfield/clear coat is not properly binding. Unless someone shows me differently, Munsters has no issues here since they did not let the artwork interfere with the slings for example. No ink/artwork/clear coat adhesion issue in the typical troubled sling area, as WW and POTC demonstrate. Sling posts on Munsters have no artwork/ink directly below the posts.

2A61F3D5-AA9E-4A8E-8802-1CBB4B5AA9A9 (resized).jpeg
#489 84 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Stern's been on balance very good for support on the machines we've bought (probably close to 2 dozen now). Just today I got warranty support for an Iron Maiden Prem where both newton balls had come loose off the post they're pressed to (the lower one came clean off). I was expecting to have to buy them since it was just a little over a year old, but they took care of it.
Playfield clear bunching on that same Maiden wasn't deemed bad enough for a replacement when I emailed about it last year, though.

I also don't like Stern's solution on JP2 of putting ugly metal washers underneath the posts. Band aid really.

It makes sense though, as guessing it will delay potential issues, possibly for years.

And let's face it, other than a few threads on pinside, most buyers of these NIB games will never spot these issues.

#490 84 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I also don't like Stern's solution on JP2 of putting ugly metal washers underneath the posts. Band aid really.
It makes sense though, as guessing it will delay potential issues, possibly for years.
And let's face it, other than a few threads on pinside, most buyers of these NIB games will never spot these issues.

Yeah, all of it is a band-aid until the solution is arrived at. Munsters and ACNC method of just not printing playfield art in high-risk areas isn't really a solution, just a reduction of the visibility of the problem since if the ink isn't adhering to the wood well (the core problem with Stern and JJP), that means that any weird ball impact can break a chip of PF completely free like on the early WoZ Bader playfields where whole chunks of playfield in the pop bumper garden (and to a lesser extent, elsewhere) came off.

#491 84 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

The more I look at this issue, the more i’m convinced that the ink/art playfield/clear coat is not properly binding. Unless someone shows me differently, Munsters has no issues here since they did not let the artwork interfere with the slings for example. No ink/artwork/clear coat adhesion issue in the typical troubled sling area, as WW and POTC demonstrate. Sling posts on Munsters have no artwork/ink directly below the posts.[quoted image]

Pretty sure ink adhesion failure is the core problem and all the rest of the problems are knock on effects from there.

#492 84 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Pretty sure ink adhesion failure is the core problem and all the rest of the problems are knock on effects from there.

Makes sense as it feels like these playfields would be like peeling dry bark from a tree.

#493 84 days ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

I am. not kidding here...This is really got me shocked and everything that is being said here and some other.posts.
First...I see. no issues on my POTC CE playfield.and even though that is great...I feel worried about others and how their.games are not being addressed. I got some real concerns here and will be doing some homework over the next few days by the weekend
Second...Got to take a stand. These games are expensive. We.are.not talking about a.door that should be powder coated. And they should for the record. But this is serious. I know some think of me as crazy...I just love pinball. But I have a real concern if these are not being taken care of for the customers. Who knows....my next game from JJP playfield could be the next story. 12,500 or even 9,500 or even 5000 it needs to be done right and if there is a. issue...Take care.of the client.
I AM TRULY CONCERNED....I just find it hard that JJP is not handling this issue.

I was very interested in wonka before hearing about these issues.Im going to see how this plays out before making up my mind to buy one or not.

All buyers who have issues need to keep hammering away at JJP (or stern)and the distributor they purchased their machine from to get them to address these issues. If they stick with their solution of we will sell you a replacement playfield at $500 (or sterns “play fields are not perfect” in the owners manual so here’s some sandpaper and clear to touch up the areas) flatly refuse and keep on them. Print shirts to wear at pinball shows if need be. This is not going to get resolved unless buyers of these machines raise hell.

I’m normally not one to quote someone if I wasn’t actually present for the conversation but my friend was in new jersey a while back and made a call to take a tour of the factory. He said he was pretty impressed but also said something that didn’t seem very important to me at the time (which was before I heard about these issues) but now stands out as an important detail.

Allegedly the person said that things were going great with production and that they had only been getting a few complaints from buyers but they were from picky collector types. I can’t imagine why he would have told me this if it wasn’t true as he doesn’t own a machine with issues.

#494 84 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Unreal. Im gonna go home and take a real close look at my games. It would be hard for me to buy a new game right now and if they aren't going to stand behind these games i would say that they may as well just close up shop because there isnt anyone in their right mind that would buy a game from a company that won't stand behind issues like this. This is just insane. If the pooling just stayed at pooling i wouldn't care but when they start chipping thats just a whole different ball game there.

I agree 100%, no more NIB for me. I couldn't decide between Wonka and JP2, now i save my money instead for sure.

Don't care about the pooling on my Maiden, but DP looks awful with ribbing/planking and Stern haven't been nice to me about that.

#495 84 days ago

Have any owners of a bad JJP playfield contacted Mirco directly? It would be nice to see what their response is and if they are willing to help since you are their customer as well.

#496 84 days ago

I posted this in another thread as well. Here is some chipping that happened to my Maiden Pro.

F27D98FE-E4F0-4DB6-9FF8-6081AF958BBC (resized).jpeg
#497 84 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Big picture, we're at the beginning of this issue. No use jumping to contusions yet.

Not sure, my last conversation with JJP was followed up with a shit or get of the pot email from them to order a replacement PF. I didn’t respond yet because I don’t feel like itis the correct resolution and certainly don’t want to pay $550 now if there will be some other offer later.

Really don’t like their philosophy on customer service.

As for not having the financial resources to weather this shit storm and do the right thing....if this is true than they probably ought to close the doors. Talk about poor management. Sometimes you need to take a small hit short term get through the problem to take two steps ahead and at the same time really build trust in your customer base. They aren’t doing this at the moment.

My other issue is that, there are an awful lot of people having these issues but how many are actually in contact with JJP about it? I’m going to guess less than 10% and that isn’t good.

We should all be hammering the hell out of them and our distributors.

#498 84 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Look at all the table chipping photos above. Chips/pooling is at the base of the old Bally/Williams star posts, which JJP uses exclusively (Stern has used them in the past, I know). Unless someone has an example, haven’t seen that issue with Sterns newer regular thinner posts, that don’t have such a large foot print that constantly torques on the surface of the playfield, as the heavy steel ball hits the post with high velocity.
The large surface foot print contact area of the Bally/Williams star posts might also have something to do with these problems than we might suspect? Every time those slings are hit, the large star post begins slight rocking/torquing on the playfield surface. Do it enough times and you’ll break the coating of nearly any table with brittle uncured clear coat.

POTC uses the skinny posts.
Maybe try getting your facts straight before posting.

#499 84 days ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

table chipping

Nope

#500 84 days ago

I know how Chicago Gaming make them and I have never seen this problem on any Remake.

There are a few things different on modern Playfields most are doing
The Playfields are now digital printed, which adhesion is not as good as screen print
the clear coat is water based and could be reacting with the solvent based Digital Ink
It could also be the type of petroleum based chemicals in the plastic posts reacting with the clear coat.

If these playfields by several manufacturers are having the same problem, and if they are not being made by Mirco and I am sure they are using different clearcoat what else has changed.

The digital printer has that changed?
The clearcoat?
The Post supplier?

Its not rocket science

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