(Topic ID: 114357)

Wolf's Beginner Guide to 3D Printing and Pinball

By Wolfmarsh

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by OlDirty
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    There are 219 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 5.
    #51 6 years ago

    Thought I would post this here to share my experience with an issue on the Printrbot Printrboard, and also show that repairing surface mount components isn't too bad.

    After the last print I ran a couple of weeks ago, my Z-stop was showing always triggered, even if the probe wasn't sensing the print bed.

    A bunch of searching led me to this post:

    http://help.printrbot.com/Answers/View/14719/Z-Axis+only+moves+up%2C+Z-stop+always+triggered#answer14720

    Turns out, mine failed much more spectacularly. My z probe had an internal failure that also blew the transistor it drove, causing a dead short that blew a trace on the PCB as well.

    I was being a little lazy and didn't pull out the hot air station, so this repair was done with just a pencil soldering iron. You'll have to excuse it being a little crooked.

    Here is the replaced transistor:

    ReplacedTransistor.jpg

    Here is the 12V trace repair, not too different from pinball:

    12VRepair.jpg

    I took a couple of other steps in the repair as well. I replaced the z probe with a new one. I also added a 220 Ohm resistor inline in the red sensor line in the Z-Probe cable. Based on some of the reading in that post I linked from the printrbot site, I agree with their assessment that the z-probe can fail and feedback to the transistor. I used a beefier part but also added the resistor to give a little protection to the line if the new probe fails internally like the old one did.

    The printer is back up and running and already printing stuff again.

    tl;dr - If you have a printrbot simple metal, consider adding a resistor on the red sensor line on the z-probe connection. Also, repairing surface mount is not as scary as everyone makes it out to be, even with a standard pencil iron.

    EDIT - I also added the free heated bed insulator kit, and I confirmed my bed can sit at 100 degrees now, but that's about it.

    1 month later
    #52 6 years ago

    Just wanted to share, I printed my largest and longest print to date. 5 hours and 34 minutes. 5.5 inches square-ish. 1 inch thick. It ran real nice, my only issue during the run was the spool kept tangling up. Apparently a bad spool. I had to baby sit the whole print which kind of sucked. Lesson learned, check spooling before large prints. LOL

    20150506_061513.jpg

    edit to add that 89 feet of filament was used.

    #53 6 years ago

    I saw that a couple months back. definitely cool technology, but with all SLA's the liquid bath for printing is expensive, and the parts are brittle (but pretty). Most people on here using them for pinball parts need them to be strong (ABS FDM filaments).

    2 months later
    #54 6 years ago

    We just got a printrbot simple at the office. I don't know why. Maybe I'll have some use for it.

    Thanks for the great writeup. Hadn't heard about OctoPi. Going to suggest we consider that since it will be in a shared environment (this will end well).

    #55 6 years ago
    Quoted from radium:

    We just got a printrbot simple at the office. I don't know why. Maybe I'll have some use for it.
    Thanks for the great writeup. Hadn't heard about OctoPi. Going to suggest we consider that since it will be in a shared environment (this will end well).

    OctoPi is definitely the way to go for a printrbot, IMO. In the past 6 months it's gotten a lot of feature upgrades.

    Enjoy your printer! If you want something cool to print to test it out, check out this T-REX skull. It's one of my favorite prints. It was designed to be optimized for a 3D printer with proper curves and overhangs. It prints fantastic.

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:308335

    #56 6 years ago

    I picked up a CraftBot 3D printer from CraftUnique (www.craftunique.com) as part of their IndieGoGo crowd funded startup. They have a real nice slicer setup that allows you to slice your object to a file, transfer the file to a thumb drive and print from the thumb drive. Which is a big help for me as my computer is upstairs and there is no room for the CraftBot. If you have room next to your computer you can plug it directly in via USB port and slice directly to the Craftbot.

    I thought I had pics on my phone, but I just checked and I don't see them. I'll have to post some later.

    I just finished my first pinball related print a couple of weeks ago. I needed a replacement for one of the drop targets on Xenon and found a simple pattern for one on one of the 3D object sites. I downloaded and printed it as is, then printed it a second time with supports added. The second one turned out great. I have it installed and am waiting to see how durable it is. I know Bally drop targets are still readily available, I just wanted something that is going to get a lot of smacking around to see how well the PET holds up to the silver wrecking ball.

    ken

    1 month later
    #57 6 years ago

    Tips on getting a really nice first layer? I've got a robo3d printer, and the first layer is always a little rough. I have a heated bed, using pla 70c on the bed 215 on the pla. Using hairspray to make it stick better. First layer always seems to have skips in it and doesnt seem to adhear well. I do skirts around the object which has helped a lot. Right now I'm printing some add ons for the printer itself, so I'm not that concerned, but I'd like to get it fine tuned...

    #58 6 years ago
    Quoted from Jackster:

    Tips on getting a really nice first layer? I've got a robo3d printer, and the first layer is always a little rough. I have a heated bed, using pla 70c on the bed 215 on the pla. Using hairspray to make it stick better. First layer always seems to have skips in it and doesnt seem to adhear well. I do skirts around the object which has helped a lot. Right now I'm printing some add ons for the printer itself, so I'm not that concerned, but I'd like to get it fine tuned...

    Can you post a pic of your first layer? I can probably help, but the visual helps tremendously.

    #59 6 years ago

    http://support.3dverkstan.se/article/23-a-visual-ultimaker-troubleshooting-guide

    I just found this, and it should help me out a lot, if I can make the adjustments. Mine most closely resembles:

    http://support.3dverkstan.se/article/23-a-visual-ultimaker-troubleshooting-guide#bottomlayer

    My first layer looks very similar - rest of the print usually is ok, so it seems like a bed leveling issue.

    #60 6 years ago

    What are your M212 values?

    #61 6 years ago

    I'm using mattercontrol and it has an auto bed leveling guide where its using a sheet of paper to calibrate the bed/nozzle spacing. I'll see if I can find the actual values.

    #62 6 years ago

    If you have a connection to it, you should be able to do M501 and get a list of the values.

    #63 6 years ago

    Its actually in the middle of a print. I made some adjustments - I relevelled the bed again, I also found out that my nozzle is .4 mm, not .5mm. The raft and first layer look the best I've seen, but I wont know till it actually finishes. I also changed the slicer engine from mattercontrols own to cura3d. I really want to do that t-rex skull you linked to earlier, but once I get everything dialed in.

    Have you used any of the exotic filaments yet - flexible, wood, etc, and where are you buying them from?

    #64 6 years ago

    Haven't used any exotics yet. Haven't really had a project to use them on yet.

    #65 6 years ago

    using simplify3d and rigidbot here. Dual extruder mod comes in a week. I am thinking of designing a small "hump" for the back of IJ POA to help make sure the ball ends up on the correct side when it first drops in. Thinking of flexible filament as well to it also deadens the drop to solve the other issue where the ball almost always goes into the pit regardless. I'm tired of trying to tune the thing and add washers to the front to lesson the slope and all that.

    1 week later
    #66 6 years ago

    Hey Wolfmarsh,

    Did you see the new upgrades for the printbot simple?
    http://printrbot.com/shop/simple-x-axis-upgrade/
    http://printrbot.com/shop/simple-super-z-upgrade/

    4 more inches of print space on the x and z. Nice!

    Happy printing!

    Brian

    #67 6 years ago

    I hadn't seen those! That's pretty awesome, I think I might be ordering the X one at least.

    Thanks for posting!

    #68 6 years ago

    That's what I was thinking too. the X increase would be a huge gain.

    Brian

    #69 6 years ago

    Anyone have any tips on a good (preferably free) program or process for reducing mesh complexity for third-party printing services? Adobe MeshMixer is proving to be frustrating and ineffective.

    #70 6 years ago

    After I get a nicer CNC machine, I plan to eventually get the parts needed to make it dual-purpose as a 3D printer.

    One issue I have with many of the prints is the finish. For a 3D printed part that serves as a functional piece that isn't for viewing, it's fine, but I don't care for the visible texture if it's supposed to be a "finished" object for display, such as a playfield toy or something.

    There are apparently a few methods for finishing a 3D printed object, though. I haven't personally seen the results, but has anyone tried anything like this brush-on resin product from Smooth-On?
    http://www.smooth-on.com/index.php?cPath=1429

    I think there may be the possibility to use some kind of chemical that melts plastic, too?

    #71 6 years ago

    ABS can be smoothed with acetone. There's a bunch of info on vapour bathing ABS prints for a shiny smooth surface. I've never done it but the results look good if you get it figured out - it is cumbersome and somewhat unadvised without properly setting it up safely which goes against my typical work style

    That smooth-on product looks interesting... might be tempted to try it myself

    #72 6 years ago

    Wolf are you still printing PLA and ABS directly to Kapton with purple glue stick? I hadn't seen this method before for both PLA and ABS and I like the simplicity and cleanliness of it. I think I have developed a slight levelling issue to compound the problem, but the new Kapton I recently applied seems to be worse at bonding than the kapton my printer first came with.

    As an aside, does everyone else hate printing with black PLA as much as I do? I can't seem to pin down a good slicing and printing profile for the stuff I have. Every other color seems to behave similarly, but black is always different even for different prints with black it seems. Mine definitely prints cooler (~195°C or so) but I always seem to have one or two crap quality prints to nail down nice print settings with black PLA.

    #73 6 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    Wolf are you still printing PLA and ABS directly to Kapton with purple glue stick? I hadn't seen this method before and I like the simplicity and cleanliness of it. I think I have developed a slight levelling issue to compound the problem, but the new Kapton I recently applied seems to be worse at bonding than the kapton my printer first came with.

    Yes, for 99% of my pieces I print on Kapton with a layer of purple glue stick. It works beautifully, sometimes too well. I've learned to adjust the "thickness" of the glue stick layer. I put more layers for smaller pieces that are easier to pop off, and thinner layers of glue for large pieces that have a lot of surface area touching the table.

    Sometimes I will use the straight kapton with no glue, but if I do that I use naptha to make sure the kapton is 100% clean of any oils and contaminants, that seems to help.

    Quoted from winteriscoming:

    One issue I have with many of the prints is the finish.

    I personally don't think the finish is that big of a deal. If you get your printer dialed in, it's almost invisible from more than a foot away.

    #74 6 years ago

    I find printing on glass works the best. blue tape and kapton can get damaged and then it is lot of work to fix it.
    Pla prints very well on glass cleaned with white vinegar at 60 degree C.
    Abs I normally print on a glass bed with glue stick at 100 degree C. IF you lucky the plastic pops off during cooling without damaging the glue layer, but that is easy fixed. If the glue gets too bumpy , I spread some water over the prindbed and level the glue.
    If the ABS has to look good on the bottom side (glass smooth), i use abs slurry on glass. Drawback is that you need to apply the slurry after every print.

    #75 6 years ago

    How did you attach your glass? What thickness did you get?

    #76 6 years ago

    I agree that all the tapes get damaged, but I typically quickly temporarily blue tape over the kapton tape for 'critical' PLA (otherwise just on Kapton), and after a year of minor damage to the Kapton tape, I finally replaced it and frankly I found that replacing the kapton tape was way easier than I thought it would be. I have one of the 6" wide kapton rolls and its literally just rolling it out about an inch at a time and 'ironing' it down with a scraper/credit card. Took about 3 minutes.

    That said, I'm interested in trying the gluestick method (just bought some) for kicks but it will be on kapton for now. The ABS slurry and hairspray type solutions are less interesting to me - they sound like a mess frankly and I already have too much grease/alcohol/lubricant/etc near my 'arts and crafts' area lol. That really has more to do with my terrible work area than the actual execution of course...

    #77 6 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    How did you attach your glass? What thickness did you get?

    A lot of people use 3D printed clips that just hold the glass on the existing print bed so you can remove it and clean/change it. Whatever thickness you use you make an identical 3D printed 'stopper' for the z-axis to prevent the heads from running into the bed.

    Note I've never tried it, just read about it.

    #78 6 years ago

    By the way... I HIGHLY recommend this kit for part removal. The metal spatula is awesome for breaking parts free from the bed and the plastic scraper applies kapton tape and removes debris awesomely.

    Also its a delight for scrapbooking

    amazon.com link »

    #79 6 years ago
    Quoted from Law:

    Anyone have any tips on a good (preferably free) program or process for reducing mesh complexity for third-party printing services? Adobe MeshMixer is proving to be frustrating and ineffective.

    Any input on this? I'm pretty much looking for a way to save/export complex curves using lower-resolution meshes. I've not had much luck finding an appropriate and available tool to date.

    #80 6 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    Whatever thickness you use you make an identical 3D printed 'stopper' for the z-axis to prevent the heads from running into the bed.

    Oh man, it's like you can see the big gouges in my metal bed or something....

    My Z sensor failed a while back.

    gouges.jpg

    #81 6 years ago
    Quoted from Law:

    Any input on this? I'm pretty much looking for a way to save/export complex curves using lower-resolution meshes. I've not had much luck finding an appropriate and available tool to date.

    I don't know enough about 3D modeling to have needed a tool like this, so I've got nothin.

    #82 6 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    The metal spatula is awesome for breaking parts free from the bed

    This is what I use, not joking.

    71wiAXXM2FL._SL1500_.jpg

    #83 6 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Oh man, it's like you can see the big gouges in my metal bed or something....
    My Z sensor failed a while back.

    I kid you not... first print I ever did I BARELY missed putting a huge scratch in my bed. Only tore the Kapton tape thankfully but I was still like fuuuuuuuuu...... I have never needed more than that spatula (and patience) since buying it, no joke. However I've never done this glue thing either so ill let you know which pliars I used later this week perhaps

    For the record my printer is a Flashforge Creator Pro in case anyone was pondering - I don't think I've ever mentioned that on here and its always good to know in case someone's shopping around for a printer.

    Wolf have you ever done any work on your extruder(s)? I feel like I've been lucky enough to not have to touch mine. If it ain't broke don't fix it is my motto and so far... it ain't broke.

    #84 6 years ago
    Quoted from Law:

    Any input on this? I'm pretty much looking for a way to save/export complex curves using lower-resolution meshes. I've not had much luck finding an appropriate and available tool to date.

    My level of knowledge on STL models and mesh modelling is limited or else I'd be happy to help out. I can tell you Solidworks (2014 and previousat least) has the worst STL importing and handling of any software I've used so far which is shocking to me in this day and age of "omg 3d pr0nting iz cool!!!11"

    #85 6 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    How did you attach your glass? What thickness did you get?

    I connect the glass on the heated bed with metal paperclips. Fastener1.jpg I normally use 4 of then to hold the class. You can remove the glass very quicky.

    Not certain what thickness you mean. The glass is 3 mm thick. If you heat it up to 100 degree you need to use borosilicate glass . Normal glass will crack after a couple of prints at that temperature due to tension I found out after cutting my 4th piece! This is the glass I use: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-2pcs-lot-3D-Printer-Reprap-MK2-Heated-Bed-Borosilicate-Glass-Plate-size-213-200/2018703259.html

    Normally the prints crack off when the bed cools. For stubborn ones I use this painter knife. It is very thin at the front , ideal to poke under the object.knife.jpg

    #86 6 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    Wolf have you ever done any work on your extruder(s)? I feel like I've been lucky enough to not have to touch mine. If it ain't broke don't fix it is my motto and so far... it ain't broke.

    Unfortunately, yes.

    My prints started going downhill about 3 months ago. I was having to run the temp up to 210C-215C to print with PLA and even then, my extruder was jamming and having extrusion problems.

    I was on an older version of the Printrbot extruder. Even after changing the feed gear and the extruder tip, I was still having issues. I ended up just buying one of their new Ubis 13 metal hot ends and swapping out the entire thing. While I was doing that, I changed the belts, the Z-nut and threaded rod, and just generally tightened and adjusted everything.

    It prints better now than it did when I first bought it. I've always read that extruder nozzles, belts, etc... are items that wear and should be replaced on a schedule, but I guess I thought it would manifest differently.

    In the end, I've learned that next time I have extruder jams and I'm starting to have to raise the temp to print, just go ahead and replace the extruder hot end and use that as my schedule for doing the other maintenance on the machine as well.

    #87 6 years ago

    What post processor is anyone using with slic3r? I just finally looked into slic3r and it seems miles ahead of RepG and Skeinforge (still haven't tried a print yet so finger crossed it outputs some decent quality) but one hiccup is it has no native gcode -> x3g processor. Was going to use RepG for now but is something like GPX worth dealing with Perl and whatnot?

    #88 6 years ago

    great thread wolf marsh, lots of valuable information here

    I need to finish off a second printer that I started building ages ago a mini delta and it uses the prong sensor but the guy who created it is now using a force sensor but doesn't like heat so not sure if it can be switched off before the heat bed is turned on ??

    http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?product_id=3104

    #89 6 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    What post processor is anyone using with slic3r?

    I use mainly slic3r for slicing from the repetier host frontend. Occasionally i use the cura slicer in repetier or in its on frontend.
    Save the design on sd card and print it using my mendel90 printer.
    Sadly slic3r is in my opinion quite bad at supports and rafts and Cura is better in these.

    Currently I am playing around with a wifi sd card to see if I can save the file directly to sd card.

    #90 6 years ago

    I use slic3r exclusively, and I use an Octopi setup to run the machine over wifi.

    It's even accessible from the internet so I can control and monitor it remotely.

    My machine accepts straight gcode though, so I don't have to do the post processing conversion.

    #91 6 years ago

    For bed I use glass and PEI as surface.. Works great for PLA and abs. Just keep clean with rubbing alcohol.

    Just almost finished my dual extruders (e3d v6) upgrade (mods arent just for pinball) w/ auto bed leveling (well tramming). Unfortunately that means I need to redo the bed as need to make glass - aluminum foil - PEI sandwhich to have metal near the surface for the sensor.

    Quick video I made of the upgrade for a guy in community. Hadn't quite finished cleaning it up but get a sense:

    

    Also for CAD software ive been learning OnShape. Cloud based, has feel of solidworks (made by some ex solidworks employees). Free for 5 private files , everything else has to be public/shared.

    And for also dabbling in PCB design after taking community ed course (using altium) I'm using their new free/cloud Circuit Maker. Which is basically stripped down altium.. Free for 2 private designs / rest has to be public.

    #92 6 years ago

    Here's a thread where I made a bunch of sign mods for TSPP. I sold quite a few of these things. But currently out of production,

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/simpsons-pinball-party-mod

    #93 6 years ago
    Quoted from sandersj:

    Here's a thread where I made a bunch of sign mods for TSPP. I sold quite a few of these things. But currently out of production,
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/simpsons-pinball-party-mod

    Those are awesome, you have a 3 extruded machine or just print separate and glue them?

    #94 6 years ago
    Quoted from sd_tom:

    Just almost finished my dual extruders (e3d v6) upgrade (mods arent just for pinball) w/ auto bed leveling (well tramming).

    Very nice!! The auto leveling is critical, and one reason I've stayed away from the glass bed. I don't have to use rafts at all because of it.

    #95 6 years ago

    Supposedly sandwiching decent aluminum foil between the glass and your true surface (PEI in my case) will be enough to trigger the sensor. We will see, PEI isn't cheap ($16 for a sheet) so hoping it all goes well. Love love the PEI though as a permanent bed surface.. I surprised more people don't talk about it in the 3d printing communities.

    Just don't think I can peel my existing sheet / double sided tape off the existing glass to add aluminum without damaging it so got fresh sheet. Going to update to window glass thickness (have been picture frame glass) also.

    #96 6 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    I use slic3r exclusively, and I use an Octopi setup to run the machine over wifi.
    It's even accessible from the internet so I can control and monitor it remotely.
    My machine accepts straight gcode though, so I don't have to do the post processing conversion.

    I hadn't realized that makerbots and clones (ie - sailfish printers) were the only ones still using post-processing to x3g. Running straight gcode would be nice. I'll be using GPX or RepG for post processing for now I suppose. I'm excited to try out slic3r and see how it's slice pathing works... there are some very nice options to play with that will theoretically solve a lot of hiccups I've battled with in the past.

    Also: I tried out the gluestick on kapton last night with a quick PLA test print. Very impressive results. I also just ordered a glass sheet after claiming how I didn't "need" one... apparently I love spending hobby money

    #97 6 years ago
    Quoted from Law:

    Any input on this? I'm pretty much looking for a way to save/export complex curves using lower-resolution meshes. I've not had much luck finding an appropriate and available tool to date.

    Have you tried MeshLab? Last time I looked at it (which was a long time ago, I admit) it seemed to be pretty powerful, but it had a kind of terrible interface. http://meshlab.sourceforge.net

    #98 6 years ago

    Meshlab, and Blender are both powerful design software. But there is a learning curve involved that's for sure.

    #99 6 years ago
    Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

    Also: I tried out the gluestick on kapton last night with a quick PLA test print. Very impressive results. I also just ordered a glass sheet after claiming how I didn't "need" one... apparently I love spending hobby money

    Glad you like the glue stick.

    I'm still iffy on the glass. I'm not having any problems with kapton and glue stick, so I'm hesitant to change anything. I'm also about to upgrade my X-axis to add a couple more inches.

    #100 6 years ago
    Quoted from ovfdfireman:

    Those are awesome, you have a 3 extruded machine or just print separate and glue them?

    I pause the print and swap colors.

    There are 219 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 5.

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