My Space Odyssey is awarding too much bonus?
Space Odyssey has lights to show you bonus... 1000- 9000 and a 10,000 and 20,000 light.. So say I only get 3000 in bonus, when the machine counts it down it gives me 20,000 or so points? None of the Double Bonus lights are lit or anything. When they are I'm pretty sure they still doubling the 20,000 or whatever it's counting down and not just the 3000 I should be receiving?

Where should I look? Bonus Unit? Score Motor?

Here I go chasing stuff again. Now I turn the game on with the ball energizing the outhole switch and it makes the score motor run and the swinging target. If I take the pinball out and turn on the machine the score motor runs briefly and comes to a stop?

I'll check Ken.. Yeah I've had good luck with my only EM running smoothly till this latest issue.. I wasn't all that good trouble shooting before and now with the extended time of not messing with switches etc.. I forget..LOL

I can power on without the ball in the out hole and all is fine..I hit the outhole switch with my hand it energizes the Bonus relay and that closes all the NO switches and vice versa

And Yep.. I'm real rusty! The swinging target is not moving right now.. Just the score motor. It has to do with the Double Bonus I would think, that is all I touched to make things worse

OK.. The Bonus Unit won't reset to zero.. That's what was causing the score motor to run..
I reset the Bonus unit to Zero by hand and that gets me back to where I can start a game, put the ball in play, but the Bonus unit won't count down now..
I need new hips, so I can only stand and work on it so long. Sucks!

I have it down to the Bonus unit not resetting now... I can reset it to zero by hand and power on, hit start and play the ball, but it will not reset to zero when I drain the ball. I believe this is where I am at, I had to take a break

Alright.. I'll get it. I hate when I make things worse.. How do I always do that? LOL Before I messsed with it it was just giving you to many points, then all hell broke lose..LOL.. Well sorta

Definitely the Bonus Reset coil not stepping down

I understand ya somewhat HDC.. but the score motor is not running if I set the Bonus Unit to zero and start a game.. I can play a ball normally.. I keeps track of Bonus and score properly, but when I drain the ball the reset coil on the Bonus unit isn't being energized. I now have it to where it will just keep adding points till I shut down the machine, reset the Bonus Unit to zero by hand and start a new game..
So according to the manual, I'm thinking I need to look at a NO switch B on Bonus Relay and M/B switch on Double Bonus Relay.. Or the manual says that it also has to do with few of the score motor switches, and I hate that thing

Edit: Also if I don't reset the Bonus Unit by hand and just turn the machine back on.. It is then that the score motor runs as soon as I power on and hit the start button.

Thanks SteveFury.. I added a few things to my above post and edited my mistake about the score motor.. It only runs when I hit Start if I don't reset Bonus Unit to zero

I felt the score reel relays, they don't seem to be getting hot. I'll check again when my flashlight battery charges..

Where I'm at now is
1. I power on the machine and hit start button and the score reels reset back to showing all zeros.
2. The score motor runs and one of the relays in the back box are pulsing with the rotation of the score motor.. Not sure which one it is, all my labels are long gone back there and wiring is faded.?
3.. It does this until I manually trigger the Bonus unit reset coil.. Just one time
4. I can now play and score points till I drain ball (hit outhole) then the score never stops collecting till I power off the machine.

Here's an example of what's going on
"

"

Yeah, that's the how the problem originally started.. I get too much bonus for some reason

Also, my side bumpers alternate between 20 pts and 50 pts , so hit them twice you get 70 pts 3 times 120, 4 times 140 and so forth..lol

The Bonus showing a 1000 and then scoring 4000 is what gets me?

20 (from hitting the side bumper) is all that shows on the score reels till I drain the ball..the 1000 Bonus lite is lit on the PF ( red rocket) as soon as I start the game... The 4000 is scored when I drain to outhole.. That's how I ended up with 4020
A side note:
The side bumper areas alternate between scoring 20 and 50 if I continuously trigger that switch

1000 pt relay is backbox right? I need to make some labels this time when I'm back there.. All my wires are too faded and all labels are missing, so i don't know which is which.. I'm sure I can figure it out, I just felt like complaining.

edit: Also HDC.. I think the alternating 20 pts and 50 pts is too consistent to be abnormal.. Like I said it alternates back and forth.. say I end a game by scoring 50 pts off the side bumper.. Next time I hit it I score 20, even after starting a new game, if that makes any sense?

Yep.. 20...50...20 and so forth.. maybe it's one of the upgrades to score 50 every time on Space Mission..LOL

5

I'm back.. Never got around to fixing this problem. This weather is killing my hips.

I did look at it again today and noticed something. I hope this comes out to where you all can follow me?

As I said in earlier post, I can tap the side bumper and score an alternating score of 20 and 50 points ( be it right or wrong?)

I also noticed that if I do the exact same thing I did in the video the Bonus I collect alternates too.. So say I tap the side I get points ( ignore how many for this part) and I drain the ball.... It alternates between giving the 1000 and 5000 Bonus points..?

drain ball #1 score = 1000
drain ball #2 score = 6000
drain ball #3 score = 7000
drain ball #4 score = 12,000
drain ball #5 score = 13,000

I checked 5A on the score motor.. wires look to be fine and the contacts are closed till I rotated the score motor and the cam( I think it's called) allows the switch to open...

The way it alternates between 1000 and 5000 is confusing but almost to consistent to be a short... right? I'm guessing here..

Here's something else.....

Say I light the spinner to where it gives you a 1000 points... I turn the machine off and start a new game.. Score reels reset and ball goes back to Ball 1 lit, all looks normal but the 1000 lite for the spinner is still lit...
OK.. so I hit the spinner once while lit and it gives me 1000 pts .. drain the ball gives me 1000 pts..( end ball 1 score = 2000) Ball 2 pops put and 1000 light on the spinner is still lit... hit it gives me 1000 pts drain it and it gives me 1000 pts.. ( end ball 2 score = 4000 )

I won't type it all out but if I do a 5 ball game I end up with 10,000 pts this way.

If I hit those side bumpers on every ball, the drain bonus will alternate between 1000 and 5000

I'm confused on why the 1000 lite for the spinner stays lite after a game has ended and a new game is started? This is my only EM, are the bonuses Progressive? Haha I have no clue.

Yes it is, I'll look at that next... I've replaced it once and tried to buy two and Steve from Pinball Resource refused to sell me two of them. He said they are hard to come by and I guess he thought I was being greedy.. Watch mine will be broken again and I won't be able to get one...Haha .. Just my luck

Looks like the actuator that is hooked to the plate just slipped to the wrong side of the gear.. I placed it on top of the gear I guess that is how it goes.. Been a few years since I replaced it.. It looks to be activating the match unit now, But I still have the problem of too much bonus being scored. I'll have to put the PF back down and play a game to make sure.

Thank You Steve for a great post !.. I bought the machine as a project and had it working properly for well over a year or so.. I really don't play it, I bought it for my 77 year old Dad. He has played it almost daily for the last year. I'm not sure how long this has been an issue? I just know that the frequency of me having to put games on the machine for him had reduced.( I don't have it set up for free play. I just open the coin door and manually put them on) I see why now, it's easier to win when it scores 5x your Bonus...LOL
I'll try and look into the areas you suggested. Again Thanks !

Bill

I still haven't had a chance to get under the PF yet tonight. I just find it funny on the 50 point switches.. They alternate between 20 and 50 so say I hit the side switch 4 times I would accumulate 140 pts... 6 times 210 and so forth. It's almost to perfect to be wrong? I would think if I had a stuck switch it would be one or the other every time.
Not second guessing anyone here, just making sure everyone knows what I am experiencing.. I guess I could do another video and show some more things I think aren't right..LOL

I checked the 50 point relay and 5000 pt relay tonight.. They both looked to be gaped correctly.. The 50 pulses like it should when I hit side rails. The 5000 relay pulses when I hit the swinging target, but it doesn't pulse at all when the bonus is being counted down. I think all is good there too, the manual says it's pulsed by the swinging target unit

It actually alternates between 20 and 5o pts.. without ever repeating ..It alternates 20,50,20,50,20 = 160 pts

Could the match unit have anything to do with scoring too much bonus? I'm certain that the little spring is broken. The nylon ratchet that rotates the cam(gear) of the contact wheels keeps slipping off top and goes behind it. I know this alternates some things but not sure if it has anything to do with the way the bonus is collected?

Thanks again Steve.. I think I might do a video of the Bonus Unit stepping down to see what you think.. I have a hard time trying to watch all these relays and trying to remember the sequence of what I watched.. It makes my head hurt as much as my hips..haha..

Again thanks for the detailed help,
Bill

Here is a scan of the 50 pt relay circuit from my SO schematic.. Does anyone see anything that will make the score alternate? Also the switches within the red are from top to bottom read R. Top Stand Up Switch, L & R Stand Up Switch, 50 Pt Relay ( unreadable in this scan) 5000 Relayscan0008_50_pt_relay.jpg

More Alternating Scores... Haha.. on Liberal it alternates scores of 500 and 200.. on Conservative... 300 and 100

My Change relay is definitely not working right.. Manual says it is energized by the Match Unit alternator switch.. Which the nylon actuator on the metal plate will not stay on top of the cam(gear).. Manual says Change Relay
M/B - Opens in circuit to 100 pt relay and closes to swinging target relay

M/B - Opens to right Bottom rollover lite ( Special) and closes to Left B. Rollover lite ( Special)

M/B - In circuit to 1000 point relay, or credit unit Step Up or Extra Ball relay

M/B - In circuit to 1000 point relay or credit unit step up or extra ball relay

NO - to left and right rollover lites

Nope I'm the only one that opens it up and I never lift the PF.. I just manually put credits on it through switches on the coin door.. I'll keep looking

I replaced the Match Unit parts and added a missing washer.. Like Stevefury said it didn't do anything about my Bonus problems..
Here's why I was confused. If you look at these two pics, on the 5000 pt relay circuit.. The way I read it I'm suppose to look at Cam 5 Sw. C, which I highlighted on the other pic which shows my score motor schematic.. This sw is labeled " Pulses Match Unit"

Am I reading that right?

I'm going backwards also.. Now I have it to where the side switches only give me 10 pts everytime.. 5000relay.jpg score_motor_5c.jpg

50pt_cam.jpg Also what is the blue arrow on my 50 pt relay circuit? Where is cam "0" on the score motor schematic?
Like I said in my above post.. I have it where the side rails only give me 10 pts now instead of 50 pts like it should..?

This is the full operation sequence of my related Space Mission circuits:
50 point switches (Top schematics with red switch letters):
A: The ball strikes any one of these 50 point PF switches. This completes the circuit for the 50 point relay.
(Another switch not shown on the 50pt relay starts the Score motor rotating)
B: This switch is on the 50pt relay and holds the 50pt relay on.
C: This switch is on the motor and the cam notch which operates it is on the very end of the cycle.
So the ball hits A, the 50pt relay is held in with B until the motor is almost done rotating its single cycle... that's when C opens to turn the 50pt relay back off.
D: This switch is on the 50pt relay. Since the 50pt relay is pulled in, this switch is closed.
E: This motor cam provides 5 pulses per cycle.
Since we already know the 50pt relay is pulled in for a full motor cycle, the 10pt relay is pulsed 5 times by E before the 50pt relay is dropped off again by C. Your video shows it's only pulsed by the 1st and last motor cams. It's missing the middle 3 cam pulses for what ever reason.

What pulses the 50 pt relay 5 times? Cam 5 Sw A is a NC switch and the cam only has 2 notches that allow it to open?
PS.. ignore the arrows I used it for an earlier post..
score_motor_5c.jpg

Thanks again , I'm still an amateur at reading the schematics.. I see now the part where the circuit continues at C-7 of the schematic..
What does the cam switch in the my blue circle above mean?

OK I see where my 5-A says the same thing like you said "50 PT etc" ... I just didn't understand the "0" before it? I didn't know if that was for "Zero" or "Open" or what?

One problem down and one to go.. The stand up switches now score 50 pts every time as they should.. It's the cam "nubs" that stick up on the Impulse cam.. There are 10 of them divided in two sets of 5..The score motor rotates them a half revolution at a time and is suppose to pulse one set of 5 per half revolution.. Looks like one set is warn more then the other so it was not activating the switch Impulse "A" every time. This was giving me the alternating scores from the side rails...

What screwed me up was my Impulse A on the score motor schematic is labeled to "Pulse Credit Unit S.U."
This shows the Impulse "A"
messup2.jpg

This is the 10 point relay circuit
messup.jpg

Here's where it shows the Impulse "A" Steps Up the Credit Unit
messup3.jpg

Am I not reading something right? ^^^

Thanks SteveFury, I'm still getting the other bonus problem, but at least that one is fixed. Sorry to drive you guys crazy with all the repeated post I've mad, but I was going crazy..

Sure would be nice if the score motor layout showed everything the switches do.. I guess I should have just trusted the schematic as it showed the cam and switch in the circuit there.. Anyways it had me confused.

Again thanks for the patience and I'll keep looking at how to fix the Bonus problem.. What kinda stinks is I didn't even know the stand up side switches weren't scoring correctly...LOL I assumed them alternating scoring between 50 and 20 was normal it was so consistent..

Got It ! Sorry it took me a month to find some switches out of whack. I believe getting them set correctly is somewhat a skill in itself . Hey at least I understand the schematic a little better.. Thanks for all the illustrations SteveFury.
Thanks! Bill in Indiana