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(Topic ID: 123789)

WMS Road Kings Problems


By troxel

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Breaking_Dad
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#1 5 years ago

I am more of an arcade guy, but picked up a Road King the other day that is having a few problems. Just looked at it quickly and found the following problems.

1. Start a game, and 2 balls will shoot out. I imagine this is a switch adjustment in the trough?
2. Right flipper (FL-17636) does not work at all. It's completely dead. This is different than the other one and took some photos of both. Any suggestions on where to start?
3. Top and right pop bumper not working during game play, but will fire in test mode.

Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated!

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#2 5 years ago
Quoted from troxel:

I am more of an arcade guy, but picked up a Road King the other day that is having a few problems. Just looked at it quickly and found the following problems.
1. Start a game, and 2 balls will shoot out. I imagine this is a switch adjustment in the trough?

Start by running a switch test (pg 27 in the manual.
Manual here: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1970

Quoted from troxel:

2. Right flipper (FL-17636) does not work at all. It's completely dead. This is different than the other one and took some photos of both. Any suggestions on where to start?

3h. When things don't work: Problems with Flippers
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index1.html

Quoted from troxel:

3. Top and right pop bumper not working during game play, but will fire in test mode.
Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated!

Since it fires in test mode this is good, it shows the coil, firing circuitry are all good. Since they are not working in gameplay, this will usually be a switch problem
See"If a Bad Switch is Found.
If a switch does not work, check these things:" in section 3k. When things don't work: the Switch Matrix
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index2.htm

#3 5 years ago

The end of stroke switch appears suspect also.
The contacts are burned, dont appear to be touching.
Also, the white nylon spacer between the sets of contacts is missing on one, it activates the second set of contacts.

#4 5 years ago

Thanks for all the help so far. I had a chance to look at this a little bit more today and still had a few questions.

#1. The two trough switches should be closed when the balls are in the trough and open when not in the trough? If that's true, then they show up in the switch test as closed.

#2. Noticed that the coil only had one diode connecting the outside lugs. I installed 2 new diodes and went through the guide. Is there only one fuse for both flippers and that's on the flipper power supply board? If so, it checked good. I cleaned the EOS switch and the button switch. Tested for 50 volts and got 71 Vdc. Coil did fire when grounded to the middle lug. Tested ohms and got 4.1 on one side and 360 on the other. This seems out of spec from the guide, but not sure what it should be since it's a FL-17636. Any other suggestions?

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from troxel:

Thanks for all the help so far. I had a chance to look at this a little bit more today and still had a few questions.
#1. The two trough switches should be closed when the balls are in the trough and open when not in the trough? If that's true, then they show up in the switch test as closed.

Do you mean they show up as closed when the balls are not in the trough? Remove the apron (cover) and check is switch individually for positive activation with a ball and make sure each goes off when ball is removed. I'm just not clear on the second part of your statement.

Quoted from troxel:

#2. Noticed that the coil only had one diode connecting the outside lugs. I installed 2 new diodes and went through the guide. Is there only one fuse for both flippers and that's on the flipper power supply board? If so, it checked good. I cleaned the EOS switch and the button switch. Tested for 50 volts and got 71 Vdc. Coil did fire when grounded to the middle lug. Tested ohms and got 4.1 on one side and 360 on the other. This seems out of spec from the guide, but not sure what it should be since it's a FL-17636. Any other suggestions?

Don't worry about the coil measurement at this point. You know it fires manually and you can't test it accurately in circuit anyways, so move on to troubleshooting why it doesn't fire with the cab switch.

OK, good - coil is getting power and you grounded it so it works. Now you need to find out where you are losing the other half of the circuit.

Flipper pwr supply(+)-----> Flipper coil ----->Flipper switch----->Flipper enable relay (CPU)----- Ground (-)
^you know this part is good.................^

Start by measuring for DCV at either contact of the flipper cabinet switch. On one side you should have your 71VDC. And...If you ground the 71VDC with a jumper here the coil should fire as well.

From there, you would need to check continuity back to the CPU and flipper enable relay. I just measure from the ground side of the flipper switch to ground when in game play mode. If this resistance is high, then you would measure continuity from the cabinet button back to the MPU connector 1J19 pins 1 or 2 (for left or right flipper). Problems with 1J19/1J20 connector and pins are common. If it is making it to the connector and all is well with that, then the flipper enable relay and its components can be suspect. But check all the preceding first before we get into that.

#6 5 years ago

I have 71 Vdc on one side of the flipper switch. Tried grounding the switch to see if the coil would fire, and it did NOT fire. There was a little spark, but the coil didn't fire. I did have continuity from the flipper switch (ground) back to ground.

I appreciate the help on this. What's the next step?

#7 5 years ago

IMO it sounds like your switch may need to be cleaned. If it is really pitted or a contact is missing it will need to be replaced. Do you have a flexstone file?...perhaps you can post a close picture of the switch.

#8 5 years ago

I think you are right. It looks like the contact is missing on the right switch. I did test for continuity when the switched closed, and it does beep.

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#9 5 years ago

Yes it very well may beep, but a faulty contact like that won't conduct the high current required to operate the flipper. I think if you replace that switch that will solve the problem.

#10 5 years ago

Thanks for the help on this. I will order the switch and see if I can get these other problems figured out as I wait for the part to come in.

2 weeks later
#11 5 years ago

Finally had a chance to install the flipper switch and the flipper still doesn't work. I did noticed that if I pull the flipper up, it will stay up until I release the button. Any other thoughts or items to check?

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from troxel:

Finally had a chance to install the flipper switch and the flipper still doesn't work. I did noticed that if I pull the flipper up, it will stay up until I release the button. Any other thoughts or items to check?

hmmm. So the flipper stays up while holding the button? That indicates power is getting to the flipper hold coil and it is working, however not being able to move the flipper up without assistance points in the direction of the high power side of the coil as having a problem. Most of the time, this is EOS related, the coil itself, or wiring.

#13 5 years ago

About the pop-bumpers: I think firing the coils in testmode is using different 'logic' from firing them in gameplay (unlike later games). You do know wiring to the coils from the PCB and the coils and fuses are ok, but you'll have to look at the switch that activates the coils via (there're 2 switches at each Road Kings pop-bumpers! 1 for the switch matrix when the coil fires and one for driving the coil).

See below:

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I'm not sure the above schematics from the manual is accurate though.... compared with the one below, which seems to make more sense to me:

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Maybe a bit hard to understand (I know I haven't worked with that part of the pcb for quite some time and I'm not sure....). Easier: I'd start by checking if the pop-bumper-switches close if the ball hits the popbumper-skirt.

#14 5 years ago

That's correct sven...the earlier System 11s allow direct switch control. The section of the circuit below shows that the PIA (logic, test mode) can fire the circuit <OR> the playfield switch physically located at the special solenoid (pop or sling).

Your schematic on the bottom shows the output firing transistor section, which has been determined in this case to be functional, since the pop fires in test mode. The troubleshooting should be focused on the playfield switch or it's associated wiring, connectors etc... as the probable cause for the failure.

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#15 5 years ago

The EOS is pretty pitted and beat up. I will order a new one and replace. The flipper looks like it was hacked in and wondering if someone can take a look at the photos and see if anything looks out of the ordinary.

Does the diode need to go from wire to switch. Looks horrible the way it's mounted.

Thanks again.

(I will tackle the other problems once I get the flipper working)

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#16 5 years ago

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OP, here's a couple of pics of what mine looks like. The white/brown wires are attached to the non banded side of the diode and they are both soldered to an isolated lug on the switch stack just to anchor them rather than floating in the air like yours. The banded side of the diode is then attached to one side of the lane change switch.
The green/blue wires are attached to the other side of the lane change switch.

Yours should still work if wired correctly even with the "floating" diode

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For the flipper the blue/brown wire is connected to the right hand lug in the picture. A wire also runs from this lug to one side of the EOS switch. A wire from the other side of the EOS switch is connected to the centre lug. (this is the only wire connected to the centre lug) The blue/yellow wire is connected to the left hand lug.

Hope this helps.

Andy

2 weeks later
#17 5 years ago

Thanks, Andy_B. The photos really helped. I replaced the EOS and lane change switch and cleaned up some of the wiring, and the flipper is now working. Do I need to install a 2.2 uf cap on the EOS?

I also got the pop bumpers working. They just needed cleaned and adjusted. The two ball kickout was an easy fix, because I had 3 balls installed instead of two.

I have a couple more problems now. The left and bottom pop bumpers won't light. I replaced a new bulb and still no light. What's the best way to check if it's the socket, wiring, or something else?

I am missing the top-left segment on the credit display. Is this bad resistor? What's the best way to trouble shoot this, too?

Thanks again. Excited to finally play a few games on this.

#18 5 years ago

I got the lights working on the pop bumper tonight. The connector to the PS is flaky. I will need to replace it when I have time.

The same segment is missing on the first two numbers on the credit/match display. It's the top left (vertical) segment. Is there a resistor that I can check or something else?

2 weeks later
#19 5 years ago

Still no luck with the missing segments. Any advice?

Also, what is the detour R exit switch? Can't find it in the manual. This flashes when the game starts.

#20 5 years ago

Figured out why I couldn't spot the detour R Exit...my game is missing it. Can someone take a top and bottom photo of the switch?

#21 5 years ago

If nobody does it sooner I can tomorrow some time.....I'm literally in bed (work soon) or I would right now.........Joey

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