(Topic ID: 250832)

WMS Pit Stop - stuck trying to reset


By ArcadeDanger

11 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by ArcadeDanger
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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0Pit-Stop-Work-06 (resized).jpg
0Pit-Stop-Work-05 (resized).jpg

#1 11 months ago

I replaced the cam rollovers (they were gouged with a channel) on the score motor switches. I had some problems with the coin switches being stuck, I think I resolved those. I also jumped the replay switch as per pinrepair.com to put it on freeplay.

Powers on fine, GI works. Current symptom: when hitting the button to start a game, it resets everything (scores, advance positions, etc) as expected - however, motor stays running, and the decrement coil on the replay unit keeps clicking away (it's at 0 as recommended by pinrepair.com). It lights up a 1 player game, then a 2 player game. Does not eject ball into play, but flippers, rollovers, pop bumpers all work, as well as scoring.

I checked gaps and positions for the switch stacks on the score motor since I had messed with it. There were a few off, but the weird thing is I found some of them on, no matter if switch was contacting or not. Specifically, Switch C on Index Cam tests continuous no matter what position the cam was in (jumped upstream?). The other that seems stuck on is switch A on cam 3. Is this normal?

What can I try next? Really appreciate the help.

#2 11 months ago

Take your replay jumper off and see if your problem goes away.

#3 11 months ago
Quoted from ArcadeDanger:

however, motor stays running, and the decrement coil on the replay unit keeps clicking away (it's at 0 as recommended by pinrepair.com).

Check the Replay stepper switches. And do you have a high-quality schematic scan? The one on IPDB is a disaster.

Check out Clay's guide on stepper units: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

#4 11 months ago
Quoted from WOLF:

Take your replay jumper off and see if your problem goes away.

Easy enough, I'll try this and report back.

#5 11 months ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Check the Replay stepper switches. And do you have a high-quality schematic scan? The one on IPDB is a disaster.
Check out Clay's guide on stepper units: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

I have an original schematic, I was using it to determine normally closed vs normally open on the score motor switch stacks (I think I can get it scanned if that'd be useful).

The replay stepper was disabled previously, when I replaced the backglass I removed whatever hack was there ("that doesn't look right"). Both coils seem to have worked (step up on coin in and down on game start) but I'll recheck them given your advice.

#6 11 months ago
Quoted from ArcadeDanger:

I have an original schematic, I was using it to determine normally closed vs normally open on the score motor switch stacks (I think I can get it scanned if that'd be useful).

Staples does them for $2. Be sure to have them save as a PDF.

#7 11 months ago

Hi ArcadeDanger +
see the JPG - I believe the (encircled green) "Score-Motor-Switch 5A" (is also "my red-4") does faulty not open - means is faulty always closed.
You press "my red-1" to start a game, "red-2 and red-3"Pull-in - stay pulling until withing a turn of 180 degrees "red-4" cuts Self-Hold-Current.
The pulling-in of the Coin-Relay means "red-5, red-6, red-7, red-8": The Reset-Relay is called to do its duty --- but the relay has its own Self-Hold-Circuitry (red-8) - the Reset-Relay in Your Pit Stop may let go as it should - BUT the constantly pulling of Coin-Relay has the effect: Switch "red-9" makes the Score-Motor (red-10) to run and run.
Please inspect "Score-Motor-Switch 5A" - does the switch truely open when the switchstack actuates ? Greetings Rolf
0Pit-Stop-Work-05 (resized).jpg

#8 11 months ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Please inspect "Score-Motor-Switch 5A" - does the switch truely open when the switchstack actuates ? Greetings Rolf

This is an amazing thing about EM Pins, that something you'd think is not related (3 plays for 25 cent) would impact the rest of the sequence. I went through the other stacks but not 5A; I'll check this first before unwinding the jumper on the replay unit. Thanks for the suggestion.

#9 11 months ago

I adjusted the switch stacks for cam 4 and 5, and now the game is resetting! Thank you @rolf_martin_062 !!!

Next problem; ball is not ejecting automatically; the score motor run continuously. If I shift the ball out of the hole the game works, but as soon as I drain again the score motor runs and doesn't eject the ball; sometimes the ball count will increase without ejecting the ball and eventually game over (3 balls per game).

I checked gaps on score motor cam switches 2a and 3a since they're related to pulsing ball count. But that didn't solve it.

What should I check next?

#10 11 months ago

Ok, figured out this glitch too. Cam switch 3A pulses the ball release coil, this was stuck open and not triggering the release coil to kick the ball out. I have a minor issue where the ball isn't climbing out but I think that's just leveling...

#11 11 months ago

The ball not getting released is not due to the slope of the machine like I thought - its like the ball release coil isn't triggered hard/long enough for the ball to clear the trough.

#12 11 months ago

I upped the gap a bit on cam 3 switch A, it was triggering too soon killing off the impulse to the release coil.

Getting there! Now I have to figure out why Advance 5 on player 2 isn't always getting triggered completely - it sometimes does it, sometimes skips a step or two.

#13 11 months ago

Gap adjusted on impulse cam switch B. Player two seems to be doing 5 advance ok now.

Next problem... *sigh* The Same Player Shoots Again doesn't reset when ball drains.

#14 11 months ago

Latest update, the Advance 5 on player 2 isn't working consistently. It sometimes does 5 and many times a lot less.

Still have the "Same player shoots again' not resetting, so if you manage to get into this mode you have an infinite life game.

#15 11 months ago

Hi ArcadeDanger
I pic the "stuck Same Player Shoots Again". In the schematics - right to the drawing of the Score-Motor-Switches there is a list "Relay-Coil Location" (and another "Stepper etc, non-relay Coil Location") --- I look for "Same Player ..." and I find "Extraball-Relay (COIL) 14F" --- so the JPG shows that area and more as we must follow all wires that end in the schematics at COIL (I squeezed a bit the schematics part).

The theory is a bit complex - lets first try to fix the fault. Plug-in, toggle-on --- lift the playfield - watch the Ball-Index-Relay in the cabinet - start a new game --- the Ball-Index-Relay shall be non pulling. By hand make 100 points on the playfield - the Ball-Index-Relay must pull-in and stay pulling --- then simulate loosing the ball, watch the Ball-Index-Relay: It must be made non-pulling when stepping on the player / ball, kicking out the new ball --- IN YOUR PIN: Does the Ball-Index-Relay quits pulling ? (when the pin steps on player / ball) --- If "Yes": Write about, if "No": You must investigate at "my red question marks".
The theory is a bit complex - we may have to study more of the JPG. It is getting late here in Switzerland, this is my last post for today - till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

0Pit-Stop-Work-06 (resized).jpg
#16 11 months ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi ArcadeDanger
Plug-in, toggle-on --- lift the playfield - watch the Ball-Index-Relay in the cabinet - start a new game --- the Ball-Index-Relay shall be non pulling. By hand make 100 points on the playfield - the Ball-Index-Relay must pull-in and stay pulling --- then simulate loosing the ball, watch the Ball-Index-Relay: It must be made non-pulling when stepping on the player / ball, kicking out the new ball --- IN YOUR PIN: Does the Ball-Index-Relay quits pulling ? (when the pin steps on player / ball) --- If "Yes": Write about, if "No": You must investigate at "my red question marks".

Thank you for explaining this. It turns out that Ball-Index-Relay did not 'quit pulling' as you put it, I looked into the question mark areas, but did not see anything out of place. I went to the manual, looked at the switches connected to the Outhole-Relay. Switch B in that stack pulses the Ball Release Coil through Cam Switch 3A, and since I had so much problem with the cam switches after replacing the nylon cam followers, I figured I should check again. The top switch of 3A never became open; I adjusted the leaf to allow this, and now the Ball-Index-Relay releases when the 100pts rollover is triggered, makes the Same Player Shoots Again light reset.

It seems that this also helped the Advance 5 for player 2, but I'll confirm that over the next few plays.

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

It is getting late here in Switzerland, this is my last post for today - till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

@rolf_martin_062 thank you for your assistance from across the pond. Very happy to have Pit Stop playable again!

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